columbine ReapersBlade2001 Please give a moment of silence for those who died in the Columbine shooting on April 20, 1999. Once so low No where to go Pinned under the flame Burned in their shame They are victims They fight a war within Buried in their shame Their lives left in shame They try to get out But their is no way out They are trapped They are slapped Too close to ever see Too far to ever be Their freedom they'll never know Their happiness they'll never show They are depressed They are oppressed Their lives so hallow No one would want to follow They grow but don't live They grow to not forgive They are shame They are pain They are never free They will never be Life is forbidden They are never forgiven They are pushed too far They can't heal the scar Their anger becomes their crutch Their bodies unable to be touched Their fears build a wall Hiding from all They are never to be seen They are in quarantine They plan their revenge Bitter memories to avenge No more being in exile No more being treated vile They will fight They will right For months they planned Kill those for whom they are damned Justice they plan to seek No more shall they be weak They lived on the edge They are pushed to the edge They gather their power Their tools for their hour Their time for construction For other's destruction They are machines built to destroy They play with Satan's toys They bring their toys to school To create playtime under their rule Don't play by their rules, don't live Damn the ones who don't forgive They know no mercy They were never shown mercy Chaos breaks out Trapped no way out Locked with two who'll kill On the floor the blood spills Their expression coarse They show no remorse Too many perish The loved and cherished Shot with out warning Early Tuesday morning Their scar of hate Decided people's fate Bullets and shrapnel A classroom becomes Hell A school a war zone Casualties cut to the bone Order shatters for chaos Hate breeds loss Two men's hate Became a nation's pain Rage becomes disgrace People laid to waste Hate gone too far Grows into another scar Too many innocent die Too many tears they cry Because two couldn't stand tall Many had to fall Victims create victims Lost the war within The end had begun When they picked up the guns It was far too late To change their fate Satan's toys they use Dignity they lose They sought a second chance Ended up their final stand Isolated from everything but voices Bought the guns and made the choices They are no longer pure But still they think they're the cure 15 dead say the broadcast news Families helpless, nothing can they do When little kids play Violence is displayed In our homes the sounds echo The news interrupts our shows The insane killers lost their 'pride' The murders followed by suicide Lives ruined beyond repair For two didn't care When hate feeds hate Violent death is the fate Two things remain Questions and pain Sorrow fills the tears we cry Why should people die? Tragedy brings distress In this hate filled mess People walk in fear Is death far or near? No one wants to know We only want to grow We must learn to live To accept and to forgive In remembrance, of the tragedy. In memory, of victims killed. May all victims rest in peace. By: ReapersBlade E-mail me at: ReapersBlade2001@aol.com Visit hometown.aol.com/reapersblade2001/merh for mor like this. 010508 ... Dafremen A letter to Columbine, I have been troubled of late by the aftermath of Columbine, Pearl and Paduka. By troubled I mean torn to the point of torture. Not having lost a child in a senseless tragedy I cannot know your pain; only empathize and weep for your loss. What brings a child to the point of homicidal rampage? How did this come to be in our “civilized society”? There are those who with the best of intentions would act on the outrage which they feel over this senseless violence. There are those who, motivated by the fear of losing their own loved ones, would agree with almost ANY explanation that might set their hearts at ease. These nod their heads at regulations aimed at solving this problem, not once truly asking themselves, “Is this WHY it happened”. How can you look a grieving mother in the eye and tell her that a gun did not kill her child? How can you defend 2nd Amendment rights in her moment of anguish without seeming selfish and unconcerned by her pain? How can you argue against gun control; a conspirator in this gun culture that, in her mind, has ripped her life to shreds? How can you be anything in her eyes but a demon that threatens her remaining loved ones? You cannot. Emotion is blind and demands swift action. To say the problem is complex and will take time to identify and solve is not good enough. She wants security again; she wants her life back again and the breakdown of the nuclear family is too detached from the violence, which took her child, took her dreams. So we take the quick and easy route, the safe way, the politically correct path. We blame it on guns. We blame it on the ready availability of guns to children. We choose to ignore the fact that up into the early part of this century, most children had access to guns and did NOT go on violent rampages. We ignore the facts because we want the pain to go away. The pain will NOT go away Columbine. The guns did NOT kill your children, CHILDREN killed your children. Would that I could make it go away. I would round up all of the guns myself and melt them down if I thought that it would help. I know that it WON’T help. The absence of guns did not stop the young boy in Great Britain from smashing his playmate’s skull in with a brick as he pleaded beside the railroad tracks. Guns had nothing to do with the Tylenol poisonings that hurt and scared so many of us. Guns did not make Oklahoma City nor did they create the Unabomber; loneliness did. Loneliness, and disenchantment with one’s lot in life. These are the factors that led to the pain of Columbine, your pain, America. Too many lonely and disillusioned people, many without the guidance required to aid them in coping with the smallness that most of us feel at one time or another in our lives. The powerlessness which finds its twisted, homicidal release in senseless acts of violence against illusionary oppressors, or defenseless victims. Teach your children well, America. Love them with all of your heart. Protect them, not through legislation and regulation, but through experience, guidance and loving discipline. Don’t leave a child behind America, for it is the lonely, outcast child that comes up behind us and rips out our hearts. With no dreams of their own and no hope for the future, they turn on our dreams and snatch them away. My heart belongs to you Columbine, your grief has touched me deeply, but America and its future remain and always shall remain my one true love. With tenderest regards, R.Dafremen - - 010509 ... Butterfly Collector I will probably be totally ostracised from all society for saying this, but as I virtually am as it is, I dont mind. But my point is this: from what I've heard about it, I can understand why the perpatrators of the Columbine Tragedy did it. I can even empathise with it. Many of you will probably stop reading righthere, but I beg you not to. Forget all the Marilyn Manson crap the media trot out because it gives them something to be angry about in a way that makes them money. What I heard was this: that the perpatrators had been persistantly excluded by other members of the school over a long time period. Despite their making attempts to fit in, the others at the school would not accept them, because they were "different". Finally, they lost it, and everyone knows what happened then. Perhaps unpopularity may seem like a stupid reason to go to such extremes, but I think most people who have been through such a situation could understand this. It is hard for someone who hasn't to grasp the sheer and utter feeling of lonliness that can be caused. Yes, I am in fact going through a similar situation now, and I havent gone on a rampage. I can only assume that either they were less stable than I am, or what they faced was worse. Either one to me is a truly frightening idea. All this isn't to say I don't feel sorrow for the victims (and of course, their families), many of whom porbably had nothing to do with it. Don't think that for a minute I don't. It was, as is always pointed out, a tragedy. But it is, I think, just as much of a tragedy that they were allowed to get into such a state as they felt that what they did was the only way out. And now, they have been painted as inhuman monsters, without anyone thinking what ade them that way. 010820 ... Dafremen I've been there and though I agree with your analysis of their motives, I disagree with the attempt at rationalizing their behavior. They were not the only lonely kids in the world. Hell just look at the fact that they had each other and they each had one more friend than a lot of people I've met in my life. They acted on the feeling, they acted on it because they didn't fear the consequences. They didn't fear the consequences because for all intents and purposes they didn't know what consequences were. You analyzed their probable feelings on the subject well, however,there is no rationalization, excuse or anything to be agreed with in the blatant MISTAKE that these two young men made, nor is there any logic, reason or justice to be found in the consequences that they and their victims payed for THAT error and every error made along the way which contributed to that day in Columbine. 010820 ... dB I agree with Daffy totally (as usual). They were given the motive, but no motive justifies the taking of a life. I can identify with their situation as well, I've been there too. I had no guns, just my hands. I didn't kill anyone, but I hurt quite a few people, and my actions at the time I am ashamed of, and I can never apologise. I can understand their pain, and why they did it, but that does not excuse them. When we lose control of our emotions like they did, it is akin to letting go the very thing that makes us human, our ability to control our emotions. I'm not saying that those who died deserved it. I am glad that the universe is unfair, because if it was all the terrible things that happen are justifed and we deserve them. Columbine was a powder keg. Something had to happen eventually. when it did, I'd hoped that everyone would ask themselves how this could happen and look for rational answers. Instead I just saw a bunch of excuses in the papers and that was the end of it. It was a terrible tragedy, one that didn't need to happen. But, the most tragic thing was that nobody learned anything. If I was a betting man, I'd wager that this is not the last incident like this that we'll see. 010820 ... the spork presisely, if i hauled off and killed anyone who ever mistreated me in any way, my body count would potentially be in the thousands but obviously i was a little better socialized by my parents than some. i'm sorry, i come from a generation where our parents could still beat our asses when it was necessary (because sometimes it IS necessary) sometimes no other method quite gets the point across like a few good solid whacks with a good rubber-soled house slipper. that may not be politically correct to some, but have i ever been known to give a rat's ass? 010820 ... Dafremen In our house, for just about every decision there are consequences provided. I've engineered it to be that way. If you do the right thing, I'm watching, you will be rewarded in one way or another.(I don't tell them WHY though, or else they might just focus on doing that ONE thing right. Instead I say it's for "taking care of your business and doing the right thing.") If you're not doing the right thing, there are clearly stated consequences and YES there are consequences for things you HAVEN'T been told not to do as well(Mild if it's a small screw up, harsher for bigger screw ups), hey ignorance of the law is no excuse. Not out in the real world, so not in our house either. When they were too young to reason with, discipline by force was the tool, mostly quiet time and spanking. As they got older, they started to CHOOSE the non-corporal punishment options over the spanking. Then it's standing at the wall with your hands at your sides,voluntary quiet time, loss of privileges etc. These work well, but CONSISTENCY is the key. Always enforce consequences...never slip, EVER. Don't cut deals until long after they've started to pay the consequences. Then only cut deals in return for responsibilities fulfilled during grounding. Never cut slack for promises made, only promises kept(no IOUs accepted for getting out of "jail" free.) Never cut some slack because it's the fair thing to do. What's FAIR is only mildly important at this point. If you allow your children to get to used to the idea that the world is about fairness and justice, they're in for a huge surprise when you finally launch them loose on it. Then again, so is the world. Fair but firm is good when making decisions or responding to requests. Firm is master once the discipline stage is reached, fair barely figures into the equation. Fair was the choice you gave them before they chose incorrectly. Fair was giving the benefit of the doubt and trusting that the right thing would be done. Fair was being there in the first place to listen to the question, consider the answer and then GIVE them the best damned advice you knew how. Lastly, not to be repetitive, but fair...was TRUSTING that they would do the right thing, then watching them walk off to whatever they intend to do...THAT was fair. Now is the time for consequences, now it's time for firm....fair has failed us this time around, better luck next time, fair. Th consequences at our house are incremental and they are NOT tied to any specific wrongdoing. Small consequences for stupid mistakes and little silly dumb sh*t. Consequences for Big screw ups are cumulative for 1 year to age 18(or until out of the house) with the slate wiped clean at the end of a year: 1st Screw up - 1 Weekend grounded 2nd Screw up - 1 Week grounded 3rd Screw up - 2 Weeks grounded 4th Screw up - 1 Month grounded 5th Screw up - 3 Months grounded 6th Screw up - 6 Months grounded 7th Screw up - Noone's ever gotten this far.(Or to 6 either for that matter, although my oldest reached level 5 one week after getting off of level 4 grounding.) 90% of parenting is about teaching consequences. If you do a good job teaching responsibility as a value instead of as a punishment, your kids will do a good job of making a life for themselves. Since I'm going on about techniques, here's one: Kids have friends and kids have relationships. Teenagers in particular, seem to focus their life on these social bonds and shut the family out. This makes it harder to know what's going on, harder to do your job as a parent. Lord knows I've got things I'd rather do than spy on my kids. Hell there's Quake2 to play and a missus to love-up...why would I want to play the role of cop-narc? I don't...it's just my job as a father and as a parent to keep them safe, and out of trouble. If your teenagers start to give you sh*t about discipline and refuse to listen anymore, this should work. If your kids are NEVER in the house (which can be a good thing sometimes, but not always), constantly with friends or significant others (in person or on the phone)and you want them to be home more and communicate as a member of the family more, this should work. If your kids are trashing the house and running out to play, leaving you or your spouse with THEIR mess to clean up, if in general, responsibility is LOST on them, this should help you straighten the whole mess out. There are drawbacks to this "super consequence", but most require only committment on your part to overcome: You have to love your kids more than you love your job. You have to love your family more than your house, your friends and your career. You've got to love your kids enough to fight with your spouse, if necessary, to make sure that you can FOLLOW THROUGH with this consequence. You've got to love your family enough to make a leap of faith in order to save it. When all else fails, when you've tried other means without success, do this: Pick up and leave. That's right, MOVE. Not just across town, across the state or country if possibly. Just once, do it. Before, during and after...let them know why you did it, for them and for the family. Let them know that if they ever decide to get TOO familiar with their girl/boyfriends or if they decide to put their friends before their family, this is the consequence. IF they decide that they don't HAVE to do the right thing, you will drop EVERYTHING again, quit your job, pack up, move away and they won't see their friends OR their girl/boyfriend again. Once you've gotten your point across and they've stopped looking at your spouse for support, ask them if they understand that you mean business. If they say they do, leave it at that, but be ready to do it again until your family is back on track. Tell the boy/girlfriends the same thing when appropriate to do so. ("If YOU screw up, she's gone...if SHE screws up...she's gone. If you REALLY care about her...don't either of you screw up. Follow my simple rules for this relationship, otherwise it will be taken away from you. I'm in charge here...I can do that. We DO understand each other...right?" Works like a charm.) I've quit my job and moved twice, in order to save my family. My kids were worth it, and once I had my oldest's attention and she started (reluctantly) following instructions, her attitude changed dramatically for the better. That helps down the road with my youngest daughters too, because they follow her examples. Firm was following through with the consequences, fair was loving the kids enough to bring em with. Moving was the best move I ever made. 010821 ... Dafremen If...by some chance ALL of these measures should fail YOU...the parent, NOW would be the time to lock n' load. 010821 ... silentbob hey i went to 99420 and 99421 it doesnt look like anyone blathered about columbine when it happened thats so weird to me cuz its all i heard about for like 3 months after that 020416 ... dB Daff, Just seen bowling. Kudos to you man. Take the victory, you were right. Just shows what a little information and a large guy in a cap can do. *Much Peace* (now more than ever) 030111 ... ReapersBlade Terrible thing to happen 030212 ... string bowling_for_columbine 030212 ... quilltip we need tragedy. we thrive off of it. this one is old hat now, now that we have 9/11. but no one ever learns anything. we make the same mistakes over and over. we're drowning, 031029 ... whitney i think that eric and dylan were making a point and they just wanted to show justice. all of the preps and jocks need to realize how far people will go to be heard. i'm not saying that i agree with them killing everyone but i know it sure showed them a lesson. you can't judge someone by the clothes they wear or the friends the have. judge by the person they are and by whats inside. people wanted to blame marilyn manson just becuz he's gothic and his lyrics have violence in them. he is not the one that made them do it and he's not the one who's to blame. o and cassie barnell's mom, sorry for saying this but u were wrong,eric and dylan didn't like marilyn manson and they weren't goth. i think that they asked cassie if they believed in god becuz they wanted her to go to a better place. they asked sum1 who had a brother that died a month b4 the incident and they asked him if he believed in god. he did and they said that he's in a better place now. it wasn't right but still. don't go and blame someone like manson jjust becuz u want to. get your facts strait lady. u pisssed me and my friends off and u and everyone else who blamed him should not assume and get everything right b4 hand. you're the ones that cause stuff like that. whatever, i ahve nothing more to say. i'm pissed now. and nevermind, i'm not sorry for saying that. 040112 ... tyger I agree with the poster who talked about how they were tortured by their classmates. Nothing excuses murder. And it's not a rationalization. But I can understand why they did it. P.S. Daffreman - you sound like a nazi. I would hate to be your kid. My parents tried the whole "tough love" thing and I just got worse. When they eased up a little bit, I started getting good grades and making better decisions for myself. Clamping down leads to broken spirits, irrational rebellion, and young adults who have never learned how to make responsible decisions without their parents telling them what to do - trust me, I know... And before you even ask, I'm 29 now, have never had any major problems in my life since I was a young teen, and am working on a Ph.D. Despite the fact that my parents didn't run a boot camp household, I somehow managed to turn out ok. Shocking but true. 040113 ... beaver The Phd might explain why you are such a sanctimonious, didactic shithead. 040114 ... phallusdei "there is no excuse for murder" i could probably argue that... anyways, in health class i think about holding up the class and raping this fat cheerleader at gunpoint in front of the class... noone has a clue, its great 040425 ... phallusdei the only weapon we need is love... that bugs the shit out of me. i dont think they'd get it. 040425 ... death this is so tragic, but these kids didnt have to do this, coz i know what it feels like to be an outcast, but that was no excuse coz they had each other didnt they? they werent totaly friendless were they? i think dafreman is an asshole, sum 1 who doesnt like to have anybody refuse him 040723 ... silentbob "we make the same mistakes over and over. " Yeah, being in the world trade center ... what a senseless mistake we made. 040724 ... devilbunny What makes a kid pull a gun and threaten the life of another person? What makes them think that hurting or scaring a person will solve their problems? Does nobody teach their children this anymore? I'm so fed up with stuff like this. If more parents would become actively involved in their child's life, maybe these things wouldn't happen. I feel sorry for the child who feels he/she must resort to violence and anger in order to resolve their problems. It also makes my heart bleed, knowing they're in pain. I know because I've been there. Things do get better. I wish there were more we could do to prevent things like this from happening again. 061110 ... Dr.Krupt Those kids say they had no friends, there were like 6 of them! i didn't have 6 friends in highschool. Some people have to stop this "im so depressed, everyone makes fun of me bullshit". Heres an idea; take off the stupid matrix costume, stop wearing make-up (cause you're a fuckin guy!), talk to some people instead of sitting in your room thinking no one likes you. Then get your 5 friends, put on some normal clothes, go to a party, have a beer - (and god knows if anyone should smoke some pot its kids like this), talk to some people, and if you're lucky enuff, get some pussy that night. do this twice and call me in the morning. 070614 what's it to you? who go blather from