america_is_going_to_hell magdalena *!* Is it just me, or is Bush going to end up killing us all? All hat and no cattle. I find it disturbing.I stayed home from school today , and that rather annoying special report music comes up and Colin Powell is talking about how Iraq is breaching the terms set on them by the U.N. And how America is one step closer to war. Personaly, I find that *most* Americans are fat, lazy and stupid...and going to war...I don't like that idea. Especialy with the Shrub (Bush) as president. He's going to kill us all, and the rest of the fucking world while he's at it. I keep losing my train of thought. Does anyone have anything to add to this? 021219 ... a voice from somewhere Well, everything will fall apart eventually anyway. True, Bush sucks and won't be doing us any favors, but no one can _save_ America either. 021219 ... magdalena It's going to happen sooner than it needs to. I think that we need a govt. that is more intelligent. Don't get me wrong, I like the govt. Or the idea of it. I just don't like the way it's run. And who it's run by. 021219 ... magdalena Daffy , what do you think. You always seem to have a very good grasp on things. :) 021219 ... a voice from somewhere DAFFY?! a GOOD GRASP on things?!!!! sorry, but I'm gonna choke on laughter about that one if I don't get the fuck out of this blathe, so toota-fuckin'-loo. 021219 ... screwing for virginity bush wont kill us all. if we all die, who will he have left to rob of freedom? who will buy the oil? and hwo will get him elected again (i dont know how, but i know it will happen)? 021219 ... magdalena well, at least he has some better views on things than you seem to appear to. So. 021219 ... magdalena The rest of the world will buy the oil... the US isn't the *only* country that needs it. *shrug* The shrub really can't rob people of freedom. It's just that he's so obsessed with starting a war because ( in my opinion mind you...) "oh gawd, sadam hussien tried to kill my daddy so I want to get my revenge" Mew...*sigh* 021219 ... Magdalena If people were *smart* they wouldn't elect him again. (what sucks is I turn 18 four days after the '04 election. Not like my vote will affect anything...but still...) If Americans had gone with their consious...they would have voted for Nader. ( Or whoever was candidate for the Green party. ) Techicaly, Bush really didn't win in the first place. 021219 ... Rhin maybe Bush is an ex-Blatherskite! 021219 ... magdalena hahahahhah... he's not smart enough 021219 ... jane buxh=redneckk 021219 ... jane i, um, meant to have that x there instead of the s 021219 ... phil I think we need to take the government further, the founders didn't plan on people running the country by sitting on their asses. They wanted people who were thinkers who would continue creating a government that eliminates all these positions of power! i voted no to the war, nobody noticed theory: if that Osama guy dropped dead things would be better. every little ounce of energy we can save and love we give will multiply, even if those people may appear crude at first... destruction will only lead us to despair. 021220 ... jane fighting fire with fire everything burns down fighting hate with hate everything is destroyed and there is no victory what happened to fighting with love? 021220 ... magdalena People in the Army don't want to potrayed as hippies I don't think. Maybe that's why they don't fight with love. Although I think that it's a good idea to fight with the love. But it doesn't work, Iraq forgets to call and lies to The U.S. Then cheats with some other dirty country slut. And then it turns into a bitch fight. lol Then again , war is something that has always happened in the past. Even among animals (sort of.) Kinda reminds me of Animal Farm. ... I don't know why. It just does. Bush *is* a redneck. I hate him. ...grr. I would have rather had Clinton be elected a 3rd term( even though you can't do that anymore. It's really a shame sometimes. Yeah he was a dirty dirty little man at times. But at least he wouldn't be pulling this shit that The shrub is pulling. He is a very smart man-except when it comes to women with huge boobs and strong mouth muscles- hehe.) 021220 ... loserbaby w00t! 021221 ... silentbob i don't think the world is going to change that much in the near future. i don't think bush is going to kill everyone. it's like you blame bush for other countries' stupidity. like... if bush does something stupid, someone else will do something stupid. but if bush does something stupid, hopefully the other countries will respond intelligently. if they don't, then the blame won't be entirely on bush. it's not like bush founded the country. its not like bush got us to where we are today. its been a long line of corrupt murdering hypocrites. so like yeah. and i don't think anyones "view" is better than anyone else. there's only you and what you make the truth. if someone disagrees with you that doesn't make your view "better" because obviously they think their view is better. So. 021221 ... magdalena I'm not saying that other countries are going to do something stupid , just because bush does something. I'm saying that he has poor judgement. He really does. How exactly can you fight a war on terrorism?? That's a bunch of shit right there. Shit, on 9/11 we ( the US ) had it coming quite honestly. Now I'm not saying that it's a good thing that people lost their lives. And I do have sympathy for them and thier families. They were the innocent ones. But none the less. The US acts like it's the end of the world that this happend to us , and now we need revenge. (Seemingly) And how many times in other countries do terrorism attacks occur? How many MORE lives are lost at a single attack? 5 thousand? more than that?? And of course we act as if it doesn't matter , and that it's their tough shit. Safety in boxes... shit... As soon as it hit American soil , then the US started giving a shit. And the other things were tucked away in a corner and never spoken of again. I apoligise, I'm not making much sense... I'm rather tired and I can't type out *exactly* what I'm thinking. lol 021222 ... phil the world is changing 021222 ... tourist The U.S. Is always going in and Half ass fixing the World, Supplying Arms to dictators as long as it suits our cause, Destabilizing regions so we can extract the rescources...Then We act surprised when it comes back to Bite us in the Butt! Oh yeah, How many weapons of Mass Destruction Do We Have? We could End Life on Earth and You Know it! 021223 ... frustrated little girl That's what scares me. Bush has the power to blow the world up. There is no reason to do it. The point of the American Army is to protect and serve America and it's citizens... And It's Bushes' responsibility too. He's not doing a very good job. He'll end up killing everyone... 021223 ... megan i don't agree with any of you. i like bush. he stands for what he thinks, which is more than what any of you could do. you're all safe and comfortable sitting at your little computer screens, agreeing with total strangers, simply because they have evoked emotion out your poor pitiful hearts. bush has a large job, he's the freakin President, i mean c'mon guys, lighten up. you all are common janes and joes, while bush is out there running the largest power in the world. have some respect and decency. maybe our country wouldn't be so bad-off if people would unite behind our leaders and put petty differences aside. there is such a thing as forgiveness still. 021224 ... birdmad there's a difference between respect and blind obedience. so i'm supposed to sit here in reverential awe of a guy just because he was born wealthy and had the highest office in the country handed to him by his father's men? sorry, i don't buy that. sitting in the Oval Office is not a blank check to be able to carry out an agenda and expect everyone to just eat up what is being shoveled out. he doesn't stand for anything except what the corporate interests he represent want him to stand for. What all of the flag-wavers like to ignore is that no-one disagrees that Saddam Hussein is a piece of shit who has done all manner of nasty things to his own people and his neighbors, but then the same can be said of our allies in the region too, so where is the validity of that argument? Saddam is playing to Muslims the same way Bush plays to "patriotic americans." Neither is really a friend to the element they are counting on the most violent support from. Bush talks about "freedom" and plays on fears about national security while approving of an agency that brings America closer to being a blatant police-state. Saddam plays on the notion of America being anti-Islam even though he himself persecutes Muslims of other sects outside of Iraq's Sunni majority (common thread: if they ain't like us we gotta kill 'em or find some other way to keep 'em down) i'm supposed to respect this guy? i'm supposed to put what i know behind me and just bask in the glow of President Oil-Man's glowing wholesome goodness? sorry, i don't buy that. sitting in the Oval Office is not a blank check to be able to carry out your own agenda and expect everyone to just eat up what is being shoveled out, this is just a cute distraction from the failure to catch Osama or break al-Qaida. i can guarantee that curious george's little exercise will cost us live's here at home as well, and those deaths will be a political tool to clampdown even tighter 021224 ... Rhin as citizens of the United States, it is our responsibility and duty to question our leader! he is an elected official. he speaks on behalf of our country/those who inhabit it. he should be thinking for the millions of Americans who gave him the opportunity to serve our best interests and the trust to protect all that we hold dear. respect is a 2-way street. he never had my vote, and he never will. 021224 ... magdalena respect that asshole? He can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground. He doesn't speak on behalf of the American people. If he did... he wouldn't be trying to go to war. 021225 ... megan why would he be voted in then? people, people, listen to me. all i'm asking is for you to not be so harsh with your judgements, especially when he is doing his best. he's human, just like us, it's not like he's going to be perfect, there's always going to be some negative mind who can find a fault in him. i seriously doubt anyone else could do any better. and that's my thoughts, and i'm entitled to that. 021225 ... magdalena he could honestly try a little bit harder. Just a tiny bit. 021225 ... magdalena techicaly he WASN"T voted in. The only reason he had more support was beacuse he is Bush Srs son. That is all. Who had heard of him before that? Ecept if you lived in texas. All because of his daddy. And anyone else that voted for him , they did it because they are hardcore republican. (not ALL true...) 021225 ... birdmad convenient that florida (the state where his brother is governor) was where the election hinged, convenient that the Five Supreme Court justices who voted to affirm the ruling of the Florida election board were the ones appointed to the bench by Bush Senior and Cowboy Ronnie Ray-Gun. the florida 5/4 waltz his domestic policy: what domestic policy? The budget surplus (the money the government had left over after the budgets were done) of the last few years of Bill "damn, i can't keep my zipper up" Clinton's administration has already been pissed away, that extra money Bush had the IRS give everyone wasn't a refund but a loan which people ate in this year's taxes. He and his party talk about cutting taxes to win over a sector of the public, but the only people whose taxes they ever cut are those who are being hurt the least by the existing tax structures. even though i didn't know the candidates name, i voted on principle for the libertarian ticket because i figured i didn't like Gore (His wife, Tipper and would-be VP Joe Lieberman are really just more uptight republicans in disguise) You can like and respect him all you want, Megan, but don't expect the rest of us to. like i said, being president doesn't automatically entitle someone to respect or lessen their failures 021226 ... megan i'm sorry if i came off like that, like i expected the rest of you to like him. i don't expect you to, because i do like him unlike the rest of you. all i was asking for was a little respect for this man. i understand that i cannot force my opinions on people, just as people can't force their opinions on me. i'm sorry if i was thought to be that way. somehow i always end up at the other end of the spectrum than most people. :-) but i'm happy with that. i've learned to deal. so, people, thank you for letting me express myself. 021227 ... Dafremen Thanks for the vote of confidence magdalena. I'll give the best opinion that I can. I think Bush will get what he is after and he will hurt the cause of politicians like him immeasurably. Personally, without trivializing any of your concerns, opinions or feelings, I think that none of this really matters in the end. It is foreplay to the main act. Bush, Iraq, the "War on Terror" (Read the War on Freedom or The Big Excuse) and all of this are just the prop men setting the stage for the real news story of the millenium. How many atomic bombs will it take do you think, before people stop believing that their government can, will or even SHOULD protect them? 1? 2? 6? How many terrorist acts before it becomes clear that terrorism isn't a cause, it's a symptom, like the apathy and indifference in the faces around us. These are all symptoms of a sickness that has pervaded society, one that we will no doubt recover from, probably sooner than later. (We're resilient we humans are.) It's only going to take a wake up slap that we can't ignore before we stop ignoring what our society is becoming. It's going to take a BIG slap to get us to wake up to the facts of our society's disease. Columbine wasn't enough. Oklahoma City wasn't enough. The stock market crash (Read stock market joke..or if you prefer stock market LIE) wasn't enough. Our knobjobbing, perjurying Clinton wasn't enough, neither has the increase in teen suicide, violent crime or teen pregnancy in the last 30 years been enough. Our increasing disdain for anything that matters and truly affects our lives(the laws we are forced to live by, the leaders that make those laws, the children we bring into this life, the guidance they are left to live without) feeds this sickness. Our increasing infatuation with everything that doesn't matter or truly affect our lives (sports, movies, television and the lives of the entertainers who are paid to entertain us) keeps us from looking for a cure. Bush is poking the hornet's nest with a stick and let us HOPE that it doesn't take TOO many dead bodies to help us realize that our government is not now, will not be and never was our friend or our Daddy. It is simply a greedy hand that uses OUR power against us. Democrat, Republican, Green, Communist...it doesn't matter. Whenever we give our power to a few human beings then turn away assuming that everything will be ok, stupid sh*t like Iraq, Vietnam, World War II, Korea and the Great Depression are exactly what we will get, and dare I say...deserve. No we don't deserve that. YOU don't deserve that no matter how apathetic you may or may not be. No matter how sick and twisted the world around you may get and no matter how much you might indulge that sickness, you still deserve a life free of coldness, loneliness and pain. You deserve your dignity and you deserve more than to be a f*cking worthless consumer that is seen as a statistic by some multinational corporation or a fraction of some politician's precious poll percentages. You deserve to be cared for and both you and your children deserve to be raised in a world free of this sort of greedy, ruthless, bullsh*t. You deserve to live in a world where we care for one another and by gawd, one day we'll live in a society where no other way will be acceptable. 021227 ... magdalena amen 021228 ... Aimee god, i knew that had to have been daffy.... well said 021229 ... magdalena 3 3 3 021230 ... Puffycloud Come on the U.N. is practically telling Bush that Iraq has W.O.M.D.s just that they can't find them because Iraq is hidding everything. Don't you find it odd how Iraq was so adiment about not letting UN inspectors in then all of a sudden out of the blue like a few eeks later they say "OK. Come on in buddy." And then when the UN uses helicopters to make surprise inspections on bases, factories, and palaces they are met with guns pointed in their faces and being screamed at to leave but they won't and finally like 2 or 3 days later the same base is more then happy to let them in. There was one case where the soldiers wouldnt let the inspectors in becasue they said they didn't have the key and it took them like 3 days to finally find it and then when the inspectors came in the place was completely empty. personally i think Bush is doing the right thing with Iraq. Now on the subject of the country going to hell in a hand basket yes i agree this country is fucked up and has been ever since George Washington was out of office. He was the only one who really understood and followed the Constitution to what it said. Personally i almost believe we shouldnt even have a President or if we do dont give him as much fame and power as we do. If the USA is going to be how our founding fathers thought it should be we need to make Congress the most powerful part of our govt. England has probably the best form of govt now i think; the Queen is there just for the purpose of tradition and things of that nature. She doesnt have any real power or purpose. I think that is how the US should go, there is a President but he is here only for the purpose of parades and welcoming foreign leaders. But thats just my opinion and i know someone will probably rip it apart just because they dont agree or for some other selfcentered reason. 021231 ... Seor Snottypants How do did learn such a wonderful word as "adamant" without learning how to spell it?!? 021231 ... that should be senor snottypants grrr 021231 ... magdalena Of course they have to tell him. He can't figure this shit out on his own. Bullshit or not. 021231 ... megan i agree with you Puffycloud... as for spelling, you can lay off, because his idea was right, and that's what blather was created for in the first place, if you don't remember correctly... or if you weren't there... what gives you the right to attack someone on something to small as spelling, when there are bigger issues at hand? 021231 ... ??????? Bush is stupid. But it's also stupid to think that his stupidity matters. The US president is almost as much a figurehead as the Queen of England. Whether you agree with it or not, Bush's policy is not a result of "being stupid". Rather, his policy is the coalescence of the political ideas of his advisers, who are influenced by their conservative views. There are a lot of stupid conservatives, including Bush, but there are smart ones as well. And Dafremen, you say all of that Bad Stuff is increasing, but how do you know? You paint a picture of doom and decay, but what is it based on? I think that analyzing the past and present in order to extrapolate the future is a haphazard practice at best, and ultimately, it seems that any assertion is more or less justified based on the information that one selects to present. True knowledge of broad social trends such as these--like your assertions about apathy--require an omniscience that I doubt you possess. Columbine references are a tired way of arguing for cultural apocalypse. Keep in mind, though, for every school shooting today, there was a lynching a hundred years ago. I would say that we've made progress. "America is going to hell" is an idea that's stupider than Bush could ever be. Doomsaying is easy, and fundamentally pessimistic, but more than that, it claims knowledge over issues that no one--especially laypeople--could possibly know. I found the end of your rant, Dafremen, particularly disturbing. You choose the easy targets of corporations and politicians and lament that individuals are just consumers/statistics, etc. So, what then, the corporations should love us? Corporations don't have emotions! How can a corporation love anything? A corporation is by its very nature an impersonal thing, so... it CAN'T love. And politicians... they should love us? Each and every one of us, individually? That's impossible, too. Distant entities are distant because they are distant. We can't separate such a thing from its nature, even though grammar and imagination allow us to do so. I reject the notion that there is something magical about being human and that one deserves loving kindness from nebulous, distant institutiuons like government because of that divine human special-ness. We deserve equal opportunity and human rights based on the social contract. And that's it. That's my opinion, of course. Then again, there's nothing in the constitution about love. 021231 ... magdalena Hmmmmmm... This is getting interesting. I partly agree. I'm not going to put my two cents in, mainly because I know I'm going to get shot down. 030101 ... minnesota_chris Me too. . . our country, and the corporations thereof, are all about money. No integrity or interest in the common good. You can't love a corporation, they can't love you. But a small business could. Like a restaurant owned and operated by a family, they're awesome. Compare that to Perkins or McDonalds. 030101 ... moomoocow corporations are evil 030102 ... Dafremen Our unknown friend is sticking to his motis operandi of being argumentative for the sake of contrariness. It suits him and I doubt he would be as charming if he came off any other way. Then again, his argument that the practice of comparing the past against the present is worthless, he of course presents without any supporting arguments. He can have none because the ONLY way to stand a chance in hell of knowing what's coming is to review what has come before and compare it to what is now. He knows this, any kid who has watched his big brother grow up and then noticed the sprouting of his first facial hair knows this. We are human and we have the capacity for compassion. As he points out, corporations do not have that capacity, only the humans within them do. This, again is why I attack the greedy power hungry establishment. Not, as he claims, because it is an easy target, but because the blind destructive instincts of governmental institutions and multinational corporations pose the greatest threat to humanity and to compassionate living. 030105 ... ??????? First of all, Dafremen, stop addressing me indirectly. Or don’t. I guess it doesn’t matter, and I can’t tell you what to do or anything. So whatever. Second, fuck you for saying that I’m “just being argumentative” or whatever. Pretending that you know whether or not I’m sincere makes you a worse violator of the “intentional fallacy” than just about anyone that you ever accused of the same. As far as my argument having “no examples”, and therefore being “worthless”, fuck you for that misleading overstatement as well. I guess I thought the examples would be too obvious. So let me run through my argument again: Whenever we look to the past in order to explain the present and extrapolate the future, it seems that we’re more or less justified in saying anything. In other words, we can tell any story we want: “People were smarter” (students used to read more) or “people were dumber” (the geocentric worldview, phrenology); “people were more moral” (the power and pervasiveness of the Catholic Church) or “people were less moral” (Native American genocide, slavery). So have we made progress, or are we witnessing the decline of human civilization? Based on the evidence selected, you can more or less identify any social trend that you’d like. Are those enough examples, Dafremen? I came come up with more if you’d like, but my point is that I doubt you have the omniscience necessary to foretell the future (or even understand history perfectly). Oh, yes, I know, someone once said that those who ignore the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them. Congratulations for internalizing that proverb. Understanding history, though, is different than foretelling the future. To argue by analogy that America is in decline via an analogy to the Roman Empire, for example, is easy, and maybe the analogy will turn out to be apt. Maybe. It’s POSSIBLE. It’s also possible that the US will be prosperous for another hundred years or so. Then again, every empire eventually falls. Either way, Dafremen, you don’t know where society is headed based on your understanding of history, and you don’t know the future no matter how strongly and dogmatically you believe otherwise. So you say that society is decaying. I say that I don’t know where society is going, but I’m not so narrow-minded (like you) that I can’t see the opposite possibility as an equally plausible truth. And guess what? Your corporations and compassion argument has no examples! Funny, since that’s what you said about my argument. So give me an example of how a corporation can be compassionate, Dafremen. You’re right though, that an individual (whether he’s the CEO of a corporation or not) can be compassionate. But so what? Anyone can be compassionate, and many people are (even, I’m willing to bet, some corporate executives). But corporations are what they are: non-living, non-feeling entities, which are by definition incapable of compassion. We can anthropomorphize corporations and then say that they’re “evil”, or destroying society, or condemn them with some other rhetoric inspired by Fight Club, but personally, I don’t want a corporation to hold my hand and tuck me in at night. It’s enough for me that corporations provide me with mass produced products of relatively consistent quality. That’s what they’re supposed to do, so that’s all I require of them. And I don’t pretend to know that people were “more compassionate” in times before corporations, because that’s something that I can really never know. I do know that living conditions in the Western world have improved, as has equality of opportunity in general. If you truly understood history, as you claim, you’d know that people always bitched about the decay of society, and that the visions of doomsayers don't always come to pass. Maybe that's the lesson that history truly teaches. Now, this is going to be a very easy example, and trite (I’m sure there are other applicable invectives that I’m forgetting), but let’s say you traveled back in time, to the antebellum south, and you offered a black slave a vision of modern American society. Do you think the slave would lament about how corporations have drained us of our “compassion”? No fucking way. What if we offered the same vision of the future to a 19th century immigrant after he finished a 16-hour shift in some awful factory? What about a Cherokee walking the Trail of Tears? Come on, isn’t it possible that we’ve actually made progress? Isn’t it at least POSSIBLE? Some things have certainly improved, and other things are arguably worse, but saying that “America is going to Hell” is self-indulgent bullshit (in my opinion, of course). 030106 ... Dafremen To our dear anonymous friend, I'm sorry that you are operating under the mistaken impression that this is directed at you. It is not. If I fail to address you, that is why and now you are aware of that. My error. I wish you the best in your continued search for knowledge and truth. Your efforts are admirable and as the phrenologists of old, it appears at least that you are TRYING to understand, even if your methods of gaining understanding don't seem to be producing adequate results. Daf Our friend attempts to back his statements with examples which neither support his arguments nor are they representative of the type of empirical logic that he seems to prefer. We are all probably guilty of these errors in judgement when we have a point of view to support. The fact that students read or did not read has nothing to do with their "dumbness" or lack thereof. Neither is an incomplete knowledge base evidence of stupidity.(ie. an Earthbased solar system) The trend, on the contrary, appears to be one of self correction as is evidenced by the fact that we have moved on from our earth based solar system model and have gone from the study of phrenology to other pursuits more conducive to understanding the world around us. The morality of the Catholic church is AGAIN a subjective topic and therefore tells us little of the morality of society. For instance, the Catholic church engaged in the wholesale slaughter of millions of people as well during the Crusades and the Inquisition. Is the Catholic church bad? I would say no, is it capable of espousing bad policies? Certainly the evidence seems to support this. Were the Native Americans immoral? AGain, the evidence does not support this, we know that they were certainly more concerned with what most would call equity with the earth around them. However they were also capable of very bloody acts. The example is a poor one as our friend was possibly aware when he presented it. We do know that society has corrected it's perceived failings in many cases. We also know that the tendecy of groups to persecute individuals is replete throughout human history. Our friend ignores the more obvious trends of greed, violence and divisiveness in human society for the sake of supporting a flawed argument. That is certainly his prerogative. I would also say that our friend instead tends to prove the case for reviewing the past in order to predict the probabilities of future events. If we look at the past, understand its lessons, we can avoid repeating its mistakes or at the very least, gain insight into what the future probably will bring. For instance, using his examples, I would be willing to bet that science will CONTINUE to correct its incorrect notions when they do not stand up to scrutiny. I would also predict that it is quite likely that if students were to read more, their scholastic performance would probably improve, as would their understanding of the world in which they live. I would base these notions on past trends. Based on his examples, I would further predict that when destructive trends in society toward the individual begin to outweigh society's advantage to the individual, individuals will tend to correct those destructive trends or at the very least make efforts to correct them. Our friend further argues that society is not decaying. In a way, he has a point, decay is a subjective term. However, I believe that most people can agree that where there is gain, somewhere there is usually also loss. Remember, when we speak of future possibilities, we are not looking at definites, but probabilities. The probability is that a society in which the wealth continues to move upward will also, as a consequence have a similar rise in poverty and lower standards of living somewhere within its class structure. This is simple economics as our question mark is probably aware. (Again based on the past observation that although abrasive, our friend does not appear unintelligent.) Putting these two trends together, it isn't difficult to predict with reasonable accuracy that when the wealth at the bottom of the class structure is spread too thin, the individuals that make up society will attempt to correct the situation. Further, when greed in society overtakes compassion in society, it isn't too hard to predict that there will likewise probably be a correction. Ignoring several revolutions in many countries around the world because they happened in the past would be foolhardy. Those events were the result of societal trends and they are lessons that history leaves behind as clues to warn us, or to guide us in predicting what the future holds in store for us all. Compassion must be restored by choice as it falls prey to greed, in whatever measure, or certainly historians of the future will speak of the revolution that restored compassion's dominance in society by force. 030110 ... Lime Rider I have a lot of things to say. I should start maybe with who I am: a dutch left-wing and green sympathisant. My intention is not to defy anyone, just to lay down some... arguments/facts. Draw own conclusions. I am tired, and some of my arguments may be stated before, not be right. This seems like a good excuse to state non-sensical things without having any blame on myself, and maybe it is. I hope not though. see: disclaimer. lol. (haven't visited it.) First of all, current studies on natural recources show that by 2050 the population will have a great downfall due to loss of most recources (and therefor food) and pollution. This only if by 2015 a desicion will be made to greatly diminish use of recources, also by birth control. By 2130 a more steady population will come, making about as much new recources as there are used. If this decision will not be made the population will be very greatly diminished by 2075, to the half of its peak, in 2040. I don't know if in the future America will be willing to take real consequences from agreements as in Kyoto or Johannesburg. If America (leaving besides the question if it was Bush's fault or not, although it seems it was; Clinton had earlier agreed to signing for Kyoto) keeps up not making decisions for the enviroment, but for the economic (oil) giants, it will be disastrous for the world. It's very understandable that America keeps hogging many of its and other's recources. If it didn't, there probably wouldn't be enough stuff in the US to retain it's current wealth and population. what is just as understandable, but less moral, is that people in western civilisation no not just America) could spend a lot more on health in the third world, send help in a way. Greed is like that. Then of course, why sustain any people in Africa when there's just enough natural recources (not talking money) for US to get by? (pun intended) (got those words (p i) from another blathe. thanks whoever :) ) I made a promise to myself to spend at least 10% I make for some kinda good purpose. If I ever make millions, I (hope now) WILL spend every million I do not need (yeah can be double interpreted. But i mean.. who needs 15 million?) on a good thing. If this sounds hypocritical/phoney/self-lifting I'm sorry, maybe it is. Hope not. Liked the plan myself though. There is actually a school in Holland for getting lucky (lol no not scoring, having luck). People are more lucky when they think they are (this could be placebo-effect, article didn't say). Seeing a bright future will most likely give one. Self fullfilling prophecy. Just be nice I guess, the world will not end. I wish a loving war would work, will work. I don't know, but it would sooth the mind. Fighting hate with love. Talk to someone you don't know, don't be shy of other cultures (holland politics are now about not letting any more people in, mostly from Marocco and the Dutch Antilles, voting on 22 january.). Go and ask that question to anybody. Be nice and polite, nice as to your friends, polite as to your granparents. I fully realise my preaching right now. Am a bit ashamed of that, but I'm just giving my viewpoints here. Now on Bush... Polls indicate many Americans (I'm not sure, but I thought a majority) agree with the policy Bush is now going with. Also his War ethics are regarded by many (again, maybe most) as the best way to go. Although Bush is somewhat of a figurehead (how much we can't know) he is still acting the will of the people. So maybe this whole discussion shouldn't be addressed at the stupidity of Bush but at the media (see: postcard_of_bush) (it isn't entirly, it was more in the earlier thread of this word.) As for companies.. I think smaller companies would be better in most cases, but sometimes to make something pay off, and worth wile, you have to do it on a big scale. Everybody making his own computer... from sand, soda, scraps of metal and some chemicals with carbons. not so very succesful. That care sometimes shifts from people to profit... I hope orginisations like Amnesty don't do it. But companies like... Microsoft. They do dirty business but I'm sure that a lot of it's employees just want to make very good software. And Windows IS more average user-friendly than Linux, there's just more money in it. While Linux is the more society-friendly based version. I can't buy new cd's for less than 20 dollar. While a very small shop, it needs about 50% of that too have enough money to expand it's collection, and pay it's two employees and rent too. The boss rides a bike. At a chain cd store most cd's are 22 dollar. But popular cd's can be made 15 dollar, because there are so many buys from the record company, they can negotiate. At the chain store they don't know shit about music. Ask someone about Sgt peppers lonely hearts club band and they'll prolly respond... ehm Robbie Williams? I never buy there, and think the entire store should be closed... but it's hellavalot more popular than the small friendly store, where they still CARE about music. I made small notes while reading the blather at america_is_going_to_hell: recources away no spending on others positive polls on war small company 't oor always money Conclusion is stated and simple. Moral: although we, or some of us, would want a more friendly, loving society, popular culture won't allow it. And if I was raised in a different way I would be part of popular culture (there's that hypocrite again) and not... partly opposed to it. And I hope I will never misuse power, and in my current state I wouldn't. I'd like to think I'd never. I think I'd never. so much for learning_from_history. I sincerely think america_is_going_to_hell and taking the rest of the world with it. I'd like to see the world as we know it go though. Not in my young lifetime. [insert back_to_nature_New_Age_crap here]. Till then... 15 februari a march against war on Iraq. http://www.fse-esf.org/ Didn't like that site too much though. Dutchies have an own site but you prolly can't read it. Ah damn... I said no conclusion. repeat disclaimer. I don't like preaching. Or maybe I do. But... reactions please! 030111 ... magdalena well, when I have more time, I shall put my long ass reaction after this. You are dutch?! Me too!!!!! (sorry...lol...)MIJ wonder wanneer ieder verder zit Nederlands? hmm hier of daar Goedendag. 3 3 3 3 ( those were susposed to be hearts but I'm fairly sure that the little v thingys won't show up. ) 030111 ... *nat* My clarinet teacher leant me a book called "Why the World Hates America" It was very insightful and made me hate the country even more than i do already. Actually no, it made me hate Bush and his stupis decisions more than i do already. Now Im reading Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - something with a bit more depth and meaning wouldnt you say??? lol 030112 ... Lime Rider to magdalena: ja... er was laatst iemand op red blather: "een stomme kind". maar die kon wel nederlands maar niet zo goed ofzo. anyway :) I'd like to hate america more. There's nothing else I can really rebel against at this time... so why not the US. I'll try finding that book somewhere. Hate is bad though. but what else is there to do? Love. One Love. Fight for love. Fight with love. At the same time though? would hope. 030112 ... Puffycloud This is something that kinda pisses me off. This is not meant to attack anyones ideas and if i do sorry. There are so many people who are always saying that the US needs to take more interest in foreign countries problems and help out. Most of the time to help out it requires that we send in some soldiers to get things done and then the same people who said we should be helping turn right around and start saying that the US tries to play the Police of the World too much. I know almost everyone is going to disagree with me but very little is solved with talk and negotiations. More commonly it is solved with a gun. At the begining of WW2 the US was trying to talk with Germany, Italy, and Japan to try to make them stop attacking other countries and look what happened. Pearl Habor was attacked and the Germans take over almost all of Europe and parts of Africa and Asia. So kind of what I'm trying to say is that America will always be a warring country. We were founded on war that is all we have known from the birth of the nation. And I seriously doubt any of that will change in our lifetimes and I pray I never see that day because that will probably be when the entire world is run by one government. Now I know most of you think that sounds good but just think there has to be one person who is completely in charge and do you really want to see the day when one person rules the world. Sure there will be a Congress sort of thing going on but there will be 1 person who is slightly over them and even if it is just slightly he still has more power than them. 030113 ... Dafremen All of your opinions hit home. Puffycloud, the American perspective that you state here is as valid as any, except perhaps, that of our anonymous friend. Realize however, that the American perspective that we have been raised in is a minority perspective world-wide. America is seen as a meddling bully that hogs the world's resources and, indirectly at least, is responsible for a great deal of the strife and poverty in other countries. There is a good deal of evidence to support that viewpoint. However, in my opinion, America is simply a pawn, the homebase of the wealthy so to speak and it is for this reason that the U.S.'s policies are so in line with the policies of the Multi National Corporations. My only problem with any of this is the nationalist flavor that all of our opinions seem to have. America A-Schmerica, Dutch Schmutch...I care for you all as human beings and feel very strongly that we should try to approach life not as Americans or Dutchmen or Japanese or Floo-floonians, but as people. Our governments aren't going to protect us, neither are the corporations. We need to take care of one another and stop giving up our right and ability to do so by putting the authority and power in the hands of a very few people who are, when you think about it, complete strangers. We can do it, we can change the world a person at a time, and as idealistic as that may sound, it's not only possible, it's very probable that we can make it happen. Particularly if we don't die before we're dead by saying that unity isn't possible. 030116 ... celestias shadow honestly, i'm scared. i'm not sure i want to grow up in this world. i don't like the way it's going. i'm so young, but i do worry. i want to move away, but there's nowhere to move to. it's like i'm trapped here, trapped by the failings and shortcomings of humanity as a whole. sometimes i think it would be easier just to lie down and go to sleep forever. sometimes i just don't think it's worth it at all. 030903 ... minnesota_chris I dread seeing cops now. I saw a young blonde lady cop, wearing a POLICE t-shirt and big boots. I feel like I'm living in a police state, and I wanted to slap her. And I'm sure she's a nice person, but those in power are throwing their weight around way too much. 040528 ... . society 041227 what's it to you? who go blather from