lets_just_be_friends yummychuckle i hate this line. I'll murder it... 010624 ... Casey I have never used it, or never receved it. 010624 ... Persona cliche I'd laugh if I heard it 010624 ... black-dyed gel product lets just be friends... you know the kind that have deep meaningful relationships, share a profound mental connection, and, oh yeah, have lots of hardcore sex. Platonic my ass! Worst line ever! 010624 ... baby satan "lick your own dog free." that's more like it. 010624 ... Sol dammit dammit damit dammit dammit, I hate this, especially as i tend to fall for girls after i know them and am freinds with them, so if it isnt them saying it, its my own stupid conscience and inferiority complex. Have not used it myself though, have not had the opportunity 010625 ... silentbob sol, i tend to constantly be in the very same boat as you. come. take your paddle, we'll paddle to spain and find some nice irish women. 010625 ... Casey you can't steer a boat 010625 ... Sol who needs to steer the boat? the currents take you to where you should be, silentbob I would thee join and together we would find ourselves some sunwarmed beaties upon the continent 010625 ... birdmad friend_is_a_four_letter_word 010625 ... yummychuckle guess who just received that line 5 minutes ago? :::points to self::: yep. AND I WAS THE ONE DUMPING HIM! how did things get turned around? next thing I know, I'm calling him back saying "i changed my mind, don't dump me" it was strange. I don't want to be alone... 010625 ... dB Women apparently use this line quite a bit. It essentially means "I do not want to see you anymore". This is crazy. How are people supposed to know what you mean when you won't say what you mean? 010625 ... Marjorie We can still be friends, can't we? No, damnit! We cannot be friends. We cannot even be enemies. We can only be nothing. One big fat nothing that doesn't exist anymore. Decomposing Growing smaller and smaller Nothing. 010625 ... boysdontcry the meaning between the lines was that somewhere along the line i had become someone she felt the need to get away from yeah, thanks alot 010625 ... nemo yeah so the kid who likes the colour orange said this to me, then i was stupid enough to ask for a kiss... he said, it will mean absolutely nothing but tounge or no tounge? tounge of course, what a great kiss but it meant nothing, thats ok. we're just friends anyways. 010626 ... Dafremen Face it...unless there is homosexuality on one side or the other, women and men, boys and girls, CANNOT be friends. THere is ALWAYS some underlying sexual SOMETHING on one side or the other. Is it right? Probably not. Can we change it? Probably not. Is this a bad thing? I dunno, you like listening to someone yack about clothes and other people all day when there's absolutely no chance of anything sexual in return? Yea...that's what I was just saying to myself too...probably not. 010626 ... landruc It sure sounds like knowing everything is a drag... 010626 ... Dafremen You don't know the half of it pal...ignorance truly IS bliss. 010626 ... landruc So you know what not knowing is like too? That is impressive. 010626 ... Dafremen Hey I'm just an observer man...when I see folx like you walking around with a glazed expression and a half smile on your lips I just figured it must be blissful. So go ahead, you can tell me...is it? 010626 ... Dafremen By the way...are you ALWAYS this easily impressed? 010626 ... boysdontcry "We started on the wrong track, introduced as friends but now i wanna take you further right to the end of the line (is that wrong?) ... i make up my mind but then i lose my nerve is this what i get is this what i deserve ...one of these days i'm gonna tell you that i love you take you by the hand and tell you i've been thinkin' of you and if i'm wrong then lets_just_be_friends" excerpt John Moore & The Expressway, 1989 010626 ... landruc Blissful? It's better than 'knowing' I "CANNOT" have any friends of the opposite sex, better than 'knowing' that there's "ALWAYS some" "sexual SOMETHING" there that for some reason MUST get in the way, 'knowing' that "sexual SOMETHING" may be absent on one side but it can't for some reason be absent from both sides, and better than 'knowing' that ALL people (including you?) are shallow, women only talking about clothes and men only wanting sex. What a simple and pathetic world. I'm glad I'm too "ignorant" to "know" I live in it. 010626 ... nocturnal and that is so not true, about boys and girls being friends. when you're friends with a member of the male species, they tend to tell you a lot more about themselves than you care to know. for example, all about masturbation, how they think of girls, that kind of shit. maybe it's just me, but once I'm friends with a guy and they tell me all that crap, I get sick thinking about them as anything more than a friend. 010626 ... birdsdontcry she was always the first one to say something crazy neither of us volunteered anything about masturbation worst thing i ever said "i know this seems sudden and i know you'd probably rather hear this from someone else, but lately i've come to realize that i am completely in love with you." as it turned out, i was right it wasn't the things she said in the end that are still killing me as much as it was what she didn't say in the beginning but i guess that's what i get for wanting to be something good for a change (now u know) 010627 ... Sol being 'just freinds' works for me, many of my closest freinds are girls, why is it an issue, you simply have to understand how you are percieving things, although there could be often an interest for more, and i usually fall once i know someone, it does not come to anything, and the recipiant either know ors they dont, either way it does not affect the freindship unless you make it do so 010627 ... Dafremen I am SO enjoying this. Do go on landruc. So yea..so um...they can NEVER be friends...it just can't work. Girls have this alien fascination with all things cloth that men are just incapable of appreciating (unless they've developed fashion sense). I'm so GLAD you choose to live blissfully in your fantasy world full of guys with fashion sense. You degenerate you. 010627 ... landruc I've met a few, actually. And some women with no fasion sense. But perhaps this conversation should be continued on the "degeneracy_of_fasion" page? 010627 ... landruc Or "degeneracy_of_fasHion," if one prefers conventional spelling. 010627 ... Sol my female freinds have no great obsession with clothes, and even if they do why does it affect a freindship, just do other things, we are a group to whom appearences are of little importance 010627 ... Menglod umm.. oh geeeh, I´m in big trouble here I think.. I have friends both males and females and some gays - both female and male gays... oh lord what does that to me??!!! I can assure you that I am heterosexual, been living with my bf for seven years now so.. those friends of mine really want sex from me?? except for the male- homoseaxuals then. And my female friends who are not lesbians. Naw... what was the subject?? 010627 ... Dafremen Everybody wants to screw you. It is only natural. You o0ze sex with every step you take...how could they not? I rest my case. 010627 ... baby satan i ooze sex when i shit. 010627 ... landruc Better that than vice_versa. 010628 ... silentbob sol, i never before realized until reading all your actions on here that you and i are exactly the same. i could relate to every thing you said. it doesnt affect the friendship unless you call them at 3:00 in the morning and beg them to go out with you and that sort of thing. it also depends on how you asked them. if it was casually, you can get away with being friends. if it was desperate, like a sappy note or something, well...that's harder. it depends on how strong your tie was in the first place, and even then it could ruin it. 010628 ... Menglod No, not everyone wants to screw me. They do have bf and gf that they love. But we have lots of fun when we meet and we don´t talk much about clothes.. We are just friends!!! 010628 ... Dafremen That's what YOU think. No...they really want to screw you....sorry...wish it was different. It's not. 010628 ... Sol daff, for a grown and married man you seem worryingly sexually frustrated. Silentbob I am scared by the similarity, although it seems you are a litle more verbally capable than my tongue tied self. of course m/f freinds can exist, why not? 010628 ... Dafremen S'Bob, If you had feelings for a friend, it might not get in the way. If she had feelings for you too? Would you say..."No, I wouldn't want to jeopardize our friendship?" or would you go for it? Let's say you were both available. Therein lies my point. This is NOT a relationship that qualifies as a friendship anymore than my relationship with my daughter is a friendship. I'm not attracted to her and there's absolutely nothing sexual...but if I was her friend, would seeing some teenage boy with his arm around her bother me as much as it does? No of course not. We're NOT friends...she's my daughter, I'm her dad. The same thing holds true for other relationships...if there are feelings other than friendship and loyalty..if there is some OTHER emotional investment. If there IS something like that there...it's hardly more than a friendship based on wishful thinking and/or patient opportunism on the part of one person or the other and whether or not it EVER becomes anything romantic or sexual, the relationship and their perception of it WILL be tainted by those feelings, regardless of good intentions. 010628 ... Sol how can a freindship be tainted by 'sexual desire' or whatever you deem it to be, it can surely only be tainted by mistrust and so on, in my experience it simply changes the perameters of the freindship, no more. It intensifies it. 010628 ... Dafremen Sol, For a grown and married man, I have unmistakably outgrown most of my unwarranted idealism. This is normal. Is it cynicism? Perhaps it is, but then again so is saying Washington D.C. is corrupt. Is that an outrageous cynical statement as well? Experience tends to punish idealists who hold on to ideals that aren't born out by the facts. I've chosen to temper my idealism with realism...and as cut and dry as you would like to make male-female relationships appear, the REALITY of the facts just don't bear your conclusions out. I am an observer, I've said it before. I have been married exactly twice. This second time around has lasted 11 years and is more pleasant today than it was when we started. Having left singlehood behind long ago, I have been fortunate to have observed humans and their relationships with each other from outside the BIAS of a love/sex/attention/affection starved bachelor, and instead from the safety of this relationship that we've built TOGETHER, (based at least in part on my "ill-concieved notions" which in turn are based upon the aforementioned observations) I started at age 4 or 5 (first awareness)with 0 preconceived notions and went from there WITHOUT an inherited belief system ie. parents. Almost EVERYTHING that I have come to call TRUE or REAL came from years of observing the outcomes of events and subjecting my conclusions to the scrutiny of time. When the facts contradict my conclusion, the contradictory part is thrown out, the conclusion reexamined minus the contradiction and resolved with the facts. Not just my own personal feelings on the subject. Not objective enough for ya? My statements are not based upon sexual frustration(If I felt the need to keep a running tab of my sex life with the missus here on blather, THEN you might have some basis for your statement that I'm sexually frustrated...as it is..I'm quite happy and from all accounts...so is the missus...either way frustrating does NOT describe my sex life.) although, that's an absolutely excellent way of blowing off my statements as unworthy of examination(Seems like I take this objective search for the truth more seriously than some folx. There's an avenue I would have investigated before blowing it off.) I mean after all...I don't know of many people that would ADMIT feelings are there when they are. Why? Well hell, if they don't like you back...the jig is up and the friendship will never be quite the same afterwards. Idealism can be a good thing....hold on to it for as long as you can. Just don't let it become NAIVETE in the face of the facts at some later date. That truly WOULD be tragic. You gentlemen TALK a great game, but unfortunately you can only speak for YOU in those friendships you have with members of the opposite sex..and I have no doubt that it is the IDEA of a sexless, classless, raceless world that you believe makes my statements false. Not the facts...just the hope that your IDEAL society will somehow materialize out of the REAL society. I imagine that your own personal experiences haven't been anywhere NEAR as platonically motivated as you would have folx believe, but then again...it's entirely possible that you're both a couple of statistical oddities. Guess we'll just have to wait...and see. Remember though...you gotta LOOK past what you want to believe before you can see what actually IS. 010628 ... Dafremen I'm sorry...would you care to describe to me the manner in which "changing the parameters of a relationship" and "tainting the relationship" differ? I'm all ears..this should be good. 010628 ... Sol to taint is at least implicative of damage/corruption whereas a change in the perameters simply is that, a change in the way your views and actions are, not neccessarily a negative one, simply a change, it even may bring you closer, it would to me, as I would feel more able to trust the person, as they had not feared revealing their feelings. 010628 ... Dafremen taint v. - 2. An infecting touch, influence, or tinge. infect v. - 3. To communicate to or affect with, as qualities or emotions. I'm still waiting for that difference. Sounds like we agree then. It DOES change the relationship. It does so in a way that isn't really comparable to any change you would expect from "friendship". YOU would change the definition of the nature of friendship rather than admit that what you have ISN'T exactly friendship..it's something different. So far I'm not convinced in the least. Besides, it takes TWO to tango. While you may speak your perspective and you may even represent it truthfully, you cannot know the heart of your "friend" and therefore have based your conclusions upon your own reaction to the relationship. I based mine on watching OTHER people's reactions to the same situation. On years of hearing people give lip service to m/f friendship and then watching them turn around and engage in this inuendo-laced relationship whose interpersonal dynamics only partially resemble friendship. Invariably there are elements involved in such relationships which do NOT appear in what are traditionally known as friendships. NOW if you would like to ASSIGN that type of relationship the label "friendship" and if you would like to call that person "friend" I don't see anything wrong with that. Just so you realize that they AREN'T the same thing...and they CAN'T always be treated as such. 010628 ... landruc Dafremen, you have almost made my point for me. We are (or at least I am) not judging your relationships, which we have no knowledge of, but you are judging ours. You have no knowledge of us other than our words, and can only observe those people you do know from the outside. Anyone who has studied logic can tell you that absence of evidense is not evidense of absence. As a single individual you have no grounds to say what is universally impossible for all people. Such is akin to fundamentalism. If "idealism" is a suspension of universal judgement and "cynicism" is making grand totalistic negative statements, then I find "idealism" to be a far more logical and realistic position. All I know is that I, personally, have friends of the opposite sex, some of them good friends. And finding some of them attractive doesn't get in the way. I can't say whether anybody else does, but I suspect it is possible (I don't think I'm unique), however rare and imperfect it may be. 010628 ... landruc ...like my spelling. "EvidenCe." 010628 ... landruc ...and I didn't mean "single" as in "unmarried." 010628 ... Dafremen "And finding some of them attractive doesn't get in the way." Perhaps not...but does it change the nature of the relationship as compared to say...a friend of yours who you could NOT be attracted to? Of course it does...by all admissions it does. I'm not judging ANYTHING about ANYONE's relationships. I bet they are pretty damned cool. They might be the coolest most exhilarating thing since Ice Water enemas but that DOESN'T make the relationship a friendship in the classic sense. Perhaps the "classic sense" needs to be updated? Reevaluated? Quite possible...until such time I stand by my statements because they are NOT based on absence of evidence, (which I JUST got done telling some philosophy major was NOT proof that something DOESN'T exist.) but rather based on a statistical probability based on observation and logical thought. Was NEVER too strong a word? Not when you're speaking to idealists. Tell an idealist that something is REMOTELY possible and they will engage in that activity until the day they die and suffer the consequences as well. It's really YOU that is making MY point for me. You're willing to fight the idea to the point of making assumptions about relationships which have YET to draw to their natural conclusion. You've decided the outcome of those relationships before any outcome is reached. You HONESTLY gunna tell the young girl that all of those guys that are her friends...are there cuz they wanna be "friends"? Go ahead. Let's see how often YOUR advice causes feelings to get hurt and relationships to cease ALTOGETHER. Then we'll see how much hurt MINE would cause shall we? You may be willing to face the inevitable consequences of blind idealism...are you willing to have others pay for believing your idealism as well? 010628 ... landruc Yes, I am. "...but does it change the nature of the relationship as compared to say...a friend of yours who you could NOT be attracted to? Of course it does...by all admissions it does." Sure it does, but by the very second half of your own first sentence quoted above you admit that it is possible for me to not be attracted to certain women, and therefore they can not be attracted to me, and therefore we can be friends in "the classic sense," whatever that is. If you mean perfect idea friendship, then it's you who are an idealist, not me. Furthermore, I have never given any advice here. I have only said something is sometimes possible. I would never and have never told any girl that "all those guys" just want to be their friends, honestly or otherwise. But I would honestly tell them that a few might. And I'd tell them to be extremely careful. Telling them none of them was honest would end more relationships - all of them before they even began - and would also be drawing making assumptions about relationships that have yet to draw to their natural conslusions. In short, yes, "NEVER" was too strong a word. I rest my case. 010628 ... Dafremen Since we've both rested our cases and neither of us is in agreement...might I suggest that we put the entire thing to rest? Or should we go on? Your call. It's getting kind of table tennis match tedious to me and I believe both of our perspectives have been properly presented. 010629 ... landruc Actually, I think we both may be in agreement. If your point is that sexual attraction affects friendship, then I agree. If you agree that "NEVER" is too strong a word, that was my point. 010629 ... Dafremen Factually...never may be too strong a word...for my purposes it was the word to use. I hope we can both agree that statistically it's unlikely to work out although I suppose we might also be able to agree that if we as a society continue to evolve toward the concept of unity..that these relationships will continue to become more viable as CONVENTIONAL friendships without the additional baggage(or exhilarating element if you like) of sexual undertone and inuendo. That would certainly be nice. It's not here yet. Love at first sight is rare as well...we know this and yet our mythologies and fantasies reiterate it as a common theme. Does it happen? Yes. Is it likely? No. Will kids get hurt falling in "love" at first sight all the time? Certainly. Will they be disappointed afterwards? Probably. Will a number of them become cynical and hard hearted? Likely. "Love at first sight is a myth." Does NOT seem an unreasonable statement in this light even if it isn't factually accurate. It's about as dishonest as saying you'll never hit a hole in one. 010629 ... yummychuckle i didn't read all the blathers before this...but... I have plenty of guy friends and I am not attracted to the majority of them and I'm damn sure I never will be, nor have they been attracted to me and they don't now and wont in the future. It is possible to be just friends. and then i do have some guy friends that have liked me and that i have liked... but everything depends on...something else. oh fuck what i was trying to point out. oh well. *clinging to confusion* 010629 ... Menglod love at first sight is not a myth. It happened to me 7 years ago and now we´re having an adorable baby grrl :) I love him still, and it took me three minutes to understand I was in love when I saw my man the very first time. 010629 ... Dafremen This is dedicated to the SPEED browsers who tend to miss stuff when they read: " Love at first sight is rare as well...we know this and yet our mythologies and fantasies reiterate it as a common theme. Does it happen? Yes. Is it likely? No. Will kids get hurt falling in "love" at first sight all the time? Certainly. Will they be disappointed afterwards? Probably. Will a number of them become cynical and hard hearted? Likely. "Love at first sight is a myth." Does NOT seem an unreasonable statement in this light even if it isn't factually accurate. It's about as dishonest as saying you'll never hit a hole in one. " 010629 ... landruc Huh... Now I'm in the Cynics_Corner. I disbelieve in love at first sight completely. Well, at this point I'm not going to say it's impossible. Everyone has their different experiences, and different lacks of experience, I suppose. All knowledge is subjective. My definitions of "love" and "friendship" are neither the "classic" nor the common ones, so that's probably why I see things differently. Onwards agnosticism! Out. 010630 ... Menglod ah! you have give this lots of thought eh? So really, you don´t have to listen to anyone but yourself? And you are so wise that you have that freedom to be rude to anyone as well. I hope you are not like that in the real life. 010630 ... Menglod ah! you have give this lots of thought eh? So really, you don´t have to listen to anyone but yourself? And you are so wise that you have that freedom to be rude to anyone as well. I hope you are not like that in the real life. 010630 ... Menglod Sorry if I didn´t read it properly, but English isn´t my first language. There mustn´t always be problems with relationships and sexual undertones in jokes and such. It could be good, and fun, bring people together. Ofcourse it can ruin friendships, it´s sad when it happens. Is love childish to talk about? I must seem very naive to you, writing about my family in that way I did. Yet, that´s what life is a great deal about huh? To be loved. That´s what we all need. God is love, love is God. 010630 ... Menglod Sorry if I didn´t read it properly, but English isn´t my first language. There mustn´t always be problems with relationships and sexual undertones in jokes and such. It could be good, and fun, bring people together. Ofcourse it can ruin friendships, it´s sad when it happens. Is love childish to talk about? I must seem very naive to you, writing about my family in that way I did. Yet, that´s what life is a great deal about huh? To be loved. That´s what we all need. God is love, love is God. 010630 ... Menglod Sorry, for my slow internet, I didn´t mean to add same things twise. 010630 ... Dafremen I have yet to have anyone back up rude content with rude intent on my part. I have no INTENT here other than to create. Am I always right? I suppose I could be, but that would make for rather stupid one-dimensional art dontcha think? No I think that the way I do what I do is the way what I do should be done...and so I do. English is your second language? Congratulations it is my wife's second language as well. My second language is Mexican Spanish...what's your first? Do I think your talk of love is naive? A bit...yes...do I think your love is naive and fooish...HEAVEN'S NO! I think your talk is a bit naive because winning the lottery after playing a few times does NOT make you an expert on whether or not playing the lottery is generally money spent in vain...neither does falling in love at first sight(winning he lottery) make your opinion about the ODDs of falling in love at first sight an unbiased one. Quite the contrary, your bias is unmistakeable. Talking about your family silly? It's obvious you've tried to create a picture of my personality based upon what I write. Bad idea. Only very little of what I write reflects who I am. I'm an observer after all...what I write reflects more what I see and what I empathize with or feel for than it does who I AM and what I like or dislike. The truth of the matter is that I am the proud father of 4 kids ages 7 to 14. 3 girls 1 boy all my prides and joys. I am married to a very wonerful lady I met when I was 21...we've had 11 wonderful years together and I love her more today than I did yesterday...which seems to be the continuing trend in our relationship. All of that said, I reiterate that Love at first sight...may as well be a myth for as infrequently as it occurs and male/female friendships never happen and won't happen until the day we looking at each other as a sex or a race or a physical deformity and start looking at each other as human beings...plain flavor. IF you find one...treat it with kid gloves...it's rarer than you think. 010701 ... Dafremen Make that the day we STOP looking at each other as a sex...a race...a physical deformity..blah blah blah PArdon all of the missing character's...my typing is fast. 010701 ... Menglod My first language is Swedish, and I sometimes wish I could express myself less rigid in English,but that´s part of the charm learning new languages. I was in a bad mood yesterday by the way, shouldn´t be typing when I am like that. You are so right, one have to see beyond a person´s sex for having good friendship. And race, look, or whatever. To see the human inside. 010701 ... nemo oww 011118 ... silentbob i'll make it easy on you 011118 what's it to you? who go blather from