planned_parenthood flowerock Good or evil? I think some of the nurses and doctors and employees mean well and sincerely care, but I think the whole organization is a little scummy. 150316 ... dafremen It was started by a eugenicist who felt that the poor were the genetic failures of our modern evolutionary system spin off. "Give them condoms and keep them from having babies", she said. "Yes, gas chambers are quicker, but the political red tape and fall out are time consuming", she might have said to a friend at a party. 150316 ... unhinged right...providing women with reproductive healthcare is scummy. have you been to a general practicioner or pain management doctor lately? in a country where white male lawmakers are doing everything and anything they can to limit your access to reproductive healthcare and choices for your reproductive healthcare you should be glad there is a highly visible organization that you can walk in to any day any time and get help. 150316 ... flowerock I have received a few different birth control pills and the shots there as well as two abortions. I am thankful for the help and the kindness of some of the nurses I experienced, yes, but I am shocked by the lack of after care or information available there. The nurses told me to take Tums for calcium while on birth control... yeah, tums with calcium my body can't even use and can't even absorb while on the birth control if I could use it because the lack of estrogen in my body nearly prevents it. When I asked the nurses what they thought about that they thought for a moment then admitted that was true and that tums were the only source they could think of but that yes, that form of calcium was not bio available to our bodies. I went back for another shot and they asked how I was feeling on it, I said I felt horrible, terrible cramps and aches and I felt so depressed and empty that I kind of just wanted to die because life was empty and sad and painful. They made notes and gave me another shot... no sympathy or advice, I asked if that feeling was normal and if it would go away and they just said, well everyone is different... No one could tell me about anything but how to get more birth control. After my abortions they just sent me out saying that it's an outpatient procedure so just go home and about life as usual... I collapsed in agony on the bus home, in the grass on the way back from the bus. I bit my mouth bloody trying not to scream, the pain was worse than any beating, piercing, tattoo, broken bone, or accident, I have ever experienced. I bled until I passed out. I got cysts so large and painful that I thought my apendix was bursting. When I went in for my "after care" visit terrified and wanting information and reassurance that I was at least "ok" they rolled their eyes and said I probably didn't need th e visit and that it was just "cramps" I couldn't walk on my own it hurt so bad. I finally saw a doctor hours later, she side I had cysts and that they were usually painful and could rupture and that I could bleed internally and that might be really bad.. if that happens go to the hospital she said, then sent me out. Yes, I am thankful for the access to contraceptives, exams, abortions and other hel, but for whatever reason, at least in Arizona, the doctors, nurses, and staff knew next to nothing, many expressed little to no compassion or care in such an emotional process, and even when I had made and paid for an appointment ahead of time they acted like I was in the way, didn't want to refund me, and then made me wait just to be told I could bleed out internally and die and send me away, as the doctor walked away before I could get a word out. I did meet a wonderful old woman who was so sweet and held my hand and talked to me for a while about the procedure one of the times, for her I am grateful. I had a wonderful nurse the second time who did my blood work and ultrasound who was also very sweet. I had an exam by an older woman doctor who was very kind. I did receive reduced rates for my lack of income and even some funding for things when I was unemployed a d homeless. They do offer help, but I am amazed at their lack of knowledge and organization. It scares me that they offer such strong medicine and procedures with so little, it seems that they are trying to make do with they have but in the world of health that doesn't work so well... Also, I became pregnant those two times while correctly taking their birth control pills and shots AND my partner at the time also usually "pulling out". So obviously that all doesn't work either. They said that the pills and shots alone should work just fine when I asked if I should continue to use condoms. I don't like general practitioners either, generally. I went to a regular doctor for hormone issues I still have, nothing. I went for the issues I have with my digestion and skin, nothing. Infact, that second time the doctor actually told me to go to a naturopath or a doctor who practice more whole and complete medicine because modern health care doesn't have the answer to a lot of things that herbalists do... I admired and respected that answer. So I saved up money and went to a naturopath and he did help me quite a bit and had a lot of understanding and answers and gave me things and suggestions that really worked. So I am suspicious of planned parenthood and also many "normal" doctors based on experience I have had. These experiences were in southern az and northern ca, so anywhere else might be different, I don't know. When I look up Margaret Sanger and planned parenthood I find information that follows what was posted above about eugenics and such, whether that response was sincere or sarcastic, it may have some truth, but I won't argue for or against st that since even that info seems to be biased and not 100% factual. Sorry if my views upset anyone, I am not attacking you, unhinged, or even disagreeing that it's a good thing that pph exists and is easily accessible to most everyone. I am glad, some of us really need it, but I think there is also risk with them because they lack a lot of support they need or something. There is something missing from their practices. And I am suspicious that they are there to control the population, which could be a good thing really, but also harmful in the process. I am pro choice, also pro information. That said, I could also use more information and knowledge on all of this as well. I am only speaking from my personal experience and the lack of resources I found or did not find when I tried to learn more about the effects of abortion and birth control on the body. It's all just arguments for or against it, I want unbiased information. After all of this I decided just not to have sex with anyone I would not like to reproduce with. I do make efforts not to become pregnant, but now I will accept that circumstance if it occurs rather than take questionable pills and shots or abortions. 150316 ... flowerock They provide questionable health care and not with our best interest in mind. It's like providing free meals for the homeless but with food that makes 1 out of 10 people sick or showers with water that might be scalding hot every few uses and cause burns... It's not for us, it's for someone else's vision or comfort and if we are lucky, then we get a few good things too. 150316 ... unhinged lack of resources at planned parenthood is a problem beyond planned parenthood. lack of resources in female healthcare is a systemic problem. bashing planned parenthood for this problem isn't solving the problem. it is only giving ammunition to the male politicians that want to dismantle planned parenthood and it's already meager funding. lack of resources for female healthcare is just another way that we are discriminated against as women in the united states. planned parenthood has fought for us, not against us, to have access to medical abortions rather than back alley coat hanger abortions that many women died of when abortions were illegal. you should be thankful that you had a clinic that provided you with a safe medical procedure that didn't kill or maim you. i do not believe in western medicine as an institution. i do not blame the people and clinics that provide this kind of healthcare for the institution itself. i believe it is my responsibility to educate myself about how i choose to take care of my body, uterus and all, BEFORE i make the choices i make. i do not believe information about medicine just because a doctor or nurse tells me said information. it is my responsibility to do the research and critical thinking involved in making decisions of all kinds, healthcare and medicine included. i don't throw stones at the people sharing the information that they have. if that information isn't complete in my eyes, i go out and find the missing pieces. blaming the system when you take part in it makes no sense to me. bashing a system that works for others just because it didn't work for you also makes no sense to me. bashing affordable accessible female healthcare at a time when politicians across most of america are trying to limit or deny that healthcare to a lot of women makes no sense to me. 150317 ... unhinged and i am sorry that your procedure was so painful and your aftercare was so poor. i did not have the same problems so maybe i am overreacting to criticism, but i personally am very worried about the attacks across the country on our reproductive healthcare. these things will only get worse. one bad doctor, one uncaring nurse, doesn't mean planned parenthood is bad. 150317 ... flowerock It is important that Healthcare is available to women (and men as pph also helps them) but it is also important that the Healthcare is offered in a way that is not misleading. I was younger when I went through these things there and did not yet know that doctors were not as knowledgeable or reliable as I had been lead to believe. In a terrifying situation I believed in their abilities and all of their words and I was wrong. I feel that many people go in expecting that their best interest is in the minds if their care providers, and even if the providers do sincerely care, they might not know what our best interest is. I saw advertisements for new forms of birth control so new that studies were not very telling of how well they worked ect. I worry that pph is a kind of testing place where they give new things to the "poor" and hope they work or find out that they do not work... like the coils you can get in your tubes, a few girls I know got them and all of them had them painfully removed, losing ovaries or having surgeries to repair them. I do take a very personal view of this organization and my experiences there, I don't mean to say that they should not exist but that information needs to be gathered and made more accessible to the men and women seeking care there. That may be a task for people like me to take on and get out there, it is, of course, my and all of our responsibility to know and question and to share our knowledge and answers. I appreciate your well worded responses and sensible points ; ) even if I am not 100% with you on the whole thing, I think we want the same basic thing and demonizing planned parenthood isn't going to achieve it. 150317 ... unhinged honey none of your doctors really know what they are doing when you are poor. all healthcare is misleading to the poor. yes, they do save the not quite safe pharmaceuticals to test on the poor. you need to educate yourself and step outside the system 150317 ... unhinged (you do realize the politics of the state of arizona had a lot to do with how you were treated at that particular pp too right?) 150317 ... flowerock Yes, now I know this, I so rarely go to the doctor for this reason. Arizona is terrible, too, as far as this sort of thing goes. I get upset about it even still because a lot of people do not know and are lead and allowed to believe in the system and be hurt by it. I think that between word of mouth and the vast resource of the Internet now though, more people are becoming aware and helping each other along the way to spread the news. 150318 ... dafremen If you have to go to Planned Parenthood to keep from having babies, then you..like the vast majority of women in our society, are the poor scum Ms. Sanger felt needed her condescending compassion. She felt that you were too feeble minded to keep your skirt down(or your pants up as it were) too emotionally vulnerable to keep from populating her world with more of the burdensome poor. They (P.P) know exactly who and how to market to too: the women who are stuck with the burden of rearing children. It's almost a populist rhetoric for women that birth control is the answer to your dilemmas. Which is why there are so many fanatic fans of Planned Parenthood out there. But look what's really going on. We've been socially engineered to breed like rabbits to keep revenues up and labor costs down. And rather than find a way out of their social conditioning with their minds, our intelligent strong women are convinced to waste their energies and talents defending an organization that's simply there as a safety valve to keep the rich man's breeding stock from overpopulating as they piss their days away working, spending and ravenously fucking. You're so much smarter than that..fuck..schmuck. (Nothing wrong with using their resources. Pigeons in the park eat popcorn, doesn't mean they have to like like concrete and skyscrapers better than earth and trees. Hell use ALL of their resources, but please stop confusing the issues by touting this organization as some hero. It's not..it's animal husbandry for humans.) BTW Their annual budget was just over a billion dollars. They served birth control to 2.13 million women. $470 a year paid by taxpayers so women can have recreational sex. While that might be an investment from a guy's point of view, I'm pretty sure ugly men are getting more of the tax and less of the benefit. That might be unconstitutional. 150319 ... dafremen Just read the rest of the annual report. Not all of that was taxpayer money, only about 46%. The point remains valid however..ugly guys are getting the shaft..er not giving it as it were. (Step up that game ugly guys! Uncle Sam's going Dutch treat on recreational sex at your expense. Better go get yours.) 150319 ... unhinged yeah, so i should go back to the middle ages where i was expected to remain a virgin until i got married. nice argument daf. poor women having access to reproductive healthcare is such an evil in the world. we should just close all taxpayer funded institutions including schools and let anarchy run wild. sounds like a great society. 150319 ... dafremen Or perhaps we should be teaching our children to have their minds on something besides sex. Unless, of course you see some great social benefit to sexualizing children then unleashing them upon each other during their most self indulgent, impulsive years..leaving little girls with hearts of stone and little boys cynical as fuck about romance? Perhaps the notion of a world of jaded, broken hearts over a little non-love-related procreative boogie appeals to you, but it makes me sick to my fucking stomach. And if you can't see how A leads to B, then maybe I did a bit of overestimating on my end. Hell, I've only watched you get yer heart ripped out a thousand times over. Fucker. 150319 ... flowerock I think that educating young men and women with real knowledge and the wisdom we collectively have to offer. I didn't know any better, nOw I do, but I learned the difficult way. I think that sex is healthy and do not believe that marriage mist come first. I do believe that using good judgement is necessary. Only have sex with people you would like to see reproduce in your world. Teach young men and women about self control and more natural body and herbal methods of birth control. Raise generations of "poor" humans to be able to take care of themselves and not need to depend on the toxic offerings of others who don't care about them. We may be financially poor, but that does not mean that we have to be reckless or stupid. I don't have all the answers or know exactly how to break out the somystem entirely myself, yet, but I am learning and it is possible. It is possible to be in control of our own reproductive health and happiness. I do not think this means we cannot have sex for fun or enjoy eachother however we see fit for ourselves and community, I think it means that we have to know how to do safely and wisely. And I agree wi th points made by both of the others here so far even though they slightly conflict. I think that pph is a little scummy, but I also think that something like it needs to exist and it is the quality and the intent that needs to change about the organization and that the public needs to educate itself to know better. 150319 what's it to you? who go blather from