why_bush_won_and_kerry_lost The REAL REASON! You may have heard on the news that the reason why Bush won was all because of Fundamentalist Christian voters in Ohio. This is not entirely the case. The Reason that Bush won is because of Holy-Spirit Filled Christian voters all over the country acting in response to a perceived infringement on our freedom. Competition is the cure for complacency, and the Christians in America have sat back in a state of dormancy thinking their role as hypocritical pew-warmers was effectively contributing to the inexorable expansion of God's Kingdom. Well, we've woken up to the smell of the foreseeable near future (that our Christian complacent laziness admittedly helped to allow) and it stinks! So, The Church, being the most advanced and amazing living organism on this planet, twitched a little while awaking from deep slumber and broke free from the chains of complacency effectively stopping something that would have competed with the future freedom of this country on a spiritual level. We are not ignorant of the devices that are designed to take away our freedoms, regardless of appearances! Now the world, infantile in its composure and on the lip-quivering verge of tantrum, is confused and dumbfounded wondering what just slapped them. The issues in this election represented a crucial tipping point in the scales of what Christians will or will not allow in the Land that God gave us. "What are those issues?", you may ask. Excellent question, I'll tell you. 1. Moral Values. The #1 reason why Bush won (as the news media has already disclosed) is because his moral values on the issues of abortion, family, marriage, life and freedom align with The Church. You see, we realize that the economy is important and that the war in Iraq is not exactly a shiny button on Bush's lapel, (regardless of Iraq's freedom that is sure to ensue shortly). But we also realize that there are more important things in the grand scheme of things that far outweigh money, taxes and war. Philosophically, if this generation gives in, even a little bit, toward a degradation of morality, the next generation will give in even more. Then, like the Roman Empire, which collapsed internally due to immorality and corruption of its pagan citizens, we would follow suit, as we all know history repeats itself. THAT IS WHY THIS ELECTION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN DECADES, perhaps ever! People, now more than ever before, are opening their eyes to realize that something is not quite right with the world and society. No, its not normal or ok that everyone is on anti-depressants! There is already a war going on in America. It not a natural, but a spiritual battle that wages on all around us, though most are blind to it. An anti-Christian values onslaught awaits anyone who even tunes into prime-time (or day time) television. Your eyes are already open if you're a Christian (If you call yourself a Christian, yet disagree with that fact, you are worse off then the unbelievers, according to Revelation 3:16!) If you are not a Christian, you will dismiss all of this as nonsense (according to 1 Corinthians 1:23). In the end, the economic cycles will fluctuate up and down regardless of the president's political party affiliation. Wars will come and go, as will peace, yet to the countries that forsake God's commandments, they all fall. Just ask Israel, who's been conquered by about every single empire ever to rise up throughout history. 2. Government. While The Church was busy Sunday napping the government (one December day after everyone else had gone home for Christmas) proceeded to switch the national religion to Atheism (disguised under the Separation of Church and State act), abandon the Christian Principles upon which the United States of America were founded, and have since been scurrying to erase every iota of evidence that God's providential Hand gave us this Nation! Why? Not to mention the push to ban Prayer from schools (where are you now ACLU?), while drowning mainstream America with alcohol and drugs to the point where they can't even see that they've regressed back into a civilization of Pop Idol worshippers. But the last straw was when the Foundational System of Law in this country was circumnavigated by activist judges. Our nation was designed to operate on a system of checks and balances between the Executive, Legislative and Judiciary branches! When a Judge, (who is supposed to INTERPRET the law, not CREATE the law) determined in Massachusetts that the definition of marriage as only between a Human Male and a Human Female as unconstitutional, then re-writes the law how he sees fit forming a superlegislature… THAT, my fellow Americans, is an OUTRAGEOUS and BLATANT abuse of legal authority, not to mention unconstitutional. (Yes, marriage is the basis of family, family is the basis of society. Yes, an attempt to destroy or redefine marriage is a threat to society.) As you can see, and by all means, please go study American History for the past 55 years if you don't know about all this, there have been successful attempts to "Sneak" immorality into our laws and government. This must be, and now, will be stopped. Whoever was elected as president would have appointed Supreme Court Judges based on his inner-values (Either Godly or Worldly). That is why we placed Bush back in power, to circumvent the circumnavigation! Of course it's not over yet… there will be more attempts of sneakiness, each one resulting in a clearer definition between the two sides: The Church vs. The World, at least that is how the Bible describes it (according to 1 John 2:16). Now, I'm not saying that Bush is a saint! He is human and falls short just like you and I… However, he is not afraid to admit that he prays to Almighty God for wisdom and guidance. And he does have a respect and love for his wife and daughters. The difference in the moral values between Bush and Kerry became obvious during the final questions of the 3rd debate. We needed a leader who follows Jesus. We needed a Leader who understands that leading is servitude, that Strength lies in humility, and that the popular way isn't always the right way. That is why George W. Bush won the election. 041104 ... kx21 *** * What's_Reality - 51_percent_123 * *** The_Mind_of_United_States and the_images_of_Americans "wired / wireless" around_and_across Bush"s Pepsi_folklore and Osama"s Beer_threat... Tell or show one why_NOT... And_I_will_tell_you_how_wonder_you_are... Copyright 2004 kx21.com 041104 ... naziKKKCrazy Christians Ha-Ha!!!! Funniest thing I read all day. 041104 ... jane i'd like to point out that there will not be any terrorist attacks in montana, who voted for bush, while the big cities, where terrorist attacks are plausible, voted for kerry. in addition, please note that the site of 9-11, new york, was overwhelmingly in support of kerry, despite whatever "help" bush gave giuliani afterwards 041104 ... from now on moral values? where is the morality in killing people?! innocent people!? look into the face of a dead child whose life has been taken by the blast of a US'an bomb and then tell me what you think about morality. do you honestly think that jesus would approve? what happened to love, to compassion? 041104 ... from now on and i would argue that the roman empire never collapsed. it morphed. 041104 ... --- Just because someone fallows the lord doesn't mean anything. i mean, i dont think teh lord wants innocent people killed because he declared a pointless war on iraq. but wahtever im not one to talk, i know nothing about politics. 041104 ... . i think the lord is an asshole 041104 ... kookaburra ok, maybe i don't get this because i don't believe in God, but how do gay marriage, abortion and stem-cell research infringing on YOUR rights? is it your right to know that those guys down the street are not recognized by the law? is it your right to know that that sixteen-year-old is dropping out of school because she has to take care of this kid? is it your right to know that next-door neighbor will soon die of cancer because stem cell research went unfunded and generally looked down upon? really, please answer, i'm curious... 041104 ... kookaburra p.s Bush doesn't follow the Bible. Nobody does anymore. He works on the Sabbath, only goes to church at photo-ops, does not forgive enemies and he probably has a christmas tree. but nobody seems to care about certain Bible instructions, now do they? only the ones that forbid something that makes them squeamish... 041104 ... it goes like this (Go real reason!) Good gravy, since when were Christmas trees against the Bible? And going to church isn't the only way to be a Christian. It's a tough job to take care of America. And heck, how do you know if Bush has forgiven his enemies or not? oh, I'm sorry, do you have a telepathic link? 041104 ... stork daddy if you aren't just doing this to rile up more discontent that already exists, i feel sorry for your misguidedness. The fact of the matter is that if you are so fond of the constitution and against activist judges, you'll realize that within the constitution itself there is a limitation on the ability of any religion to overtake government or infringe on the rights granted by the constitution. That those values spun out of some sort of religion does not remove the fact that they have become secular, and that it takes no god or leap of faith to see the benefit, purpose, and natural extension of them. The constitution is a document of democracy and liberty, not an imposition of religious value. Morality should never be forced on anyone. It is patently immoral to do so, as it robs from them the opportunity to be good in and of themselves. This is something most theologians readily agree with. On top of that, we've seen how well religious extremism works in the Islamic countries so often slighted by the christian conservatives. I do find it ironic that these same christians are willing to force christian morality on the non-harmful actions of gays, but are not willing to legislate christian charity and forgiveness and are often against welfare, or drug programs (because sinners bring it upon themselves). That nonsense about Rome is re-hashed shit i'm tired of hearing. Rome fell because it spread itself too thin, because its government was based on military might and constantly demanded new wars. This might sound familiar. That leaders became complacent in their arrogance was of course a key reason. I would argue that it was arrogant complacency to assume we'd be greeted as liberators in Iraq, and to assume that we could go in there half-assed. It's arrogant complacency to assume we can keep our power in the world despite running roughshod over the concerns of other countries all on the basis of our technological and military superiority. Rome fell because Rome had no allies. Rome fell because it created conditions outside its empire of poverty and war, and the barbarians which grew in the shadow of Rome resented it and saw it as a soft target in many areas. Thus the raids on unprotected cities. Also, the very balance of power you speak of is being whittled away by Bush's illusory choice between hegemony and security. The patriot act and the fear he uses to silence all political opposition has led to a republican controlled congress and soon to be even more republican Supreme Court. There will be no gridlock in any area of government for Bush. The electoral college's winner take all rule was meant to apply to the appointment of a leader, it was not meant to apply to their policy. In a representative democracy it is the duty of those leading to represent not only those who voted for them, but the other 50% of the people. If you really think that it is the christian republicans who make this country strong, perhaps it would interest you to note that California, predominately Democrat, is probably the most economically valuable state in the union. It really wouldn't make sense to dismiss half of the people in this country. That's one thing which will lead to a country's fall. Even the majority of christian theology makes no sense. The bible doesn't speak to every concern and people say the will of god is mysterious, some say unknowable. If the will of god can't be known completely because we are not at that level, then how do those who act by god's will know it is god's will? How do they know the bible is still even god's will. It makes no sense. What has allowed humans to progress has not been blind faith, but an ability to find stable causes and effects in the world, an ability to understand and predict reality and to act on that understanding. The leaps of faith we must take everyday are those pragmatic inferences we all make. They should not be such blind leaps of faith that we in essence disregard all hard facts we have at our disposal. Many Islamic countries impose on their citizens the morality of Islam which shares many of the "moral issues" you qouted above. Would you say those countries prosper? Would you say those countries are what we should aim for? Is Christian Facism more American than Islamic Facism? NO. Facism is Facism. The means are never justified by the ends. That is why there is a balance of power, a bill of rights, and other procedural and substantial liberties built into our constitution. Also, most laws which require interpretation also require some creation, since in deciding how they should be applied you change what you found implicity to explicit, and you create new standards for determining the scope of the law. The difference is subtle, and no judge merely says this is what i feel the law should be. Like in other aspects of the government, there are rules they must abide by that ensures (although imperfectly as we are only human) a consideration of the language and policy that went into the law as well as the language and policy that went into the constitution. The constitution was left vague largely because the founders didn't want it to become irrelevant. A leader who followed Jesus would never launch a war. The idea is that sinners create their own hell, and that the spirit is purer than the body and so a person is never trapped by any evil of this world and so should concentrate their energy on becoming one with the impenetratable spiritual fortress that is god. If people actually acted Christian, I wouldn't mind them at all. They'd let me do whatever I wanted. They'd pray for me and try to teach me the error of my ways, but they'd never harm me, they'd never send innocents to their deaths. To qoute Bob Dylan "even Jesus wouldn't forgive what you do" 041104 ... jane & so eloquent, my dear... 041104 ... It goes like that hmm. I'm really not surprised that you see the Bible the way you do. Basically, you can't understand the Bible because you live a life that goes along with the culture of the world, and you only listen to the world. "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word." -John 8:43 But hey, go on living the way you want. I can't make you cnahge your mind or whatnot, I can't make you see. I'm just throwing in my bit. 041104 ... . nice cop-out, goes like guy. you use logic until you feel outclassed intellectually, at which point you hide behind the mystical knowledge that your religous beliefs supposedly afford you. how about responding to some of those points instead of dismissing them? is god's message unintelligible, or are you just an inadequate messenger? save our souls, for christ's sake! 041104 ... The devil made them do it -Even with Michael Moore’s anti-Bush propaganda film which was has grossed $119,200,329 in the US alone as of Oct. 28, 2004 (which divided by $7.50/ticket is almost 16 million viewings in the theatres), -Even with MTV’s left-tilting “Choose or Lose- 20 million loud” campaign, -Even with Hollywood heavyweights like Leonardo DiCaprio, Jack Black, Sharon Stone, Samuel L. Jackson, Rob Reiner, Matt Damon, Kevin Bacon, Scarlett Johansson, Margaret Cho, Sean Penn, Ben Affleck, Alec Baldwin, Dustin Hoffman, Richard “Gerbil” Gere and endless others slamming Bush and touring to drive votes for Kerry, -Even with the rock stars such as Bruce Springsteen, Eminem, P. Diddy, the Dixie Chicks, REM, Dave Mathews, Eddie Vedder and countless others bashing Bush constantly, -Even with approximately 20 popular anti-Bush books coming out from authors like Al Franken in the past year, -Even with most of the broadcast and print media tilting so far left that occasionally they fell off the shelf of credibility (Dan Rather, anyone?), -Even though the Media Fund, ACT (America Coming Together), SEIU (Service Employees Int’l Union) and AFSCME (American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees) put up $90 million to defeat Mr. Bush and Moveon.org used a $10 million donation from billionaire George Soros to attack the president, -Even though Craig Crawford’s article in Congressional Quarterly states that “Kerry Will Win”, -Even though AFL-CIO president John J. Sweeney said, "I don't even want to think about what another four years would be like." BUSH WON, both by electoral and popular votes. 041105 ... dratkuf I don't see any champions of morality on that list of Kerry supporters. 041105 ... p2 you mean like rush or o'reilly? 041105 ... A.D bush won because americans are fucking stupid. well done to all those who voted keryy, i applaud you. for the rest of you, thanks for giving the whole world 4 more years of hell. 041105 ... p2 you slap me with the same hand you applaud me with please keep your generalizations to a minimum 041105 ... Tostada al Sadr Champions of Morality like Ayatollah Pat Robertson, who uinstead of blaming 9/11 on the politicians and policies he supports that set that wheel in motion chooses to blame everyone who doesn't subscribe to his ideology? Champions of Morality like William Bennett with his gambling problem and his dominatrix fixation? Champions of Morality like Rush Limbaugh and his Oxycontin Dependency Champions of Morality ilke Ralph Reed and his bribery and kickbacks he took from the same casinos he badmouthed as being part of america's Gambling problem Champions of Morality like Bill "the mad falafel" O'Reilly? Or Uzbek President Islam "Boil the dissident alive and then throw his elderly mother into hard labor for complaining about it" Karimov? Jerry "Jesus needs a water-slide" Falwell? Paul "Jesus needs Satellites" Crouch? Don "i got a manslaughter conviction and i never met a boxer i coulodn't rob blind" King? Yeah, hose folks are just oozing morality. 041105 ... Seeds of Light Now, the standard arguments are, "Why do you think Bush is moral and Christian if he starts a war and kills people." The simple answer is: Freedom is on the other side of war. If people opposed the Revolutionary War, which was also waged and fought by Christians, our great nation would not even be discussing this election! Afghanistan is now a free nation, having their first election in history, thanks to Bush's war. People died. But now a nation is free and women are being educated and employed again. Besides, we don't know everything that Bush knows. We like to think we do, but we don't. We get our information from the news media, who run a profit seeking business, not a public service. And if you or I were in his position looking at the information about Iraq that he was looking at and talking to the advisors he was talking to, there is no guarantee that you or I wouldn't have made the exact same decision to invade Iraq. Soon, Iraq will enjoy democracy just like we do. You may even vacation there someday. Certainly it is a tragedy that over 1,000 U.S soldiers have been killed at an average of two a day. But more than 118 Americans die every day in car accidents, and 10,000 people die every day world-wide from tobacco use! I don't hear you all condemning Phillip Morris or Chrysler like you do Bush. All of the Kerry supporters are disappointed almost to the point of depression after the election. They believed in themselves and they believed in John Kerry. Well, many of them didn't believe in John Kerry, they believed against George W. Bush. In doing so, they polluted the unity of their faith resulting in a sort of False Faith which failed them. Bush supporters didn't believe in themselves, nor did they put their trust in George W. Bush. They put their faith and trust in God to keep Bush in power for four more years if it was God's will. Now, everyone knows the powerful effects of True Faith. My point is, if you put your faith in mankind, you will be disappointed often. If you put your Trust and Faith in God, He will certainly never let you down. What I want everyone to realize here is that Prayer had an impact on this election… such an impact that it shocked the nation and the world! 041105 ... can I believe? Wherever the Gospel is preached, Freedom is soon to follow. 041105 ... stork daddy if freedom, a shared secular value, can trump christian morality in the case of a war, other secular values can also trump christian values. i believe morality has some definite anchor points in human nature (on the assumption that human nature is relatively stable). I believe christianity (as practiced in this country) approximated some of those values, but that it is stagnant when it comes to others, such as permitting non-invasive, non-harmful rights, as well as a true doctrine of forgivness. 041105 ... stork daddy and that's the thing. a secular morality could permit both self-defense and charity without hypocrisy. but christianity interpreted literally would seem to disallow self-defense (of the body anyways). And you can't have it both ways. You can't say it's literal when it suits you, but suggestive when it doesn't. You are making up christian morality there and what you're doing has very little to do with god's will. Instead why don't you join the rest of us and try to create a rational basis for social interactions that respects and balances those unchanging mercies and tyrannies of the human heart without the need for obfuscation and lies. 041105 ... stork daddy so if you're afraid of gay people, just say it, say you're afraid of gay people. don't say they're evil because of god's will and then also try to use pseudo-science and anecdotal evidence (which even for anecdotal evidence isn't very strong) to support your statement. if you want to enter the world of evidence don't retreat to the catch all protection of god's will. if you were to just admit you were afraid of gay people, we could ask, well why is that. we could say well how can we live in a society that allows for that fear while not restricting unfairly the rights of gays. i fear right-wing christians, but i'd never suggest that they be disallowed to marry, or have children, or serve in the military. 041105 ... Tostada al Sadr Again, few will doubt the legitimcy of the action taken in Afghanistan. The cities, what there are of them, in Afghanistan are the only "free" areas. Aid organizations have pulled out of some places because they are run by the same sorts of warlords who have been running them since the Soviets left. Nonetheless, it was the right thing to do. But if there truly is such a thing as a "Sin of Omission," was it not, then, a sin to leave that task so unfinished? Iraq is a whole other subject Perle, Wolfowitz and Feith cherry-picked the intelligence Bush wanted to see and bought the rest of their pre-war intel from exiles with aspirations to power of their own (Ahmed Chalabi) so that he could present what appeared to be a cogent (albeit false) justification And then there is the whole exploitation of faith as political leverage. Matthew 6:1-6 6:1"Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before men, to be seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 6:2Therefore when you do merciful deeds, don't sound a trumpet before yourself, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may get glory from men. Most assuredly I tell you, they have received their reward. 6:3But when you do merciful deeds, don't let your left hand know what your right hand does, 6:4so that your merciful deeds may be in secret, then your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 6:5"When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most assuredly, I tell you, they have received their reward. 6:6But you, when you pray, enter into your inner chamber, and having shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly." I think this administration's policy in the Middle East is driven by an earnest (if deranged) belief that it is duty bound to go out of its way to trigger the conditions set forth for the Apocalypse According To John the Revelator 'cept for one thing: (Matthew 24:36) "But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Which means there are any number of people who are making one HELL of a presumption (pun very much intended) 041105 ... stork daddy th' good reverend Tostada has descended from the pulpit! donations will be taken at the door. 041105 ... p2 seeds what are you on? first of all the revolutionary war was a war for independence by the colonists the war in iraq is a war about money masked with wmds by foreigners if it was about freeing the iraqi people then there are a lot of other countries we should be invading too our purpose in afghanistan was not to make it a democratic nation it was supposed to be to get the terrorists specifically osama which we haven't done "dead or alive" remember? furthermore do not compare people who decide to smoke every time they put the cancer sticks to their mouths with people who are sent off to die by those who have never seen combat who has combat experience? bush? no cheney? no ashcroft? no rumsfeld? no wolfowitz? no rice? rove? frist? mcconnell? delay? no, no, no, no, no powell? yes! but powell fought the administration on the war see: casualty_of_war as for your "false faith" remark there were people praying on both sides and on both sides the people believed in what they were praying for do not dismiss 49% of this country's population with "false faith" if you want i can go through a list of issues where i support kerry's stance indeed i am anybody_but_bush but i am also pro-kerry for you to dismiss us so easily shows your own arrogance 041105 ... Wake Up YOU PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS!!! WAKE UP and realize what this war is really about. It isn’t about freedom -- if it was ... why then has Bush shredded our own constitution here in America and instituted the "Patriot Act" and "Patriot Act II"? The whole notion of Bush bringing Iraq freedom is a smoke screen people! The US invading Iraq has nothing to do with neither bringing them freedom nor enforcing our own freedom against the so-called terrorists of the 9/11 attacks. Rumsfeld, Vice President Dick Cheney, and a small band of conservative ideologues had begun making the case for an American invasion of Iraq as early as 1997 - nearly four years before the Sept. 11 attacks and three years before President Bush took office. An obscure, ominous-sounding right-wing policy group called Project for the New American Century, or PNAC - affiliated with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rumsfeld's top deputy Paul Wolfowitz and Bush's brother Jeb - even urged then-President Clinton to invade Iraq back in January 1998. "We urge you to... enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world," stated the letter to Clinton, signed by Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and others. "That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power." (For full text of the letter, see www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm) Invading Iraq is not a new idea for the Bush clique currently in power. http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/2003/01/27/news/local/5025024.htm?1c Bush has manipulated the so called "morally righteous" into being his voting vehicles -- thusly enabling him to help the PNAC carry out their necon plans. These pathetic "god-fearing" people who have recently voted Bush into office are afraid of the wrong people -- stop worrying about how gay people are going to ruin the world and face reality and realize who truly the morally corrupt individuals in this world are. Oh yes, but that would call for you unintelligent people having to conduct your own research and thinking for yourselves -- oh but I don’t have time to read and think for myself ... so I'll just watch the 9 o clock news -- they'll tell me the real story -- they wouldn’t lie to me -- oh and Bush wouldn’t reinstate the draft -- right ... that's why they've had all these "contingency meetings" about this issue ... right? If you doubt any of this go to any major governmental website such as the Department of Homeland Security, Secret Services, the FBI and see for yourselves that they are having a hard time recruiting Linguistic and Technically skilled individuals. You want a real dose of reality ... Go read about the PNAC [Project for a New American Century] and you will soon discover what we are REALLY doing over in Iraq -- Cheney and his other PNAC cohorts are aiming to take over the entire Middle East! They have been planning this for years -- people! Read here and educate yourselves: http://www.newamericancentury.org/ "The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle; and that too few political leaders today are making the case for global leadership." This is part of their plan for America and the Middle East: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0304.marshall.html “The United States establishes a reasonably democratic, pro-Western government in Iraq--assume it falls somewhere between Turkey and Jordan on the spectrum of democracy and the rule of law. Not perfect, representative democracy, certainly, but a system infinitely preferable to Saddam's. The example of a democratic Iraq will radically change the political dynamics of the Middle East. When Palestinians see average Iraqis beginning to enjoy real freedom and economic opportunity, they'll want the same themselves. With that happy prospect on one hand and implacable United States will on the other, they'll demand that the Palestinian Authority reform politically and negotiate with Israel. That in turn will lead to a real peace deal between the Israelis and Palestinians. A democratic Iraq will also hasten the fall of the fundamentalist Shi'a mullahs in Iran, whose citizens are gradually adopting anti-fanatic, pro-Western sympathies. A democratized Iran would create a string of democratic, pro-Western governments (Turkey, Iraq, and Iran) stretching across the historical heartland of Islam. Without a hostile Iraq towering over it, Jordan's pro-Western Hashemite monarchy would likely come into full bloom. Syria would be no more than a pale reminder of the bad old days. (If they made trouble, a U.S. invasion would take care of them, too.) And to the tiny Gulf emirates making hesitant steps toward democratization, the corrupt regimes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt would no longer look like examples of stability and strength in a benighted region, but holdouts against the democratic tide. Once the dust settles, we could decide whether to ignore them as harmless throwbacks to the bad old days or deal with them, too. We'd be in a much stronger position to do so since we'd no longer require their friendship to help us manage ugly regimes in Iraq, Iran, and Syria.” And don’t be surprised when the new draft is instituted to support these initiatives-- the first wave will engage a massive list of 18-44 year old men & WOMEN, predominantly medical professions, Linguistics, and technically skilled people [computer techies, network admins, etc.] that has to list their skills and qualifications or face jail time and massive fines like $250,000 but they wont call it a DRAFT since that would cause massive hysteria. So the sheep can continue being sheep. BAhhh Bahhh. Doubt this is true read an official governmental document that was obtained via means of the Freedom of Information Act. http://blatanttruth.org/selective_service091304.pdf 9/11 was NOT a foreign terrorist attack -- it was planned, practiced and carried out by our OWN PEOPLE! It was the planned-out EXCUSE that PNAC and our Administration was looking for to invade Iraq and to start their Middle-East take over. Do you really believe that we are in Iraq to fight terrorism that was related to 9/11 … think again IRAQ Had nothing to do with it … so why are we there … why has Bush taken focus off of Bin Laden, b/c that was NOT the reason why we are there – 9/11 was merely the EXCUSE to start executing PNAC initiatives. Listen to this interview with Stanely Hilton an attorney for 911 taxpayers' lawsuit. Stanley Hilton was a senior advisor to Sen Bob Dole (R) and has personally known Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz for decades. There are thousands of people who have a court case with evidence that Bush ordered 9/11 to happen. Ever wonder why we never shot down the planes that were attacking us … ever wonder why stock was sold revolving around the WTC towers, ever wonder why certain governmental workers never went to work at the WTC towers that day, ever wonder why many governmental workers cancelled flights on 9/11, ever wonder why Bush just sat there on his ass while he was being told we were being attacked? http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/091204hilton.htm Small excerpt from this interview: "Our case is alleging that Bush and his puppets Rice and Cheney and Mueller and Rumsfeld and so forth, Tenet, were all involved not only in aiding and abetting and allowing 9/11 to happen but in actually ordering it to happen. Bush personally ordered it to happen. We have some very incriminating documents as well as eye-witnesses, that Bush personally ordered this event to happen in order to gain political advantage, to pursue a bogus political agenda on behalf of the neocons and their deluded thinking in the Middle East. I also wanted to point out that, just quickly, I went to school with some of these neocons. At the University of Chicago, in the late 60s with Wolfowitz and Feith and several of the others and so I know these people personally. And we used to talk about this stuff all of the time. And I did my senior thesis on this very subject - how to turn the U.S. into a presidential dictatorship by manufacturing a bogus Pearl Harbor event. So, technically this has been in the planning at least 35 years. " In Bush’s State of the Union address in January after 9/11, Bush labeled Iraq, Iran, and North Korea an “axis of evil,” and warned that he would “not wait on events” to prevent them from using weapons of mass destruction against the United States. He reiterated his commitment to preemption in his West Point speech in June. “If we wait for threats to fully materialize we will have waited too long,” he said. “We must take the battle to the enemy, disrupt his plans and confront the worst threats before they emerge.” Although it was less noted, Bush in that same speech also reintroduced the Plan’s central theme. He declared that the United States would prevent the emergence of a rival power by maintaining “military strengths beyond the challenge.” With that, the President effectively adopted a strategy his father’s administration had developed ten years earlier to ensure that the United States would remain the world’s preeminent power. While the headlines screamed “preemption,” no one noticed the declaration of the dominance strategy. Simply put our current Administration’s plan is for the United States to rule the world. The overt theme is unilateralism, but it is ultimately a story of domination. It calls for the United States to maintain its overwhelming military superiority and prevent new rivals from rising up to challenge it on the world stage. It calls for dominion over friends and enemies alike. It says not that the United States must be more powerful, or most powerful, but that it must be absolutely powerful. http://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf 041105 ... . pax_americana 041105 ... Wake Up Seeds of light you are an idiot if you believe that "Afghanistan is now a free nation". Pure Idiot! http://hrw.org/campaigns/afghanistan/ "Since the fall of the Taliban, Human Rights Watch has documented criminality and abuses by warlord forces across the country. Local factions are not the only threat to stability. In the south and southeast of the country, Taliban remnants and other anti-government forces outside Afghanistan's political framework have further aggravated security conditions by attacking humanitarian workers and coalition and Afghan government forces. Women and girls bear some of the worst effects of Afghanistan's insecurity. Conditions are generally are better than under the Taliban, but women and girls continue to face severe governmental and social discrimination. Through intimidation and armed attacks, local warlord factions, the Taliban, and other insurgent forces have forced the closure of projects that provided desperately needed education, health, rights awareness, and job training to women and girls. Female journalists, activists, and government officials have reported death threats, harassment, and attacks for speaking out about sensitive women’s rights issues." Sounds free to me... not to mention the corruption that has taken place within their own presidential election process and with an ex Mujahedeen having power as the vice president. Do you know what happens when a president is killed? But I suppose if you have no problem with the corruption within the United States why would I expect you to care and be knowledgable about the events in another country ... You just continue to keep your head in the sand and I hope that your "Godly" appointed president comes knocking on your door someday to draft ... oh, excuse me, I mean to create the national databse of skills and that you will then finally come to see the light. But, oh you wont be scared b/c you have "faith". 041105 ... Seeds is right! And don't forget that over 600,000 people are murdered every year before they are even born. Some of which are at the hands of European women coming over here to get an abortion when they find out the gender of their child is not what they wanted! Oh, I suppose you think those murders are protected under "free rights"! Such hypocrisy 041105 ... Given *** * The_Beast_in_Freedom_and_Democracy *** Across_the_Universe of United_states America_has_lost_its_moral_high_ground 041105 ... . 15 Oct 2004 Polls Show Worsening of U.S. Reputation 24 minutes ago 041105 ... . Could_you_have_won_Ohio? The_missing_dot "Given that [the president - George_W_Bush] heads the most powerful nation in the world but that it [United_States] has the worst reputation of all time, there is a paradox," 041105 041105 ... unhinged religion honestly should have nothing to do with politics and laws in this country. period. end of story. as long as i'm not hurting you, you have no right to tell me what morals to have. fuck all you christians that feel the need to save my soul and worry about your own goddamn judgemental uncompassionate mindless soul. you are not god as much as you like to think so. but i am beginning to think that god is a fascist asshole just like you. oh and as far as the abortion issue goes, you have to keep the country populated to keep going to war to 'make the world safe for democracy' i.e. convert the rest of the world to your religious and moral beliefs. once again, you aren't the god that judges my soul. you would rather have the child born into this fucked up world that you've created, to parents that don't want it that won't take care of it and abuse it and it will grow up to be one of millions of fucked up adults contributing to the fucked up society that is america. makes sense to me. to cause more pain and suffering and misery in the world for your own financial and world gain. i think that if a woman knows their child will not be cared for properly even if it is because they cannot love it enough even if it is only because it's a girl and they want a boy, let them murder it sending it straight to god on angel's wings bypassing almost a century of misery and let that poor fucker's soul be judged at a later date. supposed christians pedaling nothing but misery for their own ends. interesting. 041105 ... Tostada al Sadr The problem is that the vast majority of the politicians who will campaign on the whole pro-life issue consistently show through the rest of their policies that once you are no longer encased in a uterus, then what happens to you is really just not their concern. If the people who campaign on that issue showed a commitment to genuinely protecting life beyond just the scope of the unborn, i'd respect them, but so far i've seen few if any who warrant that respect 041105 ... The devil made them do it Look at all the good liberals and atheists have done! Oh... wait, maybe not. Since Christian principles were removed from American public life starting in 1962: SAT scores are down 10% Teen suicide up 450% Child abuse up 2300% Illegal drugs up 6000% Criminal arrests of teens 14-17 up 150% Divorce up 350% Birth to unmarried girls under 20 up 150%. All your Anti-Christing is making my point stronger... The facts are all there, just do the research is all I ask. 041105 ... unhinged well that's how a vast majority of christians in this country are; conviently quoting the bible when it suits their own needs and forgetting about the truly compassionate and all-encompassing NONJUDGEMENTAL message of their saviour jesus christ. i have no respect for selfish fundamentalist fascists either. fundamentalists = fucktards 041105 ... kookaburra misses everything while at school Just in case "from now on" read down to here... Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. That was the christmas tree comment. Bush has often spoken of how bad the terrorists are (axis of evil, anyone?), but he hasn't ever mentioned forgiving his enemies, praying for their souls... (except maybe democrats while pretending to seek bipartisan support). Disagree with me? My challenge to you: show me an instance when bush forgave his enemies or prayed for their souls or something of the like. since bush wears his religion on his sleeve, (which incidentaly is also looked down upon in the Bible), if he has forgiven his enemies it shouldn't be too hard to find. 041105 ... U.S. What's_reality:- Why_Bush_won_and_Kerry_lost_'mental_health'___ around_and_across... ... 041105 ... from now on kookie, i think you got me mixed up with it_goes_like_this or someone else. i've read a great deal of this whole blatherypage but... i didn't say anything about christmas trees,... and, in fact, i myself do not cut down trees. furthermore, i'm not waiting for jesus or anyone else to rise from the dead... but if other folks are into that sort of thing, by all means, happy christmas trees! loves stars and angels) and shiny shiny things) 041105 ... unhinged oh yes, we can blame the falling of SAT scores since 1962 on the lack of jesus in the american public's lives or we can blame it on the fact that republicans are notorious for cutting education funding and the republican education funding cuts have been rising ever since 1962. we can blame the rising teen suicide rate on the lack of christianity or maybe possibly the whole hopelessness instilled in the youth of this country with vietnam and the draft (republican) that has only been continued with deepening societal malaise caused by the disparity of the rich and poor that is only increased by republican economic policies. and shit, i'm sure plenty of 'christian' teenagers are killing themselves for the sins that are putting them straight to hell anyways. and the increase in child abuse is also directly related to lack of christian morality in this country...can you please research the demographic in which this abuse has escalated before you can blame it on a lack of jesus in america. and i think that illegal drug use will only continue to increase in this country with our current great and wonderful moral christian leader at the helm who himself had problems with alcohol and cocaine; drug use has nothing to do with a lack of god, but a lack of hope and an increasing amount of frustration at a cruel cold world that doesn't seem to care. and the only reason divorce is up in this country is because people no longer see the need to be forced into staying in unhealthy relationships because they made a vow to god. would god honestly want those relationships to continue? yes, maybe people shouldn't enter into the institution of marriage so lightly and they shouldn't be forced to marry people they don't want to marry. divorce is not the center of amorality in this country. forcing people to be unhappy in the name of your god is pretty shitty if you ask me. and that whole birth to unmarried girls under the age of 20 being on the increase; well back before 1962 when unmarried girls under 20 got pregnant they 'went on vacation' and either had an abortion or gave the baby up for adoption often under false names. i question the validity of that statistic. and statistics can be twisted to suit anyone's ends. you site all these horrible things in relation to the lack of christianity in society when the people you uphold as good christians are the ones that make the policy that strained our society to these points. get your head out of your ass. i honestly just have no tolerance for the wasp fundamentalist conservative republicans. they can take money from the gay liberal middle class, but then they can tell us how to live and force us to uphold their moral structure. bunch of fucking hypocrites. 041105 ... . Go stork daddy! I've been trying to figure the conservative Christian right for some time now. What are your modivations? Its not like when the liberals are in power you are restricted from living your life the way you want and teaching your children what you believe. I think, when it comes down to it, many of the most ardent conservatives are using religion as a means of control-- not even necessarily control of other people, but control of themselves. Religion is a way to make a fight against internal demons, against desires to do things they consider wrong, external. If they can extend a rigid external social system to themselves and the people immediately surrounding them, the danger of doing these things is lessened. From this perspective, it would be hard not assume that all people have the same desires that must be repressed. this is one of the basic tenants of many faiths, that all people are sinners. You're afraid that without the rigid system of external morality people will do the things you seem to want to. And far worse, it would be harder to keep yourself from doing these things too. Among you are the same people who were dissappointed to find that the world didn't end in the year 2000. You look forward to the end of the world-- which might be why the environment doesn't matter to you so much. To be given a chance to fight on the good side and then be taken away from this life before you have a chance to blemish it is a double shot at Heaven. This view on life is confusing (and slightly frightening) to me. I don't believe that if someone managed to convince the world that god didn't exist that everyone in the world would turn homosexual or start killing each other. I personally don't live within the external constraints of religion, and yet I never tried drugs, I try to foster my community, I have close friends and family I'm crazy about, I waited until I met the man I'm going to be with for the rest of my life to have sex and we plan to cherish the children we hope to have. I waited until I was 21 to drink alcohol, and even then I don't drink to excess. I ditched high school ONCE in my entire career and then immediately regretted it. And I never never never want to hurt other people if I can help it. I want to leave the world a better place. I'm a very boring person. Point is, I wouldn't want to do the stuff you call "sin" anyway, and I'm not the only one. I have a hard time understanding how you can impose morality by imposing the political stance of a religious entity. And to me, imposing such things on other people seems wrong. I'm not trying to bash religion by any means. I just don't understand your particular brand of it, and apparently you represent the majority of people in this country. Am I way off the mark in trying to understand the way you feel? 041105 ... tyler waters Moral Values? Abortion. Im not going to get into abortion as I am against beating a horse to death. Family. Is it just me, or are most families NOT the ideal atomic family? AND YA KNOW WHAT? I bet all those perfect atomic families voted for Bush because they believe that he is a morally outstanding christian. One that would never hurt another soul. Never kill it was a LAST RESORT. Yea, Im sure he's a good guy. Marriage. why don't they outlaw divorce? wouldn't that solidify the "sanctity of marriage" ? Life/Freedom "Let me live my life the way i want to" Should not gay people have the right to the freedom to fuck eachother up the asses? I mean, call me a bleeding-hearted liberal, but I would say "freedom" is a VERY strong word. I am free. Free to do anything I want. INCLUDING KILLING MY UNBORN CHILD. Oh oops.. "THAT IS WHY THIS ELECTION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN DECADES" oh and you guys fucked up that one, didn't you? Clearly evil won out over incompetence. "Rome fell because it spread itself too thin, because its government was based on military might and constantly demanded new wars." Hahaha.. Is it just me, or is America follow the same trend? "If people opposed the Revolutionary War, which was also waged and fought by Christians, our great nation would not even be discussing this election!" Actually these days they call it "The American War for Independance". There wasn't much of a revolutionary change in politics or policy. You would be paying higher taxes on tea sugar and stamps. Hahah.. and there were people opposed to that war, they were called United Empire Loyalists (http://www.uelac.org/). They either fled to Canada or were killed. I'd like to now compare the US to Canada (where we didn't feel the need to fight off the british) Hey look! we've got elections too! AND we don't have a reliance on guns OR fighting people in foreign countries. move_to_canada. 041109 ... why Not ? 041109 ... Given Osama's_historic_mission_111 041109 ... canuck girl eh didn't feel the need to fight off the british? tell that to my old dead ancestors who died fighting the british 041109 ... i mean they would probably have a good laugh) 041109 ... p2 tyler i am pro-choice but your argument does not hold if you are free to kill your unborn child why are you not free to kill your born child? that is the underlying issue by calling it your "unborn child" you have already given it life this contentious point is what divides the two sides and never the twain shall meet furthermore do not try to degrade the revolutionary war it was indeed revolutionary for a colony to throw off its yoke and declare itself independent as for moving to canada it seems tempting at first but it's actually very stupid if all the democrats & liberals moved to canada the us would become the jesusland that it is already accused of being people like you who say we fucked up the election don't seem to understand the purpose of elections which is to provide representation for all of its citizens where there will never be a consensus on issues 59.5 million voted for bush 56 million did not remember that when you make your next generalization 041109 ... kx21 * Moment_of_truth * Male - "The_Mind_of_United_States" 55 Percent for Bush vs. Female - "The_Rule_of_Law" 51 Percent for Kerry 041114 what's it to you? who go blather from