boingdy boing! denial is an even bigger country than I previously imagined.

we think it can be back to the way it was... we tell each other this over and over again.

as you go away, I know this is not the case.

you aren't mine anymore. you never were.

you will always be hers, though.
Midnight Bliss what does the word mean? does it mean that you'll be there for one another? does it mean that you'll be honest to one another, pay attention to one another? although that's what it means, it's not always how your "friends" act. friends are supposed to be there for each other, and they are supposed to be honest with each other, but sometimes, you just convince each other you're friends and you really aren't. be honest and don't stray ppl along. 000320
dean-bean *honk* the friendship is now boarding. Get on or get off. 000330
girl friendship is seriously risky business. i had friends all through school and every time something goes bad. i had friends in college and that went bad too. i think it is much better to have aquaintences and alies. keep the emotion level down and dont confide personal info. i think this is a good method to follow because i still have people to hang out with and people i can go to for help but if it goes bad it wont hurt anyone. 000403
birdmad "Once i had a good friend/
I knew him for quite a while/
He seemed alright to me/
Then he was gone
He took my money and time
And then he went away/
Taking all that was mine/

and leaving me far behind.

Oh Well/
Things crumble to an end/
Hell, we all die in the end
(die in the end)
(die in the end)

Once i had a girlfriend
I knew her for quite a while
She seemed alright to me
And then she was gone
She took my lovin' and time
And then she ran away
Taking all that was mine

And leaving me far behind
(leaving me far behind)

Oh, Well!
Things crumble to an end
Hell, we all die in the end

(die in the end
Die in the end
Die in the end...)"

copyright 1983, biafra/flouride/peligro
dead kennedys/alternative tentacles
quite obviously without permission
Rainer them keep telling me I'm missing so much

but I don't believe them, never I do.
cazzi friendship is the best gift someone can give you...even though it's not really a gift. it's just there. 001230
birdmad call me morbid or absurd

but for me
coming from you
silentbob that huge boat thats sinking and burning in the gigantic sea of forgotten memories 010101
SCOTT I have discovered that friendship is a lie as is truth and hope
and yes my friends
dreams are lies as well
if not-
they die
like a silent fog
frozen in a crystal snofall
chanaka "we're just friends" she points out
yeah right
what kind of friendship is this.....
snow_angel Dana, andi, Amber, amanda, amanda stephanie, chelsea, trisha, ashley, NICOLE...and Bridgette. Probably the best friends a girl could ask for. No matter what theyre always there and we have our down tymes but I know that they are true sweethearts. They have taught me so much about myself and what i can do to effect people. I have had the most amazing memories with these girls and I hope thatI will continue to keep on forming memories. 010605
Dafremen MAN do I wanna know what book all of THOSE names came from.
Sound's like the Days of Our Lives Complete Book of Baby Names.
Dafremen see also: My_Name_Is 010605
Dafremen Make that: My_First_Name_Is 010605
nocturnal at work HAHA! you screwed up, too. 010605
Dafremen Hey, a gentleman never let's a lady f*ck up alone. 010605
nocturnal at work much appreciated. 010605
holly i love my friends
glenna the most
she is the best
then comes john
he is my honey
i couldn't live without either of them
Moondance We're friends, although we shouldn't be.
He calls me his soulmate.
But I'm not sure. Isn't that just someone he'd like to fuck, but can't because he's married?
data My neural pathways have become accustomed to your sensory input patterns. 020106
Photophobe end is the part of the word
that I heard
call me morbid or absurd
kerry ... is important 020106
stacey i have probubly the best friendship in the world until i screwed everything up!..I cant believe i said sorry amy I luv u forever your my best friend! i hope u and tyler get back together soon 020524
stacey "when i find myself fading, i close my eyes and realize my friends are my energy.'
"the road to a friends house is never long.
"friends are treasures."
"an insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast;a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind."
"the only way to have a friend is to be one."
"he who as a thousands friends,
has not a friend to spare,
he who has one enemy
shall meet him everywhere."
"a friend is one who loves you and knows you just the same."
"be courtious to all, but intimate with few. be well tried before you give them your confidence. true friendship is a plant of slow grow, and must undergo and withstand the shoks of adversity before it is entitled to the appellation."
"true friend stab you in the front."
Ariadani yeah, and i thought that friends talked to each other. i guess i was wrong.

*sigh* so much for friends.
Insat True friends are hard to find. Better having one true friend than lots of aquaintances. 030217
kyle2 I HATE friends... i can't ever find one who i can call my best friend... i had one, but now she never talks to me anymore, i had another but now he hates me and i don't know why, one day he punched me in the face, after all i did for him. Now i like this girl, she just wants to be friends... FUCK THAT, i have never liked anyone as much as i liked her. She later tells me that she likes my friend and wants me to hook them up i mean FUCK!!! i have very strong feelings for her and she walks all over me. The sad part is, i still love her. I can't live without her. I'd rather be friends than not ever met her because i will always love her. TARA IF U EVER READ THIS I LOVE YOU AND I WANT TO BE WITH YOU FOREVER... i'm so sorry... i'm so depressed... i'm so pathetic 030619
Spare Change When you fall in love with friends your heart is on a plate, when you know they can't love you the same. when you understand their soul, but they won't let you in their head. When they lock you out of their heart, but allow you in their bed.

Remember your friendship. Be what you always were, just be this as well.
once again It's not a promise you make with your head, not one that can be broken with the passing of time. It's a promise you make with your soul, without ever meaning to, one that cannot be broken. 031010
pipedream either i have faith, or i'm just stupid. 031011
Dafremen Faith is stupidity to those who don't have any. 031011
pipedream you think? that kept my faith floating today, that thought. 031012
ferret is the SINGLE most important thing in life 031012
Sam Vaknin What are friends for and how can a friendship be tested? By behaving altruistically, would be the most common answer and by sacrificing one's interests in favour of one's friends. Friendship implies the converse of egoism, both psychologically and ethically. But then we say that the dog is "man's best friend". After all, it is characterized by unconditional love, by unselfish behaviour, by sacrifice, when necessary. Isn't this the epitome of friendship? Apparently not. On the one hand, the dog's friendship seems to be unaffected by long term calculations of personal benefit. But that is not to say that it is not affected by calculations of a short-term nature. The owner, after all, looks after the dog and is the source of its subsistence and security. Peopleand dogshave been known to have sacrificed their lives for less. The dog is selfishit clings and protects what it regards to be its territory and its property (including – and especially so - the owner). Thus, the first condition, seemingly not satisfied by canine attachment is that it be reasonably unselfish.

There are, however, more important conditions:

For a real friendship to existat least one of the friends must be a conscious and intelligent entity, possessed of mental states. It can be an individual, or a collective of individuals, but in both cases this requirement will similarly apply.
There must be a minimal level of identical mental states between the terms of the equation of friendship. A human being cannot be friends with a tree (at least not in the fullest sense of the word).
The behaviour must not be deterministic, lest it be interpreted as instinct driven. A conscious choice must be involved. This is a very surprising conclusion: the more "reliable", the more "predictable" – the less appreciated. Someone who reacts identically to similar situations, without dedicating a first, let alone a second thought to ithis acts would be depreciated as "automatic responses".
For a pattern of behaviour to be described as "friendship", these four conditions must be met: diminished egoism, conscious and intelligent agents, identical mental states (allowing for the communication of the friendship) and non-deterministic behaviour, the result of constant decision making.

A friendship can beand often is – tested in view of these criteria. There is a paradox underlying the very notion of testing a friendship. A real friend would never test his friend's commitment and allegiance. Anyone who puts his friend to a test (deliberately) would hardly qualify as a friend himself. But circumstances can put ALL the members of a friendship, all the individuals (two or more) in the "collective" to a test of friendship. Financial hardship encountered by someone would surely oblige his friends to assist himeven if he himself did not take the initiative and explicitly asked them to do so. It is life that tests the resilience and strength and depth of true friendships – not the friends themselves.

In all the discussions of egoism versus altruismconfusion between self-interest and self-welfare prevails. A person may be urged on to act by his self-interest, which might be detrimental to his (long-term) self-welfare. Some behaviours and actions can satisfy short-term desires, urges, wishes (in short: self-interest) – and yet be self- destructive or otherwise adversely effect the individual's future welfare. (Psychological) Egoism should, therefore, be re-defined as the active pursuit of self- welfare, not of self-interest. Only when the person caters, in a balanced manner, to both his present (self-interest) and his future (self-welfare) interestscan we call him an egoist. Otherwise, if he caters only to his immediate self-interest, seeks to fulfil his desires and disregards the future costs of his behaviourhe is an animal, not an egoist.

Joseph Butler separated the main (motivating) desire from the desire that is self- interest. The latter cannot exist without the former. A person is hungry and this is his desire. His self-interest is, therefore, to eat. But the hunger is directed at eatingnot at fulfilling self-interests. Thus, hunger generates self-interest (to eat) but its object is eating. Self-interest is a second order desire that aims to satisfy first order desires (which can also motivate us directly).

This subtle distinction can be applied to disinterested behaviours, acts, which seem to lack a clear self-interest or even a first order desire. Consider why do people contribute to humanitarian causes? There is no self-interest here, even if we account for the global picture (with every possible future event in the life of the contributor). No rich American is likely to find himself starving in Somalia, the target of one such humanitarian aid mission.

But even here the Butler model can be validated. The first order desire of the donator is to avoid anxiety feelings generated by a cognitive dissonance. In the process of socialization we are all exposed to altruistic messages. They are internalized by us (some even to the extent of forming part of the almighty superego, the conscience). In parallel, we assimilate the punishment inflicted upon members of society who are not "social" enough, unwilling to contribute beyond that which is required to satisfy their self interest, selfish or egoistic, non-conformist, "too" individualistic, "too" idiosyncratic or eccentric, etc. Completely not being altruistic is "bad" and as such calls for "punishment". This no longer is an outside judgement, on a case by case basis, with the penalty inflicted by an external moral authority. This comes from the inside: the opprobrium and reproach, the guilt, the punishment (read Kafka). Such impending punishment generates anxiety whenever the person judges himself not to have been altruistically "sufficient". It is to avoid this anxiety or to quell it that a person engages in altruistic acts, the result of his social conditioning. To use the Butler scheme: the first-degree desire is to avoid the agonies of cognitive dissonance and the resulting anxiety. This can be achieved by committing acts of altruism. The second-degree desire is the self-interest to commit altruistic acts in order to satisfy the first-degree desire. No one engages in contributing to the poor because he wants them to be less poor or in famine relief because he does not want others to starve. People do these apparently selfless activities because they do not want to experience that tormenting inner voice and to suffer the acute anxiety, which accompanies it. Altruism is the name that we give to successful indoctrination. The stronger the process of socialization, the stricter the education, the more severely brought up the individual, the grimmer and more constraining his superego – the more of an altruist he is likely to be. Independent people who really feel comfortable with their selves are less likely to exhibit these behaviours.

This is the self-interest of society: altruism enhances the overall level of welfare. It redistributes resources more equitably, it tackles market failures more or less efficiently (progressive tax systems are altruistic), it reduces social pressures and stabilizes both individuals and society. Clearly, the self-interest of society is to make its members limit the pursuit of their own self-interest? There are many opinions and theories. They can be grouped into:

Those who see an inverse relation between the two: the more satisfied the self interests of the individuals comprising a societythe worse off that society will end up. What is meant by "better off" is a different issue but at least the commonsense, intuitive, meaning is clear and begs no explanation. Many religions and strands of moral absolutism espouse this view.
Those who believe that the more satisfied the self-interests of the individuals comprising a societythe better off this society will end up. These are the "hidden hand" theories. Individuals, which strive merely to maximize their utility, their happiness, their returns (profits) – find themselves inadvertently engaged in a colossal endeavour to better their society. This is mostly achieved through the dual mechanisms of market and price. Adam Smith is an example (and other schools of the dismal science).
Those who believe that a delicate balance must exist between the two types of self-interest: the private and the public. While most individuals will be unable to obtain the full satisfaction of their self-interest – it is still conceivable that they will attain most of it. On the other hand, society must not fully tread on individuals' rights to self-fulfilment, wealth accumulation and the pursuit of happiness. So, it must accept less than maximum satisfaction of its self-interest. The optimal mix exists and is, probably, of the minimax type. This is not a zero sum game and society and the individuals comprising it can maximize their worst outcomes.

The French have a saying: "Good bookkeeping – makes for a good friendship". Self-interest, altruism and the interest of society at large are not necessarily incompatible.
Dafremen Perhaps you cannot know what you have left here. Maybe it will only be, upon further reflection, your thoughts that you see reflected, your notions and ideas that appear to you as having been imprinted upon my heart.

There was more here than you could have possibly known that you had left behind, however.

Upon reading, my thoughts turned to friendship, and to friends I have known both animal and human, both past and present.

In particular, I was drawn to memories of a certain dog by the name of Capi'tan. I don't live where Capi'tan does anymore, but he remembers me, and he walks beside me as I go down the street. If our paths cross, he swerves his direction and matches it to mine.

"Capi'tan HuhHH huHH" I'll say to him, when he does this as he has done so many times before.

He is skinny, for there are none of the scraps we used to leave for him. He is old and his eyesight has begun to fail him. He is gaunt, but he walks proud, and he is free. He is an animal of the street, of the concrete wilderness and true to his own spirit.

There is no food for him come from my hand anymore. I do not feed strays, and the landlady where we live has her own dog, a huge, muscular animal that would no doubt dispense with Capti'tan in a matter of moments. (I have my own way of greeting him as well. "Uhhh Bububububuhhh" I'll say and he'll wag his tail and tremble with greeting.)

But Capi'tan and I share a bond. A bond forged over the course of a year that I lived in that other house. He hasn't forgotten the occasional treat, but he doesn't seek that. You can see it in his eyes and in his manner of continuing his search for food, nose down, sweeping back and forth.

Yet for a few moments, when we meet, he is with me..accompanying me to my front gate. (Unless of course some attractive young bitch happens along, in which case, as I mentioned, Capi'tan is a free spritit and his OWN dog. He will look back at me as if to say "Goodbye" on such occasions. Then he follows his freedom and his heart and his desire, as animals are want to do.)

Capi'tan accompanies me, for the same reason that I allow him to. He is my friend, and I am his. We share common memories and recall another time when we were brought together by fate, when I first said to him, "Capi'tan HuhHH huHH", touched the top of his head and acknowledged his existence. When I first reached out to let him know that his being here with me in this existence actually mattered and that I meant him no harm other than a few moments of his time, that we might look into each others eyes and connect. I love that animal, and it loves me and there is no pack instinct between us, because we are free spirits who would not tolerate being dominated or controlled.

Your musings here reminded me of Capi'tan and there are tears coming down my cheeks as these words stream off of my fingertips. Thank you.

Thank you for taking the time and for the enormous amount of care and thought that it appears went into this. I will always cherish it, and with your kind permission, would pass it on.

You are now my friend. I do not require that you return this feeling or this sentiment. It is obvious that there is a kindred spirit or maybe only a kindred mind at work here. In any event, for a few moments, you touched my life and reminded me of the selfless love of an old friend, and for that I now render my heart without thought of gain. Only thoughts of friendship.
myriadmoods true friendship is hard to find, and once you do never let go.
Love thyself, and then where do your true friends go?
Sadly , they turn away so,
say to yourself today,
i will be a true friend,
and keep my friend at the bay,
docked at port, forever to never go.
her royal highness the quirk friendship is overrated because no matter how well you think you know someone and no matter how close you are, it's all going to turn to shit in the end. friends will move away, stab you in the back, decide they hate you, graduate and leave. what's the point in even trying? 040131
maharey its a joke. its very hard to find a truefull friend 040201
just_me is a sheltering tree
-samuel taylor coleridge
kennedy isn't always forever 040706
spiffy someone who is always there for you. someone who knows all about you but likes you anyway. someone who you could tell anything. someone who sees the good in you and will remind you of it when you need it. someone who always knows how to make you smile. when the silences in a conversation don't become awkward.

maybe that is just too much to ask for.

i have had many "friends." few of which were real, true friends. i think i might have two now, but i'm not sure. i can never confidantly say that i have friends. i am too insecure and can't imagine how anyone could ever like me or care about me. i think that i am not a good friend. i feel like i am undeserving of friendship if i can't be a good friend myself. i try though, in my own, subtle way. i just have a hard time opening up to people. i will never, never reach out to them, they must come to me.

but they don't. and if they do i will just push them way because i am afraid. that is why i have no idea how anyone ever got me to let them in. maybe it takes a special kind of person.

people think i don't enjoy their company because i just sit there in my silence. so they leave me alone thinking that is what i want. but it isn't. i am so lonely that i appreciate company probably more than most. i just... well like i have said before, i have the social skills of a walnut. i almost never speak without being spoken to first. and even when i am i will probably only really respond if i was asked a question. if anyone just tells me something about themselves, or something like that, i just don't know what to say. or if i do i don't say it because... i guess because i am afraid.

i am afraid to let my opinion be heard, to express myself. i might be judged if i do. if i just stick to simple things like saying "ok" if someone asks me how i am, there is less of me expressed, and less chance to be judged, to be hurt. less of me put out there where i am vulnerable.

but that is exactly what i want. i want a place where i feel safe to be vulnerable. i want someone who i can talk to and not be afraid, to just be myself. i have been hurt and let down a lot in the past so it is hard to trust someone enough. i am always doubting that trust, questioning it, testing it. pulling on the rope to make sure it won't break before climbing up it.

only one of my friends do i really talk to. i am still working on feeling completely comfortable. maybe i never will. i still can't confidantly say that are my friend. why is that?

because i might scare them away.

i'm sure no one understands that logic. i'm not certain if i really do. but now i am just rambling and no one wants to read this anyways. so i will stop.
kookaburra woah spiffy.
its like i wrote this (ok, so what you wrote it better) and signed my name spiffy.
just so you know, youre not alone in what you feel.
spiffy i'm not?

that is a relief.
oldephebe Like all things, roads and rivers, some of them; most friendships eventually just peter out. It's great when an estranged or ex-friend puts on this oscar worthy performance infront of his wife to you know show how much of a great guy they are and how "distressed" they are over the state of your apparent and inexplicable self imposed estrangement. And you want to say "Last night I prayed for falcons to scream from the sky and tear your face." But you don't though. You smile tightly and hold back the terrible noise building in the back of your mouth and try to gracefully extricate yourself and bolt for the supermarket check out line with whatever you've got in your cart.

Yeah! Here's to f***king friendship!
*hoists glass gasoline and hurls it upon the burning pyre of our friendship*

Let's not disintern that decaying corpse again for the benefit of our conscience's or the approval of our families. All the virtuosities of cunning or the sting of regret couldn't breath life back into the body of that dead thing. YOUR ego, your malice your nearly sociopathic indifferance is what brokered the bitterness between us. The house has fallen! And no art no skill no shade of magic no verisimilitude or panting pantomime of honest true words can build it again. In your grudging inpenitant hand you hold the seed that begot the birth of this unyielding rancor that now separates us, you hold the seed in your clenched fist and hide it from the last remnant of that great heart that once compelled me to call you brother. And now whatever remains stands as cold as snow in shadow.
oldephebe her words were at my heart like great iron talons tearing the tenderly muscled breast

or maybe... her words were iron talons clawing at my chest...
oE her words were iron talons at my heart 040713
Splinty Before I left, I graffitied my own message. With a
black sharpie I wrote 'Only Friends?" and walked
away, still wondering.
beautifuldyzaster Words escape me
At this moment
That seems like the end
Yet it is only the beginning
When friendships are close
And dreams are far
You were there for me
neesh On this ship of friends
if your heart sank
I would gladly walk the plank
and dive five fathoms
into your sea of troubles.

John Hegley
emmi the GARLIC is a friend of the CARROTS
the CARROTS are friends of the POTATO
the ONION is fickle and cannot decide where her loyalties lie and has hence formed a LOVELESS but PRACTICAL alliance with everyone except the BROCCOLI. do not ask about the BROCCOLI it will only MAKE YOU CRY

or so says one of the sweetest cards i have ever gotten
belly fire I read back on an old red-blathe of mine and had to laugh.
Everything fit almost perfectly into one box.
It's not funny, it's sad.
An open-ended question (rhetorical, it seems) left unanswered.
Realise that people are flawed.
When you consider a freind a freind, remember that they very well may do things you don't understand and find offensive. A freind, a true friend, is the person who sticks around anyway. Freindship, TRUE freindship, is holding onto eachother whether either of you makes dumb mistakes or acts like a jerk on occassion. Exceptance and love is a two way street. Way to many people put the people their happy to be around onto a scale, and the moment it starts to tip they dump them, blaming them all the while. You don't understand freindship OR love if inconvieniances are enough to condemn.

You have to be the kind of freind you would want to have. If I made mistakes, or weren't as smart, or accident prone, or maybe just dealt a shitty hand and have a few attitude problems because of it, I would still want someone to like me and be around me and do things with me. I would want someone to be there despite those things to help me when I fell, to listen to me when I just needed to talk at someone, and to smile when I felt blue. Thats the kind of freind I am to my, strangely enough, freinds.

Despite the shit, despite the dishonesty, despite the crappy moves, I still love you guys, and I'll be right here if you need me. I've done some shitty things myself, acted like an asshole, even took advantage of situations before, but you stuck by me, too.

Thats freindship.

So you look at yourself, really look and ask yourself: Am I the kind of friend a freind would like to have?
pete (are you spelling friend wrong on purpose LS?)


capable of bridging spaces, mental or otherwise, and enduring under the cover of dust for years

Yay, I was.

*tries to look innocent*
LS Did I make any sense at all on that?

Because I still believe every word of it.
endo Dear Angel,

I’m really sorry that I hurt you so much. I had no idea that I would fall for you like this. I love you too much and I really want you to be happy. You deserve the best and I know that I’m not the best for you. I know you don’t share my feelings and that’s ok.
I shouldn’t have let my feelings overwhelm me like that. I had no idea I felt like this, not until I found out that you may have feelings for someone else. It aches so much, knowing that I burdened in this way. I should’ve kept my heart locked away like I’m used to doing.
I really don’t want to lose you as a friend. You have a good heart and soul. I’d much rather be alone and depressed for the rest of my life than to hurt you in any way. I’d gladly, without hesitation accept a life of being dead inside, if it means that you’d be happy. I don’t deserve you. I deserve death. You deserve so many good things. I’m unlovable. I’ve accepted that. I realize that you said that I’m a great guy, but you’re too damned nice to tell me otherwise.
I wished that you loved me or even liked me for that matter (the way I want you to). I wish I could hear your voice, your laughter. I’ve accepted that it’s not meant to be. I’ve accepted my life.
You told me that I deserve to be happy, but I don’t thinks so. I don’t deserve anything good. I don’t even deserve your friendship.
nom it was so cool reconnecting with jen last month, we hadn't talked in a very too long time

we said we'd get together again soon, but haven't yet. we've both been busy. i need to give her a call

i don't want to lose touch again, with her or anyone.

i've lost touch with so many.

n still isn't talking to me
and i don't know why not. and i've lost touch with jesse in italy.
nom i guess it's not just that i've been busy, cause i haven't really been too busy, i've just been too broke to do much at times, and sad at other times, and yes happy and busy at other times. but i will call her,...i promise myself. 070329
Ouroboros When I call and say I really want to come but the buses don't run that late between Venice Beach and West Hollywood, that my friend, is your cue to say, "Oh i'll pick you up! I really want to see you and we're not that far apart." Not, "oh well, maybe let's talk tomorrow, but my other friend is here and I have to go now." Thanks a bunch old friend. 070331
somebody When a friend's low self-esteem begins to hinder oneself, is it better to be loyal to them and stagnate, or be loyal to oneself and proceed towards self-actualization? Suddenly I must draw a line and I'm not sure I'm in the mood... but there it is, this situation. 070401
tessa i thought i understood
i thought i was good at it

i thought it was enough
to mean well and be honest

i have no idea
Irish Proverb There is no need like the lack of a friend. 071208
what's it to you?
who go