daf When someone speaks and says something that we have grown to disdain or look down upon, we really have two choices:

We can assume the role of superiority and block out the message for its "worthlessness", or we can assume the role of student, and listen. Regardless of whether or not what the person is speaking of is absurd, there is something to be learned from every encounter, even the repetitious ones.

I won't go into the various incredible and unbelieveable events that have led up to this point. You probably wouldn't find them credible, nor would you likely believe them. That's fine.

Instead I'll try to cut to the chase as quickly as this rambling preamble will let me.

The majority of the New Testament is a farce. It was for this reason that the Book of Revelation was so cryptic: to avoid being distorted and rewritten by liars. They couldn't understand what it said, so they assumed that noone else would either, and they left it alone for the most part.

That's one of the places where they screwed up. By they, I mean Paul, Luke and John Mark also known as Mark. They weren't folowers of Christ, but of a very secretive cult that worshipped the god Mithras. This cult is the basis of most if not all current Christian denominations. People that go to their graves as Christians, in fact, go to their graves worshipping the antichrist, Mithras.


What you see above is the solution to the meaning of 666. If you add those numbers normally (ie 0123+456+78+9) you will get 666. They are the 10 digits in their natural order, added together. (They also represents, on MANY levels evolution from perfect potential unrealized to the realization of that potential.)

If that is not conclusive enough, you are invited to add those numbers horizontally, using standard numerological reduction. This means that you add the digits together. If the sum is a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,11 or 22, you stop, otherwise you add the digits of the sum. In this case you will add: 0+1+2+3=6 and 4+5+6=15=1+5=6 and 7+8=15=1+5=6 and you will have a 9 left over. 666 9

The first equation is the number of the beast. The second is the number of a man. They are NOT one and the same thing.

In fact, the beast is not a man at all, but a system supported by the "antichrist" or western culture, which is the so called "Christian" culture.

The man? Well I'll save the identity of the man for later, because his identity is not a secret either. Let's just put it this way, he's one of many heroes in our little story.

You will find a comprehensive archeological study(non-denominational, and without any religious rhetoric) on the cult of Mithras here:

In it you will find a description of the typical Mithran temple: High vaulted ceiling reminiscent of a cave. Aisle down the center with benches on either side, terminating in an altar, with the image of Mithras behind it. Although this may seem a normal layout to us because of our familiarity with "Christian" places of worship, in fact this is not normal at all, but by design which was promoted by the papacy. Rome, you see, had the highest concentration of Mithraic cults.

The image of Mithras was always accompanied by a several symbols:

There was a bull that was sacrificed, with lots of blood. Blood was extremely important in Mithraic rituals. There were constellations represented in the form of animals: the dog, snake, raven, the bull and a scorpion. Mithras was in the center of these. You will find a detailed explanation of what the cross means at the above site. It will prove very interesting reading once you learn what "the Lamb" of god is.

Additionally, Mithras had a unique feature that has baffled arhceologists for years:

He was distinct and separate from the Sun god, but was one with the Sun god as well. He was also put first before the Sun god in the hearts of worshippers.

You will find some less objective information here:

None of this has to do with my introduction to a cult, or to religion. All of this has to do with a story I posted called What The Hands of Man Hath Wrought. You will find that story here:

The cult's priests would sacrifice calves and bulls to Mithras, then drink the blood of the animal, eat its flesh and/or bathe in its blood as a way of cleansing themselves of sin.
Bloody sacrifice was a central theme to Mithraic salvation credo. Members of the poorer classes, who were unable to afford flesh or blood, would substitute bread and wine, in a symbolic show of allegiance and faith to Mithras, in an attempt to gain everlasting life.

The festival of Mithras was celebrated on the 25th of December, the winter solstice. (see also the points of intersection of the cross.)

His day of worship was not Sabado (Saturday in Spanish), the Sabbath Day, but was Sun-Day, day of the Sun god.

The egg was an important Mithraic symbol as well. Mithras was often shown exiting an egg-shaped rock which had a snake wrapped around it. The inside ceiling of his temple supposedly reflected the inside of this egg. Not coincidentally, ask any kid what Easter is all about and the Resurrection or Rebirth of Christ might come up, but more likely isthe mention of the Easter Bunny, candy and EGGS. This occurs, not coincidentally, on the first Sun-day after the Spring Solstice (which is ANOTHER point of intersection on the cross.)

The Bible itself offers some very damaging clues to the identity of the conspirators:

(Acts 13:9) Identifies Paul as Saul of Tarsus, a notorious hater of Jesus and his followers.

(Acts 9:26) Mentions that Saul (after his supposed visit by the Holy Spirit) approaches the disciples of Christ and is rejected by them They are afraid of him and don't believe that he is one of them.

Mark is a disciple of Paul. He went with him on his first mission. He is the author of the first of the four gospels(stories of Jesus' life), which is the foundation for both the gospel according to Luke, and according the gospel according to Matthew.

The only gospel which was not based on Mark's gospel was the book of John. It has been heavily tainted wth distortions and fabrications. One interesting oversight in the deception was the lack of any mention of the communion (drinking of Christ's blood or eating of His flesh.) At the same chronological point in the gospel according to John, we find Jesus dipping bread into wine and saying that whoever takes that bread with wine is his betrayer. He then gives it to Judas. (John 13:26)

Luke was the only Gentile author in the New Testament, a Greek doctor and very close friend and companion of Paul's. Niether he, Paul, nor John Mark were disciples of Jesus. Neither Luke, nor Mark ever met Jesus during their or his lifetime. Yet they casually write about the events of his life in their gospels, which all "good Christians" take as fact.

Of the 27 books of the New Testament, 14 were written by Paul, 2 were written by Luke, and one was written by John Mark. The book of Hebrews is attributed to either Paul or Luke, scholars disagree as to which. That's 18 out of 27 books. The other books have almost all been tainted, further investigation will reveal to what extent and where.

There is a LOT more to this story gentlemen, but I'll save that for another time.

I hope you folks understand that regardless of my own personal religious convictions, it has never been my intent to try to convince anyone of anything, or convert anyone to anything.

I simply cannot stand people making decisions based on a lie. I wouldn't sell a bean burrito to a vegetarian if I knew it was made with animal lard; that would be wrong.

The same thing, I believe applies here. People are being lied to, quite probably by people who have been lied to.

Who knows how far up the lie goes and whether or not ANY of the priesthood is aware of what it is that they are doing.

What is obvious is that faced with denial or the reality that they had taught thousands and thousands of individuals to worship Satan, or a pagan god; that they had baptized thousands of babies in the name of that god, and that they had watched thousands of people go to their graves worshipping that god, most of them will choose denial.

The mental shock would likely be too great, the indoctrination and habits of a lifetime, too strong to give up for something as flimsy as evidence.

to be continued...
daf "In Persia where he was the messenger of Ahura Mazda, the god of light, he appeared in the sky at dawn and then crossed the firmament in a chariot drawn by four white horses (Sky has always been considered the right place for the 'supreme beings'). As a mediator between the worlds of light and darkness, as humanity's ally in the struggle against evil and as the soul's guide in its ascent to the eternal life, Mithras was soon identified as the redeemer prophesied by Zarathustra, as the sun-god who would appear as a human being at the end of time. He finally became the supreme godhead and started his triumphal progress across the Graeco-Roman world concurrently with the Buddhist saviour Maitreya in the East. On the border where Islamic Kashmir meets Buddhist Ladakh there is a village - Mulbek. Near that village there is a bas-relief sculpture of Maitreya, the saviour of the Buddhists whose future coming was promised by Sakyamuni chiselled into the vertical wall of the rock. The name Maitreya is related to the Aramaic meshia (Messiah) who the Jews continue to hope for as their Saviour. Both Maitreya and meshia/messiah are expected to come in the future to save the mankind and establish the 'divine' rule. Both words - Maitreya and Mithra - are etymologically related, Maitreya means 'friendly, loving' and is derived from maitri the Sanskrit form of Mithras. But that is not all! Used as a personal name

Maitreya even means 'Son of Mithra.' Like Maitreya, Mithras is said to be waiting in heaven for the end of time, when he will descend to earth. According to legend, the redeemer will be born of a virgin, a goddess, thrusting through animal skin to the light of day. His birth will be watched by shepherds, who will worship the newly born (He will be born of a virgin.. His birth will be watched by the shepherds.. Shepherds will worship him..) His earthly mission culminates in his victory over the bull...

.From the body of the dying bull grow corn (bread) and grapes (wine) until Mithras finally mounts to heaven in the sun-chariot and is enthroned by the God of light as ruler of the world who would return to earth to awaken the dead and pass judgement. (Mounts to heaven..Enthroned as god.. He will return to earth to awaken the dead and pass judgement.."
- from the entry for Mithra at

(again, a not necessarily objective, but not completely UNobjective site.)
From its author:

"(While reading the following three books leave your feelings aside and try to extract the facts as much as you can)

Old Testament

New Testament

- Spenta Mainyu
stork daddy the way the practices developed has nothing to do with the symbolic or comforting value they currently have. unless you really believe in a god named mithril or whatever, people aren't really worshipping it just by observing rituals that may have once been aimed at worshipping it. that's the thing with symbolic rituals, if you forget the symbolism of them, you're left to reconstruct it. if it was misconstrued from the beginning then you've never really been secretly strengthening the beliefs framing the original symbolism behind the rituals because you've always been operating under the current beliefs. and if it's really mithras who said that the meek should inherit the earth and to love your neighbor and father why have you forsaken me and whatnot, then who cares, just change the names. and even if your "evidence" is true, that doesn't mean that all of the theology and lives dedicated to christianity throughout the history of western and world civilization are in vain. after all, the message of christ, even through the distorted bible, has merit. if the followers really were set out on reliving this cult, with the sun god, and not the son of god, as their head honcho, why add and change the meaning of the rituals and the main emphasis of the teachings when that is really all religion amounts to. you and i could both kill a calf or a lamb, as many religions do, and interpret it entirely differently. symbolism tends to take on a life of its own, and there is an evolution to thoughts. perhaps the old rituals were just the best way for these followers of christ to frame their new belief in jesus. we don't really know their intentions just because of their past as sure as you sound of the matter. i know this is your key point in declaring the western viewpoint evil and insufficient, but really it isn't so clear what really happened, as is the case with most ancient texts. what is clear is that lots of thinking has been devoted to the subject of jesus and god and christian theology that can't really be reduced to secretly being about mithras. you say that jesus was real but his church is false, but where are you getting your info on jesus from if not from his followers? that was always my problem with the bible's infallibility, it was written by people years later with all of the shenanigans that usually brings with it. also you act as if the concept of sacrifice belonged solely to this group of "pagans" when in actuality the old testament is probably three to four times as blood soaked. not only that, i remember distinctly the story where abraham was asked to kill his own son. that sounds more creepy and occult to me. my point here is that faith is personal. you're right that the majority of christians go through rote symbolic actions never really stopping to understand them, but so unfortunately do the majority of hindus, muslims, buddhists, and mithras worshippers. this does not mean that every experience of christian faith is based on a lie. there are plenty of messages in the new testament which are worthy of forming a lifestyle around, and whether or not you take every ritual with it is debatable and has been the subject of schism after schism, but in various incarnations, people have been drawn to the message of jesus, however that message gets to them. the real problem with christianity is that it's never been truly practiced right? and i know you probably feel this is because the church (but which one?) has and always will be secretly keeping the rituals of mithras right and shielding and appropriating jesus' message for their dark occult plans. on the flipside, maybe it's only watered down christianity that people are willing to accept. maybe you got it wrong, and the people are oppressing themselves. either way, your story amounts to pretty much the same as any interpretation of old texts, heresay. what matters is what we make of it now. you can put your faith in the words of the bible without putting your faith in the bible. getting weirder and weirder everyday daf. 031114
stork daddy and some thoughts on numbers. we make numbers to help us better understand the world. these numbers are the human mind, not the world. assigning something a number means we view it a certain way, not that it becomes automatically that way. sometimes we number it well, sometimes we don't. but it doesn't really matter if i'm born 6/6/6666 it's not going to make me evil. of course this is another place we difer in opinion, and really it's hard to argue religion, since it's just a different language game than the things we can say for certain. of course, you don't think it's a religion. 031114
DannyH I like the bit where you have the 9 left over. That's the funniest bit. You should write more of these parodies Daf. 031114
stork daddy also see kids_in_the_hall 031114
stork daddy when i used to watch andy kaufman...i used to think, how could they fall for such obvious putons...but he was so good at blurring the lines. but how could this be anything but a puton? 031114
daf 9 is the number of God DannyH. This is a well known piece of information among astrologers, cabbalists and numerologists. A little research would certainly aid you in sneering more effectively. In the example above, I mention that one of the numbers represents the beast and the other represents a man, who is one of the many heroes in this story. So, based upon your newfound knowledge of the significance of the number 9 through history...which one do you think 6669 refers to?

As for where Jesus' original teachings come from, try a comparison of ALL such messages and you'll find it. I believe I covered that in another blather called the_path.

Jesus' teachings are preserved in the Quran, as one example. In the Bible, his words need only be read and compared against his deeds, to learn the actual tone of the Message of which he was possessed. Ask any Muslim. They will tell you. Muslims know, as do the Sufi and a few other groups, that God has had many messengers. The Quran (Koran) specifically mentions 25 Messengers of His Truth by name:

Adam, Idriss, Noah, Hood, Salih, Ibrahim, Lout, Ismail, Lishaq, Yacoob, Yusuf, Shu'aib, Ayub, Zulkifl, Musa, Haroon, Dawood, Sulaiman, Ilyass, Yunus, Zakaria, Yahia, Isa, and Muhammad. (If you need those translated they are widely available on the internet.)

In addition, the Quran states that he has sent THOUSANDS of messengers over the course of human history, but each time, the message has been distorted and subverted. It's for this reason that all folks that would follow Islam are supposed to learn Arabic. Not to give preference to the Arabic language, but to keep the words in the original context and preserve the original meaning, so that translators do not have the opportunity to inject their own believes through preferencial transliteration.

My purpose isn't to give preference to Islam over some other path. In fact, if you had read the_path, you would know that nothing could be farther from my intent.

However, to have people worshipping in the name of a MAN over the name of God, because they have been taught that this man IS God, is absolutely against the teachings of all of these messengers.

This blather started with a preamble. You may choose to ignore that and continue under the assumption that you are going to make points that hadn't occurred to me before. You may well be able to do so. Up to this point, you haven't.

If you believe that the Truth will be served better by the logical deductions of one ego against another, rather than by a study of the available information, then you will do what you will do and nothing, but you will stop you.

You may choose to disregard this information (which you appear to have done already) based on nothing, or you may investigate for yourself and bring something useful to the table.

You will notice in that piece (the_path) that I mention Buddha. I believe that Buddha was one of these "messengers of God."

The Sufi have another name for God which means simply...the Truth.

At this point there are only two opinions expressed which display bias. Mine is not one of them. This opinion is based on research, by myself and many many others.

I realize that attempting a Socratic dissection of the individual points is a much easier thing to do than to just go out and investigate for yourself.

By all means, take the easy way, if it appeals to you, but please don't try to pass that off as the reasonable course of action. You're both better than that and you know it.

If you would like to expand this discussion to a blather of almost undownloadable proportions in order to make the information that's been put here unavailable to others, I would respectfully ask that you debate me on the subject somewhere else.

Thanks in advance.
Lemon_Soda Anything written by man, any man, is subjective. 031114
daf Agreed. But the heart in touch with Truth knows it when it reads it. This is absolute knowledge. We mustn't assume, but investigate and research. Our heart will pull the Truth from the ashes of human deception and subjectivity. 031114
stork daddy yes...the old arguing against me by debating against what i said is illogical trick always works. the reason christianity was important is because god was made another religion where gods became men all the times this wasn't such a philosophical departure but with the absolute god of the jews it was quite a development, and to some would represent a direct connection between the temporal and atemporal, the finite and infinite, a meeting place, a node by which to enter. i'm not a devout christian by any means, but i do not approve of your calling your way the truth when really it amounts to more conjecture than half of the views you attack for being conjectured. it's okay for you to attack arguments in a socratic fashion, but not others? i really like how you would have me believe that humanity was knocked off the one true holy path by a bunch of bull sacrificers in caves. it's this evil shadow group who has beguiled the rest of us? the religion which is winning and is secretly doing the most damage is nihilism and hatred and it is preached by christians and muslims and atheists alike. so you can go on about your numbers and your nonsense all day long, but really don't act like your position and a fool's are mutually exclusive. i have looked into a good majority of the fluff you've recommended and it is on this that i base my wonder at your interpretations. and to compare buddha to a messenger of god is to miss the point of buddhism completely or to subvert it into some cute metaphor for your view of how things are. buddhism teaches nirvana. yes sufism teaches unity and other concepts which appear to have definitions as well as neurological effects in common with enlightenment and meditation but to say that at their end all spiritual paths are the same is to miss what each offers. you make these ridiculous blathes where you state, you're going to think this is a bunch of nonsense because it goes against your deep ingrained false teachings. then you spout nonsense. you go on to say...see i told you you'd think it's nonsense could argue with me or you could accept my position as the one true truth. look i like to learn...but you make unequivocal statements...this isn't the role of a learner. you take the role of a preacher. you don't state hey...what if this...i've been looking into make statements like...."they've gone to their graves worshipping this false god." and then you don't answer the criticisms because they actually look at the details of what you're saying instead of just agreeing with your conclusion. you use the rhetorical devices of a cult leader and you wonder why people are uneasy talking with you. fundamentalism of any kind disturbs me, because fundamentalists look at other people's beliefs as problems whether or not they actually constitute problems. it's like those bastards who want me to vote for larouche or read the book of dianetics. and really, they have their rhetorical sparkles as well, their moments of grandeur. and when i actually read that stuff...all i'm thinking is...i just wasted time i could've used to read kierkegaard. 031114
Dafremen What is my way? This should prove interesting, since it hasn't been stated anywhere except perhaps in a blathe called the_path.

Go on stork daddy, tell them.

(You realize that for as long as I respond to you, I am broken, right? Ego drives the flesh as surely as desire.)
HellBentWolf There is such a thing as not wanting that information. It's to him because of his hatred of Jesus, therefore whether you believe or not, I for one choose not to believe and/or follow. If it must come down to making up my own rhetoric as I go along... so be it.

What I'm saying is that I don't think it is a sin and I reject Christ. If that means my eternal death... I must say, I am really not so afraid of it.

I want no part of it, EVER.
z cult? 040328
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andru235 any research into numerology reveals quickly that there are many, and many that have existed for long periods of time. like religions, there is no one true 'numerology'.

i have learned that this point i must teach, so that i may continue to learn. there! i tied this into mithras. yahoo!
chalk it up to mystery? sCrawLed upon thE wall waS this : " 616 "

bEwarE, said tHE old vagabond RightEously
what's it to you?
who go