ask_use24 misstree why so many pentacles in jewelry? association? 030914 ... missgtee /me has been drinking spirtus, a polish grina andolgohol, which nake everclear look liek vodka prsfdon typos 030914 ... lc All kinds of corn! 030914 ... User24 two pentacles, two reasons: firstly, I was briefly a satanist, and although I can now look back and identify it as a wrong turn, it introduced me to mysticism (sp?) and the other worlds, at a time when my own was falling apart, I like to reflect on it as a personal symbol of strength and power, and as a reminder of my past (ask more if you want, I talk freely) secondly, I now consider myself a pagan in spirit, if not in practice; I like to take days off around samhain and beltaine, and feel that it is very important to be attuned to nature's force and immense wisdom. 030914 ... User24 for those wondering if my name is really 'use24', see also: ask_user24 030916 ... misstree which was the original typo that made me spew the stream of them in apology. polish grain alcohol is a dangerous thing, folks. i am coming back to this, i've just been stalling in writing anything that requries me to use my brain until i get more than 4 1/2 hours of sleep. may be a bit yet. 030916 ... misstree likes to poke at brains with pointy stick so, as i've mentioned elsewhere, i know next to nothing about satanism; care to give a vague outline? (wish i could be more specific, but this is me and sleep dep going to the mat, and one of us ain't walkin' away) 030916 ... User24 to be honest, I can't really tell you, for if I did, I would be killed. oh, ok then. (from http://www.coscentral.com) The Nine Satanic Statements I Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence! II Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams! III Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit! IV Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates! V Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek! VI Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires! VII Satan represents man as just another animal; sometimes better, more often worse than those who walk on all fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all! VIII Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification! IX Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years! ------- as you can probally already tell, lavey was a little bit up his own arse (sorry, mate, but it's true, and you know it (he's dead)) again, copied from above website: The Nine Satanic Sins 1) Stupidity--The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid. 2) Pretentiousness--Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn't applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone's made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not. 3) Solipsism--can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses, and sensibilities onto someone else who is probably far less attuned that you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy, and respect that you naturally give them. They won't. Instead Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of "Do unto others as they do onto you." It's work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian viewpoint) we are from that point. 4) Self-Deceit--It's in the Nine Satanic Statement but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered is when it is fun, and with awareness. But then, it's not self-deceit! 5) Herd Conformity--That's obvious from a Satanic stance. It's all right to conform to a person's wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of many. 6) Lack of Perspective--Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, everyday. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit the things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. So not be swayed herd constraints--know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world. 7) Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxy's--Be aware that this one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something as "new" and "different", when in reality it's something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the "creator" and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society. 8) Counterproductive Pride--The first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bath water. The rule of Satanism is if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you've painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow," then do it 9) Lack of Aesthetics--This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. It is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off it most of the tome so it is discouraged in a consumer society, but is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for magical effectiveness. It's not what's supposed to be pleasing--it's what is. Aesthetics is a highly personal thing, reflective of one's own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied. -------- there is more, but you can check out the site. I didn't fully believe in it all, but there are some good morals there, not good morals for a perfect world, but good morals for the detestable world we are unfotunate enough to live in today; sometimes, in fact, most of the time, it is right to be selfish, in this world, turning the other cheek gets you two black eyes and a lasting reputation for being weak. as for devil-worship, I wouldn't know about that, lavey's satanism wasn't really anything to do with the forces of evil, it was more a backlash against the church and attitudes of the time (1960s) if you want dark beasties, better check out Crowley. satanic magic and worship is all about harnessing the power within you, the fact that you do not need a deity or angel to help you is it's raison d'etre, it serves itself, making few, and carefully chosen, exceptions. (you can see why it appealed at a time when I was failing at school, and was constantly being told I had so much potential that I'm wasting yada yada) :) 030916 ... misstree okay, now i know which camp the satanists i haven't patted on the head and sent off with a cookie were coming from... i agree, a lot of good stuff there, a lot of threads i see among many of the miscellaneous religions these days--bits of objectivism here, chaos magic there, and most have the "you are only a sheep if you let yourself, be, so for (insert particulars here)'s sake, don't let yourself be. i bit more mercenary than i try to be, but that's the stinky hippy for you. pride, nonconformity, and indulgence. hmm. good thing eris has me by the balls. (kidding! kidding! ow! quit slapping me, Mom!) so, where did you evolve from there? you mentioned miscellaneous paganism as well--what specific influences did you ride between there and here? 030916 ... User24 funny you should mention chaos magic, actually.. I never had any results with satanic magic, so from there (probally via a few 'underground' websites that dealt with everything I loved; hacking, viri, drugs, bombs and extreme religion) I found my way to Peter Carroll, chaos magic, with a bit of quantum physics thrown in for fun [ever read Liber Kaos? ;)] I guess I needed more framework, so, while I understood that my workings only worked becuase of the power within me, I found something more with Chaos, I could see it around me, I could watch strange attractors with a sense of glee; that I actually knew (the basics of) how they worked, from there, I've taken a step down, I now would describe myself as having everything from Satanism to muster up against my adversaries, the pure hate, blind anger, and sheer destructiveness (you can get carried away with the weight of power, knowing that it doesn't matter what the Gods think of you, they only exist in your mind yada yada) I have the logical viewpoint of chaotic cause and effect, that allows me to deal with things in a nice and simple way; X happened because it was inevitable, the world was just right, at that moment in time, and that's why X happened (you can get carried away with the inevitability of the situtation; it doesn't matter what I do if it's all set out before me, right?) I have wisdom of philosophy and buddha behind me, recieving all knowledge gratefully, and discerning true from lies, and finally, I have Paganism, keeping me calm and in tune with the only truth; that trees will grow, and cliffs will crumble. 030916 ... misstree very nice. i don't come across enough people these days who do a thorough patch job, taking the pieces from things that they're good for. example, i wouldn't try to dictate my morality with chaosmagic--it would take a lot of work just to dig out the proper structures, i think, and then you could go twenty different ways with it. i'm personally a blend of discordian, chaote, and bokononist, with some epicurianism and optimism frosted on top. unfortunately haven't read liber kaos, the local bookstore closed down before i could snag it; first formal introduction was liber null/psychonaut, followed by quantum psychology by RAW (also first exposure to him, between that and the rest of life my brain was *seriously* bent). quantum psychology was/is an incredible study on the relationship of the principles of quantum physics to mental workings to perception & its relation to "reality"--higly recommended, if you haven't yet read it. nod, i distinctly like the cause-effect directness of chaosmagic (apologies for continually slurring the two words, it's a side effect of me email addie), it's a very good structure to hang the rest of the useful bits off of, keeps the foma from melting in the sun. i've also had a very interesting time using it as a comparison point for a lot of the other mysicisms, especially those with purposeful workings (prayer, rituals, etc.)--it's the things in common that help define the truer whole, imho. as far as getting carried away with the weight of power... yeah. that's one of the lessons that i learned early and hard, that there is always a bigger fish in the ocean, that there are things that you are just not equipped to fuck with. okay, now 2 questions; how do you think this blend shapes how you approach every day life, and what's your take on what happens after we die? 030916 ... User24 I just have to say that I've never read anything that corresponds so perfectly with my own beliefs as your reply. k, answering this one first because it's easier: what's your take on what happens after we die? very simple, I die and get buried in a degradeable coffin type thing, my body and it's energy are absorbed, back into the earth, thereby, re-incarnating every part of me, and being enviro-friendly, and letting all the parts of the earth that I've borrowed for my short stay here, get back home. 030916 ... User24 how do you think this blend shapes how you approach every day life? I think it makes me a better person, I can use any of the skills I've learnt from one religion/belief set or another to help me from day to day, in any number of situations. Slightly off topic: I have a positive outlook, there's always a little doubt, but overall, I feel like I'm moving upwards, I hope I am (see, there's that doubt again!), my beliefs are strong and true, I know that, they hold me