family Tink should have been acknowledged long ago, methinks. i guess we all take ours for granted. either that or we hate them. (the same way I_hate_you...?) 000419 ... Equin0x Family values. What does family value? 000524 ... stuff while running yesterday i was thinking about that scene at the nadir of the family situation. when my mom was sobbing and breaking down and we all went into the kitchen and group hugged her. the TV was playing "We are Family" on that show Just the Ten of Us. i'm not sure if she started crying because of the song, or the song started after the crying. but i was thinking about how much it hurts me to hear that song (i think i heard it while running) this morning i heard it again and it wasn't so bad. repetition is good. 000603 ... a.f. my lifea 000908 ... syn I think of "family" as in the word. And I see 2 beautiful kids! a mother! a father! grandparents! aunts! uncles! cousins! Even when I think about it I smile. Till I walk out my bedroom door... You know.. I'm the one that cleaned up her blood. Who checked her wrist while she slept to make sure it wouldnt bleed on the sheets... I made sure you were still breathing, you fuck! All you care about is if your boyfriend is still fucking his wife. What about your kids? Courtney? Katy? Me? You expect us to be okay if you die, knowing we weren't good enough for you to live for us? I love you Mom. 001216 ... hoodrat the people i want to be with. Just for today. 010122 ... Jenna Something I did miss. Until today. The shouting and the tension I do not miss. I do not miss the "parenting" of my sister that I, in my age, am no longer subject to. I do not miss talking to my mother, because even the most casual conversations with her give me headaches. I'm only home for the weekend. I'm so happy I don't have to live here. 011025 ... lost my biological parents were drug addicts and would beat me up. i went weeks without food. then i moved with foster parent that adopted me. my adoptive father died and my adoptive mother abuses me with her words every day. this is an extremely short version i dont have much time now maybe someday i will tell you the story. 011025 ... Zoe wow, these are some depressing families. my aunts and cousins are everything to me. my dad left when i was 5 and owes my mom about 30 thousand dollars. i have one older half sister who is awesome (we are close), and 2 step brothers i don't know. my mom means well but she is a religous freak and our values are not the same. she and i fight all the time, but i love her for all of the sacrifices she made for me. 020531 ... bethany wow do we really need to talk about this i don't beleive myself when i tell people about my family, it's more like people i live with who happen to be related to me and there's very few of us, bless your souls we dont breed 020804 ... Liz mum is getting drunk today so hurry up and run away looking for some place to be you're terrified with what you see you hate her for always doing that you lost respect, all that you had you hate it when she is that way so not your mum, so far away don't even dare to look outside your door stays always shut so tight curling up in a corner back in you wish for her to stop that thing cover up your ears so you don't hear the things she says, all that you fear but even though you try to hide the way you shut your eyes so tight there is no chance in getting away cuz mum is getting drunk today 030111 ... poeticmisfit A hope that these hateful, broken and emotionally unstable people could actually stop crying, screaming, hurting and wanting to kill themselves to actally love eachother. Does it really exist? 030111 ... carlita dad's pissed because i didn't want to go to the family reunion on saturday. well, since i'm left out of everything, i didn't find out till thursday night when i ran into him at the bar. needles to say he was wasted. anyway, he ended up freaking out on me at the bar because i already had plans, and frankly, i didn't want to go anyway. "i can't BELIEVE that you won't go. after everything your family has done for you... blah, blah, blah..." and on and on for a good 15 minutes. i ended up just walking away from him because there was nothing i could say that would make it better. well, he stormed out too, and left quite a nasty message on my cell phone, pretty much continuing the blah, blah, blah... i haven't had to deal with him like that in a long time... i thought moving out and having separate lives would make it all better, but i guess all it takes is a few beers and something to get mad about, and we're right back to fighting. i thought it would blow over since i talked to my sister and he wasn't mad that she was going. of course, she told him when he was sober, so there's the difference. but no, i get to work this morning, the first time i've checked email since, and here's an email... bitching at me some more. as if yelling at me face to face and leaving a message on my cell wasn't enough. he just had to make sure i got the point. normally after a fight like this, i keep quiet and let him get over it, which he always eventually does. not this time, after reading the email this morning (and crying about it for a bit) i wrote him back... actually said what was on my mind... we'll see what his response is now. 030707 ... Sam Vaknin The families of the not too distant past were oriented along four axes. These axes were not mutually exclusive. Some overlapped, all of them enhanced each other. People got married because of social pressure and social norms (the Social Dyad), to form a more efficient or synergetic economic unit (the Economic Dyad), in pursuit of psychosexual fulfilment (the Psychosexual Dyad), to secure a long term companionship (the Companionship Dyad). Thus, we can talk about the following four axes: Social-Economic, Emotional, Utilitarian (Rational), Private-Familial. To illustrate how these axes were intertwined, let us consider the Emotional one. People got married because they felt very strongly about living alone. But they felt so also because of social pressures. Some of them subscribed to ideologies which promoted the family as a pillar of society, the basic cell of the national organism, a hothouse in which to breed children to empower the nation and so on. These ideologies of personal contributions to collectives had a strong emotional dimension and provided impetus to a host of behaviour patterns. The emotional investment in today's individualistic-capitalist ideologies is no smaller. Technological developments rendered past thinking obsolete and dysfunctional but did not quench Man's thirst for guidance and a worldview. Still, as technology evolved, it became more and more disruptive in so far as families were concerned. Increased mobility, a decentralization of information sources, the transfers of the traditional functions of the family to societal and private sector establishments, the increased incidence of interactions, safer sex with lesser consequences to those who engage in it – all assisted the disintegration of the traditional family. Consider the trends that affected women, for instance: 1. The emergence of common marital property and of laws for its equal distribution in case of divorce constituted a shift in legal philosophy in most societies. The result was a major (and on going) distribution of wealth and its transfer from men to women. Add to this the disparities in life expectancy between the two genders and the magnitude of the redistribution of economic resources becomes evident. Women are becoming richer at the expense of men because they live long enough to inherit them and because they get a share of the marital property when they divorce them. These "endowments" are larger than their quantifiable contribution to the formation of the wealth thus redistributed. Women still earn less than men, for instance. 2. An increase in economic opportunities. Social and ethical mores changed, technology allowed for increased mobility, wars and economic upheavals led to the forced introduction of women into the labour markets. 3. The result of their enhanced economic clout was a more egalitarian social and legal system. Women's rights were legally as well as informally secured in an evolutionary process, punctuated by minor legal revolutions. This reflected reality – rather than created it. 4. While securing equality in opportunities and fighting for it in other domains of life (representation, taxation, education, property rights and so on) – women still enjoy a discrimination in their favour regarding their obligations. It is rare for a man to complain of sexual harassment or to receive alimony or custody of his children or, in many countries, to be the beneficiary of family related welfare benefits. This discrepancy works in women's favour. 5. The emergence of single parent and non-nuclear families and their social acceptance helped women to shape their lives as they saw fit. Most single parent families are headed by women. Women single parents are severely penalized economically, though (their median income is very low even when adjusted to reflect transfer payments). 6. Thus, gradually, the shaping of future generations will become the exclusive domain of women. Even today, one third of all children in developed countries grow in single parent families with no male figure around to serve as a role model. This exclusivity has tremendous social and economic implications. Gradually and subtly the balance of power will shift as society becomes matriarchal. 7. The invention of the pill and other contraceptives liberated women as far as sex was concerned. The resulting sexual revolution engulfed and affected both sexes but the main beneficiaries were women whose sexuality was in the process of being legitimized. Not under the cloud of unwanted pregnancy any longer – women felt free to engage in sex with multiple partners. 8. In the face of this newfound freedom and the realities of changing sexual conduct, the double standard, which was hitherto applied to the sexual behaviour of men and women – crumbled. The existence of the woman's sexual drive and its legitimacy were widely accepted. The family, therefore, became a joint venture also sexually. 9. Urbanization, communication, and transportation multiplied the number of encounters and potential interactions between women and men. Comparison became possible. Women were able to judge their male partners in context for the first time. They were able to develop extra-marital relationships with relative ease. They were able to opt out of a relationship, which they deemed to be wrong or inadequate for them. 10. Women became aware of their needs, their wishes and, in general, their proper emotions and cognitions, as opposed to emotions and cognitions instilled in them by society through the agency of the men in their lives, by other conformist women and as a result of peer pressure. They were able to establish priorities and preferences and act upon them, even when they conflicted with others'. 11. The roles and traditional functions of the family were gradually eroded and transferred to other social agents. Even functions such as emotional support, psychosexual interactions and child rearing were relegated to outside "subcontractors". Devoid of these functions and of inter-generation interactions, the nuclear family was reduced to a dysfunctional shell, a hub of rudimentary communication between its remaining members, a dilapidated version of its former self. The traditional roles of women and their alleged character propensities and inclinations were no longer of use in this new environment. Emotional emptiness was bound to set in – and it did. Women had to find a new definition, a new niche. They were literally driven out of their homes by its functional disappearance. 12. In parallel, women's life expectancy increased, their child bearing years were prolonged, their health improved dramatically, their beauty was preserved through a myriad of newfangled techniques. This gave women a new lease on life. They were no longer likely to die at childbirth, to look decrepit at 30 years of age. They were able to time their decision to bring a child to the world, or to refrain from doing so passively or actively (by having an abortion). This growing control over their body, which has been objectified, reviled and admired for millennia by men – is arguably one of the most striking features of the feminine revolution. It allowed women to rid themselves of deeply embedded masculine values, views and prejudices concerning their physique and their sexuality. 13. Finally, the legal system and other social and economic structures adapted themselves to reflect most of the above sea changes. Being inertial and cumbersome, these reacted slowly, partially and gradually. Still, they did react and any comparison between the situation just twenty years ago and today is likely to reveal substantial differences. But this revolution is only a segment of a much larger one. In the past, the axes with which we opened our discussion were closely and seemingly inextricably intertwined. The Economic, the Social and the Emotional (this was the axis invested in the preservation of societal mores and ideologies) constituted one amalgam – and the Private, the Familial and the Utilitarian-Rational constituted another. In other words: society encouraged people to get married because it was emotionally committed to a societal-economic ideology which infused the family with sanctity, an historical mission and grandeur. But the majority of men and women got married out of a cold economic calculation that regarded the family as a functioning economic unit, within which the individual could find his economic expression in the most effective manner. Forming families was an efficient technique of wealth generation, accumulation and transfer across time and space. These traditional alliances of axes were diametrically reversed in the last few decades. The modern permutations: the Social and Economic axes together with the Utilitarian (Rational) axis and the Emotional axis is now aligned with the Private and Familial axes. Put simply, society encourages people to marry today because it wishes to maximize their economic output while most people do not see it this way and wish mostly to find a safe emotional haven in the family. The distinction between past and present may be subtle but it is by no means trivial. In the past, people expressed emotions through set formulas, social patterns, beliefs and ideologies and the family was part of these modes of expression. But really, it served as a mere economic unit, devoid of any emotional involvement and content. Today, people are looking to the family for emotional sustenance (romantic love, companionship) and do not strive to use it as an instrument to enhance their social and economic status. The modern family is not a way to maximize utility (this was the historical, now obsolete, contribution of men to it). Rather it has become an unstable base as a result of emotional vicissitudes (and this is the contribution of women). Women sought emotional comfort in the family and when they failed to find it, used their newfound self-sufficiency and freedoms and divorced (most divorces in the West are the initiative of women, contrary to common opinion). Men sought in the family the emotional stability, which will let them launch a thousand ships. Whenever the family failed as an economic and social launching pad – men lost interest in it and began looking for extramarital alternatives. This trend of disintegration was further supported and made possible by new technological innovations such as the cellular phone, the internet, the personal computer and the multiplicity of media channels. All these encouraged self-sufficiency and unprecedented social segmentation. While in the past, society at large regarded families in an emotional light, as part of the prevailing ideology – it now tended to regard it in a utilitarian-rational light, as an efficient mode of organization of economic and social activity. And while in the past the individuals involved regarded the family mainly in a utilitarian-rational manner (as a wealth producing unit, facilitating wealth accumulation and transfer across space and time) – now they began to pass emotional judgement on it. In the eyes of the individual, families were transformed from economic production units to emotional powerhouses. In the eyes of society, families were transformed from elements of emotional and spiritual ideology to utilitarian-rational production units. This shift of axes and emphases led to a widening rift between men and women. The latter always accentuated the emotional side of the couple and of the family. Men always emphasized the convenience and the utility of the family. This was unbridgeable. Men acted as conservative social agents, women as revolutionaries. What is happening to the institution of the family today was, therefore, inevitable. 031014 ... MeKoy sister prep, man chalenged brother law breaker, weomen pleaser cussen lost freind, fallen hand uncel murder, free spirit aunt slut, hinding from the world grandpal child malester,family seperator grandmal clueless, sickness mother allcholic, abusive father lost, put apart step father drug attic, women beatter nefue fathers eyes, full of fright neice troubel makeer, past reminder sister in law just a stoll,makes brother forget us all brother in law well just an ass, thank god hes a thing of the past now friends thats my family, someone who really i think might love me. 031226 ... tchiseen i just loved them, i was scared to death of her father but he was good to me always, even when i called for the first time in a long god so long he remembered me which i think makes him a good father and makes him a good man. i was good to his daughter and i think he knew it. i took out the garbage and he yelled at me once, but it was worth it. i loved his wifes cooking i brought her home on time and drove safely and told the truth. i only kissed her in his house sometimes :) i played with his only son and cleaned up after him a bit and helped him up and down and in and out and around the boat we didnt go out on but it didnt matter because she had on her suit and that suits me just fine i didnt say anything BAD about the celtics i ate more turkey then i should have outside it took a bit longer than he'd thought but it was damn tasty. i think i envied her because her parents loved her, not one at a time, but at once and that's right and that's the way its supposed to be she made her sing and i cried and they made her cry and i sang her to sleep. 040421 ... tchiseen i just loved them, i was scared to death of her father but he was good to me always, even when i called for the first time in a long god so long he remembered me which i think makes him a good father and makes him a good man. i was good to his daughter and i think he knew it. i took out the garbage and he yelled at me once, but it was worth it. i loved his wifes cooking i brought her home on time and drove safely and told the truth. i only kissed her in his house sometimes :) i played with his only son and cleaned up after him a bit and helped him up and down and in and out and around the boat we didnt go out on but it didnt matter because she had on her suit and that suits me just fine i didnt say anything BAD about the celtics i ate more turkey then i should have outside it took a bit longer than he'd thought but it was damn tasty. i think i envied her because her parents loved her, not one at a time, but at once and that's right and that's the way its supposed to be she made her sing and i cried and they made her cry and i sang her to sleep. 040421 ... tchiseen i just loved them, i was scared to death of her father but he was good to me always, even when i called for the first time in a long god so long he remembered me which i think makes him a good father and makes him a good man. i was good to his daughter and i think he knew it. i took out the garbage and he yelled at me once, but it was worth it. i loved his wifes cooking i brought her home on time and drove safely and told the truth. i only kissed her in his house sometimes :) i played with his only son and cleaned up after him a bit and helped him up and down and in and out and around the boat we didnt go out on but it didnt matter because she had on her suit and that suits me just fine i didnt say anything BAD about the celtics i ate more turkey then i should have outside it took a bit longer than he'd thought but it was damn tasty. i think i envied her because her parents loved her, not one at a time, but at once and that's right and that's the way its supposed to be she made her sing and i cried and they made her cry and i sang her to sleep. 040421 ... tchiseen i just loved them, i was scared to death of her father but he was good to me always, even when i called for the first time in a long god so long he remembered me which i think makes him a good father and makes him a good man. i was good to his daughter and i think he knew it. i took out the garbage and he yelled at me once, but it was worth it. i loved his wifes cooking i brought her home on time and drove safely and told the truth. i only kissed her in his house sometimes :) i played with his only son and cleaned up after him a bit and helped him up and down and in and out and around the boat we didnt go out on but it didnt matter because she had on her suit and that suits me just fine i didnt say anything BAD about the celtics i ate more turkey then i should have outside it took a bit longer than he'd thought but it was damn tasty. i think i envied her because her parents loved her, not one at a time, but at once and that's right and that's the way its supposed to be she made her sing and i cried and they made her cry and i sang her to sleep. 040421 ... tchiseen i just loved them, i was scared to death of her father but he was good to me always, even when i called for the first time in a long god so long he remembered me which i think makes him a good father and makes him a good man. i was good to his daughter and i think he knew it. i took out the garbage and he yelled at me once, but it was worth it. i loved his wifes cooking i brought her home on time and drove safely and told the truth. i only kissed her in his house sometimes :) i played with his only son and cleaned up after him a bit and helped him up and down and in and out and around the boat we didnt go out on but it didnt matter because she had on her suit and that suits me just fine i didnt say anything BAD about the celtics i ate more turkey then i should have outside it took a bit longer than he'd thought but it was damn tasty. i think i envied her because her parents loved her, not one at a time, but at once and that's right and that's the way its supposed to be she made her sing and i cried and they made her cry and i sang her to sleep. 040421 ... tchiseen really honestly sorry :) im sorry i didnt mean to post that many times, my computer did that and i appologize for it. 040421 ... once again The F word. They build you up and tear you down. And you love them and despise them. And everyday you hold onto this futile assembly with the tips of you fingers not daring to let it drift away, and hoping against hope it does not burst. The midnight screams are merely background music now. They quiet pain just unremarkable scar tissue. And there are no words for what it means or waht it doesn't. No way to say... I love you and it kills me. Or I hate you for what you've done. And you want to explain to these people who have become familiar strangers exactly waht they mean to you. How you believed in them and they let you down. How you hoped for them and they let themselves down. How you wished on the dying fire of their stars that they would be happy and free and they burned out before you had quite finished. And everyday... and every tear you do not cry every burning in your throat... every silence. And you listen as he deconstructs himself into soemthing he believes is right... and you listen to her pouring out her heart and sould and passion into the black hole he was become. And you see the dark shadow in the door... the sleeping monster wakened by the voices. And you watch as it listens to the sound knowing what will happen with that unmistakable foresight that routine brings. And as she tells him that she loves him and that she wants to help him... the monster becomes enraged... and it lashes out. Stinging claws slicing the thin remnants of her hope. And as she cries out in anger and pain and desperation and loss, her voicing rising and breaking the ocean untamed. And suddenly it is over. The violent truce of a fight that is to tired to continue. It lies panting on shattered dreams and pulsing screams whispering in its throat. And night falls in... the innocence of crickets chipping and frogs thrumming out of place like butterflies at a blood bath. and for a second the world fades from blue to red to blue as your fists and heart and voice try to reconcile with each other. And as the last urge for retribution fades and a single tear rolls down the unforgiving line of anger you know that somethings are not worth fighting for. 040718 ... misstree is drunk again family: you're not wearing that out to dinner, are you? i've got an outfir i can put you in, regardless of comfort or personal style... Family: are you wearing that? babe, you've got holes in weird places, i've got a t you can borrow... family: why do you have a picture of a nosebleed? you did *what*? Family: you did *what* for that nosebleed? sweet! did it hurt? family: you want another drink? you know, i worry about you... Family: you're drinking cheap? you know, i worry about you... bartender, make that an absolut and vodka, me pradner has a stomach issues... family: Family: (note: both have been censored, as they deal with more peronal issues concerning doctors than i care to tell the whole frickin' world.) end result: i need my Family. they know the lines. my family knows when they think they should be concerned. it's going to be a bad night, tonight. 040807 ... Stuffy Fluff hi its me again stuffy_fluff ill tell you about my family i have a Grandma called Romesh he was a Nazi I have a Granpa called Emily she goes to councelling for mental needs. because my grandma was a Nazi naturally my mum is too a Nazi Grandma forced my dad and mum togehter at a refugee camp for entetainment but there was an accident. thats where i came in. my mum, hes sexless and dad is gay but hes really fun. he plays catch with me. he treats me as a son though mum treats me like a daughter. they also were forced to adopt my brother and sister. im really good friends with my brother Eka but and our hobbies are bullying my sister Adam. (he seems to have caught the gay gene from my dad) i have two wierd pets and a soccer ball Judy, Amanda and Claresta. My aunt Peter is slightly unkind to me but hes alright. most of the time he ignores me but we play together on the computer game called runescape. i have a really great uncle called Sabena. he my favourite uncle hes really kind to me and tried to hook me up with all these girls. 041111 ... dash it's true...you can find family...from genetic relations...basically stuck with them from day one. then, you have Family...oh yes, the ones you know and trust...the ones who truly know who you are. *plays the didgeridoo for a bit* only Family, knowing who you are...with your fucked up sense of humor, who take ya out for a friggin beer or fuckin bourbon if ya need to get out of the house cause youre bringing yourself down, try to cheer you out of the slump youve thrown yourself into when you can't get out of it yourself. those who dare to disagree with you just to get you off the subject ricocheting in your brain, even though they're apt to be indifferent about most of life. fuckin visit your ass when youve been away all summer and youre too friggin poor or too busy to see them until xmas break. yeah, i know who you mean. just rewording in a different perspective. *headbutt* *grins* hey, by the way, if you happen to see or talk to miss yellowstone, please tell him i miss him. he's family. and i had forgotten to get his addresses before i left. i hope all is well, my friend. 041111 ... f your family should be your love, your children, and your friends. 041112 ... ILove I feel like I was thrown to the wolves. I grew up in a divorced family with a step-father who despised me. I use to sneak out of the house and meet friends down at the trestle. We had so much fun, just being ourselves, maybe smoking or having a few beers, or experimenting with our young sexuality. It was fun, we were not hurting anyone. I was the oldest, and my younger sister use to come too. It was o.k., she was under a year younger, we were both teenagers, as a matter of fact she was quite precocious. I wasn't, I was more of a late bloomer, but I had a mouth. I was a born freedom fighter, I was always sticking up for the underdog. It didn't matter if they were right or wrong. I especially liked to stand up to the step-dad, if you could call him dad. Anyhow, they ended up tricking me and putting me in the roundhouse or mental ward or prison for bad teenagers. I never could understand that. They went out drinking twice or three times a week the whole time I grew up. They smoked pot in front of us. I was the designated babysitter when I turned 11, a lot to put on me. I was of four kids. So how I end up in the roundhouse is beyond me, and the deceit they used to get me there, that more than anything astounded me. It was shocking, of course my mom lies about everything, I don't think she knows how to tell the truth, so I shouldn't have been surprised. I hated and loved it there. I met lots of cool people, actually a younger kid I met there ended up being my honey years later. I ran away from there, never to go back, I told them that, sign the release papers or you will never see my face again. They did. Of the four kids, only one of us graduated from high school. That is great odds don't ya think? No surprise when you look at the effort put into raising us, hmmmm. I have moved all over these states and messed up quite a bit. I don't get in trouble with the law like two of my siblings. I just take chances. I filed bankruptcy when I was 20. It was all for hospital bills, no one told me that was dumb for just hospital bills. I had a baby with the guy I told you I met in the roundhouse. He left me at seven months pregnant, never came back from the July 4th Grateful Dead concert, he took my car too. I pulled it together, got a good job and a house, straightened my credit around. I got married a couple years ago and have two more kids. My husband takes more chances than me, he is always so concerned with the material world. He hated my little house and did everything possible to sabotage it. He didn't pay the bills and it got fore-closed on. Oh, well. He built me another house, but he kept on trading cars, and now we lost that house. We escaped to Florida, but we have one car. He works 80 hours a week. I just wanted to go back home. I called and talked to my mom, she pretty much said too bad, your stuck. I have all her grandkids down here. I called my real dad, he said everyone is running out of money up here. We really are all alone in the world. My husband betrays me and my parents betray me. I think, why did I have kids? I am not throwing them to the wolves at 18, I want them forever and ever. Its no wonder half the world is depressed and on meds. It is a lonely world. You can count on yourself thats about it. I am very cynical this week. I am thinking of changing my phone number and putting away so called family pictures. I have me and my kids and screw them. I wonder why I want my kids to know people who are only there for the goodtimes, sorry about your luck during the bad. You probably think I'm harsh. How should I re-act when you find out how alone you really are. Maybe I should be jumping for joy, cool, now I'm free too. Who cares if my sister ends up in jail again. Maybe my mom and step-dad will take her daughter in this time. I'm not perfect, but I have always gone the distance for people, even at the expense of being taken advatage of. I don't know, should I just cut my loses now??? 050930 ... arlais Maybe that's all family really is. A group of people who miss the same imaginary place. 060716 ... devilbunny Remember: A family isn't your "adopted family" just because you moved into their basement without telling them. 061110 ... ever dumbening i'm supposed to go hang out with my family right now (which i had totally forgotten about until my dad just called me ... "are you coming up?" ... shit!). i am so completely not in the mood right now. 061217 ... ever dumbening got in and out quickly. talked with my parents' friend doris about art. 061217 ... hsg roy_g_biv 071008 ... h|s|g lessons. karma. patterns. math. forgiveness. evolution. subjective_petri_dish 100821 ... plip ENGLISH comes from ENGLAND it is called MATHS with a fucking S 100821 ... Rory Is a check in a box. 220926 what's it to you? who go blather from