tolerance Dafremen Why do we teach tolerance? Honestly, why?! To tolerate something is to "put up with" it, as if our mere presence entitled us to such an presumptuous indulgence. Who the hell am I to "put up with" you and, gawd help us, who on Earth are YOU to "put up with" me? You are as entitled to this existence as am I, your opinions certainly are no less worthy of your belief and support than are mine. Why presume to tolerate one another's presence? Why presume to ALLOW each other the right to entertain our individual points of view? Is it that tolerance is a first step? Certainly it appears to many of us to be the only ACCEPTABLE first step. Perhaps this is because we feel that our egos take precedence over the equal entitlement to understanding of our fellow man. We would rather see ourselves as having extended the FAVOR of tolerance, over being forced to admit that we OWE the courtesy of respect, or at the very least understanding to those around us, not tolerance. You tolerate. I will attempt to understand, and learn to see in the beliefs of others that which they have found worthy of belief. I will find the beauty that they see and perhaps be moved toward respect, perhaps simply toward a better understanding of their point of view. You "put up with". I will live with, concern myself with and reach out to the people around me. Continue to teach tolerance if it is all that your ego will allow. I will continue to understand that in your slightly self-centered tolerance, you see the hope of peace, and that therein lies the saving grace and the beauty of your tolerance. 020527 ... elisabeth42 First, let me say that I love Dafremen's ideas on this. Beautifully said. But Dafremen, what about those who merely tolerate without trying to understand and have acceptance? I see you at least tolerate that, but do you understand, accept, and respect it? Maybe so. Just wondering. Here are some of my own ideas. First, the dictionary's definition: 1. To allow without prohibiting or opposing; permit. 2. To recognize and respect (the rights, beliefs, or practices of others). 3. To put up with; endure. See Synonyms at bear1. 4. Medicine. To have tolerance for (a substance or pathogen). I have my own beliefs, I am my own person, I have my own habits and actions etc. I know I have no place to dictate what's "right" and "wrong". I'm big on acceptance (to receive, especially with favor). I love to know where others are coming from, tune into their insights, let them know I believe they are totally valid and good. I love to do that, but I sometimes can't. For me, acceptance comes naturally. Or in some cases, I need to reach out and learn and reflect to be able to exhibit true acceptance. But there are situations where no matter how far I reach out, no matter how hard I observe and study, no matter how closely I inspect my shortcomings and obstacles, I honestly cannot feel acceptance for something. This is probably because in my very core I completely disagree. I am allowed to disagree, I can't agree with everything. Acceptance, I think, includes a basic level of agreement, while tolerance does not. When I disagree, instead of fear, hatred, anger, etc, I exhibit tolerance. This is precisely because I DO have respect. Although I disagree with something, it doesn't mean that I can't allow it to be. It doesn't mean that I'm right. That's tolerance. There are times when I disagree and I won't even be tolerant. This only applies to things that people do to hurt, kill, and damage other humans, living things, and the environment. If somebody is going to tell me how much they love to screw goats and afterwards saw off their heads, there is no way I'm going to tolerate much less accept that because it's extremely disturbing and upsetting to me. I think, while it may be best to strive for acceptance, that tolerance promotes friendship and compassion despite differences, and I see that as being very positive. 040523 ... Raina Why do I work in a service field if I don't have any? It's not that I hate stupid people. I hate stupid people with bad attitudes. I hate repeating myself more than once. I REALLY hate when people have poor comunication skills, and expect you to absorb their problems as if you have some type of osmosis thing going on. "How do you suck problems out of the stupid, when the stupid can't speak for themselves?" Boy, did I pick the wrong career. 040708 ... silentbob music: joanna newsom - bridges and balloons The reason that i know God hates me is because he allowed me to choose a class teaching african american literature, analyzing the struggle they went through in harlem in the early part of the 1900's, and the writings that came out of it, focusing on tolerance and acceptance. The bad part is he allowed me to take this class with a person i just fucking downright loathe and it is my own personal struggle to practice tolerance and acceptance with this person in the room while also not letting him intimidate me into not voicing my opinions. laugh, god, you ironic bastard. laugh. 050118 ... zeke blather is for us all. i am repelled by recent trends of unkindness and bullying. i can not find anything good about rudeness, arrogance and the need to convince others that one's own point of view is not only right but that it should be adopted by all. long ago i said to oe that when i feel contempt for something, i try remeber to recuse myself, making all efforts to remain humble. prehaps this might be useful to others in light of recent events. peace all. 060309 ... . . 080530 ... Temporary Enemy of Daf Why tolerate someone spewing toxins in the face of your friends? 080530 ... ha what's that zeke? speak louder, some people evidently didn't hear you! 080531 ... They call me Truth some people will never hear and really listen, and it is impossible to make someone listen who chooses not to. Daf, please, i plead with you. Listen to your words, your own words, lying here on this page for all to see. Do you think you show respect? Do you honestly believe that you accept and seek to understand other views? Do you really respect another individual, when you taunt and insult people and their ideas for FUN? What purpose do your actions serve? Whats the point of FUN if it promotes nothing that you truly believe. Let it sink in daf buddy. There are people that are actually trying to speak to you with reason. Listen. This is not an "I hate Daf" speech. This is someone trying to speak to you, like a human being, showing you respect and being honest with you. Realize the difference between that and an attack against you. Every time someone tries to speak to you about your rudeness, you respond with more rudeness and disrespect. Why Daf? come on homie. at least try to see the world from the perspective of the people that are here sharing this space with you, truly hear their thoughts and understand the worth behind them, see their point of view and understand their anger when you insult them unprovoked. Value these people that you share this space with, instead of forming a campaign against them to insult them and taunt them at all cost. Respectfully . 080531 ... dafremen Fine truth..if you must have a peek behind the curtain at the puny figure hidden there..and since you've obviously taken great pains to control your energy..here you go: world_of_rippled_water It's just a show. Learn to not let it touch you in negative ways. We need that. It's critical. It's important. It's that important. It's important enough for me to not care what folks think. It's important enough to play the hypocrite and stir it up until it makes us all sick..because here's one of those people who can detach enough from it to do so. (Although I'll no doubt cry myself to sleep over it one of these days.) See...it's not just the George W. Bushs' of the world that keep this madhouse alight with maniacal screaming..it's the protesters too. It's not just the asshole behind the hand that's killing us..it's his defiantly screaming victim. It's not just the hunters that hunt the birds. The splash of red paint on fur kills their song as well. The show's not over yet..and I suppose..that's a shame. No, I KNOW that's a shame. But when you have attachment_disorder, it's the easiest thing in the world to hurt the ones you love. You have the secret...but do not know my name. As was said before, you had no idea what's going on here..and may still not. I don't know..we'll see whether you return with your long-winded explanation of how what I do is wrong..or if you'll just take your answer and let it be. And just so you know: I read my words religiously..ask anyone that knows me personally. Most days...they're all I read..again...and again...and again. 080531 ... They call me Truth I have heard that wisdom before, and sometimes i agree, and sometimes i dont. Sometimes I KNOW the world is a show, that the fire is kept ablaze by silly people that believe they can change it or fight against it, or liberate it from its sorrow. And in those moments i would have to agree with your own long-winded version of it, because i have heard it so many times and thought it so many times that it sticks in my throat like vomit. I know everything you say, and yet i know nothing, because other times i disagree with that belief entirely. Its not about wrong daf, its about purpose and intention, and freedom, and compassion and integrity. I know that we are hypocrites, and we are so without realizing it. But there is a part of me, a part of me that will always be there, resting and nesting within me, burning, and i cannot ignore it, because i honestly believe that there is where i am free. I could never give in to this machine. And i could never believe that reality is only one way, and that it is some show where nothing we do matters and we need to detach ourselves from it. There are many layers, and you peel back one and there are more beneath. Some people accept what they see and they dig no further, others dig forever, and what does it matter really? It matters greatly. If enough layers are peeled back there will be enough contradicting truths to feed all ideologies, and yours is no different. I keep digging So i would have to say, that no, the world is not a show or a stage or a play or some magicians trick sent here as entertainment, and sometimes it is, because we make it that way. We decide what the world is, collectively by our acceptance or our rebellion against it or our neutrality or numbness. I am long winded. You are right about that, but you were wrong to assume that this had anything to do with me trying to show you how wrong you are. Or maybe you know more than i do and i am the one who is delusional. This has everything to do with holding you to YOUR words and asking you what the meanings are for your actions, because we can pretend that there isn't one, but there is one. Even when we say the isn't a reason behind it, there is one. Everything is everything. Something is something. It could never be nothing or it wouldn't exist. But I am just talking. Sure, I will entertain your ideology, i may even accept it lovingly. Its no different than if I accept and love the trees because their leaves are green. You are an individual, and i am just spouting nonsense. 080531 ... daf Interestingly enough..you misinterpreted what I said. Perhaps that's my failing. This joke that we call modern life IS a show..it's COPS...it's Judge Judy...it's Days of Our Lives...it's Hannah Montana. It's horribly ironic, tragic and hilarious all at the same time. But this isn't who we are. I don't know who these characters are..and have little intention of conversing with them, except in a cursory.."this is a show" way. For now, those who are real, are recognized. Those who aren't..are enjoyed, engaged and in some cases empathized with..as with any show. I'm waiting for the actors..after the show..when the stage has been broken down. As you say..there IS a reality beneath, once the layers are peeled away. A reality that in short order, will be brought to the fore. 080531 ... daf P.S. Brother_Ray calls these stage characters who cover the actors..the "mundanes." I always thought that was funny. 080531 ... They call me Truth what did I misinterpret? Oh, now i get it, nevermind. How do you judge who is real from who is acting? do you judge them on what you think is reality? Do you judge them on what