nice_guys_do_finish_last margadant11 Of course we do... I have never given women a reason to think me a jerk... I have never hurt women that I have been with just to hurt them... I don't just want sex... Their needs come before mine... where has all this gotten me in relationships? Absolutely no where... I have had then break up with me to date other guys who treat them like garbage. They have cheated on me with other guys... Never has being nice got me anywhere, but a one way ticket to a broken heart. So ladies don't say that you want a nice guy, don't say we don't finish last... It seems to me that the nastier a guy is to you the more you like him... no offense. 030112 ... stork daddy oh shut up you puss. haha just kidding...haha just kidding about that too. 030112 ... margadant11 You wouldn't be calling me a puss if I treated women like crap... you would be like dude and I would be like dude and we would both be like dude... anyways yeah 030112 ... minnesota_chris it seems to me that the truly hot women go around looking for wife beaters, cf. romance between Jane and Eddie Monster. 030112 ... strrrrrring ask_jane 030112 ... jane was that romance? damn...i missed out on something 030112 ... Aimee bad girls finish worse though.... 030112 ... minnesota_chris :) jane. I was jealous, and he is mean. And you were SOOO interested in his writing. 030112 ... minnesota_chris and you just admitted you're hot! 030112 ... sonic you must be going out with the wrong type of girls margadant. cause i know that i love nice guys and that in the long run they don't finish last. i think they get further then the guys who act like jerks. 030112 ... sonic you must be going out with the wrong type of girls margadant. 030112 ... miniver Niceness is hardly well-defined. It may imply many favourable qualities; but, in the context of relationships, the term has its less favourable connotations, as well: those first coming to my mind being meekness, shyness, unanimity, insecurity, unassertiveness, clinginess, whininess-about-nice-guys-finishing-last, etc. I do not intend to imply that all nice guys are meek, shy, insecure, etc.--only that so-called "nice guys" may appear to finish last, but that that is rarely because of such qualities in their possession as had ought to be more clearly defined as "niceness": qualities like, I presume, honesty, loyalty, trustworthiness, attentiveness, etc. Even so narrowed down to the above traits, no one ever said being nice was the foolproof path to getting the girl. "Niceness", though in many cases preferable to other seemingly worse qualities in a "romantic partner", is by no means the one categorically imperative characteristic to be sought in choosing a romantic partner. Probably because there IS NO one categorically imperative characteristic. There are many competing characteristics, like beauty, power, wealth, health, intelligence, ambition, philosophy, religion, etc. And, of course, there is physical chemistry, and mental chemistry, and emotional chemistry, and there are a multitude of yet uncharted intricacies involved in your basic romantic attraction. My point: quit with the glib lamentation, find yourself some character descriptors in the two-or-more-syllable direction, and TRANSCEND NICENESS--because NICENESS IS TO BE TRANSCENDED. It is not the final achievement. It is not the resting point. It is not the summation of a any man, a good man or otherwise. Nice guys who dogmatize their own amity deserve to finish last. 030112 ... elimeny what i have observed over the last few weeks is that its not so much that nice guys finish last... its just that almost all the nice guys ive met that i might have been interested in, they just have no balls. the assholes at least have courage, and go for something. and there is of course a certain level of attractiveness. and it goes the same way for girls too. i mean, as a nice girl i got shat on all the time. fuck that nice girl crap. ive turned into a run-of-the-mill whore. and in some ways im happier. the thing with "nice guys" is that the above blathering person is right. a lot of it has to do with courage, which many "nice" guys are missing. they can be so insecure and inexperiences, and CLINGY. clingy does not equal nice. there is a happy medium between commitmentphobe and clingy. And so many are so afriad to screw up their chances with someone that they dont ever make a move. and for me, that pisses me off. "you dont want to touch me? whats wrong with ME?" if you cant take a chance, then get the hell out of the game. i fucking hate cowards. 030112 ... x wooooooo miniver is here to take place as blather_bitch again? 030112 ... better when im dangerous don't forget though, a lot of the time, that fear of making a move is a learned thing, kind of like remembering not to touch the stove burners when they're lit after you've burned your fingers it becomes something of a vicious cycle, rejections can kill confidence, and lack of confidence just seems to breed more rejections eventually some people get tired of falling down, so they just stop getting back up 030113 ... elimeny but dont we all? if you cant take it anymore, than you should stay out of the field. and if you stay out of the field, you arent allowed to complain about being lonely. 030113 ... paste! try telling a lonely farmer to stay out of the field. that's all he has and he might run you over with his tractor. 030113 ... son and heir of nothing in particular all i have to say is that sounds like the typical easy answer from someone who has probably never really had to cope with that problem. it isn't always a matter of choosing to stay out of the field. sometimes the field lets you know that you either aren't welcome back in it or were never welcome in it at all 030114 ... bruuuuuuuuce "like a dog that's been beat too much 'til you spend half your time just a-covering up" 030114 ... MDogMA i wish i still new the answer to this question. 030114 ... jane chris, you were jealous? you could have thrown out some meaningless rambling and i would have listened the offer is on the table 030114 ... lobsterman just a note to elimeny. if you hate cowards so much...why are you too cowardly to touch these nice shy guys yourself? perhaps you're afraid of being rejected. or perhaps you like being a run of the mill whore and just wanted an excuse. a lot of times in life we think we want one thing...but it isn't really what we want. just a thought or two. 030114 ... stork daddy in battle says me...the oblivious fool is sometimes the hero...is more often shot down three steps across the line. but in love...the bullets aren't real if you don't want them to be. don't let anyone tell you that you can't love them...that's yours...it isn't theres to do anything with. be brave. and remember...stalkers never finish...muahahaha 030114 ... paste! typical easy answer? my reply was hilarious! you have no idea who i am and what i've been through. now that's a typical easy answer. i'm hardly assertive, or is the word ambitious? the field can be very scary when you attach significance to every action you take and every thought you think and reject YOURSELF out of habit even when there's no apparent reason to do so. fear of commitment? yes, no, maybe. fear of rejection? definitely, whatever that means. do you realize how seldom i've gotten out of the house in the last six months? people damage, people lack, yadda fuck you yadda yadda was my mantra. then i met someone who recently let me know (indirectly) that it's okay to jump into the fire (because it's not a fire) and bare my heart with no qualms about anything. well not quite, at least i'm finally working towards that direction. but who are YOU? and how long could i handle your overwhelming depth? until it gets wonderful? until i weird the hell out of you? until i bore you to shreds? it was worth a try, right? sometimes it's hard to tell if things are really good or really bad. 030114 ... lobsterman yes indeed...one must assume to proceed. good soldier...now assume your way into those corners over there and bring us back some recon! 030114 ... lobsterman and whoever this son and heir is...well jeesh...i'm gonna get them. 030114 ... Puffycloud Actually what I have found to work really well even though people say girls don't like it is sarcasm. I'm one of the most sarcastic people ever even when I try not to be I become even more sarcastic. But for some reason (back before I got a g/f) when ever I would be real sarcastic trying to get some girl to stop bothering me or something it would attract her more. And then when I would try to be just regular funny, without the sarcasm and wit, to try and hit on someone it would fail horribly and near the end before I crashed and burned I would just burst with sarcasm and they would really warm up. I dont know whats with that but oh well it got me a gf Ive been with for 14 months tommorow. Today is 1/14/03. Love ya meg. 030114 ... doktors froyd and yoong Oh great paste! you whose adhesive qualities are multitude, you misunderstood who i was talking to i was talking about elimeny and her easy answer, yours was pretty goddamn funny but yeah thanks to the great number of chainsaws, that have passed my way, i don't see many limbs left on my tree for me to go out on also though, your great epoxy-ness, you just touched on a good point, there was someone involved to help you realize these things, to at least nudge you back into the right direction, n'est ce pas? too many people make the mistake of assuming that self-conidence grows in a vacuum just because they have it, they take for granted the fact that there is usually someone out there either backing them up, forcing them to prove something, or at least pointing them in the right direction and assume that everyone else is operating from the same position well i gots some bad news in that department: it ain't necessarily so. 030114 ... elimeny its not an easy answer. I mean, dont get me wrong. Im not trying to say that i never get scared... But let me just explain myself from a personal standpoint. i realize of course, that my perception of all this is a bit bitter and skewed... i know that i cant expect everyone to be willing to risk as much as i do... thats just unrealistic. But look, okay, if you're interested in me, and Ive made it blatantly obvious im interested in you, because im constantly talking to you and asking you to go do things with me, then why run away scared? I mean, i understand the fear of that initial rejection, dont get me wrong. But when its LAID OUT FOR YOU plain as day, and you run away because the idea of getting into a relationship and getting hurt all over again is too frightening for you... then why did you let me think there was a chance in the first place? Thats what i mean when i say get out of the field. If you're scared, then you pace yourself. You don't run out the door screaming. THATS what i mean when i say coward. Do you know how much it crushes someone like me, when every effort is made on the part of getting to know someone, showing them you are interested, plannign things with them, and then they just ignore you and dont talk to you because they are scared? Look, I will put forth a lot of effort, but even i get tired of getting smacked down all the time by someone so stubborn and scared. It's not just that i get hurt, i can deal with that... its just that i get tired. And i can deal with being hurt, but i will only swallow my pride for so long. I mean, really... at what point do you throw your hands up in the air with frustration? I will keep on trying for a long time to break through a shell. But after awhile it just starts to feel like you arent interested, and that im just annoying you. And im not going to make a COMPLETE ass of myself. I have to keep SOME of my dignity. 030115 ... elimeny and another thing (im sorry, im really not on a bitchfest... i just feel like im being wrongly interpreted here) its not that ive never had to "cope with that problem". i am chickenshit all the way through. Ive learned very quickly that when you arent a supermodel, you do have to make the first move a lot of the time. But for instance, im in a situation right now where im scared to death that if i pursue something, someone is going to hurt. please dont make it sound like i dont know anything because ive never had to deal with rejection or something. Ive dealed with more than my fair share of that. But in the end im able to look back on that and say oh well, if i dont keep trying then i may miss something wonderful. its just that i hate hate hate giving up on things, and it kills me to have to give up on someone who's too scared to give it a chance because theres only so far i can go. but anyway, back to my original point (blah blah i cant shut up) i do realize sometimes it must feel harder for men because a lot of the time they are expected to make the first move. i do understand that. But it hurts a lot when you go all the way out there to reach out to someone so that they dont have to be afraid of that initial rejection, and then they push you away, not because they dont actually want to be in a relationship but because they are scared if they get in one they will get hurt. You will get hurt, there is no getting around that, even if its a happy succesful relationship. But i mean, in the end its worth it, at least to me. Ive been in relationships and been stomped all over. But thats not gonna keep me from trying. If you let someone from your past destroy every hope you ever had for the rest of your life, then you dont really learn anything. You just accept what youve been given and dont try for anything more. am i really so wrong to think that we shouldnt do that? i guess i just never heard anybody react to my frustrations the way some people here did... and i really do want to know, is there something im missing? please tell me, im at a loss. 030115 ... birdmad and maybe those people are stubborn and scared because getting smacked down for showing a some interest is the only thing THEY know For example, i have never been the type to just walk up and introduce myself, frankly the only reason i've said all the things i've said here is because i can rest assured that most of you will never se me or meet me, in my life outside blather these days, i am one intensely shy bastard 99% of the time If it hadn't been for the circumstances i found myself in when i was a teenager, i would probably be that strange rare creature called the 30-year old virgin because that's how timid i am when it comes to relationships and introductions in general It's only for the fact that someone decided i would make an interesting project, a social experiment, that i ever experienced anything worth writing about. And it's only because i took so well to the lessons she taught me that i got to have more, introducing me to her friends like a piano teacher taking a star pupil to give recitals to a select audience...and even then it wasn't what i really wanted at all, but it was pleasure and i was a pleasure-junkie, so i ran with it until the day when i bottomed out like any addict eventually does, and when she and i parted ways, i didn't have to look for company very often because i had built up enough of a reputation that company came looking for me, i was the equivalent of a name on a bathroom wall, and i didn't refuse it because it was the one sure thing when my attempts at real relationships got shot down or pulled out from under me like so many rugs so you could say that i made up for feeling like a reject by being really really easy and of course the silent shy brooding brought on by the all that failure actually just added to the whole bullshit mystique i had going on at the time (though it did eventually get old) so i have the weird double edged problem of being really really shy (i only ever went along with the stuff i've done because i never had to make the first move) and of having countered it with such a freaky past that i generally have to keep it secret so as not to be perceived as a total sleaze and so i've found it kind of funny that the only ones i've ever come across who haven't at some point or another managed to break my heart were the ones from back then who never knew i had one in the first place because just about the only women i ever really fall for have been friends of mine who i either met in school, met at work, or met while hanging around with other friends, and nearly every time i let one of them get close, everytime i let my guard down...i got served up a strong dose of reasons to be keep my mouth shut and keep my heart in that nice little decorative jar in the back cupboard those are the ones who left me believing that friend_is_a_four_letter_word i'm in something of a better place now, i'm in love with someone who knows about all of this and doesn't make me feel like a throwaway (in fact it surprises me to no end that she still even cares at all after some of the things we've put each other through, and i'll admit to being guilty of most of the worst of it - enough bad experiences have made me a real paranoid bitch sometimes and sometimes, as a result, i really fuck up and get all dramatic) but there you have it, i'm not so totally nice as i tried to be with my other friends, and here i am finding a measure of acceptance i never thought i could, and while it may not be a full-blown textbook "relationship," per se, it's a better situation than anything i've been part of in a very long while 030115 ... megan i disagree. nice guys finish first in the long run. even though it may seem hopeless to be kind and compassionate and understanding, it is not. do not lose heart men out there. we need you. i'd like to tell you about a person i know. he tends to be little shy when it comes to talking about feelings, until you open up to him. he likes to let people know he is strong and will stand up for what he thinks is right, but he has this sweet side. that sweet side is what he gives me every time we're together. he shows me this amazing self he has inside, he listens to my every word, he understands my problems and helps me through them. he gives me hugs, he holds me while i sleep, he talks to me on the phone to all hours of night (or at least it seems to me... :) he's my best friend. i love him so very much. he's a "nice guy" and not only has he not come in last place in life, he's come in first place in mine, and that will never ever change. i love you babe, never forget that. 030115 ... megan :) 030116 ... elimeny i would have to say i agree with Megan. I think that nice guys appreciate it more when they find the right person. 030120 ... Bastard I was thinking about this the other day...and it occurred to me that a lot of unattractive males seem to make up for that unattractiveness by being nice to the females. However, the way it usually works is that looks attract and personality retains. So, that's why she "just wants you as a friend." Because she never wanted you in any other way in the first place. 030121 ... Alden You know, I always thought I was a nice guy, but it turns out I've just got problems. I'm so afraid of being by myself, no one wants to be with me... Sigh, life is so confusing... 030121 ... niska oh, this is sad.... boys, the girls in here are right! you're finishing last because you can't hear the damned gun going off at the start of the race! we don't want 'bad boys'. we just crave your attention. but nice guys are ALWAYS afraid they'll be hurt. yeah, this sensitive side is sooo amazingly attractive, but it's so frustrating because we figure, if you wanted us, you'd at LEAST try... you don't have to be a supermodel for guys to hit on you - it's exactly the oppposite! if you are good looking, it's even HARDER to find a nice guy. they are so shit scarded to come near you, you'll NEVER be pursued by one. a lot of you are so magnificent, and you refuse to believe it. i have to agree with the girls up there in this blathe - it's not the 'nice' that keeps you from crossing the finish line, it's the FEAR. just stop being afraid and start loving already! girls don't want to have to be stronger than you. who's going to make US feel safe? we need you to be sensitive AND strong. if you're really that nice, you'd do that... 030321 ... minnesota_chris its a good thing that you know so much, niska... we can all find out how wrong or inadequate we are, just by asking you. cf: the_guy_everyone_makes_fun_of_but_you_feel_bad_for 030322 ... splinken there is a big difference between being nice and being kind. and sometimes i like a little cruelty, if it's honest. 030322 ... minnesota_chris what do you mean? Can you give an example? 030322 ... niska oh please, minnesota_chris... i only draw from my own experiences, just like the rest of the people here. the fact that you're picking on me suggests you aren't all that nice anyway, but you're somehow still offended (surprise, surprise...) on 'team hate niska' you're just looking for anything to disagree with, whether i'm against boys being too shy for their own good, or kittens and rainbows making people smile - it doesn't matter. you'll be offended by anything i say, just so you can react. there should be a blathe called creepy_guys_do_finish_last because it'd be easier for you to bitch at me in one place you can bookmark, instead of following me around blather, asking me questions and responding to everything i write. for someone who doesn't like me all that much, you can't seem to get enough of me. once was friendly. twice was a coincidence - everythign else is just stalky. really. 030323 ... minnesota_chris I respond to niceness and to meanness. There's some things I like about your writing, and some which really bother me, and I will continue to say so. I've responded a few times, I've responded to others' writing much much more... if you don't want my comments, how about posting on some other website, or start a livejournal? 030324 ... niska PHAHA! whatever, minnesota. I don't think there's anything mean about tellina guys what girls want. Who the hell are YOU to know what girls want? you're a guy! There seems to be so much damn confusion about each other, and all it is is a lack of communication - you can pretend that's bullshit because you hate me, or you acn admit it's the truth because it is. either way, it's the way it is with boys & girls, whether you like it or not. I'm not trying to agitate you, I just didn't come here to meet people, but I'm finding I'm gettign increasingly annoyed thate veryone want to have a damn conversation here, instead of just blathing. That's what I came for. As for a live journal - well, I'm not THAT fucking internet-savvy... and besides, who the hell would ahve the time? 030325 ... joda It is entirely possibly that you are targeting the wrong type of women to begin with. There are several nice, caring, loving men out there who, whether blindingly attractive or not, have no trouble forming and maintaining loving relationships. I find that men with Nice Guy Syndrome are so intensely focused on what is owed to them, from giving so much leading up to the relationship, they are less giving IN the relationship. By holding this view that you are doomed to fail, you have decided beforehand that whatever you have to offer is what nobody wants. Your focus is either on overcompensating to correct that, or looking for faults in every relationship that support your theory, rather than piting you towards a solution. The addiction to people who deny you is no different from those people's addictions to people who deny them. You have to understand this when you choose to go after someone who is addicted to chasing, not being chased. You are easy, and that's not dramatic enough. It's as simple as that. If a woman prefers chaos to comfort, you should find someone else to pursue. After all, you're nice, and she isn't. How could it work? By comparing yourself as nicer than someone you classify as a jerk, as a basis for why someone should be with you instead, is a dead end. Being Mr. Saviour Sensitive Man, is a horrible tactic. The type of woman you are constantly being denied by is not interested in being saved, she's interested in being noticed. You will be the first person she calls when she needs someone to listen to her go on & on, when all her other friends are sick of hearing it. You will be there for the affection she isn't getting from some other jerk she's interested in, but she will never fall for you, because you are her doormat. You may have a terrible obsession for her, but I assure you, she is only "so confused" because she really had no interest in you, and is only keeping you around because you're the only one (Sucker) who is willing to put up wither her bullshit. And she doesn't want to "lead you on", so she refuses your advances while fishing for them - because she doesn't want to wind up with absolutely Nobody who feels sorry for her, regardless of how inconsiderate she is to them. Women who actually say out loud to you that they are just looking for a nice guy, are repeating the same behaviour over and over that will ensure they never meet one, or realize one when they do. It shouldn't have to be said out loud. It is a given. No one goes looking to be treated like crap. But this type goes looking for love in all the wrong places - just as you are, The problem is not what women want. The problem is that you have decided every woman is like this, and you are not looking beyond your small frame of reference. All you have to do is be friendly to the next nice person you meet. Be yourself. This person may not turn into a lover, but there are several other people out there you still have not met. When the woman with the hang-ups, the abusive boyfriend or the problem that needs solving (which could have been avoided by common sense, and no matter how much concrete advice you have to help her solve it, she only seems to want it to be worse so she can continue receiving this attention - FROM ANYONE) approaches you, don't think of it as an opportunity to get her to like you by being there for her, or being more nice than some other guy. Think of it as a situation to avoid. If you don't, of course you will finish last - you were never in the running. 030504 ... minnesota_chris "men with Nice Guy Syndrome are so intensely focused on what is owed to them..." that is so true! And women do it too! Women who pretend to be perfectly nice in every way and then expect the man to do whatever she wants (often without saying anything) so true! 030504 ... Rotten77 personally, i'm gonna have to agree with this. i always think i want a nice guy cuz i'm sick of all the bullshit, but when one comes my way i'm not interested. i went out with this really nice guy last nite, for example. he drove a long way to take me out and bought me a nice dinner, was a total gentleman. i thought he was hot at first, but then i guess i just got bored or something. i know it's fucked up and i feel bad, but i don't really know what to do about it. it's not like i enjoy disfuncional relationships. it just turns out that way. after all, "the very essence of romance is uncertainty." 030504 ... EmmaAnaCaraandArmina its a lie when 'last' arrives nice guys always win it just 'looks ' like they're losing 030504 ... User24 no, nice guys do finish last, becuase people don't notice their niceness, no matter how much people tell you they will, no-one will notice your selflessness. 030529 ... mirabara the problem with being a nice guy is that "nice" usually meens being selfless and not gasping for attention, which is counter-productive to trying to get a girls attention. 030529 ... jimc some people make the mistake of confusing nice with weak. that leads to more problems than anyone ever dreamed of because even the nicest person has their breaking point. 030529 ... Adorable Nice Guy breaking points...oh I love that phrase...but isnt being nice weakness? It's a chosen weakness though...choosing others over yourself. Altruism if you will. On one hand a soldier who doesn't fear could just be too stupid to see danger. But a BRAVE soldier is one who knows the danger and chooses to face it anyhow. Strong people can be weak for someone the same way scared people can be brave. Jesus wasn't weak...He bore His cross...and He bore other people's too. He was the epitome of strength...and the epitome of a nice guy...and finished at age 33 a virgin hanging on a dead tree with spikes driven through Him and thorns piercing His brow. But He chose to be weaker than Rome, weaker than the Sanhedrin. Chose to let them walk all over Him. Not because He wasn't strong, but because He loved. 030804 ... Adorable Nice Guy breaking points...oh I love that phrase...but isnt being nice weakness? It's a chosen weakness though...choosing others over yourself. Altruism if you will. On one hand a soldier who doesn't fear could just be too stupid to see danger. But a BRAVE soldier is one who knows the danger and chooses to face it anyhow. Strong people can be weak for someone the same way scared people can be brave. Jesus wasn't weak...He bore His cross...and He bore other people's too. He was the epitome of strength...and the epitome of a nice guy...and finished at age 33 a virgin hanging on a dead tree with spikes driven through Him and thorns piercing His brow. But He chose to be weaker than Rome, weaker than the Sanhedrin. Chose to let them walk all over Him. Not because He wasn't strong, but because He loved. 030804 ... niska i have to agree with joda. in some cases, 'nice' is an scapegoat. there are men out there who, instead of taking initiative, or realizing where they failed to, just find it easier to blame everyone else for the cause of their problems. that way they'll never have to face their own inadequacies and instead, focus on what is wrong with everyone else, in an attempt to justify their lack of self esteem. maybe this will go away in time. for you, who started this blathe, i certainly hope so. i once worked with a man, in his forties who lived with his mother, weighed about 400 pounds and had absolutely no contact with women in his personal life, because 'women all want jerks'. yeah - THAT's why... he was very nice, but you don't want to be that guy. 030804 ... elimeny okay so what about the girls? i mean, theres talk of men gasping and trying to get a girls attention... im sorry, but that doesnt happen to me very often... most of the time im gasping and doing everything i can to get the guys attention... maybe thats my problem? maybe i should belike one of those girls who sits in the corner laughing with her friends, ignoring all the men, and sipping on a martini in a short skirt? would that work? hmmm.... what exactly does a girl need to do to get a guys attention, if shes not supermodel gorgeous? i mean, i think im cute and all, but i dont have looks that would warrant my own calendar or anything... advice someone? i should start a new blather on this... hmmmm, i think i will 030824 ... shoccolo what?? that is so desparate - as if you're actually willing to pretend to be something, just to get a guys attention... why don't you figure out what you like to do, who you want to be, and do that. the people who enjoy your company when you are being yourself are the people you want around you. here's the hard facts honey - life is not a movie, and it will never be like 'she's all that'. so if he's not paying attention to you, he knows you're there, and he doesn't care. he's just not into you, and that's his right as there are billions of us on this planet to choose from. accept it and be happy you're not pretending to be something you're not, just so some boy can try to have sex with you... how degrading. 030825 ... Freak. maybe the nice guy thing is just a facade anyway some people just can't understand that if you make the right decisions from the beginning you would be on the right track and wouldn't be in last place. 030825 ... elimeny whoa, calm down there shiccolo... i didnt say "what should i be" i said "what gets your attention". never do i act like not myself. dont get so personal. curiosity intrigues me... the rest of it is jest. im curious as to what catches a guys eye. as there are certain things that catch a girls eye. a little look into the mind of the opposite sex isnt meant to be that degrading. 030829 ... Dafremen I'll tell you elimeny. A good looking girl who isn't supermodel molded has a better than average chance of meeting a guy. Many of the nice guys are intimidated by the super gorgeous and find a less Barbie-esque woman approacheable and appealing. 030829 ... justME Im 13 years old and for what i know so far Nice guys do finish last. Nice guys even though they are nice seem boring 2 me. One of my friends is a nice guy. He is nice and everything but he is scared to take a chance at anything. I love "bad" boys. U know the Druggies the Sk8ers. there so fucking fun, most of them are "clowns" they make me laugh. Its not wen a guy is mean 2 u that u like him its when a guy is mean to everyone but you. he isnt scared to do stuff. normally he starts. i like a guy i have 2 tell to slow down not to go fast. i like the guys who skateboard not that scooter. and if they have a car even better. im talkin bout the ones who street race! Damn that shit is fun as fuck! 031203 ... mt because they want to be sure their partner is satisfied first... 031203 ... magicforest I am the only one of my friends who honestly has no attraction to the bad boys. They repulse me. They don't act real. They cover themselves up in a shield of indifference. I'll take the nice boys, the gentle souls, they have fiery spirits they allow you to see, to touch...they take my breath away... has had her share of bad boys 031203 ... justME One of my friends and my X is the biggest druggie in our skewl. the reason he does the shit is to forget about stuff. he has a firey spirt he is fun sweet. he is amazing. but he isnt a good guy. he is fun. 031203 ... realistic optimist someone who is mean to everyone but you will one day be mean to you as well. this is one lesson i have learned the hard way. 031203 ... justME its called bad carma 031203 ... justME its called bad carma 031203 ... Fuck you What a load of crap page this is! 031203 ... magicforest Fuckyou could either be a nice guy, a bad guy, a nice girl with a bad guy, a bad girl with a good guy, a nice girl with a nice guy, a bad girl with a bad guy, or a metrosexual. 031203 ... Fuck you too [Just my way of saying "This page is full of shit!".] [I've come to realize that the women of this world want nothing more then domination and abuse. "Nice guys are pussies!", what kind of shit pile drivel is that? So all I can summon is loathing for you Elimeny.] [You want balls, go fondle your own.] 031204 ... minnesota_chris yep, this page IS full of shit. But you don't make it better by taking a dump on it yourself. Elimeny is a hottie, with no testicles as far as I know. She's right when she says that men gotta have courage. One thing I think is also lacking is courage by women. They get approached by a nervous guy who doesn't come off as Rico Suave, they tell him to piss off. They should get some courage and take a bite out of him. I'm not sure where that last paragraph was going. But, um, women need courage. 031204 ... danica i always pick nice guys. 031204 ... magicforst Fuckyoutoo, you evidently are not a nice guy. Or girl. Or metrosexual. You are disgruntled, and somehow have reached the conclusion that all women desire, knowingly or subconsciously, abuse and mistreatment. Why don't you tell us why you feel this way? Hell, you can even come to eyedream_history_portrait if it gets your creative sperm dribbling. But don't attack a skite just because you have been hurt. 031204 ... magicforest Fuckyoutoo, you evidently are not a nice guy. Or girl. Or metrosexual. You are disgruntled, and somehow have reached the conclusion that all women desire, knowingly or subconsciously, abuse and mistreatment. Why don't you tell us why you feel this way? Hell, you can even come to eyedream_history_portrait if it gets your creative sperm dribbling. But don't attack a skite just because you have been hurt. 031204 ... minnesota_chris yes, I am a non-nice metrosexual. Of the male variety. Why are you so angry? 031205 ... Death of a Rose i must be a fooking idiot. so, i'm sitting at the piercing place visiting with the young lady i'm taking out next friday, and i guess she wasn't just having a funny when she said she has a boyfriend. turns out this guy (in his mind only) is a fiancee (another sweet nice guy) but she will never marry him because he doesn't 'do it for her'. so i asked her why doesn't she try to teach this 'sweet and nice guy' how to press the buttons, give the 'nice guy' a chance since in comparison to her last two serious relationships, her first love cheated on her, was stoned and drunk most of the time; her second 'love' beat her and constantly cheated on her. but she won't even try to return the kindness to this 'nice and sweet guy' by either telling him she doesn't have the same feelings for him as he does for her, or by doing the above, maybe show him what he needs to do to be a master in the romper room. So what the fuck is up with that? And why am I starting to feel the 'nice gay friend' that no girl wants to rumple the bedsheets with? FUCK! . 031214 ... death of a rose shit...last post should've read 'feel like the...' . 031214 ... realistic optimist i think perhaps you should figure out how to appear dangerous so that when they catch you , to the girl you will appear to be the bad guy they tamed. or you could just date older women. though i prefer younger women, myself... but it seems that older women want stability. i dunno it's been a while since i've had an opportunity to tumble that i would accept, so i'm prolly not the best person to be advising. 031214 ... Death of a Rose thanks RO. i think i've resigned myself from the Corporation (M.W.W.T.W.D. Inc.) peace. 031219 ... phil I don't even think they finish. 031219 ... magicforest i like boys for their souls kind souls 031219 ... The Goddess Cupid Yah, so i'm coming in to this debate a million years later as I just discovered this site a few weeks ago. All I wanted to say is somewhat in agreement with the statement of "owed". The unfortuanate factor of the nice guy is that he tends to make himself dependent on the other person for their emotional well-being. Same goes for girls too. You, the unfortuanate individual who chose to pursue the relationship, is suddenly caught up trying to "heal" this other persons past hurts. You are the one who pays for them. And to top it all off, should you wish to end it, you are added to the list of past hurts. In my experience, the more you put in, the more the archtypical "nice people" take out. So how about this - I don't want a nice guy, I don't want a mean guy. I'd just kinda prefer a well-rounded intelligent individual.Thats my spare change anyway. 040407 ... The Goddess Cupid Yah, so i'm coming in to this debate a million years later as I just discovered this site a few weeks ago. All I wanted to say is somewhat in agreement with the statement of "owed". The unfortuanate factor of the nice guy is that he tends to make himself dependent on the other person for their emotional well-being. Same goes for girls too. You, the unfortuanate individual who chose to pursue the relationship, is suddenly caught up trying to "heal" this other persons past hurts. You are the one who pays for them. And to top it all off, should you wish to end it, you are added to the list of past hurts. In my experience, the more you put in, the more the archtypical "nice people" take out. So how about this - I don't want a nice guy, I don't want a mean guy. I'd just kinda prefer a well-rounded intelligent individual.Thats my spare change anyway. 040407 ... The Goddess Cupid God thats annoying - you click blather and it keeps asking you if you already said that. You check the page and its not posted...so you send it again...and then end up with two of the same. Sorry 'bout that. 040407 ... kookaburra nice black girls finish last, actually. why does everyone think that we're drug filled pimpettes? and why do they get mad when we arent? 040407 ... x who Does think that? 040407 ... Syrope rofl "was that romance? i think i missed something" me too :) i'm gonna hafta go with the nicer guy as being one who finishes first and then runs again. 040408 ... kookaburra to x, you'd be surprised 040408 ... :) * A_point_in_time * The_Golden_rule... 040722 ... ivyducktwilightseto yes, forever and always. In girls, in jobs, in luck, in life. It just always turns out that way. I have a feeling though that I'm just blathering on this because I'm bored. . 040723 ... stork daddy you aren't a drug filled pimpette? i hate you then. 040723 ... Holly if i pop pills all day but they are not illigal am i still considered a "druggie" if it's legal, but then an alcoholic is an alcoholic 040723 ... Holly i meant illegal 040723 ... . WHAT?! "skewl"?! you mean, SCHOOL, right? and, "carma"? KARMA! with a K! god, nevrmind nice - what about the DUMB? 040814 what's it to you? who go blather from