mathematics The Truth Hold the very key to the universe. And humans hold the key to understanding mathematics. (opposed to say, squirrels for instance, they suck at math :] ) Now the question is: If the Universe is a doorway, where does it open to? 010810 ... monadh interesting point/question/statement/blath I think I must fit into the squirrel category though,... all I can count is one. 010810 ... kx21 My latest blue sky finding... 1) The Universe(s) = Star(s) + Shit(s) + Hole(s) + Unknown(s) Can you prove this or disprove this? 2) Holes is the most amazing string in all Universes. It is the door or more precisely, passsge way for something to something else... Copyright 2001. kx21.com 010810 ... dB kx21, what do you speculate is on the other side? You are always a fountain of wisdom, so maybe you can answer this one simple question. 010820 ... unhinged mathematics isn't the key to anything. when you try to analyze god's poem, you strip it of the very essence; existence. the key to the universe is the mind in all of it's un-analytical glory. saying_saying_away 010820 ... dB who said anything about stripping away. Mathematics, science, philosophy, whatever, they are tools that help us understand. I'm sure god does not want us to feel that his way is a secret that we are not allowed to understand. 010820 ... unhinged did you ever notice however that the higher you explore the realms of mathematics and science and philosophy the more complicated these matters become? microbiology, quantum physics, calulus, nieztche...is that really all understanding of god's design? there is nothing more simple than life. no need to invent calculus to find out why. it's just the HUMAN mind trying to organize perceived chaos. maybe the great understanding of god's great and wonderful poem is that one day he sat down and he threw together a great big planet and let it sit there for millions of years without interfering. so where's the science in that? the human world never will understand. but i guess we can have fun trying. 010820 ... norega esta loca 010820 ... The Truth The true poetry of God's poem consists of making the tiny seed that, once planted, would grow into the colorful blossom of a universe (including humans, and their minds). Mathematics is just one of his tools, like, miracle grow or something. The point is... We, HUMANS, do math. It is unique to our species. Since the beginning of our TIME we have been inclined to count, measure, weigh, compare and solve numerical problems. Obviously, it is our destiny to know math. The universe is constructed with math. There is a formula for everything, (I believe)... If something exists, it has a number. It has an equation that plugs into the Theory of everything equation. 010820 ... unhinged or we could say it is the evolution of the human mind that has allowed us to become proficient at math...which i think is more the case than any kind of destiny. i don't think god sticks his fingers in it very often. he might have connected man to ape but after that he let us wander where we willed. 010821 ... The Truth Evolution = Destiny? What is evolution is evolving to? What does evolution add up to? Math is infinite Humanity is infinite Destiny is infinite Natural Adaptation is infinite. but...when you look closely... Evolution is finite, limited. 010822 ... kx21 Can human strings or emotions e.g. the_string_between_man_and_woman, kindness, etc. be mathematised? 010822 ... kx21 Any good_point to share about mathematization or scientification of Human strings / relationships / emotions? 010822 ... unhinged how is destiny infinite? i thought the whole point of the concept is that it is finite. if you think you can do anything or go anywhere or make anything out of your life that doesn't follow the concept of destiny to me. if you think you make your own destiny, i guess that's empowering but i don't think it's true. and how is evolution finite? the whole point is it's an ever-changing process. if evolution was finite we would still use our appendixes and have use for our wisdom teeth. oh yeah....and that whole vestigal bone thing like 'tail'bone. but i guess somehow i could see the finite process involved in evolution...almost. 010822 ... unhinged natural adaptation=evolution? yes? no? maybe? maybe i haven't studied biology in 5 years, but they seem synonomous to me. 010822 ... The Truth Natural adaptation is the behavior of life. Evolution is the invention of man. Life does evolve, but darwins theory is missing so much. It needs a lot of work before it's finished. There are way too many holes to be as accepted as it is, (I feel). I think the reason for it's rapid acceptence is the fact that some found it useful to "disprove" and combat the oppressive church. Besides, it is highly logical at first and second glances. They will never find the "missing link" to link Humankind with the standard evolution on Earth. Simply because humankind is alien to this ecosystem. A new plant from a different garden. Genetics hold more value in my opinion. There are instructions within the genes that control the variations. They trigger the mutations. They know the outcome. But... That is not random, or accidental adaptation. That is a work of art, being further refined. A sculpture being detailed further. It is the safety net designed by the engineer. If it was ALL based on survival of the fittest, I think this world would be extraordinarily hostile. Everything would need a superior defense, or a superior offense. Like those creatures in the movie ALIENS[1-4]. Beings as graceful and beautiful as deer would never make it. [Although the ticking of the cosmic clock, striking the surface with meteorites every time the clock chimes could help to sustain a less hostile environment.] The appendix does have a use, our doctors just don't KNOW what it does yet, so they pretend the are smarter than they are, and say it doesn't have a use. The Medicine Industry is relatively new, let's not forget that it is still in it's child stages. Nature is not inefficient. Everything is used. Oh, and I have all my wisdom teeth, they are very useful to me. 010822 ... ....... ....... 010822 ... ....... (¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.-[Symmetry]-.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯) 010822 ... unhinged but just because it has limitations does not mean it is finite. calculus has limitations but it is not finite. which brings me back to my original point. this whole evolution/destiny arguement is just human beings trying to make sense out of the unexplainable. that is what science and religion are for. none of us know the true answer and we find comfort in different interpretations of the same answer. speculation is a dangerous game when played with absolute belief. 010822 ... dB why is it that quamtum physics is easy, cosmology is easy, statistics, calculus... all that is easy, but I can't do 6th form algebra? No matter how hard I tried I just didn't get it. destiny = resolution (eventually, so therefore it's finite). 010822 ... kx21 The best model or reference for Harmony from Math / Science:- Termal Equilibrium... What is the best model or reference for Kindness from Math / Science? 010822 ... The Truth Kindness (k) = a postitive force so kindness would be represented mathematically as [+1(k)] where (k) would be the amount, or value of kindness. 010822 ... The Truth I agree with you unhinged on everything EXCEPT the unexplainable part. Which brings me to MY point: There is a mathematical formula for everything: (Physics, Chemistry, Energy, Forces, biology, motion, gravity, mass, etc.) And Humans understand Mathematical formulas... So everything can be broken down into mathematical formulas and thus be explainable and understand by humans. Now, I know we don't yet have all the variables, but with our friendly computing machines to help us count, it shouldn't be too long at all. 010822 ... The Truth Destiny is infinite because it existed before time. Without time, everything is eternal. Eternal = infinity. When time runs out, i.e. ceases to exist, there will still be destiny, oh yes... there will still be destiny my precious. (See what you've done now Gollum!?!) 010822 ... dB nope. I still don't believe destiny is infinite. 010822 ... The Truth That's ok. It's a tangent that is completely irrelevant to the scope of this discussion. Where does it end then? Who cares! Where did it begin then? Who knows! Let's talk mathematics shall we? What is the difference between and orange? 010822 ... unhinged something cannot be infinite without the concept of time. infinity implies some form of measurement. time is a form of measurement. i was brushing up on my calculus (yes i am a nerd) and i was reading today that everyone has their own concept of measurement which makes measurement in and of itself an infinite venture. mathematics is just the study of infinity. which was why calculus always made my brain hurt. just stretched it to it's capacity of understanding. i think in my own mind life is much more simple. that is my understanding and belief. there are some things that will never be explained by the human mind because there are things that exist beyond our realm of capabilities. if you believe that humanity is the pinnacle of existence and the human mind holds the keys to all understanding, that is rather egocentric. mathematics was created by the human mind...the ultimate hypothesis of order. therefore it cannot explain all the mysteries of the universe. the egocentrism of humanity pervades us. 010822 ... The Truth Impressive... I concede my argument. You are right. 010822 ... kx21 Given that Human's mind or creativity is more than one's can perceive or conceive... It implies that Math is more than infinity... Math proves kindness? 010823 ... The Truth It's like the movie "The Matrix" when Neo was finally ready, he could see the world as binary strings of numbers that represented the world around him. He could then manipulate those numbers however he wanted to. The Matrix was then his playground. Some movies are such a metaphor for reality...makes you wonder. 010824 ... j_blue i havent read much of the above blathe, so forgive me for any potential repetition. and here is my 'what it is' : math is just a very clear way of describing the universe, that helps make clear what might otherwise be too obscure. any other description could point to ego... 010824 ... Dafremen Yo...hey unhinged....do0d...that WAS brilliant..um but the fact that Truth conceded so quickly and easily should have been a clue to you that something was up. See you're not right exactly...I'm afraid. Infinity does NOT require time, although I personally believe that time is infinite. In fact I think I'm finally comfortable with the notion that there was no beginning of time either if you can fathom such a thing. Back to infinity though. See an infinite number of anything isn't a reference to the duration of the items, it's a reference to the interations or more specifically to the lack of any BOUNDS on those interations..like pick the biggest number and add 1 to it sort of stuff. When we speak of infinite time, we are speaking of the amount or iterations of any unit of time measurement, not the duration. Infinity speaks of boundlessness quantity, finite: bounded knowable quantity. Boundless quantity is still possible instantaneously, as nearly impossible as the concept is to imagine. Mathematicians have a symbol for infinity, I suppose you might say that as long as it takes them to write it is as fast as you can count to the end of all counting, but I believe you get my point and hope that it is well taken. Your argument, was..most righteously well written and well thought out, I'm open to any rebuttal of course...you ARE the do0d...as you are well aware. The rest of your blather was dead on the money as usual. Humans...heheh silly guys. (Pokes humanity in the belly like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.) 010824 ... Gollum goes to college suck! I hate my math class! 010824 ... The Truth I conceded because I am lazy. And it seemed like we all agreed, yet still spoke in debate mode. Plus, I really don't know all that much about mathematics, so I felt sheepish trying to discuss it intellectually. I was borderline ignorant, trying to discuss things which I know nothing about. I excelled in geometry but I failed algebra twice. Never bothered to go to calculus, or even trig. In college I just took the bare minimums of the required math courses. I can't stand doing repetitive tasks, and that's what the American Education Association thinks is required in order to learn math, how uncreative of a way to learn is that? Anyway...I am fascinated by physics and the numerical nature of reality. I was told that infinity was incomprehensible, but I always thought about it anyway, regardless of whether or not it was "impossible to understand" and now I can play with it in my mind as easy as pi. Time had a beginning. It was born with matter and gravity and the universe. Time has an end, as does the universe (and gravity, and matter). (See... at least I know SOME stuff) But...there was a "insert word for non-time here" before the universe existed where time did not exist, so right NOW would last forever. There would be no such thing as "ago" or "past" or "future" Nothing elapses. It would be as hard to imagine time from that point as it is for us to imagine non-time. Time is the fabric of the envelope which allows our mystery to unfold. Which makes time a very integral part of our beautiful mystery. 010825 ... Dafremen Truth...you know that song about letting the facts get out and spreading the truth? The one about little lights hiding under bushels? Well man, the song goes: "Hide it under a bushel..NO!" NOT "Hide it under a bushel NOW!" Sigh...(I could have just left this thread alone...but NO! ..or is that NOW! ?) 010825 ... The Truth What are you talking about? No...I don't know the song. I don't think I could listen to a song that has "bushel" as one of it's lyrics. 010825 ... unhinged ok, daf i get ya. like i said...i've always had a hard time understanding the concept of infinity. limits in calculus drove me crazy. so eventually i just gave up on full understanding and just followed the rules i was taught on how to do problems involving them. math and me didn't get along as well as music and english and me. and actually this blathe was a lot more of my mind rambling in circles around something i can't quite grasp than anything else. MATH SUCKS 010825 ... transatlantic Mathematics is simply complex. A rare beauty. Love can be as hard as algebra. 010826 ... Dafremen Hey do0d....math was MY worst subject too. I was all history and science. I loved writing, but my English teachers bored the piss out of me. Except for the literature teacher. He was good. Now what WAS that guy's name? (My favorite was my history teacher...Mr. Kokainis and yes that's pronounced Cocaine-is.) 010826 ... Dafremen By the way do0d. I was rereading all of your blathes and with the single exception of the infitity thing, I agree one hundred percent. The quest for answers is like hopping on a bus to leave your destination. We're already know what we need to know, right here, right now. It's all around us and we're so busy diseccting and studying it that we've stopped appreciating the art that is the universe and instead marvel at it's cold calculable implementation. We've given up magic for mechanics, poetry for precision and we're folls for having done so. If only I hasn't been suckled on the empirical teet, perhaps I would resent the fact that humanity had stolen my innocence from me and the bliss that came with it, but I am a child of science, and so shall I remain. Once the door has been opened, there's no closing it completely ever again, and so I can never REALLY get the magic back, just fake it maybe with a little old time religion, no thanks. That's a shame, a real shame. (Silly humans...now you've gone and dragged ME into your mess.) But I've seen the truth and the vision and the innocence from afar in my mind's eye, and it sent tears streaming down my face to see. We will have it again do0d, no doubt...we'll get another go 'round. See Also: MEET_ROGER_DAFREMEN Into The River(of Life) 010826 ... kx21 How can we string Mahematics with Emotion, given Number = Money / Material? 010826 ... DannyH How do I love thee? Let me count the ways... 010826 ... kx21 Love the ways instead of Count the ways? 010826 ... richard butler Love my way 010826 ... Alexander Beetle Chances are, you will never have to solve an algebraic equation in your entire life, BUT! to think that you will never need to know HOW to solve an algebraic equation is Just Plain Wrong. Math class may suck, but it stretches your mind, gives you new ways to look at and solve other problems. So sit up and pay attention, or get left behind. 011027 ... ilovepatsajak there was this saying to help remember how to spell it...something about a mouse 011027 ... god mouse ass tastes hearty every monday and tuesday in colorado springs 020402 ... PEACELOVESHEEP Mathematics is synonimous with torture 021230 ... ferret the truth, when you said, "what is the difference between and orange" i believe the proper question was: "what is the difference between a duck" also, it's easy to imagine infinity, it's hard to see it. it's easy to hear, feel, smell, taste it. but impossible to see it. think for a moment. think about our U. think of the U as 1 little SS. now, expand that SS into millions of SSs. good. keep going. keep going and going and going. the energizer bunny was onto something. good. just keep going. now, think about everything you just imagined as a little ball. now think of everything outside the ball as a big "white" nothing. what is there? nothing? or more U? who knows? is it God? is that where God is? who knows? now, go back, back, back, back, back to earth, back to you're state. think about your house. think about yourself. think about your cells. the milions of them. the trillions of them, now, think about the quarks, the possible **insert # here** of them. now, think about what they're made of. consider each of the particles that make up the quarks as a U. now, think about OUR_U. what's outside the quark? more quarks that make up an element, that make up a cell, that make up millions of cells, now think about all the cells as one big ball. think about everything outside the cells as a "white" nothingness. what is outside of all the cells? is it nothing? or is it something that the cells are a part of? a greater being? is it God? you tell me. 030427 ... joda This reminds me of the feeling I get, when I picture this earth, sitting in nothing. Nothing that extends forever. This nothing has no end, and we sit in it. It's almost unimaginable to consider and endless anything, because of the lines and circumferences we draw to hold us in, yet if you think about it, everything extends forever. Where ARE we exactly? Where IS this space we sit in? And IS there an end? It's humbling to think of one's self as sitting in something, inside something else inside something else, and so on... It just keeps getting bigger, multiplying itself exponentially. And there's no way to comprehend it, for we cannot touch it. 030427 ... who i am doesnt matter anymore I will never understand it so i wish youd stop forcing me to try. 031023 ... Brett more eternal, and truthful than the bible truly, a poem written by God. 060215 ... anne-girl the bad news: there's no key to the universe the good news: it isn't locked. 060216 ... curious I know this is a quote... by who? 060217 ... curious I know this is a quote... by who? 060217 ... curious I know this is a quote... by who? 060217 ... !!!!!!!!!!!! great quote a-g 060217 ... anne-girl Swami Beyondananda, apparently. google for details. http://www.wakeuplaughing.com/about.html it's from an amusing list called "Guidelines for Enlightenment" 060217 ... nandita I dreamt last night that you called and said, "thanks for that blathe on mathematics." I was surprised that you were still in blather, because I think you don't anymore. So I went online to check what I'd written under mathematics and I'd blathed a few times. I wondered which one you meant. Lol. 100313 what's it to you? who go blather from