birdmad and just when i think i've found a little peace of mind and gotten away from this unending reverie - just when i think i've gotten you out of my head, along comes some little cue to remind me of someplace we went or something we did, or something you said.

(when i still thought that the things you said were true)

anything now for a distraction: scarification, self-flagellation, sticking pins in my face to make me think of anything else.

Because it's easier to focus on this broken flesh than this hellbound heart
awake anyone that subjects themself, to cruel words 000410
MollyGoLightly Don't stick pins in your face, dear. It's bad for the complexion.... 000410
birdmad all things considered, i've come to the conclusion that worrying about my complexion anymore makes as much sense as buying a piano and a new pair of track shoes for a man with no limbs.

but thank you all the same for your concern.
MollyGoLightly Okay, bird. Just be sure to sterilize them first... 000416
Brad owie 000416
birdmad the old, braided leather belt, frayed and worn and broken, the buckle long since missing,

the repetetive back and forth rythm of the belt swinging over my shoulder

self-flagellation as a means of distraction from all my usual thoughts and as masturbation
Knight31 After we broke up,
I somehow destroyed a years happy memories
and replaced it with two or three or four angry thoughts.
Cheating you, cheating myself.
sirius Sharp edges being caressed
One slight touch and my skin is broken

Can't stop, can't stop
Bleeding pain

I'm hearing my own voice
Callling my own name
As from a distance

Can't stop, can't stop
Bleeding hurt

Seeing myself bending over a scarlet finger

Can't stop, can't stop
Bleeding sorrow

Break it down
Shatter the brokeness

Take the razor
Not to hurt the victim
But to hurt Hurt
So He will disappear

I stopped, I stopped
No more bledding depression
Only bledding joy
blown cherry I've got a feeling I posted this link somewhere else, so pls forgive me for posting it twice, I'd hate to be accused of doing a chrity.

silentbob says it too well. There is no improvement to be made on his words. They describe the feelings etched in my heart more precisely than I can bear.

Thanks bobby : )
yummychuckle "its the whole levels of ignorance thing. you aren't the innocently stupid. You could change, you could make yourself better. i dont give many people that credit."

"but i don't want to get better. I know how, i know why, i know what...I'm just too lazy. so please tell me all those angry things you hate about me so I can hate you forever and let go the possibility of me ever loving you. It hurts too much."

"part of me...KIND of...wants you to suffer. just a little. And I hate myself for that. I"m not the sort of person to go off on people like that. Even if I tried as hard as I could, I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do that to you."

"so you just want to draw out my pain?"

"maybe. I don't know. well...where are you on this whole me never calling you ever again thing?"

"you mean how do I feel?"


"like killing myself. i mean I guess Im not dumb enough to try that at this point...maybe i am--"


"well i won't. but I feel bad enough and I just don't know...i mean i seriously thought I LOVED you. and I mean my first REAL love. I thought about this for sooo long. and just for you to suddenly hate me before I get a chance to let go and give it my all...i don't know. It doesnt feel fair. But I guess its too fair."

"huh. well I don't think so."

"huh? wha?"

"you didnt love me"

don't even."

"whatever. what will you be doing tomorrow?"

"um i've decided to spend all day crying, moping and cutting."


"why the fuck would you care? you said you almost hated me?! why be decent in the least?! i just want to be justified in hating you, so i can let go the want. its crazy, I mean I want you so so bad, and when you hurt me it just makes me want you more."

"well i still can't"

---"jamie get off the phone NOW."----

"jesus thats my mom. I have to go. I hate you I love you I dont know. goodbye Nick."

yummychuckle any fool insane enough to like me, or think they love me. (ha!) 020223
blown cherry I think I had that conversation with someone in my head once. 020223
De Valmont Why are you alone?
Masochist, Masochist.
Why are you alone?
Fuck You.
You're such a boy.
User24 what IS that song?

I heard it last night.
it's good, I wanna hear it!
squint crumples writhe.

wow, I had almost forgotten that conversation. (see: yummychuckle post. scroll up, silly!) I would have dealt with it so much differently now...I don't want to have to say this, must be said...I was an idiot (please refrain from immediately correcting me and saying "you ARE an idiot", you silly me-haters out there.)...I could just....UGH the obvious attempt at a guilt trip. someone, give me a gun, please. UGHhhhh.

user24 ultraviolence!
meantimebetweenfailures All things running in my head dont make any sense at all and why should i say them when nobody's listening anyway? I wish eric loved me. I know he does, just not in the way I want him to. I wish I could get over him but he leads it on to make damn sure you dont stop loving him. I wish he'd just tell me everything he hates about me so i could hate him and go cut myself. But I cant cut myself because it makes him sad and I love him. WHY!?!??!! ohhh this neverending circle of hate/love. shit it's too hard. Hmmm good to know these words full of nothingness were my last ever. Time to reach for the blade and slice my wrists deeper than ever so i can bleed crimson and be freed forever from this hateful world. Bye always, me. 040601
shivers scars 040602
2 1:"I could never bring myself to hurt you"

2: "even though i might actually enjoy that sort of thing?"

1:"It would just be too hard"

apparently not.
Darla why would the masochist be alone? expectations and none, so you just want me dead? the masochist you almost killed? bloody hell, i should have fucking known. 040602
innocent insect "There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain..."

au contriare

There happens to be a select happy few that do indeed seek after and love pain simply because it is pain.
Lemon_Soda I can't imagine a baby fresh from the womb that giggles when it gets a smacked or cut.

Any such enjoyment likely comes from what that pain represents, not the pain itself.

I bash my limbs and body against metal poles and allow my classmates to beat me while I stand and take it. This is very painful. Purple bruises, can't sleep, painful. But I do it with a smile because I know what this pain represents. I am toning my body for my art and my own improvement. If I randomly felt the same sensations, or didn't understand their benefit, I wouldn't like it at all. A higher(or lower) purpose is required.

Perhaps life has taught an individual that pain is standard so to experience it brings a sense of comfort and normality. Perhaps they have associated the pain with rebellion, independence, or sexual stimulation. The pain itself is a symbol of these things. It brings to mind and reminds a person of their beliefs, reinforcing them as they experience this pain under similar circumstances, again and again. Sometimes a spiritual reason presents itself. Or mayhap they learn to love and enjoy it for the social acceptance it brings. I did that for awhile. Others like the attention or make their living this way. Like performers in a circus.

All of these I would consider a "good" pain that people seek out, but I still don't believe it is ever the pain itself that attracts them.

There is a considerable list of very bad reasons why a person might seek pain, but thats not what this post is about.

Can those select few please explain to me how they have no reason other than the pain itself to seek it out?
innocent insect you either are or you aren't, those who are know and those who aren't couldn't possibly understand

and yes, it is the pain in and of itself that is sought out

it hurts, oh it hurts

we are not talking abuse, we are not talking destruction.

we are talking pain, simple pain.
Lemon_Soda Is the enjoyment circumstancial at all? Would you smile and say thanx if someone slapped you in a bar? When you bang your elbow on the counter do you giggle? Jam a finger? Stub a toe?Or must it be self inflicted? Or is it completely free of fetter, any and all pain sends a shiver of euphoria through your system? At that point is it even pain anymore? Are your nerves crossed? It sounds extreme. I keep imagining someone who snaps mousetraps on their penis or shoots a staple gun all up their arm with this insane grin on their face like their orgasming or something.

Does it extend to emotional pain or just the physical sensation? What are some examples of how you enjoy pain?
Lemon_Soda I must say I'm intrigued. 050525
Lemon_Soda Huh. From ambiguity to silence.

Or maybe just limited time at the library.

I might have to settle with just not knowing...

...awell, curiousity is the adversary of contentment.
a chaotic gift to idealism to quote innocent insect,
"you either are or you aren't, those who are know and those who aren't couldn't possibly understand"

Later today, i will give a nice long well elaborated explanation. I will continue to do so for as many questions as you hold.

iNsEcUrE_GoTh_GiRl i could sit here and spout the cliched saying about trying to describe, say, red, to a blind person, etc.

it's not even that.

trying to describe the enjoyment of pain is something that is virtually impossible to do.

already i've written several sentences and deleted them,
and rewritten them
and redeleted them

because i can't begin to describe how i personally feel about pain.
i won't presume to speak for other people who have posted on this, or who feel at all the same.
that would be far too stereotypical, and i don't like stereotyping.

so i'll take a deep breath and try to say what i feel.

i like pain.

it's frustratingly simple to say, and i bet it's incomprehensible.

why, what sort, for what effect, who from, what to, what with, etc.

i like pain for several reasons.
if pushed to the extreme, pain gives an adrenaline rush that is better than any fucking cup of coffee.
better than any drug rush, and i've heard that it's more addictive.

personally i've never been played (as in had another person controlling the amount of pain inflicted on me to get the rush of adrenaline and endorphins, to put it very simply and not that accurately).
I know someone who has, and they told me that it was more addictive than a drug.

pain also increases sensations.
for example, a bite can create a tantalising flush of adrenaline through your body, or a deliberate full fingered scratch down the back can make you arch with pleasant shock.

these are just examples that i have experienced.
there is a whole range of objects, tools, techniques, areas, etc that this can be applied to.
[i have the unfortunate problem that people i know come on here sometimes and read my words, and i have no idea if they will be reading this, so i have to keep it fairly... tame.]

the majority of my friends don't understand me either.
for a long time i've felt like a sick freak, wondering why i feel so alive and so good when i experience pain. i like bruises too, they make me feel good looking at them.

i won't attempt to justify this; it's hard enough being open and trying to describe this allure knowing that people are judging my words and most won't understand what i mean.

lemon soda, i hope this clarifies a little. i haven't actually looked at all the questions you wanted answering so i hope that this gives an insight as to my opinion on masochism and pain.

it's hard to explain this because you don't have an instinctive want for it. to me and probably others, it's like wanting sex or eating something you really like.
just a little more than the bare basics; not quite a hobby, not quite a whim.
almost, and increasingly more, of a want.
something i crave.

more questions?
a chaotic gift to idealism thank you. i go away only to come back to the words i would have typed myself.. done by someone else.

thank you. my head aches and i really wasnt up for it myself.
iNsEcUrE-GoTh_GiRl sorry, i didn't mean to answer instead of you, just putting my own thoughts down as well...

please say your words too, i feel guilty about this, like i just barged in front in a queue.

feels odd.
iNsEcUrE_GoTh_GiRl sorry, i didn't mean to answer instead of you, just putting my own thoughts down as well...

please say your words too, i feel guilty about this, like i just barged in front in a queue.

feels odd.
a chaotic gift to idealism i can only handle so much of this tyrannus mental anguish i am being shoved through.
as i said, "thank you". there is no need to feel guilt. i am just not up for the task of explaining this.
dont argue it.
Lemon_Soda I understand pain. I understand its appeal. I love the feeling of being physically beaten. Its part of my training, and yes the adreneline(sp?) and endorphins are freakin' rush.

My question is how can a person say they like pain just for the pain?

Let me clarify. When I ask this, it is because I believe that there are a set of circumstances necisary for anyone to truly enjoy the experience, and if that is the case than it is NOT JUST the pain. People have tried to impress on me that it is the pain alone, and I don't believe them. "Well, you just don't understand."

I understand that subject "A" only likes to be whipped. I understand that subject "B" likes pretty much any kind of pain but won't except it from anyone but their significant other. I understand that "C" won't let anyone else touch them but they will cut themselves all day long. I understand that "D" needs an audience.

I say its circumstancial. What I want to know is, how could it not be? Even sex requires certain circumstances to be enjoyable for any given person. I can't enjoy eating something I like if its got hair or dirt on it, or it isn't made right. Tell me that nomatter what kind of pain it is under any circumstances you love it and I"ll call you a liar.
a chaotic gift to idealism butterfly effect?
even if one argues that it "just for the pain alone", they are admitting it is for some reason even if it IS just for the pain and only the pain... that is still a circumstance. is it not? does the end result, what you get from it in the end, really have to matter? Pain is the reasoning... enjoyment, realization of ones own being, cries for help, etc, etc, etc... are just "bonuses".
i do not say this to frown upon anyone as, we all have our own mental illnesses but, masochism is a mental illness. some do it without question. they do it without question wether they know or not that it is in fact for an end result... this "bonus".
you may call them a liar but it doesnt mean they would fail the polygraph because they dont realize the lie.
Lemon_Soda I don't think its a mental illness. I'm studying under a shaolin monk who is way to level to be mental ill, and yet some of the shite I've seen him do to train, hell, some of the things he's had ME do to train... 050620
a chaotic gift to idealism i'm sorry you took that so literally.
forget i responded to you at all.
Lemon_Soda I hope i didn't sound offended because i wasn't. Or do you get touchy when someone disagrees with you? :) 050620
a chaotic gift to idealism lol
i'm far from offended. you only took my wording wrong or perhaps i just worded wrong either way it's inconsequential. you seem to be always right, megalomaniacal if you will, and merely do not care to continue the conversation with you.
Lemon_Soda Wow. First time I've ever been reffered to as that. Meglomaniacal? I can't wait to share that with Nate... 050620
innocent insect not necessarily a masochist but does often feel like this is all punishment for previous sins, the world's sick sad joke 050629
emmi i'm testing myself, seeing how much i can take. what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. i'm trying to understand things so that they won't hurt so much anymore.
everyday i go a little further. everyday i hurt a little more.
athsara pain encountered vs. pain sought
ouch vs. wake me
stop vs. thank you again
IGG in more than just the flesh. 051118
archivist ***blackFlowers is online***

MindBomb: hey you.
blackFlowers: hey.
bF: how was your day?

MB: busy, but not bad otherwise... how bout yrs?

bF: decided explore a little bdsm

MB: hmm, kinky

bF: yes.

MB: since you seem to be volunteering and since i'm curious, go on.

bF: Went to the place where the guy told me to meet him,

bF: went to the bedroom and took off my clothes as he instructed.

bF: i wanted him to slap me around and punch me a few times, abd though i wasn't allowed to speak, he gave me what i wanted

bF: I undressed him, he flogged me a little with a riding crop

MB: ...

bF: he pushed me down to my knees. wanted me to go down on him, but i refused.

bF: he slapped and spanked me some more

bf: and then he fucked me

MB: hmm...

bf: missionary at first, pushing my knees up to my chest

bF: and then we changed positions and he took me from behind, and it was better that way because i didn't have to look at him since i don't really like him that much anyway

MB: ...

MB: i'm not upset at you, but i realize now i shouldn't have asked.

bF: why is that?

MB: would it bother you if i admitted that i'm jealous

bF: no, it's a natural enough reaction, but why over this.

MB: you say you don't like the guy but you fucked him anyway,

bF: yeah, and?

MB: you kept telling me you wanted me, but then you wouldn't even touch me and barely ever even looked at me when i was right there.


mb: with all of the things you've said...

MB: i don't think it's unreasonable of me to feel slighted or excluded

***blackFlowers is offline***
- - 100223
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