its the truth going by the way of Ancient Rome...crumbling from within. 000121
Q is what you mean that George the Younger or some other republican might be president? 000121
3s0t3r1c and we change the spelling to amerikkka
because life is forgotten here
video games credit card television
deprogramming function models acquiesce
brainwash autoeroticize collaminate
and we become the objective consciousness
revolution revolution revolution
bewildering bellows from the cornerstone prophet
these streets take you for a ride
if you willing to be subjective
marjorie They laid on the couch on Saturday night
Under an unzipped sleeping bag
Heads opposite the television’s blinking light
Watching the X-files and laughing at silent commercials
The show made her afraid
Reminding her of people she knew
Pentecostals, snakes, dancing
Sweating, singing, crying out to God
When she cringed, he held her.
And when she couldn’t watch anymore
She told him to tell her if anyone died
Or if anything else important happened
She turned on her side
Burying her face in his shoulder
While the screaming and singing continued
And he told her a woman had just given birth to snakes
She wouldn’t look.
The show ended and he turned the station
The Black Adder
British comedy for the American teenagers.
Laughing beneath an unzipped sleeping bag
Forgetting everything else for a while
Brad Proud to be an american? hardly. We don't have it bad here at all. Economy is good, standard of living is high... opportunities galore. But proud? America is seen as the bad guy the world over. that's hardly something to be proud of. 000310
BoofPixie america is all in the way they look at you when you're not here. 000311
god Horse With No Name
( America )

On the first part of the journey I was looking at all the life
There were plants and birds and rocks and things
There was sand and hills and rings
The first thing I met was a fly with a buzz
And the sky with no clouds
The heat was hot and the ground was dry
But the air was full of sound

I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la

After two days in the desert sun my skin began to turn red
After three days in the desert fun I was looking at a river bed
And the story it told of a river that flowed
Made me sad to think it was dead

You see I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la

After nine days I let the horse run free 'cause the desert had turned to sea
There were plants and birds and rocks and things
There was sand and hills and rings
The ocean is a desert with it's life underground
And a perfect disguise above
Under the cities lies a heart made of ground
But the humans will give no love

You see I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
[repeat fade]
Quiggz YES!!! AMERICA!!! AWESOME BAND! Saw 'em in concert, before the summer. 'twas great.
And their new album is pretty cool, too. (Well, relatively new)

"There was a time I knew
All that there was to know
No one could tel me that
I was wrong
I wasn't strong enough
To see where my weakness lay
The world that you hold so tight
Can slip away

And from Moment to Moment
Your life can change
There's a storm over the horizon
A sea no one can see

Somewhere around the bend
Right when you least expect
Someone can walk away
With no regrets
Be there an empty space
Break in a sacred trust
All of your shiny dreams
Turn to rust

Yes, from Moment to Moment
Your life can change
There's a storm over the horizon
A sea you can not see
Yes, from Moment to Moment
Promise me you'll never change
Promise me you'll stay the same
Promise me you'll never chaaaaaaaange

Yes, from Moment to Moment
Your life can change
There's a storm over the horizon
A sea you'll never see

Yet, from Moment to Moment
Your life can change
There's light where the sun is rising
The day after today
Promise me you'll never change
Promise me you'll stay the same
Promise me you'll never chaaaaaange

Every moment is a shining light
Every moment is a darkest night
Every moment gotta get it right
Every single moment"
Repeat fade
-America, "Moment to Moment"
retartedkidnameddamian america once meant something, but it lost itself in pop culture and politics. a forgotten dream. 010325
florescent light America is my home
and that means something.
retartedkidnameddamian its just an object. being "proud" of america is just false hopes nowadays. 010328
neomatrix We presently live in a nation where our president's grandfather made the gas chambers that the nazis use. We have a pay-per-vote congress. Corporations own presidential candidates like stocks. Our television consists of idiotic sitcoms and a show were people are awarded thousands of dollars for knowing whether the smirfs are blue. People watch others live lives on television rather than live one themselves. I see a future, I see the future Aldous Huxley saw, the future George Orwell saw, the future Terry Gilliam saw in Brazil, the future Bradbury presented in Fahrenheit 451. Anyday soon we will see the White Clowns marching across the television wall. We will see the books burned. We will watch as we are handed paperwork to leave our homes. Big brother will soon be watching you.

American dream? American nightmare.
Special K June 02, 2001 - 11:55 am, Northbound train, exiting Tortona

...There's an odd, indeterminate longing one feels on trains. Staring out the windows over hours and hours of landscape... What is it that I want right now? Land? Companionship? Home and a hot meal? Who knows, but there it is within me, that unrefined want.

Paul Simon wrote the archetypal travel song when he wrote America. Limited though it may be in geographic perspective, the misty, unsatisfied vagueries of the protagonist's emotions have never once failed me on any of my journeys in lifeliteral or otherwise. I know they speak to Joseph, too, sometimes (in weak moments) bringing him nearly to the point of tears. Aren't I hearing them even now?

"Kathy, I'm lost," I said, though I knew she was sleeping. "I'm empty and aching and I don't know why..."

Or maybe it's the more hopeful "...Michigan seems like a dream to me now." Isn't Firenze just a dream at this point? When was I there... last week? I can't recall it, and yet I can't forget. I dreamed I was in Firenze, at Orsanmichele. Or was it Santa Maria Novella? Or Santa Spirito? I awaken and I'm in Cortona, buying a dress, or in Siena, climbing a mountain, or Genova, gazing into a shark tank. Where am I now? A train, passing through Pavia. Soon I shall dream I am back in Venezia, and I'll wake up in Frankfurt, or in Georgia, where I shall kiss his cheeks and it will ALL have been a dream.
enriquecito GA does that to you, my dear. All that driving washes the beauty gently from life, the memory of those places fades away. Keep renewing those memories of something different, I always say. 010608
Dafremen I believe in America. I believe in everything it was meant to stand for. I believe our constitution was a well developed and well thought out document and if not allowed to be usurped would have kept us free indefinitely. It's too bad we forgot all about that.

Too bad.
enriquecito i live in a beautiful country. too bad about the people, the culture, the history, the media, the politics.... 010614
dB Land of the free, home of the brave! In God we trust!


17% of the american population though George W Bush was his father. 6% thought they were twins, and 24% will never understand what I just said.

America was supposed to be independant. It was supposed to be free, the home of democracy. All that shit.
Instead, it has infected the world. Consumerism and capitalism rules above all else. The Beatles may have been bigger than Jesus, but the American marketing people are bigger than the Beatles.
You have the right to bear arms, but at the cost of your right to walk the streets at night.
I can't believe it's still standing to tell the truth.
Casey I'm going to follow Simon and Garfunkel's idea and go look for it. 010614
dB Yeah, something about:

"America, where are you know
Don't you forget your sons and daughters".

or something along those line.

A pilgrimage. Like in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
In search of the American dream.
god monster. steppenwolf. 010614
Dafremen Actually DB, only .01424% of the population die each year as a result of our being a "gun culture". On the flip side history has shown that 100% of unarmed populations have been tyrannized at one time or another. 100%.

The success rate is slightly better with armed populaces. A government tends to think twice about BLATANTLY oppressing citizens who are capable of armed revolt. (If the British had thought the colonists were capable of armed revolt they wouldn't have been so blatantly oppressive in their policies...guaranteed.)

All firearm regulations benefit the state. NONE of them benefit you. Firearm registration does not keep criminals from committing violent acts with firearms..this is a FACT. Firearm registration makes the whereabouts of every LAW ABIDING citizen's firearms KNOWN to the state. (see how that in an insidious "oh sh*T that's sneaky!" sort of way huh?)

Let's say you ARE the victim of a violent crime involving a gun. Wait a minute...guess it's too LATE for the legislation to help you huh?

It's simple...there hasn't been a piece of gun control legislation put out there that restricts the military, or police authorities access to state of the art firepower. You think they're on your side right? Well they are...until they're told you're NOT on their side. Then they're just doing their jobs. Right?

Is that ok? What if what you are doing today is made illegal tomorrow? Suddenly your NOT on their side anymore.

Go one piece of gun control legislation that has benefitted you DIRECTLY...I wanna hear this.

Then I'll simply point to the Japanese elementary school attack, the Tylenol poisonings, the Unibomber, Oklahoma City Bombing, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffery Dahmer, the Japanese nerve gas attacks and ask you to explain to me WHAT DO GUNS HAVE TO DO WITH PEOPLE WANTING TO KILL EACH OTHER? A gun? Poison? A knife? A Car? A Bathtub full of water? A brick? A piece of rope? A can of lighter fluid and a match? A railroad spike? A flashlight? A chainsaw? A stick of dynamite? Fuel oil and fertilizer? My BARE hands?

You will NEVER succeed in controlling violence by controlling the TOOLS used to commit it. As long as aberrant minds desire to kill...they WILL find a way.

America's 2nd Amendment was NOT a barbaric outdated idea. It's just as relevent today as it was then.

For as long as it is possible to gain power by force, people will apply force to gain power. Whether you and I like it or not, taking the guns away will only make us what those laws are supposed to protect us from becoming: victims.

Some folx will say that it just leads to an escalating arms race where everyone tries to get a bigger gun than the other guy. But remember...the arms race is escalated by those who want to DOMINATE through force. Not by those who are simply trying to deter oppression. If I'm not trying to dominate, why would I need a bigger gun?

The minute you buy into the idea that gun control legislation will solve all of the problems in the world, you've completely bought into the propaganda that you've been fed by the mainstream media. Period.

P.S. Like I said...only 0.01424% of our population died deaths related to firearms. That includes police shootings, suicides, accidents and crimes. It's a small price to pay to protect some future generation's ability to defend themselves in the event that their government does what so many governments before have done: oppress it's people.

P.P.S. No, I do not own a gun...never have. I keep an oak table leg behind the door labelled "Attitude Adjuster".
I am not a Republican nor do I belong to the NRA. I just happen to believe that if you skip through life with the idea that everyone will play by the rules and that the government is your FRIEND, then you will certainly pay for your carefree perspective when the sh*t hits the fan. Be ever vigilant...that's all that is asked of me. It's the responsibility that comes with the privilege of being "free" and it's the only way to STAY free. You wanna hand over the keys to your ability to live your life your go right ahead. I for one will pass.
dB That has to be one of your best arguments yet. I'm not sure where you get your stats from, but I believe them.
I guess, coming from here where it's almost illegal for even the police to carry a gun, what I see from the US seems way out of control.
But think on this; there are 4.2 million people in NZ, right? And there are less than 10 gun related accidents per annum. That includes police, suicides, homicides, hunting accidents, everything. Having strict control seems t work quite well here.
Then again, someone did try to attack me with a chainsaw a few years ago.
It's human nature for people to kill each other, you are right there. I just can't understand how we are supposed to progress as a society when we still have these animal urges. It takes only one minor act before a crowd becomes a mob etc etc.
I guess this is trying to answer another, much bigger question other then that if gun control.
By the way, what did you think about the recent media event that was the execution of Timothy McVeigh? (did I spell that name right?)
Up yours... I like Coke and Pepsi. where is america miss?
why is it so far away?
why is it so big?
why are they rich?
why are they good looking?
why do the black people have guns?
why, why, why,
is Seven a true story or is he a fab actor?
"I am an emotional man"
well everybody loves him don't they!
no really watz up?
too hard being good looking?
well never mind hay friends are fun , I mean great.
ummm.. hello over der I can't spell do you mind?
I ummmmmm well ummmm don't quite know where I am, am I in a protection bubble That goes ping! find ya bloody ping pong ball ang bob ya uncle! protection wiv no real guns just water ones this time, rich kids!
All i want is a chopper bike and my skateboard back ... bugger off.
dB What the fuck? 010618
Dafremen I found the idea of doing a comparitive study of a comparably populated American state's gun related death statistics. Here's what I found...I used the first American state that I came across with a population comparable to that of New Zealand: Colorado. To prove that I wasn't trying to skew the results you'll be happy to know that Colorado has some of the LAXEST gun laws in this country. THey are as follows:

1. No licensing or registration requirements related to firearm purchase or possession.

2. No waiting period for purchase of handguns, shotguns, or rifles.

3. Handgun possession by persons less than 18 years of age is a misdemeanor. Exemptions from the prohibition on handgun possession by persons less than 18 years of age exist for attendance at a hunter's or firearms safety course, target practice at a shooting range, and other similar activities.

4. It is a felony for any person to knowingly or recklessly provide a handgun to any person less than 18 years of age.

5. It is a felony for any parent or guardian to knowingly or recklessly provide a handgun to a juvenile when that parent is aware that a substantial risk exists that such juvenile will use the handgun to commit a felony. Any parent aware of such a risk has a duty to make reasonable efforts to prevent the commission of the offense.

6. There are no age restrictions related to possession of rifles or shotguns.

I think we can both agree that if there was a test case to be made this is a fair place to start no?

Ok now for the statistics:

New Zealand - 3,846,377
Colorado - 4,301,261(more people - I thought you said new zealand was 4.2 million? OH well it's a moot piece of information as you will soon see.)

Total Land Area:
New Zealand - 266,171 Square miles on 2 Islands
Colorado - 103,718 square miles(less land area...looks like you got more folx packed into less space here.)

Number of Firearm Related Deaths:
New Zealand - You estimate 10 in a year.
Colorado - At one every 54 hours I estimate 162 people each year.

Ok so let's do the math shall we?

10 is 0.0002% of 3,846,377 people.
So 0.0002% of New Zealand's population died as a result of the presence of firearms. New Zealand has practically NO guns and EXTREMELY strict gun laws which allow almost NOONE to posses a firearm legally. Correct?

162 is 0.003% of 4,301,261 people.
So 0.003% of Colorado's population died as the result of the presence of firearms. Colorado has very lax gun laws which tend NOT to infringe upon the citizen's right to keep and bear arms. They have approximately 500,000 more people packed into less than HALF of the land area. Yet the total number of lives saved each year at the cost of the citizen's security against governmental tyranny? Approximately 152 people every year or less then 1/100th of one percent of either your country's or Colorado's respective populations.

These are the facts. Most gun control arguments are based on emotional arguments or APPEALS TO OUR MORALITY.
They are based on "shocking" numbers like "32,000 people died in the United States last year!" which are NEVER placed into the context of statistical data.(Such as the population of the United States is around 250 million making 32,000 around 1/100th of one percent of our population. EAch life is precious they say. True, why is it that the deaths of 0.01424% of our population disturbs them...but the thought of an entire future population of enslaved Americans doesn't concern them one f*cking bit? Who do you think would suffer more? The average American living with LOTTERY ticket odds of being a gun death statistic? Or some future citizen of a dictatorship or oppressive oligarchy?

There really is nothing to be argued about here which is why it never fails to suprise me when folx start agruing about it. The facts are clear while the rhetoric is spotty at best and overly charged with emotion.(Emotion is the propagandist's favorite tool.)
Polt Am I a "bad" American?

I like big cars, big boats, big houses, and naturally, big breasts on good-looking women.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some middle-aged governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.

I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or just piss me off.

I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As a matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English.

My father and grandfather did not die in
vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come here and disrespect ours.

I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in English, see the previous paragraph.

I don't think just because you were not
born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, c-store, trinket shop, motel or any other damn thing.

I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. However, I respect your right to.

I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or McDonald's.

I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words "light", "lite" or "fat-free" on the package.

I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.

I know wrestling is fake.

I've never owned, nor was, a slave. And most of our fore-fathers weren't wealthy enough to own one, either.

I believe a self-righteous liberal with
a cause is a lot more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.

I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red-blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime then you should lose that right. A rubber band and a paper clip is a dangerous weapon in the hands of someone with malicious intent.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it ticks you off, invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your political buddy who invented the Internet to help you.

We don't need more laws. We need to enforce the ones we already have.

I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid, spank his ass, and say, "NO."

I think tattoos and piercing are fine, if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement or force me to look at them.

I have normal sex. I've never met a "homosexual". I don't care what their sexual preferences are, but that does not entitle them to claim "discrimination" nor empower them to receive anything from the government. They can keep that part of their lives private, away from work.

I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid.

I will not be frowned upon, looked down upon, nor be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. This country allows me that right.

I will not conform nor compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings.

I am sick to death of "Political Correctness".

I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe it. I guess by their definition, I AM a bad American, but then again, I'm damn proud of it.
DannyH Er Daffy, I think you were comparing incidents of any kind in New Zealand with deaths in America in your comparative study. Can you do one that includes serious injury as well. 010729
Dafremen Why certainly. Of course if avoidance of serious injury is a justification for stricter gun control, perhaps we should follow this up with a comparison of chainsaw related injuries and farm implement injuries between the countries as well. Let's include serious injuries inflicted on innocent victims by knives, razors and baseball bats. Poisons and pesticides too. Not to mention serious injuries caused by misusing prescription medications.

Should bike helmets and knee-pads be manadatory? Let's pass laws making it so. In FACT let's consider the possibility of wiping out ALL causes of serious injury WORLDwide. All of them.

We'll start with the NUMBER ONE cause of serious injuries worldwide:

Ok well we can't exactly outlaw being stupid...exactly anyhow. So what ARE the most common causes of serious injury and death? Hmmm I guarantee automobiles are way up there near the top. With common diseases being the top 5 or so. I'm willing to bet cold hard cash that worldwide, deaths caused by private citizens' with firearms isn't even in the top 25.

As for what I was comparing:
I compared the estimated 10 firearm related deaths in New Zealand (that Db mentioned) to the handgun deaths in the state of Colorado.

If X percent of all firearm incidents result in death and that number of people is X percent of the population. Then don't expect to see different results simply because you put in injuries. You'll certainly see higher numbers. But it's not the number of people you look at when deciding on a policy that will affect an entire population. You look at the percentage of that population that will be affected. Once again I predict you will find that the percentage is below 1% of both NZ's and Colorado's populations. I will dig up the data and post it here.
^^ Correction I said "handgun deaths in Colorado" that should have read "gun-related deaths in Colorado." 010730
DannyH You miss my point Daffy. dB didn't say "deaths" he said "incidents" I was merely suggesting you weren't comparing like with like. 010802
The Truth

Are we a land of corporate slaves who's government keeps us content by hooking us on quests for instant gratification and supplying our fix through television?

Does television poison our thoughts by infusing our desires with lust and greed, oh and violence?

Does this poison keep us miserably content so that we are happily zombified in front of the radiation box, yet never satisfied with what we have, causing us to work harder and longer to reach the next level of dissapointment, until the burden of percieved failure becomes so cumbersome that we break and take as many people down with us as possible?

Yes, for some. No for others.

boycott_television and you won't regret it.

America... "God's_Country" according to U2 and this weird vision I had last weekend.
Dafremen Agreed Danny, I hadn't noticed that before, particularly since I had brought up gun related deaths and assumed that he was comparing like with like...which he wasn't.

In any event, my original point stands. You cannot remove violence by removing the tools used to commit violent acts. You can only remove violence by replacing or eradicating violent tendencies. That means working on the PEOPLE from an early age. Not talking about how GUNS are bad, but how violence in general is bad. Not talking about how guns kill people, talking about how irresponsible action kills people. Not convincing everyone to give up their guns, convincing everyone to give up killing.

You will never regulate this problem out of existence without putting entire nations in jeopardy of being oppressed by unscrupulous individuals with power.

And for as LONG as there are people that can make guns, there will always be someone willing to buy them. If they have em, and you don't and they want what you or yours have, then they get it. If you insist that the government's job is to protect you, then don't complain when the government starts deciding HOW it will protect you and WHAT it will protect you from as well. Nor should you be TOO suprised when the government decides that it's citizenry(or it's domestic policy)needs protection from YOU.

That's why I say:

Stop the violence, but leave the guns alone.
Dafremen Ok Danny, for you I found the quote. It's from the Australian Bureau of Statistics and believe it or not I found it on an Anti-Gun site whose link I will leave here for all that would like to read some numbers.(Whats 9% of 437? 437 was the total number of firearm related deaths in all of Australia, the number dropped by 9% after they enacted STRICT new gun ownership laws which affect every Australian. What was the net savings there mate? 39 lives spared and millions of Australians doomed to be oppressed and exploited at some unforseen time in the future by some unforseeable administration? Pint of bitters sez it's between the end of this century and the middle of the next one. We'll drink em both now just cuz we won't be there to see it. (Not that I'd want to. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Don't take freedom for granted is all I'm saying, more bullets have been spent attaining and preserving freedom than have been spent in the commissions of all of the crime in recorded history.

"Although armed robberies increased by nearly 20%, the number of armed robberies involving a firearm decreased to a six-year low."

-- Recorded Crime, Australia, 1998. Australian Bureau of Statistics, Jun 1999.

May I rest my case now....PLEASE?!

(That's a link to the million mom march site. They want stricter gun control laws. They need to hide the facts better, although they do give it a good try by using just percents and fractions without giving baseline numbers to determine what the percent or fraction means. They gave one or two actual numbers from which the evidence became less than startling. It became downright anticlimactic. I applaud their dedication at least.)
dB Daffy, you may rest your case. It is a good one, and somewhat valid. I'll never totally agree with you on this, but let's say I am more in agreement now than before.
With the same token, what is one life worth? How much money would it cost to get ALL guns out of circulation? Would the expense be worth one life?
I think I have used this before, but I'll use it again.

New Zealand has about 340 deaths on the road every year. The government are spending $300,000,000 fixing the roads.
There are 540 - 550 deaths from suicide every year, yet they are only spending just over one million on that.
How do they justify the lack of expense? "Well that's different. They want to die." said the national party leader.
To add insult to injury, New Zealand has the highest suicide rate in the western world (and we even beat most third world countries).

We are talking life here. What is ONE life worth Daffy? If ANY effort can be made to potentially save just one life, then why not do it. Regulations do not come into it. Money does not come into it. Control, politics or policies... they mean nothing if they are not protecting life.
dB Daffy, you may rest your case. It is a good one, and somewhat valid. I'll never totally agree with you on this, but let's say I am more in agreement now than before.
With the same token, what is one life worth? How much money would it cost to get ALL guns out of circulation? Would the expense be worth one life?
I think I have used this before, but I'll use it again.

New Zealand has about 340 deaths on the road every year. The government are spending $300,000,000 fixing the roads.
There are 540 - 550 deaths from suicide every year, yet they are only spending just over one million on that.
How do they justify the lack of expense? "Well that's different. They want to die." said the national party leader.
To add insult to injury, New Zealand has the highest suicide rate in the western world (and we even beat most third world countries).

We are talking life here. What is ONE life worth Daffy? If ANY effort can be made to potentially save just one life, then why not do it. Regulations do not come into it. Money does not come into it. Control, politics or policies... they mean nothing if they are not protecting life.
Dafremen I think I agree with you one hundred percent. If it were JUST about SAVING lives then by all means let's do it. It's not that simple, unfortunately. We have to look at the likely consequences of our actions before we act. What is one life worth Db, what is one lifetime spent in oppressive political slavery worth? Indeed a difficult choice, we only choose to save THESE lives because the bodies lie cold and stiff before us. The lives that we do not see lie stiff and cold in the future. Their corpses are more numerous and the lives lost more dearly fought for and less amply rewarded by than our victims' lives were. But no less cherished by those who lived them or those dear ones left behind. Don't forget them, Db. Don't forget that future generation, because that does REAL justice to the ideal that is peaceful coexistence. 010814
db My dear friend, Daffy. We are already living in political slavery. Not just political, but our very thoughts have been trained to interpret what we see around us as freedom.
We are already slaves. We are already slaves.
Dafremen Thus sang they as they walked into chains. 010814
Annie111 america confuses me greatly. god, sometimes, i wish that it were a person so I could just smack it in the face. i hate the conservative crap that litters this country. I hate your pro-life shit. I hate your death penalty. i hate the way you don't give a fuck about anyone else on this planet, and the selling of moldy cheese in the corner store on 5th and Franklin is more important to Eyewitness News than the other crap going on just across the pond.

I love it when it snows, and there is just a white blanket and we all get put to bed. I love the friends i have made here. i love bill clinton. i love the simpsons. I love america's sarcasm, its defiance and reckless abandon. I love its youth and bravado.

i don't get patriotic when they play the star spangled banner, how can i? i wasn't born here, and i never lived here until three years ago. i miss australia a lot sometimes, but america is just fine for me, although i wish like hell i could change it. It's a win-lose situation though. What i would change would make someone else damn angry.
ClairE And you wouldn't want to make an red_blooded American angry...I love America, but I love New_York more.

rock on god and special k for mentioning songs. I don't like Lenny_Kravitz's American_Woman. ick, bad cover.

Polt, I find it hard to believe you're never met a homosexual, unless "homosexual" is supposed to mean someone who only wears rainbow or something. Have you met someone left_handed?
Look up the odds.

America is not the answer but it fills a place in the global structure. So we let it be.
It's an ideal, an dream, an idea above those former two.
So we deify the Constitution.
ClairE You're too big for me to know. 011213
no You'll be participating in your manmade communism, and there won't be a fucking thing you can do about it. Fuck you, America. 020112
*~K still a sweet little piece of land, no matter how fucked it's politics.
and hella better food than europe.
take it from me, i KNOW.
lulie better food... better tasting or better quality. i know europe doesn't want our rotting meat because of all the crap we feed/inject into our animals and they really don't want our generically altered grains, kind of scared of that. and there's nothing like a german beer - if you can get use to drinking it at room temperature. after 6 or 7 of them you don't really mind at all.
but you are so right about our politics!
lizard Does it make me a bad person to want to go around, with a black marker, and cross out the "B" in all the 'God Bless America" signs? Or how about pry those damned sticker flags off every single monster-SUV I can find? 020712
di luce America

The times chimeI told you soin the conspiracy theorists’ ears, ringing of One World Governments, the anti-Christ, and a seven year peace interim. My world is a fucked up place. It’s just giant oceans of mistrust with islands of primitive patriarchy thriving in pockets of peace. The isolated cultures of every continent are no better off than the big city monkeys screeching for fear of a banana shortage. It’s all a big, dark jungle of discontent.

I once read that great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and mediocre minds discuss people. I have no idea why that matters here but it seems to coincide with everything I’m thinking but cannot express. If I could express them then people would probably grade me an average mind. Fair enough. Fare enough.
minnesota_chris we have a weird relationship with chemicals in this country. The farmers spray them on, and the wealthy people refuse to eat them, so they buy chemical free foods. But if that same wealthy person has trouble coping with life, they DEMAND chemicals to fix their problems. 030322
ozzy bin hidin The land of the pee and the home of the depraved. 030730
delial I don't get why people call it america anyway.

There's north america and south america

Mexico. Canada. the UNITED STATES _of_ america.

And that's what I call it.

The united_states

though it sure seems more divided lately
not important It saddens me, the way I feel about this country. I would love to run for political office and try to help it, but half of the time I want to move away. The current regime terrifies me. How can there be people who actually feel safer with a Department of Homeland Security? I like to counter spin by creating my very own personal spin on everything. For example, the current U.S. conflict is the second stage of the Great Religious Wars of the Bush Era. Like everyone, I suppose, I wish we had a government truly interested in only the welfare of its people. Handgun legislation? Ba! Guns don't kill people... CARS kill people! And the enviroment! (Sorry for revealing myself as a flaming liberal by mentioning that.) But is there going to be any legislation proposing effective cross-country public transportation? Of course not. Not when the automotive lobby is one of the largest, wealthiest in the country. Not to even mention oil... No. No, actually, the forces that be are so influencial that it won't even be mentioned. Considered. We could use more original thinking in our government. We could stand to keep our noses out of other countries business unless they (or the UN... the what?) ask us for help. Certainly we have enough issues at home to keep us busy. Or, you know, we could stick to our side of the globe a bit. Take a good, long look at Haiti sometime. They wouldn't mind our help. But since there is no economic advantage or political movement behind helping them, no one cares. So where do we get off claiming altuistic motives in "helping" Iraq? Ah, I have allowed myself to wax political... sorry, but I am not allowed to discuss politics at dinner... 030801
Dafremen Taking_it_to_the_streets.

DO something. Create change.

Apathy is treason.
win Completely INGSOC; I have to congratulate you. I fact I can feel you watching me now.

" Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me"
skye the biggest terrorist in the world. 031107
coffeeboy a forlorn housewife
begins to clean up the pile
of pessimism.

beautiful and grand
was the bank building. although
I hated thee in it.

a child chokes. but not
as much as the other. exeunt.
such ugly colors!

we tire greatly of
cyberpunk. climb into a
skyscraper with me.

in the sun I stare.
everyone blamed the police.
and the others died.

love the sinner; hate the food.
dakota I love you America
Don't let them take away your flame
Or but their blame
On you...
oldephebe so about 43,000 people die every from guns...and that's a conservative estimate..not a factoid to take comfort in by any means 040221
oE die every YEAR...harumph! 040221
cinzento Is there such a thing as an American who isn't red-blooded? Why must these Americans be specifically red-blooded? Why does blood have to come up? I think Dafremen was right about one thing: You take away the firearms from the people, but allow the government and the military and the police to keep them, then you've created a situation that lead to the people being unable to protect themselves against the people who control them. And if you can't protect yourself, what can you do? So maybe leave the firearms alone. There's more to America than guns, I'm sure. They're just what some people in the media want us to concentrate on. 040221
stork daddy forget all of this questioning of our politics or our implicit philosophies. the real question we dress the coolest? 040221
cinzento Of course. Somebody's got to do it. 040221
oE i can't go any where w/o my sensible shoes and dockers of an indeterminate hue and of course my equally muted polo shirts. 040221
have_a_little_faith I LOVE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!! 040225
bird i love it, too, but that doesn't necessarily mean i love, like, or can even tolerate who's running it lately 040225
quotree "America is like the guy at the party nobody likes even though he brings the cocaine." 040301
an american werewolf in sydney sucks 040421
an american werewolf in sydney sucks 040421
Smurf I've read every post and I notice one thing. one problem with all your statistics. The Problem is that they are just that, Statistics. Statistics are in nature, inaccurate.

I love the USA, I love the sunshine in southern california, I love the girls in honolulu and I love the sunsets in Ohio.

It's too bad I can't see the sun because it's blocked by the smoke.

It's too bad I can't find the pretty girls because they're all obese.

It's too bad I can't watch the sunset because the Colt Factory is in the way.

I think I'm going to go back to Canada now.
p2 nice generalizations

that's as ignorant
as assuming canada is all
snow and moose
and canadians are all
hockey players, lumberjacks, and mounties
or is that actually true?
Strideo stereotypes.

I especially like the part about the Colt factory. hilarious
Smurf Accually Every canadian I know is a lumberjack or hockey player. But I think that's just BC and not all of Canada 040423
aw damn ...can suck it! 040424
Smurf Be calm p2. it was meant for humor 040501
lamo damn yanks need to get off their bloody guns! what fuckheads!!! let me see people keep shooting each other! what shall we do? i know!! arrest everyone that looks different or who has been to iraq and send them to cuba and then keep them there, without charging them with anything! why you ask, because we can!! we are america and we think everyone loves us!! (insert evil laugh here)
silly im a canadian... whats up guys 040625
andru235 the discussion of the nation
was all about guns,
then nation that first
used plutoniums

the place of great freedoms
said 'no' to some lovers
yes to the weapons
no to the brothers

CEOs riches
382 times the worker
that's quite a lot
for a well-fed rich porker

the word, when in spanish
("a me rica", thus)
means "to me the riches"
a bridge with no truss

one asks if the aim
was noble or vicious
the brotherhood founding it
being rather suspicious

the ones rebelled against
(the English, you fool)
run by the same brotherhood:
an internal duel?

france, england, america
seventeen seventy
same inner workings
conducted with levity

and now centuries
after king george the third
we find that our leader
is now george the turd

a scandal a minute
while speaking of honor
would never be worthy
of the clan McO'Connor

trained by his father
a CIA man
i saw what Bush's grandpa's friends
unleashed upon Japan

and yet there's a beauty
rainbow after a storm
for in this great nation
there's no racial norm

there are not the fences
between cross and crescent
instead we have great walls
between wealth and peasant

where is it going?
one can only guess
frankly this nation
seems near to a mess

it's always so sad
to see kids fail potential
yet, see other nations:
as mentors, detrimental

so maybe we now
having paved over tribesmen
at last see the senators
and CEO who bribes them

having said this
let me say i have hope
ooops - my mistake, they picked
president lycanthrope
skinny the truth behind many events here will never be known, slurred with tweaker paranoia and family values agenda. the birth of an archetype, illusion within an illusion, deja vu, deja vu, deja vu. 070711
skinny fabric so beautiful, when you wear it you're a million miles away...

a niche within a niche,

color schemes within a great scheme,

a single hair splintered into infinite tongues
dafremen Fuck guns!!! Let's do it the British way. Meat Cleavers ROCK!!!! Fuck killing you with a gun. A psychotic American brother like is just as likely to take you out with a meat cleaver or an icepick as a gun. We've been a gun and knife toting, often prison-bound child of this country for awhile.

There are no registration laws or licensing laws related to MEAT CLEAVERS OR SWORDS.

You asked for this gory..bloody..shit motherfuckers. Ewww.

Ok ok...let's be reasonable. Being stuck in a non-stop drama with the executive shelf-stockers that came before you is DEFINITELY the path to mechanized riches. Glory hole it, mutherfuckers.

Here's what I see:

The same short-sighted groups/individuals making a person feel great if they stock shelves efficiently.

Can lazy, self-indulgent people work any harder to try to make themselves seem hard working?
epitome of incomprehensibility You know, it's harder to kill someone accidentally with a knife. If someone kills me, I'd prefer that they MEAN it. Actually, I'd prefer that nobody kill me at all, because I'm scheduled to die of cancer at around 80 (I've checked - I may have to push the reservation back a little, though, since I have things to do) but in all seriousness, I don't see how guns are an essential element of freedom, any more than cars, or flags, or, I dunno, paper clips. Let people vote on whether they want more restrictions on them or not. But neither of our countries seem to want people to decide things.

"America" is two continents anyway, and what's relevant or historical in one place may not be in another. Within the United States there are many different cultures and priorities as well.

This is more for Doar: ALL nationalism is degenerate and unnecessary! But cute. You must admit flags are pretty.
dafremen When we say "let's let people VOTE on taking away the 2nd Amendment" we're speaking for US..NOW. That does nothing for people 100 years from now and certainly doesn't give voice to any concerns THEIR present crises may have at that future time. They may have needs of guns. Until the government has no military or police force..citizens should keep guns.

If nothing else, boundaries and privately owned firearms slow the spread of totalitarianism. Let's evolve a little bit before we take away these simple checks.
e_o_i But in a sense, those who insist on the exact wording of the 2nd Amendment are like people who take the Bible literally, and want to put into place the letter of the law, not the spirit.

Maybe this comparison is unfair. I'll make a silly one instead... here you are...

If chickens had been instrumental in the American Revolution and the 2nd Amendment was thus about the right of every US citizen to keep chickens (maybe not concealed chickens, though) wouldn't that be something people would want to change, given that chickens are, say, difficult to keep around in urban settings?

Maybe I'm just being belligerent, since in a sense I can't speak for your place, just for mine. I know the country I live in could give more power to the voting public rather than Parliament (and what's up with the Senate, anyway? no one is elected, just appointed) possibly in the form of referendums on important issues. I know that here, anyway, that would do more here than giving people freer access to guns. Of course, yours is a different history, and I've got to give the American revolution some credit for setting Canada a precedent for self-rule, or else we might still be British North America. Who knows. And of course Congress is a different set-up than either Parliament or the Senate, though there are some similarities.

Anyway, why not transcend this nationalist viewpoint once in a while? I'm speaking to myself as well...
dafremen Let's say the government starts sending out paramilitary police wearing cool enforce their new "good clean, convenient, efficient, perfect, profitable society" policies, and you think this is ok. They get rid of all of the inconvenient chickens and roosters and clean up the streets. The graffiti disappears, the trash is nonexistent. Then you start hearing rumors, but don;t quite believe you blow them off. Until you see the cop blowing the 15 year old's brains out with a sawed-off chicken and realize that there's not much you, your family, your neighbors, your community or your country can do to stop it. Get rid of the chickens of ALL authorities and abolish armed forces worldwide and I'm down with giving up the right to keep and bear a chicken, sword, gun, tank or other means I feel is necessary to keep my people safe.


BTW, I don't own a gun or intend to right now. It's nice to know it's an option. (And I'm a damned good shot.)
e_o_i I think public awareness and power to influence how our countries are run might help prevent a military/police coup from happening in the first place.

Failproof? No. But what is?

You can make a clause about a citizens' right to bear arms, with the intent of curbing government power, but that's essentially guns against guns. You need more than that. Luckily your country has more its historical arsenal than just weapons.


Besides, crossbows are more badass.
what's it to you?
who go