goths ~gez~ people despise them i do not see why. a goth saved my girlfriend from being harassed. rock on goths, i only wish i could get close enough to thank you personally 020820 ... ~gez~ going to be one in my latest campaign to be majorly noticed 021124 ... stork daddy they'd have you believe on the tele that gothic chicks are all slim morticia addams and curvaceious elviras, or else wickedly subtle dangers like wednesday addams. it was only later i found out that most of them were fat angsty teens. and that's when i really fell in love with them. 021125 ... sarah goths are the bestest. 021125 ... misstree lady of pain oh gawd, could you be any less *dark?* 021126 ... michelle j i am a goth but tecnically to say your one is not to be one. So i am called a goth. yes we do take the bad rep and i wish you people would go fork yourselfs were people too. what are you afraid to talk to us oh dear lord you might acctually find a friend 030120 ... misstree wears white to goth nite technically, m'dear, there are plenty of uber-gothy types who are quite proud to admit that they're goth. not just weekender types, either... they're dark and proud. :) to deny that you're goth may be the less goth thing to do... but i lost the chart with the point system on it, so fuckitall. ;) 030120 ... Kristopher I like a lot of the music, but I'm not a goth. . . I wear MY black on the inside. 030121 ... stephen patrick morrisseys evil twin "i wear black on the outside because black is howi feel on the inside" 030121 ... quotree "i may have angst, but i'm not going to take it out on my clothing" -j-sun 030121 ... stork daddy i like playing castlevania video games...does that count? and i listen to johnny cash sing man in black at least once a week. ooh and i walk alone and night and look into people's windows...am i in yet? 030121 ... Kristopher Hmmm, depends. Are you playing 'Symphony of the Night'? *ha ha ha* And I don't know about Johnny Cash, but I recently heard that he did a cover of Depeche Mode's "Personal Jesus" How cool is the Man in Black?! Don't get me wrong, I like his old stuff better. *hee* 030122 ... misstree is everywhere you want to mope well, i've got enough goth in me to be labled as one (though most people insist i'm a hippiegoth, gypsy breed), and i love castlevania and johnny cash. send in $30 and i can mail you your GothCard and membership packet right away. For just another $20 (total $50), you will recieve the Ebony GothCard and a free gift bat to show we appreciate our loyal members. For $100, you get the UberEbony GothCard, a coffin, a skinny little boyfriend, girlfriend, or androgynefriend, and a list of all local 24-hour diners, clubs to bitch about the music at, cemetaries to take artsy pictures at, and liquor stores so that you can get drunk and forget that you're supposed to be depressed. oops, that turned into a blah blah blah by accident. :) 030805 ... shivers i luv goths well i shouldnt say that because i dont personally know any. i mean, i luv that way the waltz around like nothing matters im probably tied in for first for the most "gothic" in my town of 2500 ppl. yes that right, glorious rural saskatchewan. thats in canada by the way... and all i wear is a black leather chocker with silver studs im in a derperate need a culture 030805 ... shivers oops, not like nothing matters, just that what other ppl think doesnt matter if it feels good, do it 030805 ... Spider I am one We r not all peaches and cream darlings, we have lots of issues we needa work out! later all 030911 ... sf_retard posers who envy me oh, is my head big? *which head??* hu... i dotn wear black, but i'm contentedly fucked up am i just mentally ill? such commonality 030911 ... misstree GOTHS ARE NOT ISSUE-RIDDEN ANGST BOMBS. they are some of the most well-adjusted people i know, mostly happy, self-confident, and creative. GOTHS JUST LIKE DEAD THINGS. if they seem moody, it's usually because they're too artistic and passionate for their own good. don't mean to yell. i just hate generalizations. cutting myself off before i bust out the rolled up newspaper and start thwacking... 030911 ... sf_retard goth as fashion? morbid? but why? i wear black on the outside i dont have much in my life 030912 ... ferret i'm a gunk and proud of it!f 030913 ... ferret i'm a gunk and proud of it!f 030913 ... somerandomrockchick fuck they r awesome....i mean yea im not one...more along the lines of a rock chick, but goths.Fukin awesome..i love their style..and the look on their face as if they dont give a fuck. Yea i know there must br more to it then the looks of them....who knows what the problem is.....all i ave to say is keep goin hard...and i fukin love mudvayne and deftones!!!! 031002 ... Ni what makes someone goth? ive always wondered that... 031003 ... once again Goth... originally a Germanic tribe, was just used to describe anything that wasn't Roman (i.e. normal). applied to a novel by Horace Walpole that was filled with scary things, blood and gore, mysterious people, desolation, terror, doom, gloom and suchlike. This is where the word we use gets all it's not so happy connotations. But really I figure you could just say you were Goth and get away with it, without wearing any of the traditional black garb. Think it's more of a mental state, or group of interests. Could be wrong. 031003 ... misstree it's all about the music. except when it's not. it's a dark esthetic, unless that's not your kind of thing. it's fangoria while it's marquis_de_sade, it's vinyl while it's velvet, it's flowing while it's crunch, it's joyous expression while it's sobbing despair, it's pretention while it's self-parody. most goths also wonder what makes someone goth. those that think they know are wrong. the only thing i can truly say is that it is a tribe, replete with diverse individuals with unspeakable commonalities. 031003 ... Cherry_Springwater OOOooohhhhhh! Moody, moody, moody. Goths are odd in a funsensical way to me. I don't think the true goth actually exists because he would have shriveled into a prune in a bit of either self loathing or cynical despair. Most of the "goths" I know live normal lives. The only two things they seem to have in common are a night at the local club and some sadness that they each express in a different way. I just want to hug and kiss and love every one of them...but they'd probably be thrown for a loop over the affection. Not to mention a good portion of them would slap me silly for trying. 031003 ... misstree heh... they're not as difficult to hug and kiss than you might think, especially if you get some righteous cleavage going... and even more especially in my town, which back in the day (and almost kind of again) was very open and friendly and nice and whee!, all kinds of friendly... even nowadays a lot of them will even let you bite and occasionally smack them, if you ask proper... 031003 ... ChiselMouth You are a mopey lot, arent you? 031111 ... max people treat goths like shit! i mean i go to the store and me and my friends are goth and we cant even get the time of day. when some one first says goth alot of preppy people think oh therre so bad they dont deserve to live but we do. we have as much right to live as much as those little preppys do, if not that then more. 031121 ... Scabed Angel Yeah i agree with max us goths do deserve the right to live and we do get treated like shit but that still doesnt give us the right to treat others np less then they treat us, we are people too just as much as they are so just take it from experience dont snoop down to thier level of critisism. 031206 ... Scabed Angel i mean, look at the nongoths, they called me a Satan worshiper, a demonist, and a Vampire and shit like that (and to tell ya im the only gothy at my school) i dont blab back and shit cause i know how it feels to get called names. so i just brush it off and walk away cause that is the shit that gives goth its bad reputation 031206 ... Scabed Angel So dont lable other people cause they arnt in the same scene as us goths. And in my opinion goth is (just as the germanic trib that tried to rule over the romans) as most poeple think, is not a group of rebelious people, in my vision i think goth is a scene, a subculture that adopted its name from someone that tryed to discribe the subcultre(a subculture of punk) and labled us as goths after the trib. that is my opinion while i researched it 031206 ... Scabed Angel but i also think that goth these days in my opinion, i think that teens become goth to show thier individuality and to show rebelion, like they think that if a parent or a peer doesnt like one thing one thing they wear and tells them not to wear it that they should just keep wearing or doing that same inparticulare thing just to show dominence that they dont have to listen to that person, but those are just problemed teens. there is no true deffinition, people just have thier own opinions of goth and its reason of being. 031206 ... smurfus rex The goths are usually the ones I DON'T have to worry about on a packed Saturday night. It's almost always the other mallrats and street urchins who give me headaches. The crowd may swell around Hot Topic, but it almost never gets rowdy, unlike the one that gathers near the Skatepark. 031207 ... Scabed Angel What are you talking about? 031210 ... Scabed Angel goths arnt rowdy they just get the picture from peole who dont know what the hell they are talking about, and only look at us from the outside in. 031210 ... scabed Angel we are ratherpacifists. at least i am. 031210 ... misstree goth as a descendent of punk is debated to this day, and gothdom has certainly evolved enough over the past two decades that it is distinctly a subculture in its own right, rather than a spinoff. the definition is different to every person, but the one nearly unifying factor is the music. for some it's darkwave, others industrial, some melodic, some metal, but that's the most commonly accepted central point, from the debates i've had. there is also shared esthetics and a million other little generalizations, but really, trying to nail down what goth is is like trying to ascribe a single color to a bucket of sand--look at each grain, and you will see infinite variation. (or maybe that's just with lake_michigan; my experience with large bodies of water is rather limited.) 031210 ... blown cherry Speaking most generally, I do have a sort of a thing for the goth look, and I have to admit that my spiked collar doesn't make it out of my closet anywhere near as often as I'd like. He said that had I fallen in with the right crowd, I would have been either a goth or a punk, and I felt rather inclined to agree. But failing the right crowd being present, I fell in with a bunch of the most valuable friends I could ask for, and though none of us really belong in the same crowd, hell, we barely belong in similar crowds, we belong together, and so my punk &or goth aspirations lie shelved on most days, but happily not neglected on the rest. 031211 ... zeke visigoths? 031211 ... falling_alone i'm not allowed to wear much black (how badass am i?!) *sigh*...i think my mum has a fear of me turning goth...i think i'm too cheerful at times though...the black is just substituted for blue tho... just call me an outcast, misfit, loser, or dork....i think loser works out just fine... 031212 ... Zach You don't have to be a depressed fellow to be a goth, or wear black. My mother was the same way, but I just started working black into my garb slowly. Start with pants, and after a month or so break out the black shirt, and take it from there. As for the mood, it's a common misperception that all goths are sad and mopey. I'm one of two goths in my area, and we both have a great time, but the misconception of haughtiness is just something thought up by the mob. 040110 ... superleni some of the best things about goths: they love to dress up. many have a fine sense of style. their image wins them both respect and disdain; and isolation as they choose to be other! and then complain about it... so contrary and contradictory. they tend to have wicked senses of humour. they are all brave to be so 'look at me'. and some are scared. and, of course, the music's great and the clubs are the most civilised i've ever been to. but i think THE best thing about goth is that it is assertively not normal (though creates its own kind of normal), and the world needs recognition and acceptance and celebration of abnormality (well, difference) so badly that any voluntary blatantly "other" culture is fantastic. and goth especially for being so *anti*. it is the epitome of manufactured, committed *not* and contradiction. - i think that's part of why many goths deny being goth...to be named is to be pinned down - for an "anti" culture, to be true to that anti-ness, you must only be defined by what you are not. to positively be something is too thorough a contradiction of your general rejectionary existence. so, yay! such general adulation of anything does seem most ungothly, so my apologies dear highly esteemable goths, but i reckon its nice to know you're appreciated too. 040110 ... RoXXXie I went to waffle house with some friends at about 1 am one night, and the waiter, who was quite flamboyant, said "excuse me, ma'am, can i ask you a question?" i nodded and he said "are you a gothic?" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! so maybe that means i sorta am, i dunno, but i hope not. someone should post some kinda test so i could find out 040111 ... u24 it's not 'a gothic' you can't have 'a gothic', just like you can't have 'a stylish', it has to be 'a gothic -something-'. it's an adjective, not a noun. grr. 040111 ... RoXXXie no shit, i know that, maybe you should let that homosexual gentleman at waffle house know. 040111 ... Scabed Angel I agree totally with supperleni. And plzs dont make fun of homosexuals, some of my freinds are one. 040112 ... Scabed Angel One thing I like about goths is that they are so open minded and (I am not intiminated by them) I feel very comfortable around them they make you feel comfortable and welcome. and are not as hostile as other groups. 040112 ... RoXXXie i wasnt making fun of homosexuals, i simply stated that the gentleman was a homosexual and was flamboyant. i have quite a few friends that happen to be homosexual as well, and homosexual doesn't seem to be a deragatory term to me. 040112 ... Scabed Angel Ok then, Im sorry. I just don't like people making fun of something they dont understand. Also my friends have enough stuff to deal with and the last that they need is to be picked on by someone they dont even know. So im sorry bout jumping at you about that. 040113 ... RoXXXie np 040113 ... time_warp um... is your name meant to read "scabbed angel", as in "angel with wounds that once bled but are now healing, forming scabs"? i do believe it has two "b"s in it... just a curious observation... 040113 ... RoXXXie i was wondering that myself 040113 ... u24 angel with the scabbed wings hard drug face wanna powder his nose. 040113 ... Scabbed Angel Yes, opps, I forgot. Thinks for correcting me, Im not a good speller. And yes I got it from Marilyn Manson's song. 040114 ... Scabbed Angel i love Marilyn Manson's music, but it isnt the best i really love the harder stuff like Dark Funeral, Skyfire, Darkthrone, Arch Enemy, Mortician, And Dimmu Borgir. 040114 ... Scabbed Angel But I also like the older stuff like Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osbourne, and also Rob Zombie 040114 ... Zach I dunno, guys, if you listen to The Cure, and some Peter Murphy... or siouxsie su or XTC. That's some good stuff. 040117 ... Scabbed Angel ill stick with black, death and classic metal 040118 ... Dead But Walking Goth is a subculture. A group of people who feel comfortable within each others company. There is no specific thing that defines what you need to do or be to fit into the goth scene (except of course the implied black clothing). People in the goth scene all have different musical tastes, follow different religions, have different occupations, hobbies, and fashion sense. Most goths become goths because they have been spurned by 'normal' society because the way they want to live their lives does not fit in with how most people are told to live theirs. Goths are free thinkers, people who do not accept the moral rules of society because they're told 'This is just how it is' or 'This is what God says!'. Rather goths tend to listen to what you have to say, and make up their own mind. This kind of free thinking and rejection of dogma earns only rejection in todays society. However because of this rejection from 'normal' society, goths have banded together to associate with other free thinkers. This has a beneficial effect on both the individual and society as a whole. For the individual they have a sense of belonging, and friends they can associate with. For society it removes one more misfit filled with rage from society's streets. This of course is not the case for all goths. Many goths today are goths for a variety of other reasons. They like the music, or the clubs are better, they have goth friends and joined in with them, or they just like staying up late nights and goths are the only ones awake to talk to. 040127 ... somedaysam invoking scenes of mystic fog darkened skies and black lined eyes a velvet cloak and fishnets too* *or have yourselves a listen to the Type O Negative song, Black No.1 040128 ... Souless Wanderer People think I'm one. I've been called one. No idea if i am one. Caked on make-up. Natural pale face enhanced by white-ish powder, black eyeline, black eyeshawdow, blue black hair, black clothes. Is that a goth? 040128 ... normal person when I was goth, back in the heyday of teenangst. It had nothing to do with culture or being different but found itself as an artistic expression of everything I felt. And helped purge all the negative emotions. Sometimes fashion is like art and art is always a form of expression. goths are sexy. 040128 ... tw phuck ewe awl. 040128 ... jenny enny dots i am pretty old so that might explain something. whether it's a fashion trend or a way of feeling. people excepting their sadness and gloom and being proud of it to share to the world. basically the goth fashion style was begun in the 80's or even earlier. it seemed like it was a trend that would just die out as did many 80's fashions. but i see it popular with teenagers, today. i wonder if the 13 or 14 year olds who dress like that got it from their parents who would have been teens in the 80's. or if they were rebelling against ultra conservative parents who might have been preppy yuppies back then. i was a sort of goth in the 80's, but much more cheerful. i am much cheerier now. 040129 ... jenny enny dots by the way, you don't have to be a goth to appreciate the beautiful sound of bands like dead_can_dance. 040129 ... music trivia buff lacking some knowledge somebody said: And I don't know about Johnny Cash, but I recently heard that he did a cover of Depeche Mode's "Personal Jesus" No actually he did a cover of a Nine Inch Nails song, but I forget which one. 040129 ... time_warp he did both, and a huge slew of others the nin song was "hurt" 040130 ... Scabbed Angel i dont know shit about Johnny Cash, but no remake of any Nine Inch Nail's songs can be any better then thier origionals 040130 ... Dead but Walking i dont really like 9" nails 040130 ... misstree wholly fuck. okay, prepare to be pounced on... in 3... 2.... 1..... let's start with how close-minded of a statement that is. without knowing the slightest thing about anything, you entirely rule out something's possibility of having worth. johnny_cash... i will not degrade him by trying to sum up his ingenuity or his impact, but suffice to say that he is not taken as a legend without reason. second, since you've already admitted to your own ignorance, i don't suppose you've heard much of the NIN remixes... trenty boy's stuff is good in the original form, but listening to his remixes is... it's distilled, like the difference in intoxication between vodka and beer... it's the deeper thrust. as these remixes would indeed be "remakes," if you truly hold this opinoin based on exposure to that which you are judging, well, have at it... but i have just the slightest inkling that you're talking out of your butt. as well, that particular remake is of a song that many people hold very very dear, a masterpiece in itself, and to be able to hear it in a new interpretation, a new form, is very special in itself. and dead_but_walking, 's all good, if you haven't heard the remixes i'd recommend giving them a go, if you have, well, cheers, here's to different tastes. 040131 ... Scabbed Angel I'v only heard 2 or 3 of johnny's songs, i dont really listen to oldies very much. only stuff like Ozzy and Black Sabbath. Wich no one can top Ozzy. 040203 ... Jasmine N I have just read what all of you were discussing...and frankly I may vomit in both how offended I am and how suprized by how utterly STUPID you have been.You're all going on about what GOTHS are and what you think about goths like you actually have a God-forsaken CLUE!"I want to go goth but I'm not allowed", "goths are cool!I'm comftorble around them and I understand them!",I'm sorry but you don't understand unless you ARE A GOTH!..I'm so fucking sick of both goth POSERS,and people who think they know...when they have NO idea... Goth is the way you think..yeah you can wear all black , wear white facepaint, the black lipstick, loads of black eyeliner,get tattoos,& peircings.I do and I love it!And yes, it's the music you listen to...but there are many different kind of goth music..not just METAL is goth.(Nightwish for example)..Satanic Opera,Goth Instrumental,some Trance/Techno..that's VERY goth.Then ,yes there's metal..black metal and death metal...(Cradle of Filth, Children Of Bodom, Opeth,etc.)..But don't ever TRY to be a goth,just because you think it looks cool...that's VERY offensive and I've seen many people get their asses KICKED by goths because they tricked themselves into thinking that THEY were goth.Don't make that mistake..... for you're own good.And if you don't beleive me, or think I'm just being another shallow bitch....go die. 040216 ... Jasmine N. and P.S....some people say there goth n u just know that theyre not, just by the way they talk...but beleive me when I say...YOU HAVE JUST BEEN TOLD THE FUCK OFF BY A TRUE HARCORE FUCKING GOTHIC GIRL!(And a sexy 1 too!) Have a nice day foolz, and I'll see you in hell! 040216 ... HECTOR ALL HAIL SATAN 040216 ... smurfus rex are you trying to be a scary goth, jas? or maybe a thuggish goth? I mean, really, a rampaging band of goth kids whuppin up on some poseur goth kids? Sounds like you're perpetuating the very cycle of behavior that people like you look down on non-goth people for. "Ooo! Watch me prove how goth I am by turning on my scary unintelligible music and beating the crap out of you!" I may not be goth, or understand the finer nuances of the subculture, but I would be willing to bet that the true goths shake their heads in pity and disgust when they hear the tripe that comes out of mouths like yours. But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. :) 040216 ... Nelson ha-ha! 040217 ... misstree whee! in the mood to rant... indeedy doo, smurfus. "gother than thou" is a card game, not a head game. i really can't speak for the younger generation, as there are children of goths old enough to be goths themselves, but trying to revoke someone else's goth card is one of the quickest ways to get yours revoked. fuck music, fuck fashion, fuck bad poetry or "loving the night," the one thing that goths have in common is that there will always be people who see them as outsiders. yeah? well, FREAKS UNITE! jesus, we have hippies and ravers and gamers and random mutts of every description coming out to play on tuesday_goth_night, and it makes us all happier people with more perspective than the elitist assholes that say that you better fit their particular idea of what a subculture is or else you're disowned. and, as it is my ohsohumble opinoin that music is the binding force, may i possibly suggest that you seek out a few of the goth stations on live365 to see what the standard for the subculture actually is before you build a soapbox and start lecturing on it? and if you think *i've* just been told off by a "true hardcore fucking goth girl," eat this with a spoon: *you've* just been told off by a true hardcore fucking hippie gypsy poet brutalist gamer pirate poet discordian with a half a dozen other heritages who's also been a goth since before you hit high school. choke on my big black latex cock, willya? oh, and as a last note, i gotta reiterate that i can't speak for the younger generation, and it seems much of this is spewed by highschool age folk, who often don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, re subcultures or anything else, but will certainly speak with greatest authority because they know how it is in their school. almost makes me sad, them giving goths a bad name, but somewhere along the line i forgot to give a shit. oops! 040217 ... grendel Yeah, i always get a laugh out of over-earnest types like Jasmine Jasmine, try this on for size before slinking back to wherever: my trenchcoat is older than you and i've even been buried in it once already junkiepoetnovelistmanwhorepoliticianthug 040217 ... Scabbed Angel I dont see why jasmine has such a hair up her ass, goth isnt the music you listen to it is about how you feel, what you see, and what you want it to beit is to suite how you feel, and yes some people go and call others "POSERS" and yet they are the posers, and you useing that quote "SEE YOU IN HELL" i dont even belive in it babe, im pagan so i guess i wont be seeing you at all! 040218 ... sab my darling, darling jasmine N you have jsut summed up everything i despise and hate about the goth scene. i weap for the younger generations every time they open their mouths. spankin' time. you have jsut spewed out such old and tired cliches that have been around since before you were born. you're a babygoth. want me to tell you how i can tell? because it's the babygoths that fight so hard and scream so loud about the True Meaning of Goth [...feel free to nail your hand to your forehead here...] once people have been around a scene, any scene, for a while, they don't care what other people think. those who are new to any scene or religion desperatly try to prove to everyone else just how HardKore they are, jsut how much they believe. it's like newbies secretly think they have a lot of catching up to do and try to do it all as fast and as loudly as they can. you know, most of the children who discover goth move on after about 12 months. those who don't usually at least chill the fuck down. you don't have to prove how hardKore you are to the rest of the world, cos the rest of the world doesn't give a fuck. and you make take that sentance and sit in your little dark room hung with black velvet you've bought from the cheaparsed material shop down the road, hunched over your solitary candle and get all angsty about how no-body cares about you and how you're just too artistic for them to understand, or you can do some research and a little bit of thinking and maybe you'll stop comming across like a small petilant child in black lipstick. which they envitably are. and if you are a true, hardcore goth, i would like to see some credientials, other than a small list of bands that your friends have assured you are gothic. despite what you say, anyone can be a goth. anyone who wants to be a goth, can be. it's not hard and there is no test involved to join the gothclub. intelligence, however, is much harder to aquire. you yourself say you have the tattoos, the piercings, the make up and some sembalance of cd collection, provided that you actually own the bands you're waving around on your goth flag. pats for you sweety, your gothic friends must be very proud. now back the fuck off and try thinking for yourself a bit. it'll do wonders for your personality. smurfus rex, you got it in one, and mistree, you know, you can come in swinging for me any time of the night* *jasmine honey? that pointless goth reference was for you. 040218 ... sabbie grendel my darling boy? you ROCK my world. and venus is still comming, she's jsut gotten distracted for a time. 040218 ... smurfus rex I love it when sabbie gets on a roll... :) 040219 ... stork daddy what's so gothic about social clubs? i guess even dark wanderers of the night like soirees. "i myself am preoccupied with death! now can you pass the sangria? oh and the doritos. thanks a mil. i mean, your kindness has stained my soul" 040219 ... misstree heeheeheeheehee that sounds like the movie nights that used to get thrown. buncha goffs sitting around guffawing at stuff just like anybody else. our choices of movies were sometimes a tell, but really, who thinks of blackula as being the representative vampire movie? the booze and the hot_tub and the yummy foodstuffs and intellectual debate and occasional minor debauchery and just getting to sit around and Be with a bunch of other individuals was much more fun than the movie selections anyway. and we occasionally did GothAttacks (tm). half the scene in their monday finest descending like beatnick locusts on a movie theater or restraunt or bowling alley or picnicing spot or soccer field. you try to be angsty and dark and fashionable in bowling shoes or grass stains from rolling down a hill, giggling helplessly. in this little corner of the universe, for a while at least, it was damn near impossible to take oneself or one's almighty goffdom seriously. 'specially with those pretentious chicagoans always close at hand to remind us that keeping your nose in the air just shows off your boogers and makes you trip over the people that are already passed out drunk. and you know, we didn't hang out because we were all goth. we hung out because we all were pretty tolerable to the majority of others and vice versa, and because we had similar interests and similar tastes. isn't that what social clubs (and subcultures) are about? example; not enough hippies can point out the slow evolution of horror films over the last few decades, and it's hard to drum up interest in an sca event in a raver scene. and bless the stars, the intelligentsia in this town used to rock some serious ass, i mean debates flying in person and on mailing lists that had me sitting silent, feeling like an idiot, and y'all know by now that it takes an act of god or occasionally stork_daddy to shut me up. back then, debauchery was just a side dish to the massive brain orgies. le_sigh. sorry, tangented. resume the great gawffick debate and bitchery. oh yeah, and you best lissen to ol' missus sabbatore, chittluns, she's a hellified wise one right theah, and she talks good to boot. bend over and accept your whacks. 040219 ... stork daddy you make me want to watch horror movies with you. for a first selection i can't decide between wicker man and pumpkinhead. although return of the living dead 2 captures a zeitgeist we seem to share. 040219 ... misstree though pumpkinhead is indeed a much overlooked gem that i haven't seen in longer than i care to admit, i haven't laid eyes on wicker_man yet despite some very strong recommendations, so i'd want to push for that. i still haven't seen return of the living dead past the first half-hour. i had to throw myself out of the room forcibly, because i'm saving the last great zombie flick for a when i really need to cleanse something terrible from my tongue. one of my minions reported last night clive_barker is about to begin a final installment in the hellraiser series; pinhead_vs_michael. he demanded full creative control and the actors for the 4 original cenobytes (they're still waiting for the_bitch to sign on, but they have the others), plus the ability to add in most of the 30-odd cenobytes that he cooked up and never used. if that comes out as bad as the original concept suggests it could be (i mean, at least freddy_vs_jason had some reason to be around), i'll need return of the living dead. if it comes out as well as i believe clive is capable of making it, i'll be rolling around the theater aisles in a sticky, popcorn-covered state of orgasm. dammit. tangented again. gotta get that brain sent in for an alignment soon. 040219 ... stork daddy what are your thoughts on the remake of dawn of the dead? 040219 ... misstree you know, i've heard very little about it so far... my initial instinct is that it's not going to do the story proper... part of the reason that the original was so compelling was the slow, stoic pace of it, the inevitability, and that's just not enough flash and boom for most of the tripe that hollywood vomits these days... and i don't know who's directing, or if they have the subtlety neccesary to capture the feeling of being trapped in consumerist mecca and seeing the Great God Moola rendered powerless in its own temple... so, like many movies as of late, i just idly hope it's not a waste of time to watch, and i'll take anything else it has to offer as a gift. what do *you* think about it? i'm guessing you know a little more about it than myself. 040219 ... Scabbed Angel In horror movies, ill say that John Carpenter is one of the best screen writers and directors. I loved John Carpenter's Vampires and the trilogy of holloween. and Night of the Living Dead was pretty scary the first time iv seen it. 040301 ... jimmy i liked mouth of madness. i think the passion of christ is in many senses a horror movie. 040301 ... Scabbed Angel I loved that movie Rosemary's baby. that was a good movie! 040303 ... jimmy he has his father's eyes! 040303 ... im not telling are annoying. i can't stand subcultures and cliques and--well, you get the point. 040303 ... white_wave hippiegoth i think i was once one, maybe... 040306 ... . and my name was black_wave 040306 ... Scabbed Angel Rosemary's Baby was an awesome movie! I wanna see that remake of Dawn of the Dead! and one of my favorites was The Army of Darkness! 040310 ... Scabbed Angel How can you be a hippigoth? iv never seen a hippi looking goth or a goth looking hippi, i have seen people who look punk but called themselves goths and people who would be dressed as a goth and the next day come looking like a prep! So i guess you could be a hippi one day and be dressed as a goth the next! 040310 ... sameolme good golly miss molly, its a hippigoth! "Groovin on a nuclear afternoooon Really, coudn't get awaay to sooon NoNO NO!! NO!!" Please step away from the keyboard 040310 ... misstree refusing to own up to her heritage it comes out looking very gypsy, as far as clothing goes. realistic_optimist is a hippiegoth (or at least was, back in the day), and he epitomized a lot of it for me; everything is not sunshine and rainbows, and everything is not dark clouds, but there's value in both... there's a more laid back sensuality than most goths, and more sensuality in general than most hippies... musical tastes of course mutate with the esthetics... i dunno, it's hard to describe... just trust me, they're out there... i've licked 'em... 040310 ... sameolme oh, I believe in em, just sounds like a word I'd type into Google and end up gues where. 040310 ... marked . 040311 ... daughterofthemoon back to what was said at the beginning. ive heard plenty about goths helping people when they are harrassed. My bf saved somebody from being harrassed but these guys kept coming after him and beating him up and i havent heard from him in quite a while, but thats not the point. If theres a lot of other goths saving people, why does everyone judge us and blame us? 040318 ... Scabbed Angel Because they are afraid of us because of our dark and unusual images and because they we are beleived to worship satan and other shit and all these wanna bes out thier to claim to worship the devil, and have hostil motives to others and are just dorks and geeks who are and ran into goth just to scare the people who make fun of them! 040322 ... sab sighs people like to be afraid of things that are different and this goes for subcultures religions cultures countries neighbours new ideas fucking anything. and its a fact of life that lots of goths and punks do look very different to the normal person. and people are afraid. and fear takes many forms but the main one is often attack attack that which you are secretly afraid so that they wont see your fear. see the current world crisis as a perfect example. cultivate fear and hate and then wade in stomping things. and this doesnt make goths or punks or anything else better, or cooler, or faster or anything its just what happens. basic human nature and its going to be what gets us all killed. has no hope for the world today 040322 ... Scabbed Angel I know what you mean sab. I bet most the people i this room dont. It is just that other people/ the so called "normal ones". are to blind to know what is realy going on. We are killing each other and dont even know how. All the fighting lableing umong eachother. Who is to say what we are? are we even Goth, are Punks even Punks, are hippies actually hippies. To me we are all just the end of the world!!!! 040323 ... daughterofthemoon at my school, the only one who really notices me thinks that i am just so cool, which is not my goal. then, of course, all the jocks mock me my ex boyfriend encouraged me to let loose my dark side, then dumped me for a normal person, i am so jaded 040324 ... iNsEcUrE_GoTh_GiRl daughterofthemoon fuck the jocks, they're so fucking full of themselves that they have no brains. i think that you are cool. im being very outspoken today, im probably going to be embarrassed about some things that i said to people today, but i feel that you should know that you dont need people like that. there are lots of people that do that to me, and although im not fully used to it, i can ignore it and i think that the best thing to do would be to sit down, take a deep breath and say; Fuck you. It helps. You probably weren't loking for a reply like this, but the fingers are typing and the brain is too far behind to stop them ;) people say it gets better, and it does. dont dwell on what other people think, i did that for too long, and i was really bitter until i met a friend of mine, who put my probs into perspective. fuck them. they're all dickheads. you're better off without him, and who needs jocks, anyway? No seriously! anyway, i think i'll shut up now before i embarass myself ay more. yeah. 040325 ... Scabbed Angel I hate jocks and everyone else who dont like me. and i think it is just about everyone at my school be sides all the other normal people(goths). But anyway I agree with you. Fuck all the jocks, preps, and any other dick head who fucks with me!!!! 040326 ... oldephebe who was the first goth? i mean..who is credited with inaugerating the whole goth vibe..either by work of art, lifestyle and or literary work... being a christian..i have to say that i've always been drawn, even if at only the periphery, to some of the goth vibe.. 040326 ... sameolme I would vote for Jim Morrison, but I'm not registered. 040326 ... oE how 'bout Goethe? 040327 ... daughterofthemoon is it bad to hate my best friends crush? he doesnt like her. he really pisses me off. he always has to turn everything into a debate, and i really dont care to argue my points that much. hes not goth should goths date non-goths? where is the line drawn, between who goths should date and who they shouldnt? 040412 ... misstree goths should date people that they are compatible with. i've dated other goths. i've also dated rudeboys, punks, geeks, and all manner of uncategorizable freaks. do *not*, i repeat, do *not* judge someone by what subculture they come from. you don't date someone for their fashion sense or musical taste. i'm gonna stop now before i get really heavy handed with the clue stick, because that question comes about the closest to offending me that anything has in a while. sheesh. 040413 ... misstree and lemmie reiterate the quote under goth: YOU ARE NOT YOUR SUBCULTURE. if being goth is your defining characteristic, go plant some magical beans in your garden and grow yourself a real personality. 040413 ... Scabbed Angel well said misstree 040414 ... sab thanks for the attempted understanding Scabbed Angel, but i don't think you do know what i mean. don't think just because you label some the "normal ones" that they don't have a clue, any intelligence or understand what's going on in the world. otherwise you're jsut as guilty of judging people on the way they look. today i am wearing a business shirt striped white and pink and a pair of rather spanky pinstripe pants. how does that make me any different as a person to if i was wearing a PVC mini skirt, fishnets and a black velvet singlet? it doesn't. i'm still the same sab. how i choose to look is indeed part of who i am, but if i don't wear fourteen types of silver jewellery, black lacy drapey things, and haven't doodled on my face with eyeliner, that doesn't make me less of a person, less smart than other people less knowledgable of the way the world works or how other people are treated or any of that shit. don't be tricked into falling into the same mindset you don't like in other people. 040414 ... misstree you_are_not_your_subculture every so often, i like wearing either white or hippie clothes or street clothes to goth clubs, just to see how differently people treat me. it's astounding, even among those who know me. but even with such an exercise, gother_than_thou can be an easy trap to fall into. don't let yourself. you'l miss out on so very many kewl and interesting peoples if you don't give them a fair shake. you don't have to like everyone, but you're cheating yourself if you blind yourself to another's potential. thanks for the reminder, sab. :) 040415 ... daughterofthemoon ok so ive moved on over the other guy, now there's another one. he doesnt notice me, just my best friend. what to do? what has the wheel of fortune(or misfortune, whatever you will,) got instore for me? 040509 ... daughterofthemoon sorry all i really need is advice(it would be hard for you to see what lies ahead, lest you have tarot cards or someother divination tool.) and belated beltane blessings everyone! 040509 ... dosquatch That which you won't allow for yourself is forbidden fruit still, and the worst kind. It eats at you, gnawing you hollow inside. It raises your expectations so high that the reality could never fill the void you've created. Don't do this. Speak to him. Really, just do it. The worst he can say is no, and knowing that for certain is way less painful than unrequited and unspoken fantasy. BTDT 040509 ... daughterofthemoon but hes one of my best friends, would it not be embarassing, him to knowing that i love him, and not loving me back? 040510 ... daughterofthemoon him knowing, not him to knowing 040510 ... daughterofthemoon back to what was said up in the middle, goths getting treated like shit, i go to a preppy school, live in a wannabee prep town and must commute 1 hour to the nearest hot topic (the only place i fit in), all the preps, they think they arent preppy, its ridiculous, then the jocks accuse me of being a wannabee. But, ive started taking the advice, and now, when they open thier preppy in pink lip gloss lips to spit out more meaningless garbage about "why cant you be normal?" i just say "fuck you!" and like magic, they all shut up. 040510 ... southern punk strikes again!! goths are cool... but how often do you see a black one??? i think we're kind of excluded by our lack of pale skin. or maybe not just a thought. but im actally not a wannabe goth. maybe wannabee punk, but im too preppy (not really) im actually too southern. 040510 ... Redshift Hey. I agree with the whole "You are not your Subculture". Although, your subculture has an undiniable influence on you. I am a goth, have been for almost a decade, and yes, I used to be a stupid little Babygoth. I also write music, (drum'n'Bass, Industrial), program, work with 3D computer graphics, and am just generally a pretty unique sequence of human DNA. One aspect i find is really overlooked in Goff culture is comics. We have a sense of humour, you know. JTHM, GloomCookie, Lenore.... heh heh Lenore is sooooo cute. /end poke 040527 ... emily well i think there is a lot of subcultures of goths. computer goths wannabe goths muso goths pill goths opunk goths man theers too amny to name. myself im nto a goth. yeha sure i wear black nail polish (oh my) i wear black clothes ( hmm but i onyl ever wear black and pink clothing i threrw all my others out) (other than my school stuff) and i wear cuffs and chokers and my haior is dyed black (with pink of cause) and i weasr black eyeshadow and liner. but it doesnt make me goth. so many ppl get stero0typed as somethgin because of what they wear nto weho they are. i thibnk a lot of goths want to be that way to destroy the aprt of them that si a conformist to destroy the part of themselves that they hate. btu takin that part of them away wont mae them better because they are still confoming just nto the mainstream bt the "gothicstream" im sorry that souned awful. i thnk a lot of goths think they are goths because they think that if they act depressed enough if they write dark enough stuff and if they go around puttign spells on ppl (im tlkaing abotu the wannabe goths here huns) they will get the attention they so desperatlyey want. me myslf. im ahpyp ebing me. (well im nto happy i dont knwo what i am) wrote i scowl i cry i cry and hey i crysoem mroe but i dont delude myself into thinking im any more or less then myself. i dont go aorudn saying im so goth blah blha blhh, because i knwo in the end i wont fit in there as well as anywhere else. i just wonder why cant ppl understand goths are nto difernt form us. true goths true individuals dont are what theya er labeled they shrug it off they are free so they dont need ure bullshit oh ure hair looks cool oh how do u do ure makeup oh this that and every other shit because in themselves they just ...are i guess.... im, sorry u just had to hear teh ramblings of a 16 yr old suicidal chik who cant get out of her frame of mind BAH FREAKIN HUM BUCK ps. mind the spelling 040528 ... mirage eloquent. What was lost in the spelling was made up for twice by the opinion. 040528 ... emily thanks mirage. i think i repeated myself a bit though 040529 ... skinny you get a lot of crap for being a jew where i live, so i think ill stay goth on the inside 040622 ... emily so....by that do you believe that the onely way you can be a "goth" is by wearing black...... go back to your britney and avril 040623 ... Nightshade i have found a cure for jadedness! jadedness? jadetosis? jadeosity? whatever you will. i used to be jaded, i got a boyfriend i am no longer jaded! but, then again, i have this foreboding that the happiness will come crashing down not to reappear for awhile. i will end up thinking to myself, "ah well that was nice, now back to my pool of misery." i think im paranoid or depressed ignore my rant if you wish 040727 ... wonderinsoul666 people at skool call me goth but my bf says im not i dont think i am i think im to happy he says most goths he knows are deprssed but i know goths 2 and not all of them are sad n depressed i duno what i am i think if i was goth id be liek a new goth kuz no 1 knows what a true goth is 041002 ... iNsEcUrE_GoTh_GiRl even the goths and the moshers at school, they wear the 'funky' goth stuff, figure hugging blazers and baggy pants, a certain type of trainers or converse, etc etc. I thought the idea behind being a goth was to be OUT of the popularity contest of the rest of the world, and just be out there doing your own thing. i dont follow their fashion trends. i would like to wear what they do, but not because they wear it, but because i really like the clothes. however because of the reason outlined above, i cannot wear them. i used to think that to be a 'proper' goth, you have to listen to heavy metal all the time, always wear goth makeup. since then, i've grown up a hell of a lot, and now i listen to all kinds of music that i like, such as mosher bands, some evanescence, some manson, some linkin park, limp bizkit, yellow card, jack off jill, ferry corsten, armand van helden, etc etc etc. My music tastes vary a lot, and considering that i dont fit into any stereotype anyway because of this and my choice of clothes, i figure i will wear whatever the fuck i want to, whether it is classed as 'goth' or not. i like to be able to cal myself a goth, because it gives me a sense of belonging, i can connect to people who think like me and who are generally cool, open minded people. There are the few assholes, but you need them to appreciate the decent ones. maybe i shouldnt call myself a goth because i dont fit into the mould of one. if i did then maybe i would be following the crowd again, and i've had enough of that, i've always been the outcast and the independant thinker. following others does not rest well with me, and so i will continue being my own brand of goth. The reason i still want to call myself a goth is because the goths are people i can really really relate to. If i am not 'allowed' to relate to them because i dont wear goth clothes all the time, and dont listen nonstop to heavy metal then you know what? fuck that. dont feel like you have to pretend to be somebody you aren't to be accepted into a clique or to be classed as a goth/mosher/skater/punk/whatever. i tried that and it really isnt worth it. you dont know who you are any more and you begin to doubt yourself and feel worthless. it becomes a twisted circle that you can't break until you embrace the fact that yes, you are a unique human being. you dont need other people's approval and permission to be something that, let's face it, you are. if you feel like you have to pretend to be the person that you show to everyone else, don't bother. be yourself, at least as much as you can. it makes you vulnerable, and it's scary, because the fear of rejection from your peers is something that is deep-seated in your subconscious and that is why most people have facades, fronts that they put on to protect themselves from rejection. look at it this way; if people can't accept you as your own person, it IS NOT YOUR FAULT. it is their problem for being so close-minded and insecure in themselves. if they lash out it is because they don't have the courage to 'come out' as it were, to be themselves and be comfortable with it. be whatever you want to be. nobody can stop you, and if they try.... fuck them. 041003 ... god i am indeed .08% gothic 041003 ... wonderinsoul666 i took a quiz kuz i was bored it was like what % goth r u i took it n it sed i was 45% goth im happy with that..i dont want to be full goth..what that other person if my peers reject me i think thats their fuckin loss i wouldnt get all screwed up over them they r nothing to me jus someone or something to entertain me 041008 ... gefiltafish boy so what's so wrong with avril? 041008 ... Nightshade636 i think insecure_goth_girl wins the award for the longest blathe and avril is annoying slightly i can put up with her more than ashlee simpson she just pisses me off and preps who sing broken they piss me off too i want to go wring thier necks with a violin string 041012 ... smurfus rex right on, insecure_goth_girl! *tosses over a Tootsie Roll Pop* 041012 ... you should know by now you won't wear clothes you like because other people wear them. back in my day, people like that were ironically called non_conformists. you have half a clue; open up some cracker jacks and collect the whole set. it's not about rebellion. it's not about telling people you don't care, or convincing yourself you don't care. it's about grokking your Self and doing whatever that dictates, as if you were in a vacuum. if your Self says avril has some catchy shit that you don't mind listening to, fuck all else, listen to it. if your Self says you like something from hot_topic, don't give a moment's thought to what other people are wearing, if it's too cliched or trendy or not cliched or trendy enough. (and don't think that not_gothic is the be_all_end_all of gawth culture, either, they're just a convenient outlet that fills a demand. used to hate them, bringing *my* little niche to the mall_rats, but hell, they've got good music and spiffy socks, so they got my lurve.) what i'm saying is: get over yourself to know yourself. did i mention i got my bitter old cunt card in the mail? applied for it ten years ago, and now i officially have the right to snarl at baby_bats who think they invented rebellion. i'm so f'in proud. 041013 ... ChristDecay666 I hate those people who dress like Goths and say they ain't Gothic. All that does is piss the Goth subculture off. Those people say they are being themselves and that Goths ain't but I'm a Goth and I'm being myself by totally identifying with the subculture. I also hate it when people call eachother posers and shit. I'm sure that posers do exist but how the fuck could anyone know who's a poser and who's not? I never called anyone a poser in my entire life because it's stupid. Why is everyone so obsessed with who they are? So you people are Gothic? Who cares! I try not to take myself so seriously. Yeah, I'm Gothic, but I don't think about it 24/7. All of my Goth friends talk about the subculture constantly and it gets boring. I don't understand how they can only think or talk about Goth. And my friends talk about religion alot, too. Either about opposing the whole concept of religion (atheism) or about Wicca. I'm a Satanist although my beliefs are different from most Satanists. I don't believe in good or evil. I don't like to talk about religion because it's just as boring as talking about Goth. 050608 ... lonelywonderingdarksoul In my opinion it is up to what you want and how you feel to define oneself as a goth. Yes the music is good and all. But you probobly litsen to what your sociaty considers to be gothic music, Marylin Manson. I could care less what someone listens to as a way of defining them as a goth. Its about how you think not what you think. To be gothic is to have an open mind and to try things you are intersted in. It's not about being dark and evil its about sharing experiances and thoughts. I at one point was looking into the saitanistic religion but after about a month of calling my self satanic I looked at what I thought about things and not what some book or someone else says about what to beleive in. In my view it is you who says you are a goth or just some poser. Next time you look at somehting look at the facts and make up your own opinion on it. 050608 ... ChristDecay666 MARILYN MANSON SUCKS!!!!!! 050609 ... Cain well... I'm called a Goth, but I wouldn't call myself one. Part of being what is widely called Goth is an expression of individuality (that doesn't mean you're different from everyone else, it means you're different from the majority), and to call yourself a Goth is to put yourself into a category, a stereotype, which is exactly what people are trying to do to you. Personally, I do believe many things from The Church of Satan, Satan Demonism, Paganism and Spiritualism, but it irritates me that people assume I sacrifice goats and children over a pentagram every full moon. For the record, I don't. It's ridiculous to be afraid of "Goths", and it's ridiculous to make fun of them (us) for being who they (we) want to be, instead of following a stereotype lay down by the popular people. You tell me, if you think that "Goths" are evil, is it any better to throw things at them, insult them, attack them, beat them up, even kill them just because they're different than you? If you still think Goth's are evil, go right ahead and call yourself the new Ku Klux Klan. 050905 ... ben why are goths and punks treated the way they are i mean this girl i know got smacked in the face and spat on its disgusting there human beings GOTHS AND PUNKS ROCK 050929 ... birdmad lately my only consistently "goth" accoutrements are my long hair and long pointy somewhere-south-of-Max-Schreck nails. otherwise i look like just about every other slightly scruffy slacker you'd see populating the IT and general tech support department of any slightly relaxed office environment 050929 ... superleni once a goth, always a goth? 060510 ... grendel insofar as sacking and pillaging a city is never far from my mind 060511 what's it to you? who go blather from