she1 kx21 First Heart of Ten_supreme_hearts, the Spring of Perfection / supreme_Enlightenment: To pay the highest respect to all Beings... 010820 ... kx21 What is meant by "paying the highest respect to all Beings"? And what are the simple ways to practice or manifest that? 010821 ... unhinged honesty all the time (hey, it's one of those things you can strive for) 010821 ... unhinged understanding too all the time 010821 ... DannyH Should we show equal respect to all beings, even when they are wrong? 010823 ... kx21 It starts with smile, instead of right or wrong? 010824 ... kx21 It begins with smile, instead of right or wrong? 010824 ... kx21 Given Ten_Supreme_Hearts... Which_is_better:- a) Negative action + Negative reaction, b) Negative action + No Reaction, or c) Negative action + Postive Reaction? N 010925 ... unhinged c 010925 ... kx21 Given Negative action... Which_is_better? a) Condemn & Respond it with Negative Reaction(s) (e.g. Punish negative, execute negative) b) Supress and Balance it with Positive Reaction(s) (e.g. Isolate negative, Reward positive) c) Embrace and String it with Positive Reactions... 010925 ... kx21 Version 1.1 Given Negative action... Which_is_better? a) Respond & Suppress it with Negative Reaction(s) (e.g. Punish negative, execute negative) b) Condemn & Balance it with Positive Reaction(s) (e.g. Isolate negative, Reward positive) c) Embrace and String it with Positive Reactions... 010925 ... unhinged i grew up in a house of negative reinforcement 'that was good but you know it could always be better' and i turned out okay...for the most part...i think. so maybe.... a but now that you reword it definitely not c. give me a few days to ruminate. 010925 ... kx21 well said... The natural response is dependent on the given(s), specfifcally the_memory_of_the_universe hidden in Human's body or Mind... The final answer:- Twist & turn Human's memories? 010925 ... kx21 For instance... Pray: know_how_to_pray... 010926 ... kx21 To pay the highest respect to all Beings:- The missing knot in Human string... 011028 ... kx21 To pay the highest respect to all Beings:- The missing knot of Human string? 011028 ... kx21 Given the Box: Cosmos / Universe / Nature... Is it True:- Human(s) = Machine(s)? 020226 ... kx21 stop the curse(s)... 020322 ... kx21 Stop cursing... 020322 ... Ahmad humans do not equal machines. a human has will and conscience. any creature that can state these three facts is not a machine. i am alive i can do what i want i know what i am i do not believe that for example, an ant can do these things. the ant has no apparent awareness of itself as a life form. and i do not believe that it can do what it wants, it is driven by simple programming to find food, or whatever ants do. i believe that such creatures can be called machines. more complex creatures such as dogs are arguable, can they express or do these three things? humans can. 020825 ... kx21 Thus i have heard:- Each mote of dust is an Universe... Each string or particle has a set of well integrated sensors, similar to human's Eye, Ear, Nose, Tongue, Skin & Mind; or a soul to sense the spectra, sound. scent, smell & shape of Nature... 020826 ... kx21 The Father of Copy_Free... 030119 ... User24 wow, a full physics lesson for free. 030328 ... ferret we are alive. humans are alive, that is stated as a fact, who makes it a fact? the one in control, the one in control states that to be classified as alive one must respond to stimuli, and a bunch of other stuff. we are alive. simply stated. but, we are made up of trillions of tiny cells, each one alive, much like a colony of ants. the cells do not think, states the one in control, they merely act. much like ants, ants do not know what they work towards, states the one in control. they merely work because that is what they were created to do.....states the one in control. much like ants, cells do not know what they make up. a human body is much like an ant hill. each ant being a cell. so in reality, are we alive? or are the things that we are made of alive? the one in control has no response. an ant hill is NOT alive since it does not respond to stimuli or do any of the aformentioned or indicated classifications of being alive. but the ant hill is made up of things that live but do not know their purpose. cells live and do not know their purpose and yet the bind together to create something called a human, therefore, a human is no more than an anthill which is not alive, so therefore a human is exactly like a machine. again, the one in control has no response. 030426 ... niska we can choose what to respond to. regardles of the matter which holds us together, much like foremen in factories keeping things running smoothly, we pursue goals more important to us than merely breathing or feeling like we have to pee... we respond to the stimuli in our environments. we react, and we decide. a machine would never contemplate this. 030426 ... ferret maybe. maybe not, maybe we are not "comtemplating" at all. maybe our memory capacity was not well enough adapted to properly understand the meaning of the word "destiny". a human says that destiny is something that they are meant for. but what if "destiny" has been misunderstood? destiny could simply refer to everything that WILL happen, regardless of what you think YOU choose. it could all be destiny. fate. much like a computer programmer could program 2 "bots" to respond to certain things the other has said with a random choice of strings. we could be genetically programmed for everything that we will ever do. if we could pick apart a gene and understand everything we see, then we could understand everything. we could learn what the "person" that that gene came from would do, and how we would influence that person to try not to do the things the gene says to do. but because it has all been planned out already, that gene was a dummy gene, in reality, the other genes could have been the exact opposite of the gene you picked apart. remember, i am not saying that this is the truth, i am merely stating that this is a possibility. while i do not necessarily believe it, i like to keep my mind open to things like this. never be closed-minded. 030429 ... kx21 ANTs ~ HUMAN... Can ANTs Feel the smell of Man_talk & Think about the scent of Woman_nag? Show one why_not... And_I_will_Tell_you_How_wonder_you_are... 030429 ... shorlove ...in to the Black Hole! 030430 ... niska yeah, ferret (though i wasn't seeking a response), we could. could, would, should... these days we keep fucking with the natural order. dissecting the foundation of life to all the possibilities we could have if we were to maipulate it's existence, is likely to destroy it. but maybe that's our destiny. could be... yes, keep an open mind. 030511 ... kx21 Let_there_be_Light:- "Free_Rights_Operations..." 040522 ... SA Instead of saying, 'Play nice,' say, 'We don't hit, we hug 040611 ... :) We_are_the_Universe... 040611 ... Connecting..the.dots.. " ...my friend and we'll keep on fighting till the end" 040611 ... We are the champions ... 040611 ... dosquatch Sometimes, there's nothing so educational as a good backhand. 040611 ... SA Children Who are hit learn it is okay to hit. I stopped a friend of mine yesterday for just that. She slapped her 2yr old for hitting a playmate...???? What does that teach...??? 040611 ... :) eliza * ray_charles * dosquatch Amen. 040611 040611 040611 ... Connecting..the.dots.. Do you forget where we are? truly you make me laugh 040611 ... One OM... 040611 ... dosquatch Children who are not hit learn that the harshest penalty they'll ever have to face is sitting on the couch for 5 minutes. Sometimes, what the child did wrong could potentially hurt them a lot worse than a slap. If they don't respond to time out, your job as a parent is to step up until they do. 040611 ... Connecting..the.dots.. what if they eventually no longer respond to physical violence as well, then what? 040611 ... dosquatch OK, we can do this, but let's get this said up front: I am whole heartedly against child abuse. Anybody who abuses children, in any fashion, deserves to have those children taken away because the child certainly deserves better. I do not advocate spanking or other corporal punishment as a first resort except in a very few circumstances. Non-violent punishments are preferable. If time-outs, loss of privelege, and groundings are working, please stick with such. Now, forward with my point. THE WORLD IS NOT NERF-COATED. In spite of all of the liability lawsuits that have tried to make it so, it just ain't. Do you think a hot stove is going to hesitate to burn your child? Or that a pot of boiling water will scald them? Or that a sharp knife might take a finger off? Do you think if Junior pulls Kitty's tail a few more times, Kitty won't turn around and take a swat of her own? Do you think electricity is going to have any mercy? Or Drano? If your child is climbing out of the dormer windows onto the roof, do you think gravity will have any mercy? A two-story fall into the hedges hurts. Nevermind about parents or peers, nature teaches by negative reinforcement. You have no idea what, "Don't touch, HOT!" means until you actually *experience* "hot". Then you know, and all Mom has to do is say, "no, hot" and you remember touching that stove. It's a very quick and very effective lesson that no amount of time-outs will teach well. For all of the safety precautions you might take around your house, kids are smarter than we like to give them credit for. You think they won't figure out how to get into the cabinet under the sink? Think again. You think they can't pry those plastic protectors out of the outlets? HA. And then there's all of the bad stuff they can get into dealing with people. Like the drug dealer up the street. You think he's not there because you live in a nice neighborhood? I have bad news for you, there are more drug users in suburbia than anywhere else. Do you think your kid is better off laughing off another time out and going back, or knocked across the room? I know which way I was better off. 040611 ... Sa No kidding Dr.Spock. No Blather as aggravatted me till now. As a mother to one. A babysitter to all. and aunt to 10 kids. I know. 040611 ... .... Are you a father or mother. 040611 ... . ????????????? 040611 ... dosquatch Was that agreeing or disagreeing with me? 040611 ... SA I will get back to you I am upset. cryinginvisibletears 040611 ... Connecting..the.dots.. Regardless of agreeing or not it's not as if any one agreed it would some how make you right or if any one disagreed it would some how change your thoughts/beliefs on this issue 040611 ... dosquatch I know, I was just curious. In much the same way, I don't expect that what I said in any way changed your mind. But that doesn't mean that I'm wrong. It doesn't mean that you're wrong, either. I was just stating my case. I'm done. 040611 ... Connecting..the.dots.. I'm glad you did, I like you and what you wrote above helps me understand you better 040611 ... Voodoo child Let me preface this by saying that i was hit very rarely as a child, probably less than ten times in my entire life. Granted, kids will see and feel pain for themselves in the world even without living through a single instance of corporal punishment from their parents, teachers, whatever. Nature usually tends towards the simplest and most efficient system to ensure survival in the wild, and these have held us in good stead in the past, so why change now? (i think that's ur argument summed up?) But can you really use the 'natural order of things' argument in this case? For example, nature 'says' that we should do whatever it takes to ensure our survival and that of our immediate family, yet ethics and philosophy has taught as that some basic consideration of the universal good is neccessary. Just from that example (there are many others), can u see that simply using arguments based in biology isn't a convincing way of putting your point across? To put it another way, theres formal logic, and then theres substantive logic. Formal logic (sorry if you know all this) maintains that the only goal worth striving for is maximum efficiency (basically, most efficient = good), and perhaps hitting children does stand up to that kind of thinking. But substantive logic is more meaningful (i think), it actually values the MEANS with which you try and accomplish an end. So while hitting kids once a while doesn't make them (or the parents) bad people, there are certainly BETTER ways of educating them about right/wrong. Because really, does hitting a child actually teach them HOW and WHY their behaviour was wrong? or does it just lead to a primitive fear of punishment, which (in many personality types) is a very ineffective way of controlling behaviour. It is kids whose parents used mostly negative reinforcement who often turn to drugs, crime etc, because they don't consider their behaviour, only the likelihood of them getting caught. A much better way is to attempt to reason with the child, and show them using as simple vocabulary as possible how what they did affects the people around them. clearly logic isn't going to work with young kids, so emotional manipulation is another option... (that sounds horrible!)... what i mean by that is maybe using a close friend of theirs and saying how much they hurt their friend by doing what they did, and how sad the friend is etc. Anyway this is long enough! but i do know where you're coming from dos, it's just that there are better ways of dealing with educating children on what is right and wrong. As i see it, your argument could be used in defense of capital punishment ie. as a last resort. Do you really want to use that kind of argument? 040612 ... Connecting..the.dots.. "Show them using as simple vocabulary as possible how what they did affects the people around them. Clearly logic isn't going to work with young kids, so emotional manipulation is another option" That really irks me. My parents never talked down to me or simplified their vocabulary around me or when speaking to me, and logic and common since are closely intertwined, give a kid/child/baby a solid foundation in both (or at lest just one) And you'll have fewer problems. as for when you said "what i mean by that is maybe using a close friend of theirs and saying how much they hurt their friend by doing what they did, and how sad the friend is etc." Maybe it's simply bc I was raised differently but doesn’t it work just as well if you ask the child how they would feel if their friend had done so-and-so to them? making them see from the perspective of another teaches one to be considerate of others and not so selfish, where as going hey look you hurt this other kids feelings can be shrugged off w/ a "so" bc they don’t see how that effects them any. also just in general, ignoring a child and instead of saying I'm taking away your toys or what ever, saying that you no longer trust and respect them hurts more and also works (yes emotional manipulation) especially if you ignore them for a time (say a day to a week depending on what they did) Any way I've said my peace. 040612 ... PS also shows them the importance of trust and respect, the meaning behind it just like any one can say "I'm sorry" or "I Love you" if theirs no meaning be hind it then their just words, might as well of said "wombats fly" or "bla bla bla" 040612 ... Voodoo child I didn't mean completely simplifying everything so that it loses all real meaning to the child! But yea, ur tactic seems like a very good one as well. I was only throwing things out there as options, i've never been a parent and have a fair way to go before i become one! I was also made to think about things from other people's perspectives as a child and it definitely reflects in the way i act now. 040612 ... dosquatch Yes, voodoo, that is exactly the argument that I did use. Yes, the same argument can be applied to capital punishment. Yes, I do support capital punishment. That's a completely different rant, though. As for talking down to your kids - see what Connecting said. That pretty well covers my answer. Except for that last part, about ignoring your child - WHAT? Are you serious? Your child should never, ever doubt your love for it. NEVER, EVER. Even in the midst of punishment. It is so, so important that they understand that you are punishing them because you love them enough that you want them to be the best person they can be. I cannot stress this enough. Emotional abuse can scar more deeply than physical abuse. Physical abuse will make them hate you, emotional abuse will make them hate themselves and it will affect every relationship, platonic or otherwise, for the rest of their lives. Withholding love is emotional abuse. That is never alright. 040612 ... Connecting..the.dots.. "I didn't mean completely simplifying everything so that it loses all real meaning to the child!" I know I just object to parents or for that matter any one saying something a long the lines of "do you want a drink-E-wink-E?" and other such crap, Kids if given the opportunity can become vary intelligent at a young age, treat them as a child and that’s all they’ll be if you don't allow them to evolve into anything more. As for parenting, I only know what worked and didn’t, and what didn’t is too unspeakably awful for me to even mention. But I along with you am not a parent nore for that matter ever plan on becoming one for a many array of reasons and I'm glad we can share and respect one anothers thoughts //////// “Withholding love is emotional abuse. That is never alright.” I never, -NEVER- said anything about withholding love! Love is shown through respect, thoughtfulness and considerateness for another person, Love is shown through ACTION! Say a word of phrase long enough and it loses its meaning; really say the word “obscure” for 2 mins and it just becomes another word in a sea of words. We both suffered the abuse but my mom showed me at ever opportunity she got that she loved me, and their was never –NEVER- any doubt of that as I was growing up. With holdings ones trust and/or respect for some one is a different beast altogether, don’t confuse the two Dos. 040612 ... considerateness = Consideration 040612 ... The_missing_dot E_v_e_r_y__l_i_f_e__i_s__i_m_p_o_r_t_a_n_t 040723 ... 1) More_than_11317_Iraqi_civilians_have_been_killed... 040723 ... 2) Coalition_records_its_1000th_death_in_iraq 040723 ... 3) 39_prisoners_have_died_in_'US'_custody_in_iraq__ ... 040723 ... kx21 iLink:- ten_commandments_of_piano_playing 1. Thou shalt respect thy teachers, for their sage wisdom will guide you to the way. 040727 ... 16 hours ago DPP PASSES 'PROTECT TAIWAN' DECLARATION 3122005 050313 ... ... Right_or_wrong? 050313 ... Given _'anti_secession'_law_... 050313 ... in ...With a deadline looming for two Canadians kidnapped Iraq... 051207 ... ?x Love_movies 051207 ... 91 2152006: Germany, Iran and Austria are the latest countries to find the deadly strain of the bird flu virus which has killed at least people worldwide. ... 060215 ... H5N1 Chicken_and_Egg... 060215 what's it to you? who go blather from