why_hate_america _pax_ I am just curious . . . from another countries point of view. Why does everyone seem to hate America? 040324 ... sab speaking only for myself, i dont hate america the country, or america the people. however, i hate america the government and america the corporate and this is a small list of what i hate about them: their decisions to wade in all over the place when it is economically useful to them to do so, their decisions to keep out of things when they have no financial interest in it their decision to run the world the way they wish to, without consulting anyone else their blind, money grabbing, anything for profit mentality which allows them to fuck over anything and everything they want to, simply on the grounds they can. and i particually hate how the american government for the past ... erm... since woodrow wilson, has been herding the world towards WWIII at a breakneck speed. its my fucking future too, and i would have liked a say in it. then, there are the normal government things i hate, lies, bluff, bullying, toadyism and general deafness to what the people want. but this is not limited to the american government. now, if you think this isnt want the american governement is doing, feel free to do a little checking: their policies about indonesia, who they were happy to support until a masicure so bad that the rest of the world condemned it and america had to pull out east timor, which were annexed and massicured by indonesia and the americans were all behind the indonesians every step of the way kuait, where the americans charged in to free the oil iraq was attempting to annex iraq, where saddam was funded out the wazoo by the US while iran was the enemy of the west, then when the stakes changed, suddenly iraq was all bad but noone said anything about where they got the weapons that made them dangerous iran, who were the evil, satanic bad guys for a while but now noone even hears about them, cos theres a new and shinier antichrist to fight israel, who has been massicuring the palitinians for years now and never even been told off by the american governement, israel is still being funded mainly by the US palastine, who have been fighting back all this time and have not been 'rescued' by the US yet then there are all the countries that have had their democratically elected leaders ovderthrown by coups organised and funded by the US government either overtly or covertly... should i go on? 040324 ... sab there was all that noise about india and pakastan having nuclear weapons, but i will give you a shiney penny if you can name: 1) the country with by far and away the most nuclear weapons on the planet 2) the country with by far and away the biggest army on the planet 3) the country who is currently running the biggest empire in history and so how fucking safe does the rest of the world feel considering the american government has the balls to wade in anywhere it feels like, with any amount of weaponry and soildering it chooses and there is not a godsdamn thing any country, organisation or power in the WORLD can do about it? speaking for this tiny shred of the rest of the world - Not At All. and i've just realised that i havent even covered the corporate side of america that i hate, however, i find myself standing on sabbies_soapbox once again, but i justify it by saying - well, you did ask. 040324 ... _pax_ well, thank you for the response...I wonder what is going to come out of all of this :( 040324 ... sab happy to answer that one too if something doesnt change, we are headed for world war three, everything is going to continue to disintergrate until it reaches a point that it will explode and then nothing can stop the devistation and death that will be delt out by a world blinded by hate and fear. unless somehow, we manage to stop it. but i havent figured out how yet. and it's killing me and if we dont figure it out it will kill us 040324 ... u24 beautifully put, sab. respect. 040325 ... campsbayrich here's how to start sorting it out. American can try to come off it's junkie oil addiction. Until America preaches (and practises) a system of sustainability, conflict will continue. Resources (esp. oil, but water to) are getting short, and they ain't coming back in a hurry. America is totally dependant on artificially cheap fuel. Every damn yank want's their little slice of the American pie - a house in the suburbs, and a 5l gas guzzling SUV. This means that the American labour force, and it's distribution requires fuel - and loads of it. Start cutting the addiction by investing in public transport, densification programs and heavy energy taxes, and thinks might start to change. OH yeah - it might help to start sorting out that little problem we call Global Warming to. 040325 ... blather fact checker 1) top three: united states, russian, great britain 2) with 2.5 million, china has the largest standing army in the world 3) the british empire is the largest empire in history 040325 ... blather grammar check russia 040325 ... blather fact check actually, an article in written in 2001 states: (Frontline, issue 7, 11/2001) "The countries with the most nuclear weapons are Russia, the United States, England, France, and China, respectively. Currently, Russia has 20,000 weapons, the United States comes in second with 10,500." "...the amount of nuclear weapons has been steadily decreasing since 1986, when Russia had 45,000 weapons and the United States had 23,400." 040325 ... jules bush if you peoples be hatin america so much, you should get the @#! out. 040325 ... _pax_ I love you America . . . forgotten in your name is what we once stood for... I love America, I am just trying to understand what is going on that makes so many countries disagree with us. It seems our government is doing things that are pissing off a lot of people and I just want to know why, how it started in the first place and where this world is going because of it all. Why is the truth so hard to find? 040325 ... sab u24, much respect back at you babe. campsbayrich, ok, now i didn't say "what can americans do about this" notice it was - what can we do. if you just sit back and say oh, it's america's fault, they have to fix it, thats a fucking cop out. everyone has to have a hand in this, otherwise nothing will ever change. the world is everybody's repsonsibility. also sweetie, try to stay away from sweeping generalisations such as "Every damn yank want's their little slice of the American pie - a house in the suburbs, and a 5l gas guzzling SUV." because it's not helping anything, really. blather fact checker, cool, happy to take the nuclear thing and the army stats on board, but i would argue about the biggest empire. the british empire certianly spanned a larger area geographically, but for power and wealth i would still stand by the fact that america is greater now than england ever has been. and jules bush, you didn't actually read this blather, did you. had you spent a little more time, you would have noticed that the question was "from another countries [sic] point of view". _pax_ was asking countries OTHER than america their veiw. as a standing citizen of a country other than america, i contrubuted my view. i can't get out, i'm not fricken there. i can also tell you didnt read it because you say "if you peoples be hatin america so much..." sighs. as i stated in the very first sentance, i dont hate america the country, nor america the people. its the kids making the decisions that i rail against. 040325 ... p2 power is relative sure we have more powerful weapons now and gobs more money but i would rather be british royalty at the height of the british empire than president or top ranking official of any modern country nowadays we have the (albeit not-so-effective) world organizations (un, nato, and the like) and the freedom to protest and freedom of the press (biased or not) british rule was absolute piss me off? OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! now that's power 040325 ... p2 btw i'm not trying to start an argument i just want the shiney penny 040325 ... birdmad I would argue that America's nuclear stockpile is and has always been bigger than Russia's based on the "Team B" intelligence gathering apparatus set up in the US Dept. of Defense in which one team of analysts purported that the Soviet arsenal was bigger than our own, It tursn out that this may well have been untrue, in retrospect. As a result, then-President Gerald R. Ford authorized the beginnings of a massive escalation on the construction and deployment of nukes. In reaction to the US's escalation, the Soviets began an agressive campaign of escalation on their own part. Interestingly enough, the members of the "Team B" apparatus which deceived President Ford, who was mostly concerned with trying to combat the economic problems of the day, are currently key players in DOD today, with the exception of the recently resigned Richard Perle. Namely, Vice Presidential Cheif of Staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. Arguably, though, one could raise the argument that "Team B"s deception gambit ultimately yielded at least one strategically successful result in that the increased spending on missile systems by the Soviets in attempt to keep up with our own escalation ultimately proved to be a key component of their undoing in that they could not sustain that type of spending with such an un-viable and unsound economy as theirs Ironically, the future seems to hold the same for us vis a vis current foreign policy in relation to relative economic strength. I may be wrong 040325 ... sab i like the crowns of the english royality. p2, the penny's in the mail 040325 ... u24 imho, as long as people carry on letting their governments get on with governing things without checking what they're doing, things are going to stay the same. If every voter knew exactly what their government was doing, pretty soon the governments would start governing for the people, not themselves. (or things would get radically worse) In England, there are only 3 types of voter: The ones who own the Printing Presses, The ones who own the TV Channels, and The ones who don't vote. I imagine the case is similar around the world. 040402 ... banersnatch in america its The ones owned by the printing presses, the ones owned by the TV Channels, and the ones who accualy wants the u.s to do what its doing, and those who dont vote. i live in america (well, texas. so i kinda live in america) so fell free to ignore these opinions 040402 ... The Heretic BECAUSE BUSH RUNS IT! 040402 ... misstree because they lie to us and we know it and they let them. because we tend to be ethnocentric and ignorant (which is understandable, being geographically isolated and having a media with little interest in giving us outside perspective, and little things like monolinguality and blind patriotism don't shed any good light on us). because our political leaders are cowboys bent on destruction, immature as the nation they represent. because we have the highest proportion of citizens in jail of any industrialized nation (hooray culture of violence, lack of rehabilitation efforts, and drug war. "it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on american people." -bill_hicks) because we indulge in excesses that are destructive outside our own borders; we deplete natural resources, we exploit economic resources (little juan, you're going to get paid enough today that you can almost buy a cheezeburger at your new mc_donald's!), we steamroll any culture we can (we freed you, now do as we say!), and there's barely a sliver of people that scream and rage about it, because it's much easier to shove your fingers in your ears and hope the big bad monsters go away than to get arrested for banging your head against a brick wall that is laughing and turning a profit off of you. just a few guesses. the majority of the animosity *is* for the power structure. but the people who allow the power structure to continue and feed it and re-elect it and don't raise holy hell about the dozens of things they should be stomping mad about, well, they may be informationally challenged, but they're not innocent. isn't innocent either, and is, in fact, a dumb american. 040402 ... silentbob Let's Go to Bed Doo doo doo doo Doo doo doo doo Let me take your hand I'm shaking like milk Turning Turning blue All over the windows and the floors Fires outside in the sky Look as perfect as cats The two of us Together again But it's just the same A stupid game But I don't care if you don't And I don't feel if you don't And I don't want it if you don't And I won't say it If you won't say it first You think you're tired now But wait until three Laughing at the Christmas lights You remember from December All of this then back again Another girl Another name Stay alive but stay the same It's just the same A stupid game But I don't care if you don't And I don't feel if you don't And I don't want it if you don't And I won't say it If you won't say it first You can't even see now So you ask me the way You wonder if it's real Because it couldn't be rain Through the right doorway And into the white room It used to be the dust that would lay here When I came here alone Doo doo doo doo Doo doo doo doo Let's go to bed 040402 ... minnesota_chris rude and selfish 040402 ... chloeNtheSUN Pain polluted days dripping from our mouths rivers of solitude mountains of money images of perfection porcelain laid lips speaking gospels of consumerism boiling in the Novocaine reality tongues removed by sorrow millions of smiles beckoning understanding feigning meaning of another and another so mighty so hating so desecrating so there so nowhere so hurting we fall between indifference rejection and the whole fucking wall we fall the wall that sprays flowers with pound signs that ignores truth in pursuit of lies that paints perfection into living rooms that holds guns to poets' souls that pays two pounds an hour to encourage a free market that flies flags; sweet icons of alienation good only to be set alight that swallows workers into corporate gashes that stitches solitude into crematoriums that elevates greed and money makers that loves banks that builds tanks that vomits credit cards that lashes people into poverty turns flesh to wax that is nowhere that is everywhere that bites our necks that is the air that I know exists that I know slits wrists that I know rapes wombs that I know is here that I know is everywhere that I can see that I can't see Pain polluted days sucking crucifix money pledging happiness upon the alter of indifference souls stabbed senseless by the cult of the nameless that culls everything that doesn't make money pray correctly produce adhere reason consume what screams this silence what atrophy throws bricks nowhere what distance this voice what visions blur reality what aloneness signs catatonia what winds of concrete wind through The City what blood smears lips intransigent what snaps spines like fingers causes amnesia from TV what wires of conformity what shores of routine what perfect washed faces bathed in acid what asphalt ataxia clasping religion what unbreakable silence what wet strangled sun; stasis in obedience mouth wash narcotic what streets of white what confusion armalite- what anxiety stabs arteries from darkness what suits stretch skin to rebellion yet rebellion is only a page and existence continues enraged clothes scag on barbed wire laws thoughts as sentence life as resistance but doubt is the needle frustration the crime blistered cancer breath the voice that stutters sublime that stutters. -Patrick JOnes 040620 ... chloeNtheSUN Torying (from 'The Protest Of Discipline') Pain polluted days dripping from our mouths rivers of solitude mountains of money images of perfection porcelain laid lips speaking gospels of consumerism boiling in the Novocaine reality tongues removed by sorrow millions of smiles beckoning understanding feigning meaning of another and another so mighty so hating so desecrating so there so nowhere so hurting we fall between indifference rejection and the whole fucking wall we fall the wall that sprays flowers with pound signs that ignores truth in pursuit of lies that paints perfection into living rooms that holds guns to poets' souls that pays two pounds an hour to encourage a free market that flies flags; sweet icons of alienation good only to be set alight that swallows workers into corporate gashes that stitches solitude into crematoriums that elevates greed and money makers that loves banks that builds tanks that vomits credit cards that lashes people into poverty turns flesh to wax that is nowhere that is everywhere that bites our necks that is the air that I know exists that I know slits wrists that I know rapes wombs that I know is here that I know is everywhere that I can see that I can't see -patrick jones 040620 ... oldephebe www.audblog.com/media/11792/66216.mp3 recorded@7:55pm EST 040621 ... Aggressiveness ??? 040621 ... oldephebe www.audblog.com/media/11792/66468.mp3 www.audblog.com/media/11792/66471.mp3 recorded 11:09 and 11:16 EST i hold a battered dream, that america will one day really live up to the meaning of hero, and not exploit the term as some jery built justification for it's forays into sovreign nations, i hope that it will sever this link between private greed of special econoomic interests and national security... i hope that one day all of the parroting parades of prussian like battallions will really stop to think for themselves and stop to imagine the plight and the experiences and the sovreignity of other poeples - empathy - yeah america could use a real good dose of it.... 040622 ... u24 blather_fact_checker: wasn't the roman empire bigger? I my be wrong. 040622 ... blather fact check all roads may lead to rome but the sun never set on the british empire from http://www.wwnorton.com/nael/20century/topic_1/welcome.htm "The Roman Empire, at its height, comprised perhaps 120 million people in an area of 2.5 million square miles. The British Empire, in 1897, comprised some 372 million people in 11 million square miles." 040622 ... dosquatch Isn't China still bigger in both population and physical size? 040622 ... frd Hate how it cannot become what it should be, not what it is. How long does it take most empires to fall? about 400 years? Halfway there. It might benice for America and the American way of life to go on forever, but it is too self destructive by nature of its founding premises, however the best in existence today. Luckily this helps improve the next evolutionary step. In fact without America, there may not be another evolutionary step. The haters of the world would like to make sure of that. Maybe America should just become another Switzerland and let the rest of the world decompose into itself? Or maybe America should get involved only when everyone agrees that America should be involved (ie never.) 040622 ... blather fact check at the time, the british empire was composed of 25% of the world's population & land mass. today, china, with its population of 1.289 billion to the world's 6.314 billion, the percentage is closer to 20%. (based on 2003 census) it's a close race, but the brits still have it. as for land mass, you are correct, the mongols at one point had an empire of 13.8 million square miles, including china. it remains the largest land empire in history. 040622 ... chloeNtheSUN Pain polluted days dripping from our mouths rivers of solitude mountains of money images of perfection porcelain laid lips speaking gospels of consumerism boiling in the Novocaine reality tongues removed by sorrow millions of smiles beckoning understanding feigning meaning of another and another so mighty so hating so desecrating so there so nowhere so hurting we fall between indifference rejection and the whole fucking wall we fall the wall that sprays flowers with pound signs that ignores truth in pursuit of lies that paints perfection into living rooms that holds guns to poets' souls that pays two pounds an hour to encourage a free market that flies flags; sweet icons of alienation good only to be set alight that swallows workers into corporate gashes that stitches solitude into crematoriums that elevates greed and money makers that loves banks that builds tanks that vomits credit cards that lashes people into poverty turns flesh to wax that is nowhere that is everywhere that bites our necks that is the air that I know exists that I know slits wrists that I know rapes wombs that I know is here that I know is everywhere that I can see that I can't see 040622 ... chloeNtheSUN sry i didn't see that it had gotten there and I really wanted to post that poem. hehe 040622 ... please what do have cataracts or something? 040623 ... minnesot_chris that was very pretty chloe, in a nihilistic dystopian sort of way. Like a daisy cut off and lying in the mud. 040623 what's it to you? who go blather from