honesty_is_brutal misstree is it really better to be nice and keep your mouth shut, or hurt someone's feelings and tell them the truth? whenever i try to answer this to myself, the word "depends" pops up like dandelions... thoughts on where borders lie? 030828 ... Dafremen Heheheh you WOULD blather this. Sags and their foot in mouth (or is it foot in face?) disease. I say ZING em lady. If the truth hurts THAT bad, it must be time for them to work on reality a bit instead of hiding from it. 030828 ... Teenage Jesus Hmmm. I don't know about that one. OK, yes I do. I disagree. The sparing of feelings is a gracious act. Does it help in the long run? Probably not. But we might be dead in five minutes. But I don't think Sags are capable of this. It's not that they're cruel; just, let's say, quickly honest. 030828 ... misstree dangit, meant to respond to these and forgot... okay, i can see both points, but i also think this isn't as either/or as that... for example, if someone is in the habit of talking out of their ass when the subject of, lessay, types of cows and the qualities thereof becomes a subject, do you tell them flat out that they're speaking out of their rear? do you try to do it politely, maybe even in a caring or subtle manner, which may not work? do you throw enough hints at them that they might get smacked in the face with one? do you try to instruct them in the proper way of raising kobe beef? or do you verbally bitch-slap them until they run home crying to figure out what they're talking about before they open their mouth? or just swat them on the nose like a misbehaving puppy, and keep doing it until they understand? and ya, i may be a sag, and ya, i may have hoof-in-mouth syndrome (dang centaurs), but as a survival mode i learned to keep my mouth shut unless i know i'm right. of course, i'm always right, but that's besides the point. i can usually manage to go 5 minutes without insulting someone unintentionally or making an ass of myself. 030902 ... LC Honesty is a shield you can always hide behind. The cowards way out, all dressed up in bravado to look like a spine. It take no strength of will to point and laugh at those who are incorrect, and a cruel sense of humor at best to smack them around with the truth. I lie to the liars and am honest with those who are honest. Of course I use honesty like a cloak, to decieve and incite. All vodka induced typos aside, there is no better or worse here. Unless what you are really asking about is what is more socially acceptable. In that case ramming someone's ignorance into a rude oriface is definately frowned upon. 030903 ... minnesota_chris the phrase "but it's true!" does not excuse you from being an ass. I realize that's not what you were talking about, ms tree. 030903 ... misstree lc, anything can be a shield you hide behind, lies the shield of those who do not value the connection between souls. some cowards may hide behind their "honesty," but there is more than one way to wield it, and cowardice has no place in such a query. pointing and laughing is Valueless Communication, for the most part; smacking someone with the truth is, at times, the only way to Show it to them; i know tarot decks that practice it well. i agree to being honest with all who are honest; but lying to liars compounds deciet, and while truth can be twisted and tilted to show an infinite set of images, outright lies should be avoided unless absolutely needed. and decieving and inciting; to what end? isn't that the source of this conflict, the means and the ends, what does the equation balance to? decieving someone to truth, tricking them into betterment as the coyote sages, could be considered a Noble cause, but for mere amusement, how is that better than using honesty as cover for brutality? and if you knew anything about me, you'd know that i don't give a fig what's socially acceptable. the rest of my writing carries myriad examples; for once i'll leave that horse corpse alone. and chris, to rephrase an earlier query, could there not be times when "but it's true!" could be a noble cry, when paired with "and you need to realize it!"? ach. too tired, too awed by felicitous ironic events to argue properly. 030903 ... minnesota_chris "but it's true!" is a good followup to "cocaine is killing you", but a bad followup to "you're ugly" or "you're fat." I guess, the things that shouldn't be said, well, shouldn't be said... 030908 ... Lemon_Soda My Dear MissTree, Your question is difficult to answer because there is no one answer for it. This is no "true or false" inquiery but a trist into the land of "maybe", a place everyone should be familiar with. Morally standing, I say tell them what they want to hear. People talk out of their ass because nobody has kissed it in a long time so they need to make it more of a mouth. I've found the fastest way to shut them up is agree with them and compliment them on their intelligence. Their own internal guilt usually gets them to insult themselves right after and indeed declare they really had no idea. As a standard (if your into those sorts of things)say the nicest thing you can think of or nothing at all.(thanx mom!)Either will end the conversation. If it doesn't work, wash rinse, repeat. Just a little more patience for this tactic. As a truth, honesty is the best policy(thanx dad!)How you say it should reflect your feelings tword the person, not their idea. Thats covered in what you say. Short, sweet, and to the point. Unless their willing to except your opinion, however you put it, you still stand to hurt their feelings. But atleast with this tactic you know it was their choice to be insulted, not your choice to insult them. As personal practice, fuel dreams. If his greatest fantasy is to "know about cow breeding" than let him pretend he does. He'll shutup eventually and next week he'll be a "duck sex expert". (This is a good way to tune your bullshitometer, kiddies). He's happy at the time and you get the useful tool of being able to tell when he's full of it. The bonus to this approach is you know that either way it really doesn't matter and your own counsel is the only one you have to live with where as they have to live with not actually knowing anything and that their intelligence-won popularity is based on a falsehood. Or, you can just smack um and decide not to be around them anymore. Forceful ejection from personal universe is harsh but it solves the problem right quick. 030908 ... realistic optimist great answer, lemon soda, and i must say, that i laughed quite out loud at your talking out of their ass analogy. quite apt, witty, and funny. 031009 ... stork daddy jeesh are you kidding? i don't even tell the truth to myself! 031009 ... unhinged no, it doesnt have to be. if it is, maybe it is better kept inside. 'i was afraid to talk to you about this because you said the other day you didnt need any more friends' when i said that it wasnt meant in a hostile way. it was just my honest truth. what we had, did together was not a friendship. ignoring me because you knew things wouldnt go your way isnt a friendship either. so many contradictions, maybe it was a mistake. maybe i dont have time for being pushed and pulled in whatever direction you think is appropriate at the time. maybe i regret my choice to kick you out of my life completely. maybe i would regret allowing you to remain. any regret points to something done unskillfully. i still have no skill in being honest with others about my heart. maybe i_miss_you , am still sad over it all because i hate being alone. why should i be alone? why do they always run? 140628 ... unhinged (and then i had a few beers and told him exactly why i dont want to spend time with him...unskillful and brutal. i'm_an_asshole ) 140629 what's it to you? who go blather from