adultery misstree and ??? ?? i need him again... not yet, but i will... when will i see him again... ::Don't do this to yourself. Let go. That's what you needed to relearn. To let go.:: but i don't want to let go... it was divine, it was overwhelming, it was the best since... ::Since you tore yourself apart, even then, even when you had them next to you. Because you never knew. And you were always longing, always hungry.:: but that's not how it is... it's just that gravity... it's the conduit to divinity, ascention through sensation... ::And you should have ascention available whenever you ask? Child, eat sparingly of the fruit of knowledge, if you glut yourself it will lose its sweetness.:: but... the anger... i understand now where the anger comes from... it's a deficiency, but i can't form the conduit myself... such a hated irony... ::The anger doesn't come from its absence, it comes from need. You haven't let go of the need, even after such a gift.:: i'm sorry... it's... ::Like a drug?:: sometimes, yes. it makes me crazy for wanting it. it haunts me, it obsesses me, it posesses me. even now, still satiated, i am consumed with where the next crossing point will be. ::There are other ways.:: ........yes. and most more dangerous than the last. there are drugs, real drugs, that will supposedly win you a glimpse... ::And you remember the scents that you caught when you strayed into those lands.:: yes. i know better than to go back. i would never leave. but most of the other physical acts still require another... ::Why not seek another for that purpose, then?:: because it requires greater intimacy and better knowledge of the deeper caves than simple sex. because sex *is* simple, and when it's not, it's glorious, it's a writhing dance, it's feeling through another person. ::And why not by yourself?:: because ascention through sensation is still a dance, an interplay... i don't know, but a closed ciruit like that shuts off life. it keeps it an ouroboros when it should be a spiral. grounded. ::Where does that leave you?:: wanting... of course wanting... ::Wanting what?:: a taste of the divine... ::Remember the difference.:: 031014 ... miss and tree *ahem* ::Yes?:: so, ascention outside of self is merging with another? ::I never said that. Nor did you.:: oh. right. drugs, for example... then, it's ascending... it's just ascending outside oneself, isn't it? ::...:: so... sharing of oneself with a water brother... someone once told me it was like two pools of liquid touching, being more than you are alone. ::*smile*:: i remember also that once two pools touch, they always carry a piece of the other. ::Never forget.:: but that's still reliant on another person. that seems so counterintuitive, that something so personal should need sharing to achieve. ::What intuition is that?:: that ascention and evolution, touching or drinking the divine, is a very private thing, it's different for everyone, it's something you have to do on your own. ::Whatever gave you that idea? Why do you think there's so many of you, such a colorful variety?:: you're kidding, right? ::Don't make me angry.:: i'm sorry, i just find it hard to believe that there is no hope for the solitary, that you have to find some sort of mate or companion to... ::There you go putting words in my mouth again.:: *sigh*... so there is hope for the solitary... and i don't suppose you're going to just tell me what it is... ... ...okay... well, let's look at what we've got. we've got temporary ascention through sensation. favorite of mine, that one. we've got temporary ascention through drugs. i don't see that as the most hopeful path, and i'd rather exclude it entirely if you don't mind... ::There may be things to be learned from it. Forget the destruction, what does it *do*.:: oh... um... it helps... it helps step outside the self... it breaks down "normal" patterns of thought so that new ones can be used, or take its place... oh... that can be done without drugs, can't it? metaprogramming again, but to program your way to the god-force? ::Forging the Self is not a temporary path.:: ...but it does lead to evolution, a more permanent step towards the god-force. why does it always have to be the difficult path with you? ::Would you rather go on a pilgrimage? I hear crossing deserts on foot is making a real comeback these days.:: wiseass. you'll forgive me if i leave the subject of forging oneself to stew for a bit, won't you? ::I've got time.:: um... thanks. 031015 ... ?? ... 031016 ... I like you but dislike you yes, you need to indulge yourself more. That's sexy and will get you far. Eating candy bars is divine. 031017 ... misstree you're missing the difference between "meat and potatoes sex" and transcendence through overwhelming sensation... think sun dancing, whirling dervishes, it's a variation on an age old method... and pleasurable input is not the only type of input i refer to, but i prefer to be more obtuse on its opposite... there are wolves in those woods... if you can enter a trance-like state from eating a candy bar, more power to you, but i still need more intense input if i'm going that route... and sexiness has absolutely nothing to do with it. thus the counterintuition that such a state is most easily achieved when shared; it is a very personal and selfish state. its affect on others matters only as far as finding a suitable partner for such rituals... like me or not, makes me curious but doesn't affect me much otherwise. thanks for the poke for clarification, though. 031017 ... stork daddy is it something adults do? there is only one sun i whirl to 031017 ... misstree hey! wait a minute! i just thought of something... there's been something niggling at me, some element missing, some aspect overlooked... i was ranting the other day about bread and circuses, how life requires something more than circus, because that's just observation... you need interaction, too, because bumping up against other things is how you define the self, by having notself as contrast... and that's what's missing from the sensation ascention, is actual interaction... ::I was wondering when you would remember Play.:: yeah, well, the tattoo's on my back, i don't exactly see it a lot. but that's it, isn't it? ::What's what? And more importantly, what does it mean?:: that's the flaw. that's what's missing from the equation. and what does it mean? oh yeah... ooh... ::Start by looking at what you have.:: okay... lemmie light a cigarette... *exhales a plume of smoke* okay, so i'm going to go back to the tattoo for a minute... there's a lot of different symbols nodded at, some i didn't find until later... Desire has been around but subtle... and Play was part of something ask_kia told me... i agree that they belong on my back, as part of my name... they are the two halves of this, aren't they? ::You're on a roll, keep going.:: um, okay... i'll come back to desire, that's the piece i've been staring at... play... play is part of my nature as much, and indeed is a conduit to a form of the divine... but it's a different form... it's interactive input, where as desire, especially in this sense, is passive input... um... ::So you say that play is also a conduit?:: yes... i've witnessed this in sparkling moments, surfing the energy of a crowd, causing ripples, even just wandering around, but it's always interactive... lessee... its nature... it's not the leaving of the self... it's almost more of just being quieted with the self, um, not secluded but establishing complete connection rather than complete disconnection... again, it's rubbing up against the notme to define the me, it's pouncing on it and rolling around with it, it's joy... wait... desire, the source of the symbol... it was the top of the heirarchy... it was split into joy, attraction, and greed... ::Take a deep breath. Make it contain something worth smoking. And don't let words get the upper hand.:: righton. ... ... joy, joy, joy, that's the fucking root of this, it flutters about and lands on everything, it can ascribe itself to everything... it lands on Love, and that has nothing to do with this and don't you *dare* interrupt me yet, maybe i'll come back to that... joyjoyjoy fuck joy. i officialy banish that word from this conversation. ::Good for you.:: smartass. ::Remember who you're talking to.:: who am i talking to, anyway? it doesn't matter; i don't want to know. where was i? play and desire, interactive and isolationist... ironic that the interactive half is quite easily gained alone, to gain it in the presence of others requires either like mindsets or some sort of removal from the awareness of hivemind... though i suppose that makes sense... how else is one to truly contact the Self, but separation from our eyes reflected in others? and desire, the ultimate separation. ::Irony is a rare delicacy if you can stomach it.:: i'm used to it, and it's not bitter irony, except sometimes in practice... okay, so it does lead to a lot of bitter ironies... but those are mostly involved with desire... okay, let me get back to that and dissect it into three parts, may i? ::Be my guest.:: okay... haven't seriously delved into liber null in a while... but a quick step back from desire... there are six root emotions, three coagula and three salve, three coming together and three going apart. desire is one of these, the coagula opposite fear. it's accompanied by love and sex... let's rub these together and see what is it and notit... ::Getting creative with the vocab?:: i have the power of creation at my fingertips, what i can say limited only by my ability to express... and fuck 'em all, i know what i'm talking about. ::No need to be like that.:: yes there is. if i try to limit my language or censor myself or appeal to other minds, i dilute exactly what i'm doing. this is no lark through the park, dear, this is scraping at the bottom to try to break new ground. no one has had the experiences that i have, so no one has the same mental map, and each will draw their own conclusions, but it doesn't matter in the slightest, because "they" don't exist. ::Do you always get like this when you rant?:: yes. now, the it and notit... sex, love, desire... it makes sense that they're in that order, the returning cycle. they're further broken down into the mercurial, sulfuric, and salt aspects, but mercurial is all we're going to deal with, because after all this is about conact with some form of the divine whatever that means, and that's the end of the spectrum that hits it. still not gonna ask. the mercurial aspects. sex is dissolution. heh. null talks about how the mage should go through a period of chastity and then "take every measure to bring himself to the highest point of excitation." we, or i at least, am talking about excitation as on a molecular level... i was saying to a Friend that it was like a single line of energy, lightning bolts like the piercings... ::Adultery?:: .....let me continue. excitation. regardig dissolution, null also talks about transcendence in very much the same way that i did earlier. funny, i haven't looked at this book in quite a long time, but that's pretty much the core of it in that one little word. yes, i know, be careful with words, but i'm a poet, i have some of them tamed. mercurial aspect of love is rapture. null is useless describing this concept... but here i have leave to use Love in the proper sense, and then the piece fits. the boundless Love that can be felt at some moments, that's what makes me cry at the sight of kindness. it's that heart full to bursting. heh. again the connection with the All. and mercurial aspect of desire is that j-word, which i again will stay away from. null talks about sunsets, religious imagery, nostalgia. petey boy must have led a boring life. while i can get off in that spiritual sense from a fox crossing a bridge in the woods, i also think that things like, i always think of it as the world dancing at my fingertips and then have trouble explaining it further... ::Examples?:: yes... sorry i was snippy earlier, breaking apart some rocks... heh... the suspension show. how's that for circus? i could have shot lightning bolts from my eyes that night. but active is here too, amityville parties. hostess of the apocalypse is not a title earned from sitting in a corner. ::So, how do you define desire? You never got around to that.:: i know, it's a toughie, i was avoiding it. joy, attraction, and greed... attraction the sulfuric and active, our base wants... again null is useless (bitter old fuck), talking about how attraction is mostly implanted by society... or maybe not useless, because of the it/notit dichotomy... in most, desires are "socially induced"... in primitive society, attractions would be to comforts, to reproduction. now desires are seeing the new tarantino movie, a raise at work (ooh, great god Moolah has set up camp here hasn't he, i thought i smelled something foul), it's the mundane definition of desires. salt desire is greed. it is atrophied desire, i always associate this with tentacled things hoarding things in sewers, like that character booker in blanka's vamire game... endless accumulation, inability to satisfy desire. so where does that leave joy? spiritual desire... you would think that it would be desire for Oneness, but that's the goal everywhere, neh? so there's got to be more to define it. drats, a bit stuck... ... ... ...helpful hints at any time... ::Huh? Oh. Um, isn't that for you to figure out?:: you weren't paying attention, were you? ::Start from a different angle.:: *sigh* whatever. okay, let me step back and look at what i've got, now that i'v been painting for a while. i was talking about play and dissolution, bas... oh damn. it wasn't joy i should have been nailing down, why didn't you stop me from... never mind, it wasn't joy i should be nailing, it's play! playplayplay, play play playplay, that's why they called it joy! because it's that floating feeling, the sparklies, the wild grin! touchdown! ::Next time listen to me when I tell you to watch your words.:: next time stay awake while i'm babbling. so, i think i was wrong in assuming it was two pieces, i think it's three. dissolution, play and rapture. ::You win a cookie. But are the wolves gone?:: another time. now i'm armed a bit more properly. g'night. wait... remind me later that passion and poetry and the drive of absence may be worth time... i guess that might be dipping into the solve, but that's fine.. 031018 ... Moondance Kissing Him, I'm sure I felt nothing. Nothing like when I'm with Her. My mind betrayed me. It reminds me. He is an devilangel, sent to tempt me, the unreachable. Would I want Him if I could have Him? She is best for me. We are the same. Parallel, joined. He is best for Her. Identical. A pair. We fit though. And We can't deny it. He fills me in places she's never touched. I open Him in places she's never seen. (And They do the same to Us) Rings on fingers never mean a thing. Ownership is nine tenths, but what about the other piece? What you do, and what you don't do. I cant forget the feel and the smell of him. His voice, the green of his eyes. The way he makes me smile as he's always done before. Not with love, as she does, but with pure joy. I'm glad it's me. I am no threat to them. Their equilibrium. And no one need ever know. I love Him, but not like I love Her. One day, He will cease to be, for me. But I can't think about that right now. Not while his bruises are still on my breasts. Not while my scratches are still on his back. He'll stay away now. Scared I'll become too attached. Until the needing gets too much, or until he forgets how much it was. Do you think She'll know? Know his mouth has been on mine? Know I stroked his face and stared into his eyes? Will it ever happen again? Yes. I always said no before. But yes. It's different, what I have with him. I don't love her any less. I don't miss her any less. I love him differently. Different to the way she loves him. Not forever. Just a few moments here and there for the rest of our lives. Maybe. I do love him. Even though I know he'd run a million miles if he knew. It's not possessive love. He's not mine and never will be, because, really, I don't want him to be. They love each other too much. And I love her too much to let her go. I need her. I really need her. He's nice, but I don't need him. Not like they need each other. It's not adultery is you don't steal, is it? 031119 ... misstree it is still taking what was sworn to be two and making it three. adultery is trespassing, is slinking about among the trees shared by a Unioned Being. but there are paths there, narrow and dangerous but able to be walked without injury. you seem as if you know these paths, which pleases me selfishly, as not many others know of them, and i like to know that others share pieces of me sometimes. but you know the paths and you know the dangers and you have dispelled the first of the maelstrom, and if you can keep to balance-beam path then you will Drink Deep and be well. and if/when you fall, try to roll so bones don't break. (as a side note, a small piece of me got briefly huffy about someone "invading" this page, but i was actually rather surprised it was virgin in the first place, and my conversations have whirled away from here, and i was glad to have read that. so yay!) 031119 ... misstree it's me again, Momma. ::Is that who I am?:: does it matter? i need to think at you for a bit. just mull some stuff over. ::Shouldn't you be talking to the_river?:: no, some of this dips into your realm. whatever that may be. anyhow, i've talked recently about the stalled roller coaster... heh... it's interesting, i had an 8 person orgy for my birthday, and i don't consider that a real tipping. i didn't wake up changed in any way. entertained, hell yeah, but it was still just_another_day. so i know a little better what form the roller coaster is. and i'm not saying that i personally am completely stalled, there is entertainment enough and each day little bits of the mental_map are clarified, but there's no new meat for me to chew on. *mumbles off into space for a bit* hrm... hubby just woke up, telling stories has shifted my mind away from where it was... i'll camp out with vivan and talk more in a bit, neh? ::As you will.:: 031203 ... In_Bloom I have committed adultery by my thoughts I have committed adultery by my words I have committed adultery in my heart Countless times I have considered adultery by my flesh I confess 090801 what's it to you? who go blather from