anti_war_protests [.:..The SeeR ..:.] Did you guys see the news the other day? I was watching CNBC and they did a segment on the anti-war protests happening around the country. They reported how President Bush commented: "We welcome the anti-war protests as a time honored tradition, a part of democracy." Which is basically to say... "We don't CARE that the American Public, whom we represent, doesn't want a war in Iraq, So we'll just pretend they are celebrating democracy instead!" I am limited by the capacities of technological design and the English language to fully express my frustration like this: GRR! 021212 ... dB We're even having them in New Zealand (I'm going to one tomorrow). But it doesn seem really futile, protesting always does. I was protesting for student rights 4 years ago. Thousands of us swamped parliament and even with all that pressure nothing happened. The gorvernnment shrugged off nearly ten thousand students as if it was nothing. Students here are not entitled to the benefit, only 30% are elligable for student allowances because they are considered 'minors' until the age of twenty five and their parents are asset tested even if they haven't been living with their parents for years. Many students here go hungry, can't afford fucking stationary or rent. Anyway, I'm off on topic. Shutting up now. 021212 ... [.:..The SeeR ..:.] www.FearBush.Com 021212 ... ??????? First, I'm not a Bush supporter. Second, Seer, not everyone thinks Bush is Hitler. That you can't see this indicates to me that all you really want to do is replace one form of "tyranny" with another -- your own -- which is, in a way, our country's real legacy. Your name is so fucking ironic. 021212 ... ??????? So basically what I'm saying is, just because you feel a certain way about public policy, doesn't mean that a significant part of the electorate feels accordingly. There may be 10 thousand protesters, but there are more than 10 million people (probably in the South, mostly) who think those protesters are Unamerican. Your opinion alone (or even a number of similar opinions that seems like a lot to you) does not make a popular mandate. I would hate to have a government that decided policy or otherwise fell apart because of a protest meeting. 021212 ... screwing for virginity i'm positive that a "significant part of the electorate" agrees 100% with bush. the problem is, that i would bet most of the population does not. a protest is not supposed to be effective (at least in american politics) by directly convencing the polititions that they are wrong, they work by convenceing the public that the politions are wrong, and thus either voting new ones in or altering the views of the old ones so they wont have to leave. and yes, i do realise that these are not fully devoped ideas, but im in a rush, so sorry i couldnt elaborate 021212 ... ??????? You're right, Screwing. Seer, though, suggests above that Bush, by politely dismissing the protesters, is ignoring the voice of the people. He was suggesting that 10 thousand protesters = popular mandate to change public policy. No president should ignore protesters, but they shouldn't allow them to create policy, either. 021212 ... minnesota_chris I've always disliked the staged, restricted protests. I've always thought, protest his bedroom. Find out where his kids go to daycare, and protest there. Protest his mom. 021212 ... p2 i protest against these types of protests 021213 ... chage protest is too often listless youths seeking subtantive existance throwing themselves into the cause without true contemplation of themselves or what they are fighting for true protest involves people with their entire soul invested in their cause, a collective conciousness angry love storm 021213 ... p2 precisely why i protest against these protests and fyi i don't consider myself a youth i am actually quite full of lists and i care nothing for subtantive existances 021213 ... minnesota_chris hey. . . here's a revolution that I would join! p2. . . please explain. Your drives, and why you spurn these phony existances. You sound kinda buddhist. 021213 ... p2 the way to protest against protests is to not go a protest is to get attention pay it no attention and you have won my lack of drive is my drive a subtantive existance? why bother? what's the point? and more importantly what's on tv? in other words i'm lazy as guru bart simpson says "underachiever, and proud of it, man!" 021213 ... p2 for every yin there is a yang you could go the opposite direction douse them in kerosene and light them up and you have also won what have you won? free room and board at the local prison oh, and don't forget the daily anal rape included with the package 021213 ... [.:..The SeeR ..:.] electorates shmelectorates! The President is supposed to be a representative of the PEOPLE! WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT WAR! I don't, anyway... nobody I've talked to out there does either. DO YOU? WHO_WANTS_A_WAR_WITH_IRAQ? I say we put all war declarations to a vote anyway. There is always another alternative than dropping explosives on people... I can't even determine how anyone reached that conclusion and said, "What a great Idea!" Now our military is being forced to vaccinate for small_pox? This is just another chapter in the big book of bush's bullshit. 021213 ... Strideo I wouldn't be opposed to it. should i start building a list of all the horrible crap that Saddam has done and is still up to? and yet we all just sit around throw all of our criticism at the president. Yes, i know there are all sorts of evil dictators out there and we can't stop them. maybe we shouldn't, but I wouldn't mind seeing one less out there. . 021213 ... [.:..The SeeR ..:.] Yes, Compile this list, please. And then explain how you know it's the truth, and not just the story given to the media (and the AP (Associated Press), which is controlled by the governemnt)to justify more blood for oil conflicts. We are the Big Boys in the UN security council. Therefore, we have the utmost responsibility to conduct ourselves in a way that sets a good example for all growing nations. If we were not a part of the UN, then it wouldn't matter (as much) who we "Regime Changed". But since we are, we cannot act alone in this... And if the ENTIRE UNITED WORLD is against us attacking Iraq, then we should listen. If we have PROOF that Iraq is building Weapons_of_Mass_Destruction then disclose it! I don't believe we have proof... All it would take would be to disclose the "proof" and the US would most likely have unanimous support worldwide. Why would they NOT disclose it? 021213 ... Strideo nonsense! the UN has no love of the United States. They haven't even taken any action against Iraq when they violated its resolutions. the UN is not doing the United States any favors here. If they were someone stronger than Hans Blix would be out there on the ground. Don't forget there are 4 other permanent seats in the security council. . 021213 ... Strideo On Saddam Hussein lets see. . . Eco terrorism.. . can anyone deny that Saddam ordered hundreds of oil wells set on fire towords the end of the gulf war? he has also been draining the marshlands near the Shatt-al-Arab channel in southern Iraq. Why? Because the marshes were a haven for ethnic Persian shiite muslems that opposed Saddam's rule. so Saddam just destroys a unique ecosystem just to oppress a gruop of people. Ilegal use of chemical weapons. . . on Iraqi people! Saddam didn't just use chemical weapons on the Iranians in the 80's he used mustard gas on Kurdish Iraqis in northern Iraq. Thousands of Kurdish refugees arrived in Turky with chemical burns and blisters. Denied aid to his own people. . . then blamed UN sanctions. Of the billions of dollars worth of revenue Iraq has earn through the UN sanctioned oil for food program only about half has been spent at all, withholding the rest of the money while hundreds of thousands starve. Saddam withholds supplies from his enemies such as the Kurds and the Shiites then complains to the international community about how the "evil" west is starving his population. lets see some smaller stuff (less genocidal in scope). he had two of his son-in-laws killed after they went to Syria and talked about Iraqi military secretes. (he told them no harm would come to them if they came back home, then had them shot) an assasination plot on ex-president Bush in 1993 (including two remote controlled car bombs and one suicide bomber) Kuwaiti police arrested 14 suspects involved in the incident oh wait! am I forgetting something? Oh yeah! He invaded Kuwait in 1990! I'd have to look around but there is tons more. the man is nothing but a criminal. anyone can try to explain why the above is not true in their own words, but please don't just claim "government conspiracy" the government does NOT controll the media! . 021213 ... ??????? "If we have PROOF that Iraq is building Weapons_of_Mass_Destruction then disclose it! I don't believe we have proof..." You don't believe that we have proof. And this is based on what? Intuition? Your political ideology is so distorted that it's hard to know where to begin. First, war protests do not represent a popular mandate, and it doesn't matter how many people agree with you on FearBush.com, Seer, because they are biased. In other words, you can't judge "the will of the people" by perusing Bush-bashing sites, because you're only going to find what you're looking for: fringe political views expressed by a vocal minority. You can't seem to understand that the people you've met (who evidently hate the Bush Administration) are going to agree with you, but they aren't a representative sample of the United States electorate. Your method of statistical analysis by way of assessing your own personal experience is beyond stupid. 021213 ... [.:..The SeeR ..:.] I love you Question Marx!!! You're my best friend! Your loyalty is so flattering... And your words bring joy to my heart. I am the_Luckiest_Blatherskite to have a fan such as you! XOXOXOXOXOXOXO Thank You! Thank You!!! Thank You!! .:..Blissfully Sighs..:. 021214 ... ??????? Blissfully sighs? XOXOX? Aren't you supposed to be a guy, Seer? Anyway, you didn't address the substance of my criticism, which is understandable but not excusable. If you want to pretend to be important, then you should at least be able to defend yourself. 021215 ... SuicidalAngel I think having a war would be the most fucked up thing we could do. I'm so sick of "America" trying to run other countries, as if we're better than eveyone else. It makes me want to move to Canada. What the hell is war going to do? It's like we're 5 years old. "How many more of your people can I kill weeee" I can understand stopping whatever they're thinking of doing to us, but we really have to think of something else other than war, to fix the issues that are taking place. Of all the people I know, I'd say maybe 2 of them support the war. 021215 ... bling bling Why would he need to defend himself against a raving psychopath? Seriously, all you do is follow him around and attack everything he says. Your personal vendetta is founded on what? What did Seer do that deserves your constant harassment? I ask these questions in vain, knowing that you will not answer them, nor the ones to follow. You're so full of anger and hate its pathetic. And why? Are you doing anything right that makes you important? Do you feel good now? Several people have tried reasoning with you, but you dodge their questions and return insults instead of answers. Now, everbody knows that's exactly how children behave, which is fine if you don't then try to pretend you're an authority on every matter that comes up, and call everyone else "high school"! You have much to learn about the communication process. You don't have any substance to your criticisms because you only spout derogatory attacks. Everyone sees that. If you want attention, you attention whore, there are better ways to go about it. I know this won't do any good, because of your gross immaturity this bit of advice won't sink into your thick, hate-filled skull, but hey, at least it's worth a shot. Just know this '???????': When you are old and bitter, you will surely die alone. Think you can change that? 021215 ... ??????? Ha ha, "bling bling". Who are you? I guess you're just another one of those Mysterious Seer Supporters. Why do you think I'm bitter and angry? Sounds like you're the bitter and angry one (or whatever). I hope you're just another one of The Seer's screen names... the alternative would be pretty sad. 021216 ... ??????? SuicidalAngel, Your own experience notwithstanding, a lot of people do support the war (not as many as just a few months ago, but still). I think people are sometimes misled by thinking that the individuals with whom they speak accurately represent American sentiment. Anyway, I think you take an unfairly unamerican stance when you characterize the entire American government as imperialistic or childish or otherwise evil. We probably shouldn't think of the opposition as pure evil, either, but to think of the US as pure evil is, at least in the utilitarian sense, worse (since you're an American). You don't have to agree with any war, and advocating the use of diplomacy before force makes sense, but denigrating the entire US government and military is a little unreasonable, in my opinion. 021216 ... Strideo SuicidalAngel, Canada doesn't have to fight wars or stick their neck out politically because they know the United States will allways be there to defend the North American Contenant. Generally I have nothing against Canada and I'm not here to discuss US vs. Canada sentiments. I just don't like hearing "oh, my country is just too evil because it might actually go to war. I'm going to Canada cuz its sooo much better." Is it just me or does no one even care about all the evil stuff Saddam did? How could you criticize our political posturing so much and not even batt an eye or say a word when Saddam uses mustard gas on civillians. . 021216 ... screwing for virginity i have not found person who would argue if you sadam was an evil man, or at least insane. but the question is: does that give us the right to attack him and try to get him out of power? if yes, then what about the next leader who acts in grosly imoral ways? or the next guy who is unfair to his people. or then anyone who we just dont like. is sadam an evil man? i say yes. should he be removed from power? probably. but is it our right to remove him? i really dont think so. 021216 ... Strideo of course, too late now right? maybe we just missed our chance. . maybe it really isn't our role. I wouldn't mind if we went after him, but saying I would rather be a Canadian? come on . . . . 021216 ... SuicidalAngel I don't care - I disagree. I'm really not going to just move to Canada, and I realze if I did, it wouldn't matter anyway. Did I really catagorize the WHOLE American public? Not at all. I said "I know two people" that support the war, and thats the truth. I never said "evil" either. Retarded might be a better word. It's my opinion, thats all. 021216 ... minnesota_chris The Canadians would kick Saddam's butt if they had to. We're going to kick his butt simply because he's there, and we have the power. 021216 ... SuicidalAngel It was more or less my anti-war protest 021216 ... Strideo "What the hell is war going to do? It's like we're 5 years old. "How many more of your people can I kill weeee" I can understand stopping whatever they're thinking of doing to us, but we really have to think of something else other than war, to fix the issues that are taking place." but really! you don't honestly think it has anything to do with how many people we can kill do you? I would say we spend an extraordanary amount of money and technical know how just to minimize collateral damage so we don't kill tons of people. . 021216 ... SuicidalAngel so why do we send a bunch of people somewhere to shoot other people?! That is what I'm refering to. I find it rediculus. (sp?) 021216 ... [.:..The SeeR ..:.] How many Bombs did we drop on Afghanistan recently? How many schools and hospitals have we bombed overseas? How many Panamanians were killed when Manuel Noriega disobeyed our government's orders? How many cambodians were killed by US bombs? How many South Koreans have been killed by US bombs? What about the Vietnemese? Chinese? Libians? Russians? Lebanese? Iraqis? Anyway. Don't pretend for even one second that the US Military/Government/Corporate conglomerate's aim is to conserve lives. Most of the Afghani citizens we killed with massive explosives last year had never even Heard of the United States before, let alone knew what was going on when the "psych-ops" efforts began with loudspeakers telling them their "evil rulers" were no more. Oh yeah, and let's not forget... We DROPPED AN ATOMIC BOMB ON THE JAPANESE! TWICE!!!!! You think the majority of Americans want more war? Only the undereducated. Those 10,000 protesters may have been only a small sample of our population, but they were the only one's with the balls enough to stand up for what's right while the rest of us are too busy watching "real life" on television. You think the average students are aware that it's the oil companies who are causing most of the damage to this planet? Of course not. Do you think the average student knows who J-Lo is dating now? You better believe it. Am I the only one who sees a MAJOR problem with this situation? I glad to say, "No!" Many people know that our government's two-faced agenda has more planned than "stabilizing potential Iraqi threats". And what are we doing about it? Sitting around stimulating our alter-egos while pretending to be authorities on subjects where we know only what we've been sold by our news media. I strongly encourage you to pick up a newspaper and read it! Research our history from a foreign perspective. Visit non-US controlled news agencies. Then and only then will you have a sliver of the information you'll need in order to arm yourself adequately enough to further this useless discussion. Ohp! Gotta go! My favorite re-runs of "Ignorance and Redundancy" are on! 021216 ... Strideo are we dicussing World War II now? I didn't know we were dicussing US policy of the 40's. oh yes. i'm sure we were just aiming for schools, churches, and hospitals during all of our recent military campaigns. Are you saying that whenever our country is attacked we shouldn't do anything? and what is this great education you speak of? what makes you so sure you know all the answers? you haven't given any examples of how the media is supposedly controlled by the government. the media hasn't exactly been flatering to the current administraition anyway. basically anyone who dissagrees with you is "ignorant" how can you create a convencing argument by just pulling the "you are ignorant" card and running away. at least I can supply solid evedance to support my point. smart guided weapons really do exist. I've actually given examples of what saddam is doing wrong. do you allways try to win a debate by simply claiming that your superior knowlege will win and then not use any of your amazing skill, and say "this is silly and below me" then bail out? I really don't see any logic to your arguement, just emotion . . 021216 ... [.:..The SeeR ..:.] Well, I am sorry you misunderstood me. I wasn't calling you ignorant. I thought I'd distributed plenty of factual data to back up my emotional discharge. Let me scroll back up... yep still there! And, we are talking about war... and more specifically... ANTI_WAR_PROTESTS, including WWII, or any situation in which large explosives are used to murder people. This really happens, whether or not you think I need to display facts about it. Large explosives are used by the US to murder tens of thousands of people! If you would like, I could post facts about it. I thought about doing that before, but I figured that would be insulting your intelligence, because you know as well as I do that we drop bombs on people. Even laser guided ones and ones that "accidentally" destroy churches, schools, hospitals, ... people's homes. The result of all of this? Innocent Children Die because of US BOMBS. The gross ignorance is not you, or any one person. It's the tolerant attitude that acknowledges the murder of other people as acceptable behavior! That's ignorance. I am not trying to put you on the defensive. I am proactively hoping to reach a mutually beneficial agreement with you that enables us both to learn from one another. I know, I truly know that there are other solutions to reach besides murdering people. I don't think I am above you... You're probably way smarter than I am. I DO, however, think that the United States of America is above this sort of behavior... it's so primative and unecessary. I don't use logic to determine this, I use empathy and compassion. I put myself in the shoes of an Iraqi citizen going about her daily life. Suddenly there are reports that a country on the other side of the world doesn't like my president, and they are going to invade my city and drop bombs on my country... and I will likely die in pain, or at least know someone who will die in pain... That doesn't seem right to me, and therefore I am against it. 021217 ... neutral 3rd party !!!!!!! S T O P !!!!!!! I'm not sure about yall, but all this argueing is getting out of hand. Everybody take a deep breath, count to ten, and list your opinions on everything as nicley and calmly as you can. Thank you, I think this will make it more smooth and less hostile. 021217 ... SuicidalAngel exactly 021217 ... [... The Seer ...] Wow, How things change... I just read what I wrote... and I agree with much of it still... Yet, Guess who I voted for last tuesday? Bush! And he won! YAY! 041109 ... 114 osama_gives_Bush_4_more_years_to_'bankrupt_America, with proof... 041109 ... Why Not Show one And_I_will_tell_you_how_wonder_you_are... 041109 ... U.S. * What's_Reality * Mental_Health 041109 ... [... The Seer ...] You know what's funny... And I assure you this is the absolute truth... I am now a conservative republican and I even VOTED for bush in the last election!! It's been years since I've read these old things that I wrote. Hateful, angry things about Bush and his administration. I am seriously thinking about writing a BOOK called: "How I went from a 100% Liberal Democrat to a Conservative Republican in about 2 years!" It just seems like something both sides would find interesting. I truly think that society "promotes" the leftist's viewpoint and doesn't give students the chance to objectively view the right's perspective. Once I got out of college and started to try to understand things from an unbiased viewpoint,I really saw that being a liberal was NOT the most "ethical, intelligent,fair and high-minded" set of political perspectives, as I had once believed. I even started to look at Bush differently, and, as unpopular as this is going to sound, I think he has done a good job of doing what's BEST for our nation. We don't know what he knows, and if we did, there's no guarantee that we would do anything differently than he has done. Sure, he's made some mistakes. Humans do often. He's learned from them. It's just funny... if the 2007 me were to tell the "me from 2002" that I would actually become a Bush supporter and even vote FOR him in the next election, I'm quite certain I would have punched "2007 me" in the face for being so stupid. Life is interesting, no doubt about it. 070804 ... falling_alone they told me to wear orange. actually they handed out thousands of fliers that said that. i don't own any orange, and they just killed hundreds of trees. i don't want to buy orange. 070804 what's it to you? who go blather from