shop_talk_with_u24 misstree transplanted from ask_use24_2 'cause this is kinda a specialized discussion, as first seen on ask_use24... leans pretty much into the concepts of chaos_magic and consensual_reality and muckity muck like that... anyhow... o ya, i did forget to tell you why i asked that question, didn't i.... yes yes, getting a Thing back... sumup, i left a my purse at a party many fridays ago... it had my poetry book (which i've been willing to be shot over) and my digital camera and tape recorder, both of which had some incriminating evidence of debauchery, (lurvely evidence at that)... the people who owned the house said they hadn't seen it, and i was pretty sure it wasn't ganked... it was poking at me day and night... worry for this thing... so i think to myself, "hey, i should do ritual over this"... figgered that, results or no, it would help me to not obsess about it... as soon as i thought this (on a wednesday or tuesday), the thought popped into my head as if placed gently by a little birdie that i would get it back on saturday. did rit on thursday, in much the usual manner; cleared a space on my floor, wandered about gathering appropriate items, sat, lit some candles, thought about things for a bit, and asked for the assembled Trinkets and Things and servitorlike substances to bring my book back to me... figgered aiming for the pottery book would be easier than the whole purse, as it and i are rather intimately acquainted... also specifically set the concepts of my patchwork_journal and Nobody after it... Nobody 'cause he's my right hand Thing and most concieved of as having movement, and the journal because it had a similar rit done for it when it disappeared in nola, and because it and the poetry book spent quite a bit of time running together... wrapped up the journal in the scarf i had laid down, set it aside, disassembled everything (unusual, normally i leave things mostly set up but off to the side, but this happened to be in the middle of the floor and needing to be squished out of my brain)... o ya, once i had everything set, did a bit of a cutting to send it off... very shallow, but it bled and it left the appropriate mark... it's a symbol tied to the journal... besides helping clear and release, it's just above the knee, thus in easy thwapping range if i caught myself beginning to think about it... "but i want to get my camera back... ow! that stings... hey, what's that shiny thing over there?"... 'course, later that night found my playmate in exceptionally brutal mood, and i picked up a few wounds that rendered the cut meaningless, but there you go... the next night, went to a party... just after howling at a new moon, i lost my jacket (recovered later that night), lost my phone and id, and lost my ride home... went home shaking with rage... next morning, woke up, hauled ass to a friend's place, and spewed all this twitchtwitch, vented it out of my system. watched mooji_moo win the race, and had the golden_apple_awards kiss me on the cheek and smile, tell me it would all be okay. i tell ya, that eris sure is a piece of work sometimes. just after that, the friends remembered that they had a few items of mine that i was missing for a while. yay! day continues, exceptional timing brings me into contact with the ex, who returns much more stuff... things like that... went out that night, but rather than getting my purse back, i believe that was the week caesar and i got kicked out of a party... huff puff... tree gets a little worried... a day or so later, it occurs that *which* saturday was never specified... that next thursday, i get my phone back, and i get an email saying that the my purse was found hiding in the basement... things tumble about a bit, we miss eachother on saturday, and on sunday, ta da! mine once more. zo that was that. i'd have more questions along that vein for you, but right now most brainpower is set to chugging through some of the finer points of being a sensate and poking at turning evolutionary focuses into being a more efficient social predator... dunno what you make of those, if anything, but of course questions, comments, rants, opinoins (but not opinions), and general babble are quite welcome. how's things on your end? played with that tarot yet? hey, what's your opinoin on that whole divinatio/augury thing anyhow? any idea how/why/if it works? *lick!* 040212 ... u24 :) answer in the factory, probably sunday night. thanks muchly. oh and good idea, btw! 040213 ... u24 or maybe monday night.. I'm about half way there :) 040215 ... misstree take your time, darlin', and know that i have another poke lined up inspired by spiritual_healing when yer ready. 040218 ... u24 Boom. hey, well, I'm at work so the first half of my repsonse is sitting at home (at least I hope it is, otherwise that means I deleted it.) but I thought I'd write the second half of the response (got a thing about answering sdrawkcab): things on my end? not bad at all. don't remember if I said, but me and Linds have now both been accepted into uni in wales, so we're giving up the flat at the end of this month to go and live back at her parents (enables us to save lotsandlots. we're aiming to have saved £6000($11337.95 by today's rate) by September, couple that with a £3000 student loan each, each year, we reckon we'll be able to make it through at least the first two years without having to work. rock on us!) anyway, so that's the main thing in our lives. going on holiday in may with our best buddy Adam, to Greece (well, a Greek island; kefalonia) (which honestly we would cancel in order to save more, but it's already paid for) planning to go to london in march to see jane, and hoping go on from there to Brighton to see my big bro, Karl. so, that's the physical side dealt with. I'm still working on the fundamentals of my beliefs (of course, the basic structure of chaos is there, but I need the trimmings) witchvox.com has been my main lunchtime destination while at work. any links you'd care to share? I like the (neo-)pagan(/wiccan) approach, but can't bring myself to beleive in a physical set of Gods. So I think I'll end up pretending I beleive in them. ;) no, still haven't broken open a tarot deck. There's a few I'm looking at on the net (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/tarotc.shtml - have yet to look through the whole lot, but ones like the Osho deck, and the "Deck of the Dreamers" are nice looking ones - I don't particularly like the more traditional illustrations) Yes, I think divination can work, and as usual, it's all in your mind; you can find meaning in anything. But I think tarot and scrying are two good ways of doing it (bearing in mind I've never actually done either) because they're well established, making it easier for your mind to think "hey, maybe there is something in this", and (especially with tarot) they are a complex enough system to allow a lot of variance; sure, I could make my own system of divination up, and given enough effort, it would probably be pretty good, but it would have to be very well thought out; tarot is so intricate it can allow for all sorts of events that might not otherwise have been predicted. and how it works? As you know, the universe is based on a seemingly random system. But by looking at Chaos, we can see that while it's complicated, it's -not- random. And the implication of that is that nothing happens by chance; there's always a reason. Whether it's a logical or conscious reason is unknown of course, but there is a reason! So, the cards that are drawn on a particular reading, are drawn because of certain parameters in the system, and I'm sure that if you watch what tends to happen after certain readings, you'll notice patterns; and hence be able to predict the future, perhaps not down to specific events (you'd need a lot of cards and patience to read the state of the whole universe) but at least to predict which way the future's currently headed. Another good thing with Tarot is that someone's already watched the outcomes of the cards and found out what they signify. I do however think that each reader will read differently; that is, a card will have different meanings to different people, and be drawn in different cicumstances, so I think it should be important not to stick too rigidly to the traditional interpretations. (as you said in candle_colors_and_associated_meanings, if you associate green with love more than pink, use a damn green candle. (paraphrased)) :) 040225 ... dammit. candle_colors__and_associated_meaning 040225 ... u24 hmm.. found the first half, but it was really jumbled, and I've said a lot of it already, so here's the (very) condensed version -------- Well, I tried to do a ritual for ya, but honestly I (didn't/never) really have much time so it turned more into an informal chat as per usual, I asked for a few things (details to follow) and said thanks for a few things, and asked for a favour to be thrown in your direction.. this was... last saturday? I think.. (time flies/drags/merges into one long blur these days) anyway, I'm glad you got it back. I really don't think I had much effect, I couldn't really concentrate properly (much tiredness) -------- ah, quick question (which I may have already asked, if so point me): (how) do you say thankyou after a ritual has suceeded? :) 040227 ... u24 one thing Linds mentioned about Tarot, that I think is very true, is that it gives you a good starting point to think; that is, when you draw the cards, you interpret them how you do, and from that, you can gain insight into how you think. To a large extent, you make them mean what they need to mean. 040228 ... u24 ok, I'm done now. 040305 ... misstree did you wash your hands? it'll probably take me 'til monday to go over this, head is spinning so pretty right now, and long weekend ahead... yep yep yep, wheeeee! giggling like a schoolgirl... well, if you've ever seen battle_royale, that kind of schoolgirl... once she's built her secret island lair from which to take over the world... anyway... 040305 ... misstree (blame it on 2 hours of sleep and three words.) 040305 ... u24 not a problem, my life is totally manic at the moment, supposed to be moving house in, oh, 2 weeks. Linds cleaned out 2 bedside tables and produced 5 black sacks of crap to throw away. we've got a long way to go. 040315 ... misstree headspace at work lately has been a bit strange... time and more time... there will be answers... and questions... 040315 ... u24 I have tarot. I think it's only the major arcana. I will play. :) 040326 ... u24 Played. interesting results (as you'd expect) What I really need to do, is have someone do a one card reading for me, asking something like "Tell me something I'll need to do in the next 3 days", and then also draw 4 random cards, I'll then look at all cards drawn, and mark down all the possible matches for the next 3 days, the card with the most matches should be the non-random card. But I haven't done that. yet. What I did do was a simple 3 card (past/present/future) reading, and here's what I got: world^ moon chariot^ (^ indicates inverted card) using vaguely standard interpretations, taken from http://www.free-tarot-reading.net/meanings/index.php and cross referenced to ensure accuracy of definition with a (not very in-depth) book of mine. (entitled 'tarot: a beginners guide'... bleh. at least it's not 'how to turn your ex boyfriend into a toad' (http://www.amazon.com/exec/ obidos/tg/detail/-/0732257093/ 104-0345515-5457571?v=glance)) anyway: ---- The World inverted points toward delays and that you may still need to overcome some challenges before you suceed, so don't give up so close to the finish line negative associations with this tarot card: stagnation, lack of will, impatience, delays ---- Well, for my past it's quite accurate, lack of will, stagnation, impatience, feeling like giving up, etc --- When The Moon appears you can be sure it will be a time of highly charged emotions and confusion Despite any fear you may have, the wan light of The Moon will illuminate the way, and even if the path you are on is tough, all will turn out right in the end --- Well, I did do the reading a day or so after a fairly big fight with a friend ('best friend' though I hate the term) and it was down to my insecurities and "highly charged emotion" so that's not bad --- The Chariot, inverted: rage, tyranny, overinflated ego, selfishness, arrogance, delays, frustration negatively The Chariot can mean that either you or someone of influence around you is being a bully, arrogant and selfish another negative aspect is that it can represent frustrations and delays or travel plans that don't go well ---- Again, the negative side points straight at me (hopefully -not- in the future, but still) and we're going on holiday in 2 weeks, so I'll let you know if there are any delays or problems ---- I also asked what I could do to avoid the problems represented by the Chariot, I got Death. I guess that's to be expected really, if the problems are down to me, I've got to change. fair enough. And I also asked how my friend would act around me after the fight, I got 'temperance': "harmony, health, moderation, compromise, peace, self-control" which has held true so far. -------------------------- So there's my initial -experiences-, now for my initial -feelings-: I think that the story behind the cards, rather than the short list of "this means that, that means this" is more useful, I will continue using the tarot, and try to learn what each card -means- rather than what each card -says-. not sure if I explained myself well. I think a personalised set of meanings based on experience with a particular deck is called for. I don't think the tarot reach their full potential when used casually. :D 040416 ... hey you! oi. 040420 ... u24 hindsight: the chariot could have referred to a slightly unpleasant incident on holiday, which involved someone being stubborn and selfish, but then again, it could not. more playing to come one day soonish (which in my terms means within the next 6 months).. :) 040706 ... u24 what's new? 041117 what's it to you? who go blather from