bailout syringe Give_me a fuckin' break. 080926 ... unhinged as much as i hate the idea of it too, with an increasingly global economy, i don't think anyone anywhere wants another great depression. but if the government would have regulated the financial institutions a little better, listened to the warnings, eight ten years ago, shit wouldn't be so dire right now. rich people generally tend not to give a fuck about how their decisions are hurting the common person though. an increasingly smaller amount of people are controlling an increasingly bigger amount of the world wealth and then they wonder why market bubbles are bursting. sometimes i am fucking astounded by the greed in most people. 080926 ... oren My mother used to manage a mortgage company back in_the 80s. She told me that one_day the US government decided that her company wasn't approving enough loans for minorities. When they asked her why, she simply told them that many of these people didn't qualify. The government representatives told her that her company must start approving more loans for minorities or they would shut the company down. At one point, these government folks asked about a particular mortgage that wasn't approved. My mother told them that the people did not have any money for a down-payment. The government people then told her to loan the down-payment money to_the family. This meant that the family would now owe more than the house was worth right from the start. Although there are plenty of crooked lenders out there, keep in mind that the government had a hand in all this shit. Many mortgage companies had a "gun held to their heads" starting in the 1980s. They had no choice but to approve bad loans, or lose their jobs, thanks to our government. 080926 ... protest sign I HAVE A 4.0 GPA 90,000 IN DEBT WHERE'S MY BAILOUT? 080926 ... unhinged right which is why they should have been regulating the market instead of fucking it up the greed of the people in power fucking astounds me even more 080926 ... dafremen It's funny..and not in a Richard Pryor meets Chris Farley sort of way either. I see everyone looking at this bailout and our current financial crisis as though they are the random result of poor management and wonder how much longer we'll continue to believe that what's going on wasn't planned from the start. Is it any coincidence that we have been bled dry and are now on the verge of being mummified for what juices remain in our lives? Is it any coincidence that we've been sold on a system that derives its power from the possession of money, and that we no longer really have any? Is it any coincidence that those who have refused for decades to "do what they are told" have been stripped of their right to vote..their right to keep and bear arms..regardless of the nature of their "crimes"? (What a convenient way to strip dissident individuals of any power to affect change in desperate political times...) Is it any coincidence that our police forces have been armed to the teeth, conditioned and trained to look at us as "the enemy" here at home? Any coincidence that we now support the greatest domestic military force in the history of our country, and that that force is being used...as I write this...against those of us who speak out against the way things are going? Is it any coincidence that troops are now being brought home from Iraq and being trained to quell civil unrest here at home? Any coincidence that those "nonlethal" technologies which would disperse us should we attempt to come together in protest are being deployed among these various battalions..and that our own troops ("Support Our Troops")are being taught not to look at us as kin...but as targets? What do you think the response of the public would be to being ripped off and asked to bend over while they are ripped off some more? I'd guess they'd be pissed. A pissed off populace is the cause of and practically the definition of civil unrest. Does anyone here see the connection between a dirt poor population...and the inability of that population to resist the dictates of the government? And does ANYONE REALLY believe that the powers that be are interested in changing the way things are run...if they are making preparations to stomp out those who speak out against the way things are being run? Are we REALLY so sure about our support of the political system? Do YOU really feel empowered by your vote? Have you gone back through the last 3 or 4 decades and noticed how many politicians have claimed to be the "voice of change"? Have you gone back and noticed...that change has yet to come? What are we waiting for? What is there to support in a system that has no intention of defending our interests unless we choose to support its methods? And will we really continue to defend a system whose methods have failed again and again...when that very system has no intention of changing those methods? Will we acquiesce out of fear? Will we sit by idly in apathy while our chains are bound tighter? Are we really the sons and daughters of freedom? Will we really sit here and debate the end of choice and freedom with empty and endless opinions about something that no amount of debate or bitching will change? They're going to get their bailout. Because we're more afraid of change than we are of being fucked in the ass. They're going to get their way, because in the end...we have no say at all...and protesting will just end us up in jail, or dead. We don't unite, because we've fed on debate and division for so long...that coming together seems almost horrific and weak to us. Agreeing not to disagree seems a great defeat to our "individualism" and our egos. We've been bred to fear change, so they will get their way. They will get their bailout..and bitching won't do a damned thing to stop it. And trust me, it won't make us feel any better about it...because again..we will still deal with it..bitches of the state that we are. There was once a different America..one that had just awoken from a nightmare tyranny. We slept again...and now..the nightmare begins all over. This time, who knows what will save us? Perhaps it's not to late to turn away. I'm done with this. 080927 ... pollster so then are you voting for ralph? 080927 ... dafremen Noncompliance is the only vote that matters. 080927 ... dafremen It's not anywhere as insane as it's been made out to be. It's more insane than that. Here are excerpts from the bill: "SEC. 112. COORDINATION WITH FOREIGN AUTHORITIES AND CENTRAL BANKS. The Secretary shall coordinate, as appropriate, with foreign financial authorities and central banks to work toward the establishment of similar programs by such authorities and central banks. To the extent that such foreign financial authorities or banks hold troubled assets as a result of extending financing to financial institutions that have failed or defaulted on such financing, such troubled assets qualify for purchase under section 101." In other words..not only is the Secretary of the Treasury authorized to buy bad loans originating in our country, but in any country. "SEC. 115. GRADUATED AUTHORIZATION TO PURCHASE. The authority of the Secretary to purchase troubled assets under this Act shall be limited as follows: (1) Effective upon the date of enactment of this Act, such authority shall be limited to $250,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time. (2) If at any time, the President submits to the Congress a written certification that the Secretary needs to exercise the authority under this paragraph, effective upon such submission, such authority shall be limited to $350,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time. (3) If, at any time after the certification in paragraph (2) has been made, the President transmits to the Congress a written report detailing the plan of the Secretary to exercise the authority under this paragraph, unless there is enacted, within 15 calendar days of such transmission, a joint resolution described in subsection (c), effective upon the expiration of such 15-day period, such authority shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time." Any one time means just that..these amounts only limit the amount spent...PER INSTANCE. In other words..the Secretary can choose to do this again and again and again...without Congressional permission. Welcome to endless debt. You might also look up Federal property managers and the addition of "financial institutions as agents of the government." Welcome to the Big Brother's Fun Land. 081016 ... birdmad c'mon Oren... and i suppose that things like the Gramm-Leach-Billey act (AKA "Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999) and it's erosion of the safeguards keeping insurers, banks and securities trading firms as separate entities had nothing to do with it? That bit of de-regulation - at the behest of the banking industry, i should point out - stripped away a number of key safeguards put in place during the 1930's meant to keep deposit banks stably by separating them from investment banks I'm not gonna say that there were no glaring flaws in parts of the Community Reinvestment Act, but the notion that this whole downturn can be pinned on "teh darkies" is the province of these newly minted quasi-socialists who have been praying to the Free Market Jesus and the mantra of "Fuck the Poor" since the Reagan Era and are now queuing up on the dole lines with the same folks they were happy to squeeze while the squeezing was good. I hate to dehumanize myself and my fellow broke-ass economy wrecking darkies even further, but let me present this analogy: When one gambles on a horse-race and loses, does the truest fault lie with the horse for losing the race or with the bettor for making the bet in the first place? The financial institutions were more than willing to go out on the limb because there was profit potential in floating subprime loans as long as the larger economy remained reasonably dynamic. The loan-sharks smelled blood in the water, but failed to realize until it was far too late that some of it was their own. 081016 ... unhinged what scares me even more: dude's name is something gramm, the guy who pushed the deregulations through washington, is mccains economic advisor. is scared of becoming a literal starving musician when the recession really sets in 081016 ... birdmad Yep, the very same Phil Gramm, former Senator from TX and currently employed primarily by investment bank UBS, McCain's economic advisor and the same crotchwaffle who had the nerve to say that people concerned about the economy are "whiners" 081017 ... tourist I ask Myself, would the Nasis make the same mistakes twice? Google: FEMA Concentration Camps Then Ask yourselves if you Really Trust the People in Charge. Hell, even if the Election is only a couple of weeks off, the W isn't out of the control center yet. Can you say Martial Law boys and girls? There are standing Executive Orders in place that allow a President to basically suspend All Civil Rights in case of an Emergency. 081017 ... dafremen You might google "puke light" "Active denial system" and ("cops laugh" "rubber bullet") as well. Why are Army troops being trained to suppress civil unrest? Why isn't a rubber bullet wound or a tazering considered punishment without trial? Why do Obama and McCain share financial contributors that also happen to be bankers? (Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Citicorp, Lehman Brothers and UBS AG supported BOTH candidates.) The difference, it seems is that McCain gets his other support from the military, and Obama gets his other support from universities. But if bankers make their money off of LOANS, and both wars and college educations are paid for with LOANS...why would a banker care whether its a pro-education or a pro-war politician that ends up in power? Finally, why is it that we've been complaining about our government for decades, that our politicians have been fodder for comedians for the same amount of time..and yet we keep supporting the system and its abuses? 081017 what's it to you? who go blather from