ferret Kleh Ver ~ One who seeks is brave, indeed. When He speaks will you, then, heed? ~ 030412 ... niska yes, when he finally speaks... 030412 ... ferret i speak now! and i have another question for you oh creator of fancy little rhymes. get on msn now! speaking of questions and quests, could you say i have a quest and then as a question? like, instead of me saying " i have a question" could i then say " i have a quest" ? for what more is a question than a quest for knowledge? oh well, might as well stick to question. 030414 ... User24 ! 030416 ... ferret I've been doing a lot of thinking lately. Life is like a big long test before the afterlife. Heaven or Hell. no, maybe not a test, and EXAM. If you think about it, you should get religeon no matter what. if you die and then you're dead and nothing happens after, then you've worshipped God and maybe made other people happy. Now, if you hadn't worshipped God while you were alive and you die and nothing happens, then think about all the people that you didn't make happy? Now, if you worshipped God while you were alive and now you're in heaven, yay for you! you get an eternity of happiness with the ones you love! If you haven't worshipped God your whole life and now you're dead, then you're in Hell. hmmmm, now that doesn't sound fun! not only did you not make people on Earth happy, you're in Hell! that's not cool! so think about it. 70-100 years is really short compared to eternity. so it's better to have realigeon while you're alive even if nothing happens when you die because you make some awesome friends through churches and stuff and... it's cool. bla? blaa blaa! bla. bllaaa bbblallaa? blablalballaba! 030416 ... /anon But you cant think if theres nothing after you die. Plus religion sort of halts our own minds evolution. The good book doesn't let people think about the BIG questions it just puts them neatley on a plate. And if God was very forgiving and stuff then if you didn't believe in him while you were alive and he does exist then... well if you were good and never sinned too bad... then I think God should let you into Heaven anyway. Is it your fault you lost faith because of personal problems? Its pretty creul to make you suffer in the afterlife when you already suffered in life on earth. And have you ever thought of other weird religions? They are as true to their believers as Christianity is to you. So what happenes to them when they meet so called "God." Do they go to hell for not believing too? Seems unfair what if they never heared of him and never had a chance to believe. And creation is pretty much already prooved to be a false theory. They found early primates skeletons. The bible says earth is only 6000 years old but we know from science that that is very untrue by a few hundred thousand years. The problem was that the people that wrote the Bible didn't have much technology. They were ignorant because they didn't know all that much about the earth then. I bet it started just like a cult, but without all the crazy stuff. A few ground beliefs everyone liked plus Jesus and POOF! New faith! They could make up all kinds of crap once they hooked a following. Oh well I can't change anyone. Christianity is good because it supports morals and prevents some chaos and crime. But its bad cause it is so simple in its beliefs and prevents deep thinking. Budhism would be a better choice for a religion in my opinion. And what do you mean make people happy? Unless your a pastor or something then that never happens. Christians just force there religion on people and the super zelot ones wont let you have any fun which hurts more people then anything. Its good to devot your life to helping people THROUGH the church but you can do that anyway. 030417 ... /anon (wands) But you cant think if theres nothing after you die. Plus religion sort of halts our own minds evolution. The good book doesn't let people think about the BIG questions it just puts them neatley on a plate. And if God was very forgiving and stuff then if you didn't believe in him while you were alive and he does exist then... well if you were good and never sinned too bad... then I think God should let you into Heaven anyway. Is it your fault you lost faith because of personal problems? Its pretty creul to make you suffer in the afterlife when you already suffered in life on earth. And have you ever thought of other weird religions? They are as true to their believers as Christianity is to you. So what happenes to them when they meet so called "God." Do they go to hell for not believing too? Seems unfair what if they never heared of him and never had a chance to believe. And creation is pretty much already prooved to be a false theory. They found early primates skeletons. The bible says earth is only 6000 years old but we know from science that that is very untrue by a few hundred thousand years. The problem was that the people that wrote the Bible didn't have much technology. They were ignorant because they didn't know all that much about the earth then. I bet it started just like a cult, but without all the crazy stuff. A few ground beliefs everyone liked plus Jesus and POOF! New faith! They could make up all kinds of crap once they hooked a following. Oh well I can't change anyone. Christianity is good because it supports morals and prevents some chaos and crime. But its bad cause it is so simple in its beliefs and prevents deep thinking. Budhism would be a better choice for a religion in my opinion. And what do you mean make people happy? Unless your a pastor or something then that never happens. Christians just force there religion on people and the super zelot ones wont let you have any fun which hurts more people then anything. Its good to devot your life to helping people THROUGH the church but you can do that anyway. 030417 ... /anon oops sorry 030417 ... ferret some of those questions are very good. i don't have the answers for all of them. and yes, i have thought of all those weird religeons. think about this: think about everyone who thought that Darwin was crazy, who had all these other crazy theories. He proved them wrong, i'm sure that he had followers. and also, kind of an out there theory but i was thinking of this too. What if some stupid jealous scientis guy made everything up about the world, and then it was mistaken for truth, and all of our instruments are based on that and they would all be wrong and we've been lied to all our lives? eh? i'm tired. bla 030417 ... /anon Good point but it prolly would have been figured out by now if they had lied. I know some scientific theories are probably false because of miscalculations and such. But I don't think we can take the Bible literally anymore because of stuff like carbon dating and artifacts found in recent years due to technology advancement that people didn't have then. I do believe in a higher power but I'd rather believe in a universal one that is impossible to know about before death and I think that there is no pure good or evil. There is no such thing as pure good or evil in my opinion. Even Hitler had a little good in him. Not much but it was there. I think after death is much more magnificent and mysterious then Christianity seems to make it out to be. There must be something powering our minds and thoughts somewhere. Also the abuse of religion and how it causes war and pregjeduce and death pisses me off too. All right I'm too tired to rant any more. 030417 ... Rotten77 o my god u guys I could talk about this subject forever (and I probably will right now) and I have been in limbo about it for years now--I just can't figure it out. I mean, one of the things that could account for god not bing simpathetic enuf when people haven't lived perfectly could b that there is some sort of higher order that he himself has to follow or something, even if he wants to give them a break. And then I guess if that's true it gets u around the question of what is good/evil if there is no god, u know? Like it's part of the higher order of things that there is wrong and right, but then u could mayb say that this "higher order" is just common sense or evolution--like it's to our disadvantage to go around killing each other--not bcuz it's wrong, but bcuz it makes good sense, from a legal or evolutionary perspective. And then this leads me to wonder: so if it's all common sense and stuff, mayb there is nothing more than this, and religion and god and all that is just our attempt to make ourselves feel better bcuz we want to belong to something more than us. I mean is it possible that life ultimately has no meaning whatsoever? K but what I really wanted to say was that I totally feel u on how religious people bcome prejudice and it causes hate and intolerance, etc, but I think that an important thing to remember is that people are imperfect, while the ideas they think they r following may not b. k so there's my ramblings. Thanx for listening. I wonder if I made any sense. 030417 ... /anon I pretty much said all I got in previous blathes but I agree with you on the fact that the people are imperfect while there religion is supposedly perfect. I got confused because of the double negative. Everyone will die just no one can know when but I think that we will be pondering the meaning of life forever never finding is because you have to be dead to know it. I dont mean to sound negative or double negative. 030419 ... ferret how about triple-negative? 030419 ... Rotten77 lol. yeah I think it was a triple actually. I wasn't sure if I was gonna make sense, but I just had to get that off my chest. thanks for listening and responding anyway! 030421 ... ferret i'm psychic! don't post that scuzz.... although you will anyway. 030507 ... scuzz These are all fundemental attempts at really good discussion questions. You all know a certain amount about 'religion' but I can tell you haven't pursued it in any direction other than scientifically. Carbon dating doesn't prove anything if you allow a god that created it and knows his way around it to brainwash us. There are so many little trivial theories I could throw at you, but I don't bother because I'm a Christian and know the truth. That might sound harsh, but my point in this is not to make your side of the story 'nice'. There is no alternative after you die. There is no massless 'space' where you go; there is no non-existence. (Imagine yourself not existing after you die. If you can't comprehend that, don't try for all your other stuff.) You'll have to deal with God and give an account of your life, regardless of whatever you think you know scientifically. Do you really think you can argue with Him about carbon dating? I would apologize for 'going off' on you, because I'm sick of people that throw around little theories and discussions everyday without having read any of the Bible except the 'rules' and 'life-limitations' because of sin, but it wouldn't feel right for me to apologize for this. Yeah, I'm done for now. (lol ferret. I won't say anything) 030508 ... ferret hehe, ok, great, i thought that that was going to be a personal assautly on me for being chosen to have a page written about me but hey! that was great! 030509 ... User24 ferret; what an honour you have - having a discussion lke this under your name! as /anon said, the good book doesn't allow people to think, and, in response to Rotten77's notion of a higher power above God, Christians in general would not agree; God is the highest power, you do not question God, and as the priests are God's representatives here on earth, you don't question them, either. (but that's another debate entirely) I can agree with the idea that one may as well follow XYZ religion because "what if it is true"? But that's flawed in two major ways, firstly, I don't think God would be too pleased that the only reason you believed in him was based on pros/cons on life after death, and secondly, some would argue that eternity is not a very attractive deal anyway. All mythological religions have distinct differences, and distinct similarities, I'm going to look at the similarities, and try to discern why they are common factors; worship of one or more ethereal beings in return for something, usually an afterlife. let's break this into more manageable chunks.. Worship. With a centralised system, ie Churches, temples, etc, this is neccessary to; a) bring society together b) introduce new ideas to all followers (upgrading religion) c) generate money (for upkeep of churches or personal profit - I'm not making a judgement on this) It's good to bring society together for many reasons, firstly, if everyone has a common ground, less disputes will arise (ideally), a feeling of community is essential for the upkeep of a democratic society; if no-one cares about their fellow man, no-one will vote, society will eventually fall apart (what's happening here in England right now), also, it can bring people together in the event of crisis, positive mental attitude is easy when God's on your side. introduction of new ideas is also essential for a society that wants to 'keep with the times', alerting people to new events, warning people of impending disasters, it can all go through the temples, so people now see a material benefit, not only will they become immortal, but also get local news and gossip generating wealth is so obviously important there's no need to discuss it. So, religions have evolved into similar forms for social and political reasons, but is that all they're there for? to control society, to provide society with a common ground? sure, no-one has seen an angel or a dragon lately, but do we need to? is the evidence of our own eyes good enough proof, and why require proof at all? surely proof would defeat the object; no-one worships the sun anymore, we all know how it works and what it is, it's no longer mystical now that we have proof. So maybe religion only works when there is no proof? a system founded entirely on belief, not seeing or needing any evidence. Perhaps so, but then why the need to remind us that there was proof, but it was long ago, and one day will be proved again, to satisfy those who still want proof? to tell them that, 'ah yes, there -was- proof once, and if you wait long enough, there'll be proof again', it's interesting to note the differences between religion and philosophy, where religion says "no.", philosophy says "maybe, let's_discuss it" perhaps that's the failing of religion in our modern context, and why mysticism and philosophy is becoming more popular? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I know I haven't really made a point here, but as usual, I'm just providing food for thought. My brain was hungry. 030704 ... User24 and I also lost the plot a little, I was going to go on and describe the reasons why it's almost always a supernatural being, and why it's an afterlife that's being promised, then I was going to list other common factors and discuss them in a similar fashion, but what do you know, my lunch break is over. and I think I said all I need to. 030704 ... ferret it seems like an aweful waste of time to live life if you just die and then nothing happens. and another thing: you don't need to see something to believe it exists, scuzz posed an interesting point to my on the phone once, "it's like the war you know? what proof do you really have that it's going on besides the media? and people telling you what's happening?" not the exact quote but close enough. i just thought that that was interesting. kinda revives the whole, "did we really visit the moon" thing. 030704 ... Dafremen Ok, first off, I didn't come here to get into another one of these repetitious discussions about God and life and why it seems like such a waste to so many people. I've come here to ask where this little guy came from and to ask the blather_gods if we can keep him. So can we? He's so friggin spunky and he's into everything. I'd say he's well named. Blather needs one of these. (We'll need to get outlet covers.) So can we blather_gods? Can we? (There'll be a litter box in every corner. Promise.) (Oh, and ferret? Ask your religious questions on ask_daf, maybe we can come up with some sort of reasonable answers between the wording of your questions and the guesses I match them to.) 030718 ... ferret ;) feels good to be appreciated. and that litter box idea, no need, i can flush. i came from a strange place at a strange time in a strange way. i stumbled upon this strange place due to a strange blatherskite, strangely named scuzz. how_strange! 030718 ... ferret smells like a long skinny rodent 030719 ... /anon my friend has an albino ferret named cracker. 030720 ... ferret hello_ferret 030806 ... Dafremen I wouldn't recommend that. It could end up being a link to more of my alpha-puke. 030806 ... Syrope of all the things he complained about, i think he was most offended by the ferret. i couldn't shake the feeling that he felt challenged by me planning something like that. i noticed a lot of things about him i hadn't seen before. most of them not favorable. 080602 what's it to you? who go blather from