waiting_for_all_your_replies Grace let_us_be_real let_us_be_real and God said Let us be real.. Joda your words your entire tone is simply evocative of the sprinkling of Anti-Christian sentiment all over this forum Your words are bigoted, ignorant,(sorry,of us,and what Christans have said here,yes it's un enlightened ..as we've "attacked" no one.. ) God forbid we would though then, thye want us to be 'Christ' Himself. If you Joda use the same words Joda wrote above and apply them to YOURSELVES then look back at your words, and your words to Christians you may see a thing you can't face- or just don't care about.. Part of that reality is You guys don't really want Christians here.. If you do, and they speak on God or their faith or relationship with Him you term it a 'personal ' 'attack' or 'affront' No.. you don't really want Christians here Don't talk about ''freedom'' in places like this.Simply not true It's bogus and a one way street , 'yours'.. Ask any Christian whos stayed here and left..or changed their name and significantly watered down their words heart or sentiment You want us to lie? And say you guys have been warm to us? Kind? Obliging? friendly? decent? You haven't A large clump of you have been significantly (not) hiding A thinly veiled hate (or contempt) towards Christians..Most of us see it quite clearly. Or in getting attacked, mocked, pre judged and spured here..will.. So, let_us_be_real blather.newdream doesn't want Christians here.Or at least its current participants don't.. And unless we see a substantial amount of them or others here volleying in on our behalf why we 'should' stay here (or want to) We won't Joda..it's because (sorry) of people like you and some others who have done nothing but offer up..what we'd call 'mindless rhetoric'about us (Christians) and other such attacks on US (look around..and tell yourself the truth)- that we go and we walk away hurt sad many im sure teary eyed dissappointed some maybe deeply angered or annoyed All feeling rejected, here, in this place. Why? Because we (Christians) have feelings as you all do But you all wax on about 'tolerance' For some and this is what we've seen on blather, 'tolerence' is just a veiled term for mis trust surely hostility, or, as I said ,contempt Keep it up and you can pass out big hats and cigars and make yourselves an 'old boys' club Special handshakes It's not just you.. Alot of secular groups and online enterprises are this.. Most Christians again will walk away from this place because someone droning on about who/what they don't know will feel right ''brave'' in attacking Christians.. and scared to defend them or speak on behalf of any of them (us) When we hear of some supposed Christians (here) saying "Oh, I'M a Christian but I 'hate' Christians.." How dumb is that? They brag about hating and they think they are Christians?! So WHY would we want to share our thoughts our hurts our feelings much less poems with anyone here? Unless it lines up with how ''you'' think(pretty much FACT here..) And because Christ is THAT much a part of our lives that He's going to come out in our words of hope and encouragement and some times sadness or displeasure..or dismay..or happiness or poems or prayers..or scriptures.. So, again let_us_be_real There's nothing gutsy or unique or special about ragging on Christians in a place like this..(A secular form with mostly non Christians or weak ones in hiding)Few real sincere ones who can speak freely or with comfort.. Why don't you all admit the sad (for you) truth? You really don't want any of us around or will try your best to see that hope come true How sad and lost and ignorant of all the truths-are such ones Now go spew forth..more 'tolerant' secular humanist rhetoric about why you 'cant stand Christians'blahblahblah We don't much appreciate hypocrits either..(sorry,again,but true) And all of the above is why "I" left.. And am somewhat turned off being here. It's a shame.. We can't be who we are here I highly doubt we can.. In any full way.. You guys can though.. So. let_us_be_real 030505 ... same see new_wannabe_gods_hear_this 030505 ... Grace btw let_us_be_real is me, Grace i left here last week i can't speak for others,few, here who may think they are Christians.. i'm not afraid to share what i feel or my name here i think it might be fine or equitable if the whole place replied (if they wish to).and it can be kind and respectful.i..think you can gauge pretty much hearts by words,sometimes.. looking around it's not hard to find..what i've said to be true,and true for us.. i'm not in high school your views may or may not change over time i know without doubt my words speak fully well for many/most Christians who have come and gone from here. including myself some may stay nothing is holding me here but i wanted to say this on our behalf.. take care peace 030505 ... grendel chrity was the exception, the only reason that people turned on her was because in one night she flooded us with go to: i_have_words and did it to such an extent that it couldn't help but annoy the crap out of people. As for any other Christians that the blather-crowds have turned on, it's always because many/most have this knack for name-calling and finger-pointing that comes across as more than a little bit sanctimonious. When the crowds you hope to incite with your own brand of mindless rhetoric and condemnations turn against you and you wear out your welcome, you turn and scream "Persecution! Persecution!" displaying the proverbial chutzpah of the child who kills his parents and then throws himself at the mercy of the court because he is an orphan. You poison your own wells and then lament that the water is no longer safe to drink. Again, by and large, most of those who have come here to proselytize, you included have done so in that manner that most isn't going to convince anybody to turn from the paths they may be on. "before you tell your brother about the speck in his eye, remove the plank from your own" 030505 ... Grace " ... When the crowds you hope to incite.." -HUH?:) Who said i wanted to do THAT?:)Nooooo.. "..with your own brand of mindless rhetoric.." -Fine,if that's what u think.. ".. and condemnations.." -Never meant it that way,ever. ''.. turn against you and you wear out your welcome,..'' -Hey now..comeon..What's the big shocker there? They turn on us anyhow.. How odd u think you know me.I don't think i 'know you'..I was here FOUR days..Maybe less.. ''... you turn and scream "Persecution! Persecution!" -I never said that either.. Gosh you're not a very sympathetic fellow(girl) ru? ''..displaying the proverbial chutzpah..'' -Im spirited..fine But I'm not dumb.. Blind cruelty is dumb You seem to be inching at it.Sorry.. --- ''..of the child who kills his parents and then throws himself at the mercy of the court because he is an orphan. " -Ok..hope that worked for you For me..not. I didn't get it 1. and 2. I'm not sure to accept anything you say in whatever form you come back in As you seem to think you know 'me' (you don't) -And most/all Christians , as well.. Don't and Don't -Don't quote me scripture unless you want to think of following ALL of it,or plan on LIVING it.It's how we lives OUR lives trying..Actually -Other wise, respectfully,save it.I'm not impressed. -The above was kind of a rock cave Not to mention NOT TRUE ABOUT ME -Who are you anyway? And why do you think you know me and hate my guts as well? -Yeesh.. -You're cruel,man..or girl.. -Just plain cruel.. -*shakes head.. ''..You poison your own wells and then lament that the water is no longer safe to drink..'' -Poison is not a part of my vocabulary Except in reply to you/your post..here.. I don't know if youre a fellow or gal -This i know you could not be kind to me here,as I said under any name or incarnation -And I don't like arguing unkindess cruelty criticism or strife (contentions),they are not of our faith(Christians). -So go word whip someone else I'm not interested.. ''..Again, by and large, most of those who have come here to proselytize, you included have done so in that manner that most isn't going to convince anybody to turn from the paths they may be on. -I came to visit Sorry it bugs u..others.. I don't much care what you think. At this point..Sorry.. "before you tell your brother about the speck in his eye, remove the plank from your own -Oh yes, you may want to call the phone company Grendel or your Mom.. There's a phone-pole in your eye it's hard to hear your insults, assumptions and stuff with it..in my face..Its also blocking traffic.. -Does he speak for this forum? -Anyone?:) -I'd like to know.. -And if he does I'll go - I want to go where I am wanted, (my presence,there,here..).Not hated, maligned and pre judged as this fellow/gal about just tried to ..do.. -Let me know. -Grendel is actually very well showing what I described..and no one coming to dispute that makes one wonder.. -*blinks.. -Gosh you guys really ARE Christ haters Or Just Christo phobics? 030505 ________ -Above is a copy of a reply I,Grace,gave to a rather mean and contentious (seemd so anyway..) guy on here .. -Id like to know if he is the 'voice' of this forum? -Is he? -Or are you guys afraid to reply,here? Or,just dont care? (Which would kind of match up with all ive said..not excluding this guy just trying to word whip me..) -Let me know.. thanks for an original view please see let_us_be_real peace 030505 ... joda Grace, No one cares if you're here, and no one cares what you do. But if you're going to speak directly to me, and call me ignorant because I am not jumping on the jesus ride you're trying to force everyone on, I pity the fool you're making of yourself. I have taken the time in my life to actually learn about the subjects I dare consider preaching to others, so you can quote the bible all you like, but you offer only one reference to one point of view. If I quote Dr. Seuss, I would be just as worthy an opponent in this contrived debate you're creating. You're assuming too much about people you don't know, and you're doing so with the wool over your eyes. I find this worse than insulting to everyone here, and less than flattering to your own intellect. So, if you're intent on convincing others that you are right, your elitist approach won't help you accomplish that goal. Try understanding that we are all born of free will, and if your religion tells you you'd go to hell for things my religion tells me i'll be saved for, then it's really a matter of personal prefernce, and not your concern. The entire notion that you have read the 'good book' astounds me, as you seem to be misusing the context of many of it's words and misunderstanding it's teachings. You are honestly not like any other christian I've met and discussed religion with, as you seem to have no real idea of the principals which this religion was founded upon. After all, if you're going to argue a hell actually exists, and people who don't follow the christian path are going to be sent there, you must also agree that humans are free to choose their path, otherwise there would be no purpose for a destination of punishment. I'll refer you to the Golden Rule: Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. I don't appreciate you indicating directly to me that I am wrong for my beliefs, just as you wouldn't. I don't think you're wrong - I just think you're pushy, and annoying. If you dislike being judged for expressing your views, consider the forum you've chosen to express them, and realize there are factors here beyond your control. People will follow your example and express their beliefs as well, and you have no right to trivialize them. You, while begging not to be judged, have no right to pass judgement on any person and what kind of life they lead simply because they are not supporting your geurilla approach to spreading your message. This relates to another quote from the bible, which is rolling off the tip of the tongues of everyone reading this, I'm sure. Let's leave the eligibility requirements up to St. Peter, and contiue on with the rest of our balther lives as people who make up a large, diverse community. Grace, if people were wrong for being different, I shudder to think what you would accuse me of if my skin is not the same color as yours, or my customs to are nothing like anything you have ever been exposed to. My nationality is a significant factor in my upbringing, as are my religious beliefs, just as yours might be. If you consider this "wrong", then I assure you, by your logic, you and Hitler will have a jolly 'ol time playing foozball and rockin' out for all eternity, in hell. Send me a postcard, but don't capitalize my alias. It isn't meant to be. 030506 ... joda Also, feel free to retort, but expect no further debate from me, as I have far more enlightening activities to attend to, like understanding and accepting others, understanding and accepting this world we live in, and finding happiness in that. Christains are most certainly welcome. I don't believe you are a christain though - you come across as aggressive, abusive and extremely closed-minded, which is a misrepresentation of christians everywhere, quite honestly. Anyway, should you even be on the internet? There's a lot of porn here, you know... 030506 ... unhinged i don't think grace is wrong to say that any of us here have attacked her; if she feels attacked it is the same reason that we feel preached at. and be careful what you say about grendel based on one reply to something you wrote; he has been known to be a voice of tolerance and reason in this place...and for the five hundreth time to all you 'christians' that come here only to face 'abuse': it's the approach. it isn't the words. if jesus saved you, good for you. but, i myself have had bad experiences with christianity and the mass of hypocrites that worship in the name of jesus. if you want to talk about your relationship with god, that is fine. but people around here are liable to jump on any hint of hypocrisy, condescension, and assumingness. and this is not just confined to words on religion; see: long_sleeves . just like i don't know you, you don't know me. just like you don't want me to judge you, don't judge me. that is the teaching of jesus simply_put. all the rest of your bible was written by people generations later that didn't even know christ in the flesh. if all christians truly practiced the golden rule there would be no debate here. my own relationship with god has been strengthened lately. i found the love of jesus in someone that i feel i could spend the rest of my life with and i'm not even christian. while you may have felt alienated here, this IS a community after all. alienation is a fact of life in the real world. and while we all hide behind words on a screen, it's all just a microcosm of what we wish was real. i come here and sound off on hypocrites because in the real world i bite my tongue. i am done adapting my personality and my actions to my surroundings. i will speak how i feel and unfortunately that comes much easier to me when i am faceless words on a screen. yes; i point the finger at myself. everyone is a hypocrite. but when it comes to religion, hypocrisy will always be met with contention and debate. jesus loved EVERYONE and helped EVERYONE and didn't care if they loved him in return. he wasn't angered by hate; he was saddened by it. i know my world was a happier place when i finally believed that there was no reason to worry over what people thought of me because you can't change others' perceptions of you no matter how hard you try. if you believe in your heart that you are truly right, then you are. but while it's a sticky catch 22, if you want people to be receptive to you then you must be receptive to them even if what they have to say seems or is slanderous. jesus had to die in the face of such adversity. if you believe you are right, you can bare your cross in the face of all us assholes too. 030506 ... The Spork **applause** well said, unhinged. I stayed outta this one because i think my approach would have made things worse 030506 ... Mahayana "Why don't you all admit the sad (for you) truth?" You really don't want any of us around or will try your best to see that hope come true How sad and lost and ignorant of all the truths-are such ones" "Why don't you all" just b/c a minority of individuals here may or may not have verbalized up against you or others, does not mean that [["the all"]] of us subscribe or does not subscribe to what others are saying. Some of us are just off in our own part of the blather world doing our own thing, and dont necc. have a love nor hate nor feel anything towards Christians or any other religiously affiliated lable for that fact ... some of us don't even contemplate religion when reading/writing blathes. and some of us here form an opinion of others based upon their proceedings not on their spiritual beliefs. there are many of us here whom believe in many forms or non-forms of spirituality, there are many of us here whom do not deem spirituality an aspect of their lives, and there are many of us here whom are against spirituality and there are many of us here whom probably do not care either way. and we are all beautiful as we are, and we are all welcomed here. even if we have one individual backing us up and believing in us, even if we have everyone here backing us up and believing in us- we all belong here. if i don't agree with you- you still belong here, if i sort of agree with you- you still belong here, if i completely agree with you- you still belong here... if i don't even notice your posts you still belong here, if i notice all of your posts you still belong here... you belong here b/c [[[you]]] want to be here not b/c of anyone else's actions or non-reactions. so grace if you wanna be here- be here with us. [in the beginning of these past i statements the "i" can be interchanged with you, we,] sometimes [and ive been learning this lately] its not what you say, it can sometimes be how you say it ... [ie resonance of voice, quantity of times, condescension in tonality, statements intentions] ... how the message is conveyed. im not saying you do or do not do these things i am just saying what could be possibilities, when i think of similar situations i have been in myself. nobody here is perfect, im sure i have done my fair share of boiling another's temperature levels on several instances-however it goes both ways- and has provided many wonderful opportunities to not only learn but to also enable me to better articuate my own thoughts/feelings/messages i choose to share, we are enormously passionate and creative individuals here- all of us even if others do not notice- but we all carry our flaws with us, but that's the beauty of it- we are all seemingly very real here- even in not being real- we [are] to a certain degree being extremely authentic 030506 ... pobodys nerfect Okay Grace, I was going to stay out of this, but you wanted everyone's opinion, so here goes... I read "hold_the_damn_phone" earlier and I felt that there were some strong points made there. I basically agree with everything grendel said. I'd also like to add that even though you say you're older and have insinuated you're more mature than the "23 year olds" who come here, that I personally find your behaviour over the last few days to be much like that of my 8 year old nephew when he doesen't get his way. I don't know who originally made the comment to you that pissed you off and maybe they were out of line, but YOUR reaction to it was also out of line. My opinion of you has nothing to do with your religion. It's based on how you behaved when someone made a comment to you that you didn't care for--you punished EVERYBODY for something ONE person said to you by constantly spamming the board with this subject. That's why *I* don't like you. P.S. And for the record, in regards to that age comment you made implying that we were all young, I'm also over 23. 030506 ... Grace So say those (above) who do not know me.. You seem to write an awful lot on 'me' and others (Christians) you don't know and have never met and,who've never truly hurt you at all Not really.. Not me,anyway.. Go pin your judgement and hate on another soul Here's some music that I love It's beautiful to me It is me ~~~ God Bless you all Hope you come to know better and kinder.. Sorry any offence. But,somethin tells me you may've said this,all anyway. You were just waiting for prey.. I am not.. Didn't take much.. That's sad Have blessed lives Christ is the Answer peace http://classicalmus.hispeed.com/articles/debussyclairdelune.html bye *I never listen to cruel or unkind talk,on and on,about anyone.Unless it's attached to an apology.Especially when it's by someone who doesnt know me, if it's about me. Or anyone,really.. Sincerely hope your words don't drive someone "over the edge" who doesn't have God and/or just becomes too hurt, here.. Truly 030506 ... lo yeah i have no idea what this is about and don't want to really get into it but i have only one thing to say...the spaces in your posts are really annoying, take up alot of the page, and make it hard to read your posts. also reposting the same thing everywhere is not cool. especialy when it is really long,weirdly spaced, and saying we all hate christians.there are so many people on here...and what i've seen is people with wildly different ideas about just about every subject coexisting peacefully (most of the time anyway). no one here speaks for me only i do. and as well i don't speak for anyone else. so don't say i hate christians cuz you had a problem with somebody. 030506 ... farky el tercero graphite_salsa POK 030506 ... not tonya ngow horf niy ipup vroom 030506 ... Irreverent Lovejoy splacko flacko jacko non_pampas_mentos minteeeeee 030506 ... those who once were but are now...not Oh for crying out loud!!! Geez some of us blathe only once in awhile and we come back to blather to see shit like THIS. If you come to blather and preach and poke and prod, don't expect to get bouquets of flowers as the crowd's reaction. I don't think the majority of the people here have a specific problem with Christians on the whole, it's just the Christians who insist on forcefully shoving their ideals down everyone's throats without even bothering to listen to the other parties' queries, ideas, or comments. It's this kind of preachy annoying nature that drives people away to other entities or to seclusion. If you want people to join your group/guild/religion/whatever, you absolutely have to allow them to ask you questions. Rattling on and on will just make them search for their earmuffs, or in this case their blindfolds, OR it will just cause the domino effect of people jumping on YOUR case because you jumped on theirs. It's this kind of mess that drives people away to other outlets or into seclusion, so before you whine about being driven away yourself, stop and take a good look at your own actions because what goes around comes around. 030507 ... niska i read that, and i agree. somehow though, i don't think grace will - it doesn't contain an apology. :P 030507 ... jimc standing ovation and many curtain calls unhinged! You nailed it. 030507 ... god christians? what christians? 030507 ... gods toenail we don't need no steekin christians! clean christians is ok though. . 041130 ... other interesting. 081231 what's it to you? who go blather from