existence jade existence is simply being in this voyage. we don't really choose to exist, but many of us choose to not exist out of fear. non-existence for us is the act of making a shell of darkness. fear of light is fear of our inevitable becoming. 980904 ... jeff but, is not existence only justification for being hurt? if you have not been loved before, how can you feel pain when it is taken away? sometimes, i find myself wondering about this very question - why do we open ourselves to such things? 980905 ... Caine Because we can't help it. You see, if we didn't reveal our humanity every once in a while, we'd become like Stanley Kubrick, and that ain't no way to be. 980905 ... jake is in the mind. Beyond the mind, everything else is just sensory input. 980912 ... sarah "you don't exist" (say that enough and everything else will disappear) 981021 ... Pacia should never be confused for living. 981107 ... adam is such a vague and undefinable word that it should never even be uttered without a book-length disclaimer to accompany it. 990303 ... bren exist ants exit aunts extra pants xray lens and bic pens 990720 ... mike ...some day you will realize that you did infact exist. 991031 ... Alexander Beetle There are too many things in this world. Everybody is busy willing everything around them to continue existing. This could well explain why there are so many stupid people in the world, being distracted keeping it from disappearing. 991116 ... marjorie i think i need to justify my existence. 991203 ... Lyndsay trying to please the unpleasable, pacifying our fears through false bravery, kissing darkness without knowing we are touching our lips to evil, and knowing nothing more in the end than we did when we started. 991212 ... nameless its like trying to protect the dying 991217 ... bob and in addition to the void there was also me. Let there be light 991217 ... anastacia laughing... laughing... laughing... pulling... overly conscious of my own breathing... and so much background noise... 000318 ... im weird and i was bored I looked down at my legs, at my torn blues. I had been on the road, living in these jeans. My existence was beginning to resemble them. Faded and blue, frayed at the seams, old and worn. I thought about how deep this thought sounded. I hated bad poetry, so I went and got a beer. 000721 ... Sintina A man said to the universe: "Sir, I exist." To which the universe replied, "Sure, but it has not opened in me and molecule of obligation." 010106 ... Stephen To "exist" is not enough. There is "ence". The essence of existence. What is yours? My search continues... yearly reaching, narrowing, finding, until I know mine. 010113 ... soon come anxious, really, really nervous... the twilight before the lawyer... 010417 ... John how does one exist? "I think there for I am" bullshit. rocks don't think (so we believe) but they exist. (supposedly) Tool roughly from memory: "Today a young man on acid realized that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no death, life is but a dream that we experiece through the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather." "I'm there Dude." Butthead 010822 ... LUCY! is neither a function of language or a legal quality.its not and its exactly where you left it. Insists it has a will of its own it- does it -tremors It is and with acts of authenticity enshrines itselves 010910 ... papabear Is there but only one existence that we all share, or do each of us create our own existence by choosing the rules which define our world? More importantly how would we ever know the differance? 011114 ... lost i sometimes doubt mine is worth much. 011114 ... birdmad "well what does it matter? i exist on the best terms i can the past is now part of my future the present is well out of hand" heart and soul joy_division 011114 ... Jackson An endless chain of questions, choices and consequences that slowly strangle you until death. 011203 ... Matthew I am whatever I'm not... A tree with dead branches Therefore a tree with vibrance 011207 ... chiefnewo my existence is not in question i do not ask why i ask how long and wonder how i'll die 020616 ... Dafremen Ask, seek and you CAN find. It is there, it is right there with you, in you, around you. Ask and you shall be answered, seek and you shall find. Only beware of this, that you not seek after what you wish, but after what there is. 020616 ... god like don henley said in the song those_shoes "you get whatever you choose" limited as the choices may be. 020616 ... fardaeon love 020720 ... perpetual puppet is my only experience 020831 ... the oreo is the product of cells. ever wonder why when your brain takes a break, you disapear. where do you go? out of existence. its not so bad 021115 ... what will burn heart_and_soul 021115 ... Rickster My curse. 021228 ... Strideo what is the meaning of existence? . 030102 ... Eowithien There is no way to tell that you are existing until you aren't. You can try to wake yourself but you don't know if thats the right way to do it because you aren't there. You just...aren't. But if I am existing, I will make the best of it and save up my money so I can run away from the oppressive school system and my parents. I will go to Europe and live in George Harrison's mansion with my friends. I hope they exist too... 030306 ... bob existence is a term used "to be" or "is" but what is it really. is it real? does it have shape or being? for that matter what is this thought, this outreach of a mind in question of its self. Is it better to question or "to be" thess questions have plagued my life and my mind for the duration of my life. If you have this sight without eyes please do inform me. I fear i may perish soon. - Rambobob@hotmail.com 030503 ... ashmanzhou pity existence exists i hate it 030721 ... oldephebe the harrow of existence - the rational architectures of coping, the careening, naked, aesthetic creative side - and how do you bring the two in balance - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and you know what - the ubiquity and pervasiveness of irony and its dimunitons, and its sometimes pernicious permutations has a way of attenuating the perception of existence - in esse in posse i'd like a mound of strawberry ice cream that would really ameliorate my exitence 030721 ... oldephebe the word is spelled existence 030721 ... silentbob i think pretty is nice but i'd rather see something new 030721 ... Fire&Roses Music and half formed thoughts floating through hazy mists of memories. Unplacable memories portrayed in such dazzling colors that they must have had some trancendednt significance and yet i am so sure that they are little more then fragments of my life's elevator music. Tail ends of conversations held over many years, tatters of logic and reason desprately trying to enfold this writhing beast. Smells... soap, grass and body odor... the long forgoten essence of people too close, too loud for too long... and tastes, kisses held too long mouths clinging to the foriegn feel of something new, leftovers reheated in the wee hours of teh morning. The feel of sheets on bare skin, the air tangling through your hair, waves crashing madly over you... oh, God, thank you. 030807 ... oldephebe *Fire and Roses* Bravo! Me? a walking plackard of inconstancy. A chimera of chaos caprice and creation 030807 ... ferret existential 030808 ... Strideo antisocial entity ... 030812 ... dragonfly7 I once thought about existence alot, and while doing this, i found i was under alot of pressure and stress. Along with a lack of sleep i managed to convice myself i didnt exist. Which was scary. In my perfect world i'm not there. I think i'm okay now though... 030828 ... Dafremen claptrap 030828 ... violet is existence all we share? 030906 ... Dafremen Certainly not. 030906 ... Sam Vaknin Knives and forks are objects external to us. They have an objective - or at least an intersubjective - existence. Presumably, they will be there even if no one watches or uses them ever again. We can safely call them "Objective Entities". Our emotions and thoughts can be communicated - but they are NOT the communication itself or its contents. They are "Subjective Entities", internal, dependent upon the existence of one observer - us. But what about numbers? The number one, for instance, has no objective, observer-independent status. I am not referring to the number one as adjective, as in "one apple". I am referring to it as a stand-alone entity. As an entity it seems to stand alone in some way (it's out there) - and be subjective in other ways (dependent upon observers). Numbers belong to a third category: "Bestowed Entities". These are entities whose existence is bestowed upon them by social agreement between conscious agents. But this definition is so wide and all encompassing that it might be considered useless. Religion and money are two examples of entities which owe their existence to a social agreement between conscious entities - yet they don't strike us as universal and out there (objective) as numbers do. Indeed, this distinction is pertinent and our definition should be refined accordingly. We must distinguish "Social Entities" (like money or religion) from "Bestowed Entities". The latter - in stark contrast to the former - are not universal, they re dependent on the society, culture and period that gave them birth. Not so with numbers. Numbers are Platonic ideas which come into existence through an act of conscious agreement between ALL the agents capable of reaching such an agreement. While conscious agents can argue about the value of money (read, about its existence) and about the existence of God - no rational, conscious agent can have an argument regarding the number one. Apparently, the bestowed entity category seems to free itself from the eternal dichotomy of internal versus external. It is both and comfortably so. But this is only an illusion. The dichotomy does persist. The bestowed entity is internal to the group of consenting conscious-rational agents - but it is external to any single agent (individual). In other words, a group of rational conscious agents is certain to bestow existence on the number one. But to each and every member in the group - the number one is external. It is through the power of the GROUP that existence is bestowed. Judged by the individual, this existence emanates from outside him (=from the group) and, therefore, is external. Existence is bestowed merely by changing a frame of reference (from individual to group). But this is precisely how we attribute meaning to something!!! We change our frame of reference and meaning emerges. The death of the soldier is meaningful from the point of view of the state and the rituals of the church are meaningful from the point of view of God. By shifting among frames of reference, we elicit and extract and derive meaning. If we bestow existence and derive meaning using the same mental (cognitive) mechanism - does this mean that the two processes are one and the same? Perhaps bestowed existence is a fancy rendition of the more humble "meaning"? Perhaps we give meaning to a number and thereby bestow existence upon it? Perhaps the number's existence is only its meaning and no more? If so, all bestowed entities must be meaning-ful, in other words: all of them must depend for their existence on observers (rational-conscious agents). If all humans were to disappear (and all other intelligent observers) - numbers would cease to exist. Intuitively, we know this is not true. To prove that it is untrue might prove to be a elusive proposition. But numbers are acknowledged to have an independent, universal quality. Their existence does depend on intelligent observers in agreement. But they exist as potentialities, as Platonic ideas, as tendencies. They materialize through intelligent agent in accord rather like ectoplasm materializes through spiritualist mediums. The agreement of the group is a CHANNEL through which numbers (and number like bestowed entities - this would include all of the laws of physics, for instance) are materialized, come into being, AS WE KNOW IT. We are creators. In creation, one brings forth the new from the old. There are laws of conservation that all entities - no matter how supreme - are subject to. We can rearrange, redefine, recombine physical and other substrates. But we cannot create substrates ex nihilo. Thus, everything MUST exist one way or another before we allow it existence as we define it. This rule encompasses the bestowed entities. BUT Wherever humans are involved, springs the eternal dichotomy of internal and external. Art makes use of a physical substrate but it succumbs to external laws of interpretation and thus derives its meaning (=its existence as ART). The physical world, in contrast (similar to computer programmes) contains both the substrate and the laws of operation, the procedures to be applied, the laws of nature. This is the source of the conceptual confusion. In creating we materialize that which is already there, we give it venue and allow it an expression. But we are also forever bound to the dichotomy of internal and external - a HUMAN dichotomy which has to do with our false position as observers, with our ability to introspect. So, we mistakenly confuse the two issues by applying this dichotomy where it does not belong. When we bestow existence upon a number it is not that the number is external to us and we internalize it or that it is internal and we merely externalize it. It is both external and internal. By bestowing existence upon it, we merely recognize it. In other words, it cannot be that, through interaction with us, the number changes its nature (from external to internal or the converse). By realizing something and acknowledging it - we do not change its nature. This is why meaning has nothing to do with existence, bestowed or not. Meaning is a human category. It is the name we give to the cognitive experience of shifting frames of reference. It has nothing to do with entities, only with us. The world has no internal and external to it. Only we do. And when we bestow existence upon a number we only acknowledge its existence. It exists either as neural networks in our brains, or as some other entity (Platonic idea). But, it exists and no amount of interactions with us humans is ever going to change this. 031014 ... harumi it is something we are never sure of like the existence of me 031024 ... oE distilled phenomenology.. the consumations of sartre... 031024 ... oldephebe see: claptrap 031024 ... User24 re: Vaknin's blathe. re: the existence of numbers surely you are confusing existence with perception? I understand what you are saying regarding the distinction of social and bestowed entities, but disagree, define the number one for me? does it have an existence without our conception of it, numbers are an abstract concept, nothing more. Like time. You say that "no rational, conscious agent can have an argument regarding the number one." but I disagree, and ask again, define 'one'. And now, with that definition, add two ones together, and tell me that the result is not one number. (the value of 1)+(the value of 1) = (a value of 2) however, we're not talking about -values- but concepts, (the concept of the number one)+(the concept of the number one) = a concept of two numbers added = one concept or, more simply one number added to one number has the value of two numbers, but is still only one number. numbers do not exist, they have no existence beyond our minds. While convienient, we -cannot- define existence as perception, for example, If I hear you say "card" but you thought you said "hard", who is correct? Are we both correct? Is the one who manages to convince the other correct? Am I correct if I'm asking who's correct, and you correct if you're asking? If existence=perception, how can we know what the absolute truth of a situation is? blah.. ramble. I don't know the answer. 031211 ... marked . 040103 ... oldephebe bob..i hope you are feeling much better these days..i was in such a hurry back then to among other things sing this bitter sweet song that wears my heart away..most of what i write is derivative of that..but it strikes me that you were reaching out and no one responded..we were all in such a hurry to hoist our pathos and pedantry upon the plackard...into our laps these carrion birds come..and i wish i had the gift to give to you..something to lighten your heart bob..the wound of longing..yeah..damn hope your feelin' better these days bob.. 040116 ... Unnamed It's in the method of the madness of being here... Take your days in stride and take your stride with the long steps cast by the shadow of the sunset. Thirty miles long and three miles wide, the sun is dying for you. Take in what you can, live for your catastrophic finale. 040126 ... perpetual puppet another_existence 040220 ... Bystander Existence is Life. It is death. It is love, pain, despair, happiness and lonliness. Non-existence is itself existence as it is the existence of nothing. Existence is Enigma. It is the one thing that can not be explained. No mathematics nor science nor religion can explain it. It leads to the famous question that has puzzled all since the dawn of time: Why are we here? What would be if nothingness prevailed through the universe? Yet if there was no existence there would be no universe to be empty. Existence is more than just life or death or emotions... it simply is. All that is, was and will be is existence. Without it there would be only nothingness, which can't be imagined as it is simply not being. Lack of it is less then a blank space, or color or silence. Existence is Reason. Since existence does, in fact exist, it leads one to think since we are here, we must have a purpose. If there is no reason to do anything, then let existence be your reason. We are here. Let us make the most of it, right? 040304 ... stork daddy he always wanted to stop trying. to stop eating, to stop working. just to see if what he expected to happen would. it seemed to him, a small way of proving that the world probably really existed, wasn't just created in this moment memories and all. or at least that if it was he was created with the correct false memories to navigate whatever was real, because even if it was there was still the matter of proving that the expectations you were spawned with held and also all of the things spawned of which you were not given expectations to experience. but really experience was the problem. what could you really do if the world was just created. if the world needed no in world starting point or reference as a cause, it could end as a unpredictable effect. like driving down a road, what would that mean? to ever really do it, you would have to be created at the end of the road where at least your false memory would give you a sense of completion. if the road was really traversed, even that would need a continous respawning of each moment with memories corresponding to the previous universe. that was even weirder to him, that there might not be any real continuity, but that things kept being recreated as if there were. still to even be recreated there'd have to be a continuity of sorts, a last world and new world. if indeed there was only the present, if memory itself was only the present, then there was nothing more real to anchor to. there was no distinction to draw. it seemed hard to go on to any other questions when this one seemed so central. who cared what was for breakfast this morning, if you couldn't even prove it was THIS morning. he thought, well hunger is real either way. he saw some people who he knew was smart enough to ask this question, but were able to pragmatically just go on, do what had to be done, or they thought had to be done, or just was done. maybe he thought, they were created with different memories and hungers than me. it doesn't change the question of the moment. other people were a problem though. if they were created to know yesterday that they wore blue, and he was as well, either they really exist, or all reality is programmed with some sort of internal consistency. but was he programmed to confirm theirs or they his? he thought, the world has to exist long enough for me to at least describe it or question it or what is this now? the more he thought about it, the more confused he was. i mean what's the point of me doing anything if it might not make a difference either way, if the world doesn't continue to exist long enough for me to get to the end of any road, if i'm not at the mercy of the causes we're taught to court, but a world that can be spawned with me suddenly a murderer or me suddenly happy beyond my wildest dreams. it almost seemed best to wait, or to be truly courageous and just die (though it couldn't be proven specifically that this would force any hand). he wished he understood the eloquent arguments of math and modern physics, or the truth found in ancient texts and religions. the best he could do was living for the offchance that this was all real, that his actions mattered in a practical if not a religious or ethical sense (a scary thought, he could be in a simulation with fake people and choices, testing the mettle of his soul for admission to heaven...but at least then they wouldn't be hurt...but what if he realized they weren't real...) but in a real sense. it was ironic because the offchance that made life worth continuing to live was that life was worth continuing to live. after all, if there is no consistency to life to today and tomorrow other than as props for one another, things to be explained with imagination rather than logic, or causes created by effects, then what does it mean to continue to live? 040310 ... stork daddy it came down to faith. science, art, waking up and not breaking down in tears, all took unbearable leaps of faith. we must assume to procede. 040310 ... stork daddy it seemed an advantage of humanity to be able to say, we should question, but know when to stop, know when it's too much, know what's besides the point. because as far as we know, we don't live outside the universe. any answers which exist there are not ours. not everything is ours. but faith, faith is our birthright 040310 ... stork daddy and yet he could not help the questions, the wavering from running his mind in circles. because he wanted to know the measure of what's he done, or what he could be. the enormity or the insignificance of it all. 040310 ... sameolme all things considered and all things unconsidered, everything my eyes passed by as I was leaping to conclusions. 040310 ... perpetual puppet your very existence for what you've done, a shame though I'm grateful, that you had to be the one. In your eyes I saw beauty, an innocence I have met before, maybe as a memory that I can't quite place, you are my only proof we are passing through time and space? I thank you for seeing, laughing and crying but never understanding, that as the sky opens up and I steal time you will know that your eternity was mine, you remember what I told you...? that we don't need eyes to see, so when I leave, your's shall come with me. your last thought confusion? I will tell you your crime, allowing your path through life to cross mine 040411 ... kx21 Definition:- Existence One's "Shadow" in Tathagata_Store... 040726 ... bork Everyone knows not to stare into the sun. It's a general rule of thumb. its something your mother tells you when you’re a kid “Don’t stare at the sun or you’ll go blind”. But sometimes you want to understand something so badly that youll risk going blind for just a glimpse of what the unknown might all be about... 040806 ... z is a standing wave 050502 ... three words my_heart_in_everything oh_darling existence 050504 ... z is are am be 050505 ... z is in an inverse proportional relationship to non-existence 050520 ... andru235 an istence you no longer speak to 050520 ... jumpforjade i dont know myself. all these words i utter they cannot belong to me... do you ever feel like your entire existence is just a shallow, imaginary, song and dance to distract your peers from your true identity from the person inside your head: the supplier of your conscience, the motivator of your actions, the filter of the notions that will become verbally conveyed, the interpreter of people's inner identities acting on your own reactionary methods. and the grandeur of the show that your external, tangible choices create-- the scale of that wall encircling the secret garden of your thoughts-- depends on how well your outward expressions match like accessories in accordance to your inner identity’s outfit and though your outfit might be nice, smart, sophisticated ill-advised accessories change the initial vibe for example, my poems and writings serve as a vehicle for my true identity but lingering immaturity from the person I have grown out of begets clumsy words i present myself in situational banter and from those conversations, my peers draw their own conclusions of who I am but my entire outer demeanor is only a tease a prelude to the fruits of my existence censored and edited and revised by my mood, my notions of others, my looks, my ideas of relevancy and comedy, my unpredictable confidence or lack there of… and a million more factors in a given situation and this process is further complicated by the natural human tendency to evolve im talking about the evolution life induces within every single human being the evolution of a person as accruing years give way to increased maturity and I feel like a lot of times, even those who know me closely don’t get that… i want to scream at them i want to command that they torch/demolish/abandon their mental libraries-- the places where they keep their purported understanding of my true identity because I am not the same person as I was a year ago, or a month ago, or even a day ago and even if I was the same person, that is not the person I truly was inside anyway even at that time because its impossible to ever tell 050818 ... heybrianfoster today i tried existing and found it was almost enough. 050927 ... - - 090319 ... RoxRoxx I think we Choose to make our existence have purpose. One must make true Effort in giving their existence meaning. Unfortunately knowing this and actually doing something about it are two totally different things. =/ 091010 ... Clif Fjord Each choice we make helps determine our existence and it's meaning. Knowing this, it is logical to surmise that by adding knowledge to our consciousness can in fact expand and build on our present existence and the meaning we assign to it. In short: I think therefor I am. 091010 ... no reason sometimes i wonder what the point is of mine 100608 what's it to you? who go blather from