scuzz_and_ferret karl the weed scuzz and ferret are lovers 030606 ... ferret oh yeah? well karl is going to the 5'th circle of hell so blah! 030606 ... karl the weed yeah? well, since im doomed for eternal suffering anyway, i could go all the way and kill both scuzz and ferret (just ferret, really). 030606 ... ferret there's still time to get saved.... if you want. 030606 ... karl the weed not if i kill you 030606 ... ferret ummm yeah, ok, but i don't think you actually would, besides, what does that have to do with you being saved? stupid child! 030606 ... ferret i never said that I was going to save you... 030606 ... karl the weed im just saying het if i did kill you i wouldnt be able to be saved 030606 ... ferret yeah, you never know, God (notice the RESPECTFUL capital letter!) works in mysterious ways! (CLICHE ALERT! AHHHH!!!!!!!) 030606 ... karl the weed oh, now you got me started. i dont capitalize god beacuse i dont beleive in your religion. its not disrepect. but what the hell is all this bullshit about god working in mysterious ways?!?!? (not just you, in general, too. whenever someone says something like that, it pisses me off). god dosent work in mysterious ways. if he exists in the way that you believe, then hes just some guy sitting in front of a computer or something, fucking around, changing this, killing thet, influencing that. im not saying hes evil, hes just you or me when were bored. also, its not the concept of god that bothers me, its the way in which it is practiced. im sick of christians. bhuddism is the only religion that can coexist with other religions. bhuddists dont pick religious fights. screw religion! the church still has control of our lives. 030606 ... ferret ok, the part about God working in mysterious ways was about you still having a chance of being saved. your view of od seems to be slightly skewed. God is not just some kid sitting in front of a computer killing this and that. God (in my understanding (which is rather limited)) is in everything. God is everywhere everytime. When i said cliche attack i was only refferring to my post, i didn't mean that you had permission to cliche God! lol. The way in which some christians choose to practice their religeon or try to get other people to believe is not related to the religion itself. it is only the person's perception of how to get people to believe, or at least get interested. a while ago, i thought much the same way you did, about how annoying "christians" were. the annoying christians you were talking about are the ones who stand out in the middle of the street yelling to go to church and such. now, i'm not saying that that's a bad approach but it tends to be a little irritating to stuck-up buisness people who are more interested in themselves and their money. yeah well, blah. 030606 ... karl the weed first of all, i am NOT interested in only myself and my money. second of all, sorry about the entire religion sucks thing, i just think that everyone should believe what they want, and just beleive it. dont tell everyone that to go into heaven, they have to beleive in their god, because they belive in something else, and theres no use in telling them they need to go to a place that they do not believe in in thet way. look at what happened with the christian religion, they had all these crusades and missions and bullshit, killed all these people, and where does it stem from? ignorance. their religion is the right one, and the only right one. so how about you and me both have our own little customized religions, and just let everyone believ in what they want. unless of course, they WONT SHUT UP ABOBUT THEIR RELIGION!! (hypocrite alert!!) oh, and also, about all that stuff with the church still having control of our lives, its sort of true because religion is a huge part of our lives, not like in the dark ages or something. lets move away from this. this is why i dont like to get into religious conversations. 030607 ... ferret i'm terribly sorry that you thought i was refferring to you when i said stuck up buisiness people blah blah blah. i was not. yeah, the crusades were really retarded. it's because of the stupid pope. it's all his fault! ok, yeah, just think of it this way: if you had something that you believed was right, and you saw that one of your friends was thinking about things differently than you believed that they should be, woulnd't you want to at least share that with them? i'm not saying to press it on them until they snap and go on a killing frenzy because you locked them in a cellar and read the entire bible to them, i'm only saying..... well, there's a message in there somewere, you find it, i'm tired! 030607 ... karl the weed yeah, i completely agree with you. thats what ive been tying to say. but if you believe in it and they just dont, respect their beleifs. also, religion is responsible for like 75 percent of the problems in the history of sentient life on earth. and chritianity was the worst one. 030607 ... ferret did you know that 45% of statstics are made up on the spot? and it's not the religion itself, it's the powerhungry bitches that try to rule the world with it. 030607 ... karl the weed yeah, i made that up, but its not a statistic. and also, the people should have made their own religion thet discourages powerhungry idiots. lots of others do that. 030607 ... ferret well, if people made up their own religions that would be stupid, it's like: "ok, there's absolutely nothing to back this up but, i choose to believe that when i die, i'll be able to do whatever i want! woohoo! that's my religion!" and it's close enough to a statistic you stupid stringywomanpoo! 030607 ... karl the weed yeah, exactly, but you have to respect their beliefs (or you can just call them retards), but it their choice to believe that, and its just what they beleive. besides, if they just made it up, they woudnt just belive in it like that. it would be a variation off of the old religion. 030607 ... ferret it's also people's choices to do drugs. but if you have a friend who does drugs woulnd't you want to take them to rehab? oh well, blah. do whatever. and btw, 45% of religions are made up! lol jk 030607 ... karl the weed yeah, but drugs are different. they are something you do and they kill you. and besides, you can encourage them to try your belief system, but not force them. besides, they could be right. maybe their religion is right (yours could still be rithg too) 030607 ... ferret it's like this though, (my drug analogy worked great) if a person has no religion (that's the drug) and they just go around doing whatever they want, (that's the temorary good feeling from the drug) and they do that for long periods of time, when they die, they will MOST LIKELY go to hell. (that's the cancer, diseases, blah blah blah that you get from long-term use of a drug) and you do have a good point about other religions having the possibility of being right. but what exactly is YOUR belief system!? 030607 ... karl the weed first of all, youre now saying that religion is bad for you. second of all, if they want to go around and skip religions, and you offered yours, and they still wont stay on one, hen either theyll go to hell via your god, or to heaven via thiers, so the point is, just butt out and accept others religions. now my belief system, is based off of what i beilieve. it dosent have a name, and it dosent really follow any...i dunno, scedule. no church (theres no church for my belief system, its mine). really its based off of the belief that if you are a good person at heart, you will be rewarded. not eternally in heaven (i dont really believe in the concept of heaven) but in life. 030607 ... ferret actually, i was saying that NO religion is a bad thing. and if they keep on switching religions, do they really have a God? it's like, ok, i'll be a christian today, a muslim tomorrow, a satanist the next day.... on and on. lol, your basis of religion is what most are based off of, who knows, you might make it into heaven, although i don't really think that you are a very good person at heart. lol jk 030607 ... karl the weed it would be pretty hard to switch religions like that, because they would have to truly believe in something differnt every day. or theyre lying, and they believe in one thing, and thets all they beleive in all along. also, no reliogion is not necessarily a bad thing. thet is the thing about most religions that pisses me off. i was athiest up until a few months ago, and that just PISSED ME OFF!!! LET ME NOT BELIVE IN GOD!!!! RESPECT IT YOU IDIOTS!!!!! finally, yes, my religion is a variation off of catholic or christian, based off of the same basic things. just thing are changed. like less prayer. i think thet its not how much you pray or repent, but you as a person and if you have a good heart thet gets you rewarded. 030607 ... ferret ok yeah, in that first paragraph you kinda contradicted the point you were attempting to make in the last post. " i think thet its not how much you pray or repent, but you as a person and if you have a good heart thet gets you rewarded. " that's basically true, but think of it this way: (i'm gonna take a quote from another page here, i believe that this was originally said the The_Truth) If you and your father hadn't spoken to each other, ever, and you went up to him and just said, "Hey dad, gimme some rest will ya! I'm tired!" and then you just went and layed down and waited, what would happen? Well, your dad would be a little hurt, obviously, and not too likely to want to help you out at all, and he certainly wouldn't be obligated to do a single thing for you. ok, the he said something like: God works in the same way, if you just go up to God and say, hey! lemme in to heaven! He would be likely to say: well, hey, i don't know you, you haven't ever talked to me, who are you? so ummm, yeah. 030607 ... karl the weed fine. thats your belief. i dont know if he works like that, im not all knowning. and besides, according to most beliefs, god knows everyone. wait, "God is everywhere everytime." you said that. you know what, im just going to leave the point out of this one. 030607 ... ferret you're right, i phrazed that wrong, God does know everybody. blah! i'm terribly apoplectic! i mean.... apologetic! 030607 ... karl the weed god, i dont want to say this, because this means sore wrists for a week, but im goind to sort of play devils advocate and sya, how do you knoe that god knows everyone? your religion could be wrong, and besides, how can you KNOW? (remember, devils advocate) 030607 ... scuzz First point: People have tried to get their own deal out of a religion since the Beginning. Catholics took some stuff from Christians, and voila! Catholosism. Some people read the Bible and the crap in their life won't let them accept some of it. For instance, if there's a death in the family, why would you still believe that God is working in your best interest? He killed your dad, right? Then again, if He didn't, you'd expect your life to be perfect BECAUSE you have faith in Him, but shit happens, and part of our Walk with Christ is going thru that shit and learning, which is in our best interest. We learn to trust God and love the people and time we've been given. (I'll probably have to fill in on this later.) Next point: Prayer works. God does know everyone, but that's not going to get you into Heaven. He knows your heart, because Christ died with your sins on that cross, whether you ever decide to accept that or not. He knows your heart and everything you do, but if you don't start a RELATIONSHIP with Him, which is to say accept Him into your heart and tell Him you depend on Him, then He DOESN'T know you. That's not really to say He doesn't know you exist, like you're some surprise to Him, but you never allowed Him (He wouldn't force Himself into your life) to take lead and talk to you. God knows me not because He created me, but because I've asked Him to come into my heart and take over. That's an awesome feeling. (Another filling in later...) Next point: The drug! Good analogy there, ferret. The drug is addictive. Sin is addictive. Drug/sin can take you through life feeling pretty good and high, but you're missing something. God is rehab from the drug/sin. If your mom was on crack, you might love her enough (despite the crappy life she's given you) to FORCE her into rehab, why? FOR HER OWN GOOD. I witness to people so that they have the chance to go to "rehab" and make a change in their life. I believe that force is the wrong approach religiously, unless you really know the person and know that their time is running short. I have a friend that's killing herself with drugs and lust for 2 guys that are leaving her soon. I know that she'll kill herself once they've left, and so I have to take a certain FORCE into her life. I know that a lot of Prodestants and Jehova's witnesses are the kind of religious 'fanatics' that scream and shout in the streets. That's unnecessary force, and won't attract anyone to God. I've never, ever seen that work. I knew a kid that went door to door on weekends literally selling his religion. (Jehova's witness) He'd memorized a pitch line that he used. That's not the right approach. Ever. You have to be loving and caring, and understand that all you can do is offer support to that person, and try to relate their life to the Bible. If you've read the Bible, there's never going to be a problem, because it outlines EVERY sin and relateable detail of pain that anyone's ever faced. EVERYONE can relate some part of their life to the Bible, whether it be lust, drugs, sex, or some other addiction. In the end, (by Christian belief) only one religion wins. Only through the blood of Jesus Christ can you ever get into Heaven. It's hard to argue this point either way, because there's no way to prove it either way except from what the Bible says. 030607 ... karl the weed oh, god, now you did it. this will go on forever. and ever and ever. Ok, first of all, scuzz, you have one of the more positive outlooks on your religion. i dont necessarily agree with you on all of that, but you make good points. first of all, ferret used that drug analogy wrong, but you used it right. he was saying religion was the drug, and i know thats not what he meant, nut he should have thought it over. ok now second of all: YOU CANT FORCE ACCEPTANCE. never. for anything. it is impossible to force acceptance. you can force them to follow the practices of a religion (missionaries in California) or you can trick them into believing, but thet really not fair. third of all: i dont have a problem with the bible. soe of the stuff in there is really interesting. fourth of all: you are ignoring the respect others religions thing. the lack of respect is how wars got started over it (plus ignorace). your approach is very closed minded. you say that the only right religion is christianity, and all others suck. you say read the bible and you will be ok. you need to accept other religins, because its this kind of thinking that pisses me off, dammit. also, i like the point thet there is no real proof, but thats why there are so many religions. 030607 ... ferret "first of all, ferret used that drug analogy wrong, but you used it right. he was saying religion was the drug, and i know thats not what he meant, nut he should have thought it over." that's actually the opposite of what i said..... thank you very much. "ok now second of all: YOU CANT FORCE ACCEPTANCE. never. for anything. it is impossible to force acceptance" and that is exactly what scuzz said, he was merely suggesting that for your crackhead mother (analogy) you take her to rehab whether she likes it or not. "your approach is very closed minded" actually it's not, it's only what he BELIEVES. you believe 1+1=2 right? well, what if, sometime in the future, someone found an anomale that proved that wrong? then you would be labled closed-minded because all along you tried to force the "fact" that 1+1=2. now THAT'S not respecting other people's ideas, btw, you're judgemental. lol. " you say that the only right religion is christianity, and all others suck. you say read the bible and you will be ok" now that is NOT at ALL what he said. think about....... the one pope dude who sent the christians out for a little crusade to benefit himself and his own country. where do you think he ended up? do you think he read the bible? ok, and also: he didn't say that all other religions suck. ok, that's all i wanted to say. but i assume that in another 10 mins. i will have more to say because it is inevitable that karl will respodn and that i will respond and he will respond and now every once in a while we'll wait for a half-hour response from scuzz. lol 030607 ... karl the weed ok firstly, there are several different ways to cure addiction in drugs. whos to say one works better than another? and if they do , they can just use it. also one method might work better for a person than another. secondly, the whole 1+1 thing was really retarded. you basically just said "well this would happen and this is what you would do and you would be wrong so ha!" the math thing is similar to what were talking about, but very different. religion isnt a rule. not a fact. it might be true, but its not really a fact. thirdly, i didnt actually trhink taht scuzz meant al othere religions suck. not literally. he said that christianity was the only religion to get you into heaven. finally, go damn you. this is your fault. i now am i this swtupid argument, which i am of course the minority in, because of that stupid test you told me to take. and the only reason im going to the fifth level of hell is that it had questions like "do you read scriptures" in the quiz. i dont, but it dosent mean im evil 030607 ... ferret it's not about getting off drugs, it was an analogy, and an analogy pretty much only pertains to the way in which it was first used, like, i used it to basically say that sion was the drug, but then you changed it to say that there were more than one way to get off the drug. and also the math thing was a hypothetical situation. and it worked. "swtupid" oh yes, nice choice of words lol. and the only reason im going to the fifth level of hell is that it had questions like "do you read scriptures" in the quiz. i dont, but it dosent mean im evil " no, you're correct, that doesn't mean you're evil, the fact that you "hate" people and think that some people "deserve" to die makes you evil. lol. i'm done for now. 030607 ... karl the weed see, im already in hell, this is eternal suffering since it will go on forever. also, think of saddm hussein. i hate him and he deserves to die. yes, he could be imprisioned, but hes killed a lot of people cruelly. also, it put "hate" in quotes. i wonder if i had answered those questions differently, would it make a huge difference? 030607 ... ferret "but hes killed a lot of people cruelly." as opposed to killing them nicely? lol 030607 ... scuzz Ready for another half hour response, ferret? First point: When I said that Christianity is the only way into Heaven, I meant it. This is what my belief is, so respect it, you hypocrite. : P JK but that's pretty true. Next point: My deal here is not to force anyone to accept this. Like I've said, leave that for Jehova's witnesses. That is btw a branch off of Christianity. See how they take what they want to believe? They don't even consider God's other names, like 'I Am' from Genesis. I'm not going to tell you to go from following your own rule by respecting Christianity to accepting it, I'm just going to offer it. That's your choice. Next point: My lack of respect for other religions come from my belief that Christianity is right. From my perspective, it's sad to see someone dedicate their life to Bhuddism and die, knowing that they're in hell. Wars were not only started because of the religion itself, but what specifically went on in the church at the time. Catholics had used confession to take advantage of the ppl and steal their money. (Catholosism is another branch from Christianity) In that situation, both sides did some unfair things, and notice the lack of respect. They were willing to die for what they believed. I am too. This is not some fun-trendy-phase for me (or ferret, from what I can see) and I would sacrifice myself to see my friends be saved. That doesn't mean I think I can lob my head off (suicide) and thru some deal with God have my friends automatically saved. That means I would stand against someone trying to get my friends into drugs, prostitution (happens a lot), or some other religion. If that meant that I would be killed in a drive by from angry monks or something, my life will have been an example to my friends, and maybe that would make a difference. Remember Columbine? That girl was asked if she still believed in God. With a gun against her head, she answered yes. Her life was sacrificed, and maybe it's made a difference for people. Maybe not, but that's the chance I'm willing to take for what I believe in. and there you go. (now back to rs!) 030608 ... ferret angry monk drive-bys, oh yeah, mucho funito! 030608 ... karl the weed you know what? im just going to end this conversation. now. forever. 030612 ... ferret i'm crying right now. i don't know what to do or think. this is one blathe that i actually like mostly everything i said on it. but anyway, back to me being all sad i'm having trouble believing..... no, that's not how i would phrase it........ i am having trouble with something that i've lived with all my life. i really need to find out what to do about it but i'm afraid to talk to somebody about it. i believe that it can be fixed but i don't know how to go about fixing it. i don't even know why i'm saying all this. maybe just for my own good? maybe just to get it out? maybe because i want somebody to come up to me and say "alex, what the fuck is wrong with you?" and say it with such conviction and caring that i actually want to tell them. oh God, i wish i knew someone like that. but i guess the more i get to know someone the harder it would be to tell them 030713 ... karl the weed hugs_anyone 030713 ... niska "knowing that they're in hell." (in reference to Buddhists when they die) I was raised in the church. i have a lot of good things to say about Jesus as a man, a husband, a father, a philosopher, a leader, a Jew... you know what ferret? from this point on, you will probably not agree with anything i will write. you don't have to - i'm not going to try to convince you of anything. i dont't presume i know where any of us will end up when we die. as for Buddhists, they will go to Nirvana. You call it Heaven. it's the same place. it's the same religion, minus Jesus, who is relatively new to the scene, as far as religions in this world go. i know it's hard to understand how that can be correct to Buddhists, but that feeling you have, that tells you you're right about your destination, is the same that gives them faith in where they are going. the point is, no one is right, or wrong. that is why we have to be good to each other, in this life. we don't know what will happen. there are too many theories to sort through and too many people claiming to be right, for all the wrong reasons. and many people have the basic ideas, but don't truly live as good people in any religion. it's pointless to argue religion - because no religion is based on facts, but faith and beliefs, which are critical to one's being. i am not seeking argument, i'm just showing you something you may not know. consider this a discussion, as that is the only way people can effectively communicate these very different ways of looking at the same idea. it isn't even a matter of opinion. or disagreement. simply, it is elitist to pity someone for their beliefs. in this world, none of us are truly enlightened, and cannot predict the outcome of our lives; least of all consider others naive for placing their faith in an alternate entity. the 16 Bohisattva Precepts are as follows. Three Refuges I take refuge in Buddha. (God) I take refuge in Dharma. (The Truth) I take refuge in Sangha. (All Beings) Pure Precepts I vow to refrain from all evil. I vow to do all that is good. I vow to live and be lived for the benefit of all beings. Clear Mind Precepts I vow not to kill. I vow not to take what is not given.I vow not to misuse sexuality. I vow to refrain from false speech. I vow not to sell the wine of delusion. I vow not to slander. I vow not to praise self at the expense of others. I vow not to be avaricious. I vow not to harbor ill will. I vow not to abuse the three treasures. (Buddha, the Truth, and All beings) i'm not a Buddhist, or a Christain. I don't even congregate with others to celebrate God; He is everywhere i am already. all the time. i don't find comfort in Organization with revellers. But I do understand many religions, and the foundation of every single one is: BE GOOD. and for the record, Buddhists are the only people of a religious faction who have never been involved in a war, due to religious disagreement. they are the purest beings, willing to love and accept everyone, and everything, unconditionally, though the lifestyle of a Buddhist is not something easily done in our time, and quite frankly is more self-discipline than most are willing to extend for the chance of a happy afterlife. if Christianity is teaching you that those who do not believe in the bible's tinterpretation of the idea of God are doomed to suffer, then you are not learning the message Christ intended you to learn. He died for nothing, then. regardless of what people name Him, what they offer Him (hey, not everyone has 50 cents - God still loves them), what He's taught them, or how they reach Him, God will always listen, He will always praise goodness, and He will welcome all souls who live by His words. which are above. remember: self righteousness is a sin. have faith in all people, and realize the truth is, God will sort it out in the end, if that is our fate. we need not worry what others are doing, or where they will go. we need only make sure we live our lives the way we, or God intends. we can help others most by tolerating and accepting them. if your goals match his, then you're already on the right path. as for the evident sadness in your last post - i'll leave you with some advice that applies to every situation you'll ever come across in your life: forget inhibitions, insecurities or assumptions. see what is really there. take things for exactly as they appear, and follow your instincts. you will make the right choice. In hamlet, Polonius said: "This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man" irony aside, read Matthew 26:36. you may be afraid of your course of action, but you will know it is right, whether you choose to follow through or not. :) 030713 ... ferret that was nice niska, i love a nice mature discussion. yes, most religeons have most of the same base ideas. although, unless i'm mistaken Buddha was a man? so uhh, yeah, i'll wait until someone responds.... 030714 ... karl the weed jesus, all your blathes are two pages long. anyway, i like buddhism, its one of the only religions that dosent pick a fight with another religion. 030714 ... niska yes, he was a prince. his name was Siddhartha Gautama. When it came about that this very rich son had nothing, he found true enlightenment. he had followed several religions, and mastered them all, then moved on. eventually, he decided asceticism wasn't the answer for himself. he recognized the unity of all things, the nature of suffering and how to end suffereing. the effects of his enlightenment were a deep compassion for all living things and a wish for all to recognize their own Buddha nature (to show and teach this compassion for all living things). he spent his life helping others achieve this enlightenment. when he died, he told his followers to consider this spiritual truth their teacher. an easy metaphor is, Buddhism teaches us that all beings are unique, though they are one; as all waves in the ocean are unique, but are a part of the same body of water. he was not an incarnation of God, but he devoted his life to ending much suffering, in the same way Jesus did; by teching others what he believed. though Buddha would not seem a threat to power at the time, because his teachings were only meant to create a compassionate world, it is thought by many he was poisoned. Jesus was a man, as well, and although many believe he is an incarnation of God, i just happen to not. as a historical figure, Jesus was a prodigy from a very early age. he was very charismatic and quite intelligent and insightful for his time. (in this time, people were primitive, naive about the world, and had no concept of anything beyond what they were told by their leaders) the details of his life are lessons we can all learn from and live by. the truths he found, are still held by many people today. whether Christian or not, the truths Jesus passed along to his followers, and his self-sacrifice for the freedom and the betterment of his people are what made him an extraordinary human being, much like Buddha. though, the news of the child prodigy, Jesus, was not known at the time of his birth. he three "wise" men, were enlightened astronomers from the Orient (the definition of Orient is East. this is why peole from the Eastern part of the world are referred to as Oriental, though many aren't aware of this), and what struck them penominal about the young Jesus, was his intelligence and aptitude from the early age of around three - when they actually encountered him. They were following a bright spot in the sky for about a year and a half. when they found it, it happened to occurr over the town Jesus was being raised in. once they were there, being astronomers, and far more intelligent than the people of the area, they were advised to investigate the child. their interest in this brilliant little boy was rational, though there was no explaination for his brilliance at that time. thus, it was considered a divine inspiration. there had been no child like this in the history of mankid - that was generally known of at the time. he was fascinating and his existence was widely known shortly after that. He was a celebrity his entire life, which made it relatively effortless to inspire others. when the actual historical events of Jesus' birth, and his discovery, and the events of his life are compared with the text from the bible, (there's a lot - too much to write in blather. this sounds corny, but check him out at your local library.) it is truly an amazing story of a young man who ultimately changed the world. He was of Jewish faith and not once did he ever actually claim to be anyone's messiah, though the bible says he does. it is not that the bible is untrue, but it relates the tales to us in a way we can accept them. the manner of his death caused an awakening of society. the holy cross represents the structure he was nailed to - never did he carry a cross, as he is depicted in Catholocism; the slats of wood were not symbolic at that time - it was merely a convenient way of nailing people up along the shore as punishment for crimes - as an example to others not to cross the law. the truest representation of Jesus is him, nailed to the cross, as a reminder of how unjustifiable cruelty is, in any form, considering he was the kindest man alive. he was feared because his philosophy - that no man (being) should suffer - was true, which meant it was inarguable. there was no way to discredit him, and the people were in love with him. this was a serious threat to power in that time, which was believed to be the right of birth to the King, and when the people rose up to support Jesus, and revered him as the son of God, he had to be taken out, or revolution would ensue, and the fear was that civilization would crumble without it's deserving King. (this is not an irrational fear, as revolutionaries have been assasinated and publicly murdered throughout history for leading the people in liberation from assumed and imposed power, especially when the people have been neglected or mistreated for the sake of that power increasing his/her influence, or furthuring a personal notion of progress.) Jesus was a rebel, WITH a cause. he did not choose death, but accepted it, thus being an example for all of humanity. i find it fascinating that so many people who revere this man will never bother to learn more about him, and discover what his contribution to this world. many historical accounts are quite controversial amongst the Christian population, because they feel these facts deconstruct the validity of their faith; however, if one truly believes in the teachings of Christ, then any information regarding his life should solidify those beliefs, as there are many aspects of his life that may not be congruent with the timeline offered in the bible, but offer absolution that these events in some way, at some time or another did actually take place. the bible, you must keep in mind, took quite some time to write, had many contributing 'journalists', and several 'editors' on it's 'staff'. over time, history changes to reflect the current social condition, and each account described therein, offered solice to the people living in those times. several metaphors described in the scriptures are also similar to the lessons learned in Greek mythology. these 'morals' have been taught to all humanity throughout time, and have been adapted to reach those who are educated, AND those who are not. many of the stories should be looked at in the context the were written - in the time they were written, and who was meant to learn from them in that time, to be understood fully. Shakespeare often made several references to these metaphors, as an entertainer. many of his references to Greek mythology can also be considered references to the stories of the bible. this was a way of teching morals to the mases in a time where many people were still uneducated, and lazy about religion - but they loved blood, and got a good dose of it with their life's lessons. really, when you break it down, thereis an interconnectedness of all things. we are essentially all the same, but since we are all unnique and complex as well, we all find a different way to interpret these universal truths. but the truths remain the same, in every religion or philosophy, in every time. therefore, the surest way to get to Heaven, or any other favorable afterlife destination, is to learn, understand and live by these truths. if God really did create all of this, he created you, me, Jesus and Buddha. if God has a path for us to follow, we must believe being good is the right path. it is impossible in this day and age to fully interpret and live out the bible's teachings in a literal sense, thus we must find our own way of relating them to everyday life. this was the only way for the people of that time to share historical events with the generations to come. when looking at the religious leaders of today, many exploit Christ and his teachings, ironically using the 'truth' to hide just that from the people, as the fear of losing power when one holds it, is great. after all we are only human. and humans, no matter what will have it in their nature to succeed beyond other humans. this is the temptation God begs us to avoid, as power inevitably does corrupt us spiritually. in our time, the majority of the people on this earth have lost sight of spirituality and have been chasing progress for material gain, because our curiosity has exposed new ways of obtaining power. it comes so easy, and is intoxicating. we really can create our own destiny, though it may not be favorable, due to our lack of good-will. these are the people who are going to Hell, if there is such a destination. (i remain objective - obsession over destination is no way to live, either.) Buddhism is a self-discovery of good-nature, and there are no religious 'leaders'. the main point of Buddhism is that there are no goals. they believe being desireless of material things like wealth and power is the only way to truly appreciate the earth, each other and find true enlightenment. Jesus meant this as well. and there is no way i can argue either is wrong. i believe several religions are correct int heir form - they all derive from the same basic principals. i choose not to follow one, because the concept of an entity beyond tangibiity is something i just cannot understand. it makes no sense to me, though i put my faith in other things. i truly believe we can all learn to be good towards each other. i believe that when we all stop fighting, and start living for the well being of ALL beings, we will truly be free. to me, this is Heaven. 030714 ... niska karl: Buddhism IS the only religion that does not cause religious conflict. Buddhism accepts all beliefs, as there is no religion that contradicts being good to everyone. thanks for reiterating that though. i guess you didn't know i mentioned that, because my blathe is too long to read. that's ok. i wasn't writing to you. walk on by... ;) 030714 ... whistler lots of religions don't cause conflicts not just budism (don't get me wrong budism is great) lots of native religions like the hopi don't push their beliefs on you. evangelical religions cause all the problems, one that say everyone has to believe like us. 030722 ... ashmanzhou atheism and anti-belief are two ideas that always cause me trouble when i argue with someone maybe not even religious they tend to respond badly to a clinical discussion and i notice they include a generous spattering of metaphysics and emotion in their arguement 030723 ... niska well, i'm sort of mistaken up there. Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion... i'm curious what religions haven't started conflict. please, name them. i'm interested in learning what's right, if i'm wrong. 030723 ... ashmanzhou ashmanzhou-ism is a (fire)brand of atheism that hath started no conflict excepting inside my own self the reason is that it has 2.5 active followers 030723 what's it to you? who go blather from