typhoid misspelling of subgenus. 000623
tourist Written that way by a subgenius.
Appeared int three words :
Did the slave scream subgenius?
misstree Hail Bob. 001216
typhoid thatz
praise "Bob"
and i stand by my first statement
misstree I'll stand by Hail "Bob," as I pass him and all the others on this tripped out path... too busy hopping on one foot with Eris to spend much time Praising anyone.
Though, I guess I do have to give Mister Dobbiedobbs some props; though it's not quite my cup of tea, it is a damn wicked brew, and it sits right next to my blend on the shelves of the Big Supermarket in the Sky. That, and subgenii are infinitely more organized that discordians tend to be... you'll never hear an erisian radio show... can't imagine why... :P
Teenage Jesus So. A Discordian eh? WHo wrote that Principia Discordia? Was it Malaclypse the Younger? Is that really Kerry Thornley? Is he in any wasy involved? Am I just mixing up R.A.W. "facts?"

And don't you think the Illuminatus Trilogy would make a great movie? I've read it. (Five times, of course.) RAW's Cosmic Trigger series is also an excellent piece of work.
oldephebe i am so out of the loop on this one 030807
misstree Well, who wrote the principia depends on what perspective you take. There are a lot of delusional realists out there who would say it was Kerry Thornley, and someone else whose name escapes me. Personally, I believe it was Malaclypse's pineal gland. Kerry Thornley was, again from a realist perspective, definitely invoved, if i recall correctly he's interviewed at the end of the re-release by Peter Jackson Games (*spit*). RAW's "facts" on the matter are actually relatively accurate... his relationship to discordianism is muddled, and i'm not sure if he's discordian himself, but i do know that he's a chaote (chaos magic practitioner), and the two tend to have a lot of overlap. Personally, I see it as dogma and mechanics, separate and distinct.

I dunno about the movie... if someone who had the balls to do it right, not try to pander, and was willing to make a 5 hour movie did it, then hells fucking yes. There would be some great scenes, they could get someone really good to play Hagbard and go off on the preach, and the animation of the sub and atlantis and Leviathan would be cool as shite. :) Though it's got a cult following like crazy, though, I don't think the mass market would really get it--the matrix was kind of like the babystep version of existentialism and some of the theories in chaos magic, and that's got enough pretty things and fighting that people can go along with it.

Haven't read cosmic trigger, though it's on my "get this book, you idiot" list. I've owned and given away 3 copies of Quantum Psychology, which is really really thick at first, but absolutely incredible. Okay, so I take back the absolutely... there is very little that is "absolute" in that book... even the word "is" comes under heavy fire, and with good reason. It basically talks about the uncertainty theories behind quatum physics, and how that is making us take a long hard look at how we deine/describe "reality", and how this relates to our "mind" and thinking patterns and such, and how these both tie in to the interaction between self and everything else.

In certain ways I'm underexposed to the Church of "Bob," never seen much of their writings as I'm a dirt-poor discordian ("i used to just be a dirty hippie... now i'm a discordian!"), but they have Stang's Hour of Slack every thursday night on the local radio.

and oldephobe, don't worry much about being out of the loop; it's pretty esoteric stuff... if you want to figure out what the hell all this stuff is, the Prinicipia Discordia and lots of other good stuff on disccordianism is at, and the Hour of Slack is on the subgenius site, and robert anton wilson's got very extensive writings on his site. sorry i don't have exact addresses, i'm at work and can't hit any search engines. :P
Teenage Jesus Well that's a lot of info. We're very much on the same page with regard to our perception/creation of reality. There are many fine straight science books that aren't "too much." Einstein's Moon is quite readable; I'm sure there are many.

Regardless, of the differences between discordians and subgenii, I think approach is the main one. For instance, discordians seem very prepared with ideas, positions, citations, and references. Subgenii on the other hand (at least old ones like me) tend to fall back on enlightened inspiration (read: bullshit.) {{btw- this is insider type stuff, so don't tell anybody.}} It's the inherent Taoist laziness that appeals to me. And it all REALLY does work.

Plus, you can mix and match philosophies at will without the need to worry about supposed contridictions. That's the way the universe works right? Which thermal dynamic law is it (#3): everything is always in a constant state of change. Well that applies to every atom in the universe.

This ties in directly with one of the main tenets of quantum physics; that is the observer affecting the observed, by the simple act of observing. So, hmmm. How can we get the most out universe. Let's assume that the universe is actually constructed all around you (which it is btw.) The acceptance of that fact could lead one to belive that the universe is here to serve you. So how do you help it help you? The answer is simple: Get Out of the Way. The universe is trying to make sure you have a bottomless iced-tea. All you have to do is drink. Don''t keep asking her to hurry up and bring it to you.

That's how I made it. I did that right after I decided grass would be green (so far.)

BTW- steer clear of subgenii who say subgenii things, like "praise bob" for they are a loathsome lot, and shall by smited; and there might be shrapnel that could hit you.

If I may quote the Firesign Theater in summation: "either I always tell the truth, or I'm always lyin'...just lyin'! What'll `ya have?"
misstree wow, i would have assumed the reverse about both discordians having the prepared ideas and references... though i can kind of see the slack in that, perhaps because most of my exposure has come from Stang i've assumed it was a slightly more codified set. I also tend toward enlightened bullshit, citing the principia or any number of random things more when i need to express a complex concept... but i, also, am both old school and bokononist. and yeah, i can see subgenii having the corner on tao laziness, whereas discordians go for the empty mind in chaos end of things a bit more. when asked how many discordians or taoists it takes to change a lightbulb, the answer is usually the same: fish! And I don't doubt that it works; the Great and Mighty Parking Dieties prove to me on a regular basis that they are indeed great and mighty; the vehicle (for ideas, not parking) is less important than the Will that drives it.

Again with the mixing and matching philosophies, i personally had thought discordianism was a bit higher on that... but looking at it, they both pretty much tell you, "this is the party line, and half of that party line is that it's all a bag of lies." hmm... have to contemplate this. :)

The concept that the universe exists to serve me is a tricky one. True, in a user-created universe, the user is God, though most can't even begin to tap into that... but to say that it serves you presupposes that you are able to put your will upon it to your own purposes, in contradition to most people's putting their will upon it in accordance to their expectations, which is very often *not* to their benefit. The comment about asking the universe to hurry up with that darned refill does encompass the next point, though, where if you're *trying* to achieve a certain effect, the conscious mind with all its neuroses and desires and fears will often subvert that, where as if you let go (Slack), things are much more likely to flow.

Very, very, VERY interesting, TJ (and ironically entertaining when I remember your screen name *grin*). You've either taught me a lot about subgenii, or convinced me you're acutally a discordian on a penetration mission. (mmmm... penetration...)

Two questions now arise... so you've been given the keys to the universe... what is there to do besides drink tea? Why do anything at all?

Second, if discordians could be said to have a mission, it would be Operation Mindfuck, to shake the panties out of the butts of greyfaces, increase the proportion of eristic vibes, and generally make the universe a more happening place to be. Is there any such equivalent among subgenii, or do they pretty much just say, you guys are fucked, send us $30 and we'll send you a clue, or something or nothing else entirely?
misstree oh yeah, and the sign of a discordian to ignore is excessive inanity. wearing bunny ears to a bar will wake people up... acting in a *completely* random manner, kinda like a coked up bugs bunny, does nothing but get people to ignore the Truly Weird. people who think that the Truly Weird lies in saying "fnord" a lot and dousing themselves with fruity pebbles in the supermarket have lost sight of the pattern that eristic vibes dance to that make them fun. I call a person like that a rhinocerous; sounds silly, but really doesn't do much to the pineal gland. 030807
Teenage Jesus Ah yes, Op. Mindfuck; I'd forgotten about that. But that's not saying much, as I forget just about everything if given anough time.

There was a time when I viewed it as important to zealously pursue High Weirdness. And don't get me wrong; I think it's swell for those with the predelection to do so. And truth be told, I had a good time doing it.

I feel differntly now though. Not with regard to the value/importance of The Good Work, but with the idea that I've got to spend time and effort getting it done. Oh I do what I can, but I'm not actually getting up or anything. Besides, I'm all shagged out waiting tables at my house; little chips off the old block my boys are. NOBODY soaks up the slack like they do; and I admire them for it.

I've actually been able to help the operation more this way. Maybe I am a discordian? I always assumed I wasn't b/c they just reminded me of anarchists I've known, and those folks as a rule are very exhausting to be around, Bob love `em.

I can't speak for the subgenii as a whole; nobody can..except Stang; he owns it, right? But I do know this, the subgenius must have slack, and that is the end of the story. Oh there would be some who would tell you about planet X, and aliens, and mutating into overmen/uberwomen, etc.- and that's all fine. It gives subgenii who need it a sense of community, and something to talk/write about. It's a frame of reference.

But it really just boils down to the slack. It is the beginning and end of the story for me.

What can you do in the universe? I don't know, maybe I'm soft, or old or something, but I just like the tea. I guess for me, it's just extraordinarily comforting (and I likes me some comfort) to be blanketed in the sameness of change.

oldephebe *mistree*
god! or should I say Bob? But then if I cravenly seek someones' validation of my syntax or appellation of an unknown deity, as it relates to idiosyncratic inverses of interiorization.. and anyway what is the ratio of contention to empirically substantiated fact? Or am I trying to impose the heresy of an inadequate heuristic model upon an essentially fluid anthricitic ideological antipode, (and it strikes me that ideological given the whole rigorous fealty to nomenclature may be the wrong term ..paddle oldephebe the water is deep out here - in the undiscovered country, and by God I'm nothin' if not beholden to the rigorous strictures of nomenclature, no cognitive or syntactic dissonance wanted, so pardon my patois - (by anthricitic I only mean that the obsolescence of standard emperical and rational models cannot exist juxtaposed to the obliterating verities, or subjectivity of the dadaist, anarchic, oh no let's go beyond those inadequation designations - I think I want to say discordiance but I think I need to steep the old temmporal lobes in the truculent waters for a bit - and I think I'm spelling it wrong woefully wrong.

I'm in the forest of Arden, a man could get lost in it's thickets, or at least tangled in the bramble of my incoherent ramble - Blah... Well.. I started out trying to be flippant and yet observe the density and the depth of both of you guys comments, I wanted to allude to imbibing deuterium or something. I think I'll go visit that website you suggested misstree and ah TJ could you give me some sites to peruse as well - I'm intrigued by this vein of thought - I'm not ready to metaphorically trek to Mecca or spread out my Afghan rug and ablate myself in the inculcation of an ideology, or anything but I am in intrigued.

TJ could you give me some sites that breakdown the whole hybrid taoist amalgam you were speaking of? Ah! Whatever point I was trying to make has been lost in the rococco lattice of my own ellipsis. Come on winds of Chaos carry me home!

And yes maybe I should become acquianted with the nomenclature before trying to use them in such an offhand manner. I Feel like I'm venturing out upon a precipice here. Lo he stands at the edge of the premonitory staring into a primordial intensity, a churning vortex of obliterating thought, damn! and I didn't even bring my snuggy bear or night light. I like what Daf said about the neccessity of fluidity over elasticity - no. that's incorrect, he said (and I'm paraphrasing here) fluidity is superior to elasticity, elasticity has limits, the tether can be torn, fluidity though is endless, ah protean, pours through the permeabilty of settled convitictions or the inertia and or entropy of an imprisoned ego.

Oh and when I said something about the fluidity of an anthricitic antipodes, what I was trying to say is, the dissonance of trying to conciliate to inherently antipodal ideologies or casts of mind it incites a sort of atomic rupture of the weaker will or cast of mind - and ah what is left then sometimes is not able to encompass or embrace the new and sometimes but not neccessarily superior cognitive paradigm, or something like that. No diachotomy of that nature could exist long (I think, unless of course there is a psychotic or schizophrenic shism of being thing going on; or you know you're really adept at compartmentalization. The truly brilliant and sociopathic are especially adept at it.

Now where are those frosted donuts I so enjoy?
Sorry for the rambling
Teenage Jesus Move over bacon! Now there's something meatier!

You may want to check these out- you may also want to use a strainer...

(and I saved the best for last...)

You know, I've often thought of becoming a golf club.
oldephebe thanx TJ

and HeY! watch where you swing that thing! Man you almost hit the balsac.

later I've gotta go soak in some ice
misstree TJ, very clarifying (i actually forgot to respond to yours in the rush to get everything copied out and hide the window. :P ) I can definitely see raising larvae all proper as helping OM and the rest of the world; preserving Slack and Eristic Vibes for generations to come. Slack and hedonism seem to have some interesting intersections, but where those are exactly is very debatable; for instance, i find it beneficial to my hedonism to go to work every day, so that i can do things like get drunk and go to the county fair. I don't know how that would be interpreted in Slack terms... but there's counter examples, like sitting and watching the idiot box (tv) is far more slackful and is usually a default choice, sitting down with some writing and a bottle of wine appeals to the senses quite more. Also, I don't know how much Slack translates into mental Slack... I've always been one to pursue, dear god i almost said pursue enlightenment, cliche as it is, but i guess it's kind of accurate. Pile more experiences into this little broken down hand cart and all that, see how much more of a complete picture I can make. While I certainly feel the call of comfort, comfort has made me stagnant for 3 years. Not completely, there's been some movement, but i don't evolve and react the way that i used to, and as i mentioned this is the most mental stimulation i've had since i managed to talk my way into this darned job. Also, I will quote the Book of the Subenius on this (knowing full well that neither one of our dogmas puts too terribly much stock in the basis that spawned it):

"To our 'primitive' ancestors, the force of evil was not simething against God, but a necessary primal force of Nature--the black, dreadful survival-of-the-fittest part of existence that goes beyond the dead and unchanging. The 'evil' of competition creates mutation and upward evolution. Death makes you get off your ass."

Finally, yeah, active anarchy is pretty damn draining. I put myself in situations where I can send off eddies of it, and do, relatively often. With a prankster's mind the world is a playground. I'm not about to bust my ass putting in 8 hours a day switching people's license plates and preaching about the Great and Mighty Parking Dieties on street corners, but it's the same theory that I espoused to an asshole customer before I kicked him out of my bar; say you walk into a gas station. You can either be nice to the attendant, or shitty to them. Say you're the latter. That person is going to be in a worse mood, and turn around and be mean to the next person. They get pulled over on their way home because they cut someone off, and they give the cop lip. The cop catches the bad mood. You're the next person to get pulled over, and the cop decides you look like an ex of theirs, and decides that they're going to take out their agressions on you, searches your car and finds the body in the trunk.

If only you would have been nice to that attendant...

Everything spreads in ripples, ideas and moods and modes of thought, and weirdness is no exception. When we used to throw parties at Amityville, my biggest duty was to keep the weird and wacky flowing, because once encouraged other people will often become founts of fun and strange and enlightening themselves. So, i make other people happy because i like seeing happy people, and it will spread and eventually hit me in another part of the lake. I spread strange because it makes other people more receptive to strange, and not look at me as funny when i do the *really* weird stuff. It's not about saving the world. It's about having fun.
Teenage Jesus [used-car salesman voice]
Hey, that's Fantastic! I'll get with you on that on Monday!


Enjoy the tea this weekend!
book of eris i had forgotten about this. 040109
z no soap, radio! 050908
what's it to you?
who go