drunk_driving_is_not_a_right somebody if you think it is, you probably have a drinking problem. 080914 ... () () 080914 ... unhinged my aunt was hit by a drunk driver with no insurance when i was a kid. she's on disability now because of that. laws are made to protect people. that's their fucking function. drunk_driving_is_not_a_crime if you don't know somebody who had their life irrevocably fucked up because of it. 080915 ... dafremen Drunk driving certainly isn't a right. It's a freedom. One that if it leads to the harm of another should come with appropriate consequences. So many people second guess the nature of life and its motions. How many have thought twice about entering a car drunk because of your aunt's experience? How many have thought twice about ridiculing the handicapped because of their experiences with your aunt? No experience is worthless or pointless and only people who REFUSE to look around see these tragedies as pointless. There IS a point to them. That's not to say that people should barrel into people with their cars, nor is it to say that people should drive drunk. It's to say...who are YOU...who am =I= to second guess the workings of the Universe/Flow/Tao/God/Allah/Whatever? Dahli Lama? Going with the flow? Only when it's a pleasant notion..right? 080915 ... daf Now that I've vented..let me be little more gentle with it. Everything is going as planned. And to accept our circumstances means just that. To go with it. To allow it to BE. Money and fines DO NOT affect human perspective as real experiences with dire consequences do. We learn remorse. We learn regret. We learn forgiveness. We learn the depths to which we are capable of handling the worst AND the best that life has to offer. 080915 ... unhinged dude, your stance on this is ridiculous. i've avoided it until now because people are allowed to hold ridiculous beliefs, but really. laws are made precisely because people do not see the consequences of their behavior. i do not prescribe to the philosophy that people should be able to have the freedom to whatever the fuck they want if that means they will hurt someone else. there are consequences to everything and jail exists for people who refuse to understand that. if you in freedom choose to get behind the wheel of a car and end up killing someone because of that you deserve to be locked up in a small room. people are stupid; they need to have those kinds of consequences imposed on them so that they might take a taxi the next time instead of trying to operate a damn vehicle. from what i can tell, driving a car is a complicated process that shouldn't be complicated further by being intoxicated. people don't have the goddamn right or freedom or whatever the fuck to potentially harm other fucking people. THAT IS THE POINT OF THE GODDAMN LAW i live in a state with one of the highest incidences of dui in america. driving around here at this time of night is a gamble. so it's some kind of fucking freedom that an elementary school principal get killed in a head on collision with a drunk driver in northern wisconsin. i'm sure if you told their family your ridiculous argument, they would feel better that their wife and child were dead. which could have easily been avoided if the stupid fuck wouldn't have had the freedom to make the the choice to get in his goddamn car and ram it into theirs. 'freedom isn't free' is ironically drunk right now 080915 ... dafremen And who made people...the dictators of people's actions? Who made the public the authority on what a person is? It wasn't me. It certainly wasn't the processes that birthed me. It wasn't my conscience..nor was it my natural inclinations. To say "that's the way it is" is to avoid the question...to avoid really digging into the root of man's authority over man. I wasn't born to be dictated to anymore than you were. And the fact that I allowed my day to day actions to be dictated by forces that don't have to live my life, probably don't want to...this seems ridiculous to me. Some teeming mass of egos and thought processes which from day to day generally don't have to live my life or deal with the consequences of the decisions that are made for me is what seems absurd to me. I have a conscience and so I don't go out of my way to harm others. And why should my day to day actions be dictated by the irresponsible actions of a) the few that DO harm others and b) those who are afraid of the irresponsible few? Who gave any of you that authority? By what right? The right of force? The right of fear to take hold, without my consent, over the course that my life takes? If I do no harm, why am I still forced to live in a world molded by fear..when I am unafraid? Who made YOU (society) God? It wasn't me. Do YOU know what it all means? Do you know where these random interactions would take us if left to their own devices? Do YOU think that human beings are doing such a great job with the authority that they've seized over human destiny? Why are we so afraid to let the world be what it is and would be? It makes no sense to me...and is the most absurd usurpation of the personal power given to me from the moment I first drew breath that I can imagine. We don't trust the public, but we let them rule our day to day lives. How ridiculous is that? My perspective is that of many who have come before me. The fact that I've latched onto a notion which falls outside of our common conditioning doesn't make it wrong. I'm not trying to convince you. I've simply been sowing seeds that are seldom sown..whereas yours are plastered across the papers and screens of society...spread mouth to ear from hour to hour across the face of our society. But you will not let my poor simple notions be. They must be drowned out...and apparently it must be done quickly. You have my reasons. You have my thoughts. I know yours...they've been repeated ad nauseum since I was a little boy. What more advantage does society need over these outcast ideas than the vast majority which hold them and the ability to spread them across the face of the human race? 080916 ... dafremen "What more advantage does society need over these outcast ideas than the vast majority which hold them and the ability to spread them across the face of the human race?" Should read: What more advantage does society need over these outcast ideas than the vast majority which hold OPPOSING VIEWS and the ability to spread them across the face of the human race? 080916 ... jeff thomerson "And who made people...the dictators of people's actions? Who made the public the authority on what a person is?" DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY. Get it now? No? "...That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." - Declaration of Independence Now I know you have the right to run your mouth. But just because you can doesn't mean you should. 080916 ... dafremen The United States isn't a democracy. It's a Constitutional Republic. The notion of majority rule was deemed an abomination that would subject 49% to the whims of 51%. In order to avoid this, a basic set of Rights were set aside to hopefully ensure that the few would have some recourse against the brute force of the many. Was it a step in the right direction? Certainly. Was it enough? Obviously not. Our form of government supposedly operates with the consent of the governed. I do not grant my consent to have the fruits of my labor spent on war. It is spent on war anyway. I don't grant my consent to be stopped and questioned by armed police officers whether I have done something or not. I can be stopped anyway. I don't grant my consent to the use of a governing body and the force it wields to pursue of what I consider the selfish motives of others, quite often against the best interests of the governed. Our governing body is used in just such a manner. I'll be putting together a collection of videos documenting such abuses of power. And it all begins with..LAW that is allowed to regulate behavior and decide who is right and who is wrong. I find it really strange that we don't trust the public, because we claim that people are "prone to reckless acts." But we DO trust people who are put in positions of power, armed with the tools to control us...because..apparently these people, because they are special and different are NOT prone to reckless acts. I find it very strange indeed that we find powerful groups of people less dangerous than not so powerful individuals. I also find it strange that we think that jobs which offer power without consequence, will attract the BEST that society has to offer. Instead of people who are seeking power...without consequences. Strange indeed. 080916 ... zeke roger: i am symphathetic to the notion of self-rule at the individual level. it would be nice. but i do not trust others to use my standards for self-limiting. as a consequence, i would expect to be witness to or the object of harm or unfairness eventually. our form of governance is an attempt to limit those events. your point seems to be that our system merely institutionalizes the harm and unfairness. i will admit that, but also maintain that a balance is maintained between the cost (loss of individual liberty!) and the benefits (protection from arbitrary harm and capricious unfairness). has there ever been an example of such self determination that did not result in a junta (ala somalia, darfour, haiti, etc.). somehow, somebody always seems to resort to getting what they want by hitting somebody else with a stick. others jump in on both sides and then most of the crops get trampled. after that, nothing is fair for a long time. all animals are equal (but some animals are more equal than others). did you ever read lord of the flies? i really am sympathetic to your complaints, but that does not overwhelm my fear. 080922 ... ivyducktwilightseto Drinking and driving isn't a big deal... until it is. How many times have I watched a friend new(er) to their drinking experience grab their keys and head for the door... "Don't worry, I'm good at driving drunk!"... Too many. I was really good at driving drunk too. This is a practice in society that needs to be educated more properly and in-perspective. Don't you ever consider the dimensions of your vehicle, barrelling down the road at 70 mph, and the possible destructive power of that mass of steel and materials? Your car might as well be a giant gun, because it can be used in much the same negative fashion. With that said it is obvious that having alcohol in your blood while using it is simply inane. We'll be rid of this activity around the time we get ahold of that whole world peace thing, I bet. 080923 ... dafremen Education is key. When we resort to force, we teach that might makes right..proliferating just the sort of "someone with bigger guns comes along" scenario that z's understandable fear speaks of. We have to start somewhere. Why not with ourselves instead of with everyone else? By not living domination, violence OR fear we being the re-education process that produces better people for the next generation. 080923 what's it to you? who go blather from