miniver I must be getting tired of things, now, I guess -- more than ever. I'm tired of dishonesty, and falseness, and superficiality. Doesn't mean I'm never dishonest, or false, or superficial myself -- or that I think I am -- it just means that I'm tired of myself too. I would like all of us to admit to the silly, obvious, contrived things that we do, and to our reasons for doing them. Arrogance. Jealousy. Insecurity. Vanity. Pettiness. Competitiveness. Loneliness. I would like us to, at least, admit that to ourselves. I would like us all to try to be better than we are, in this respect.

I don't know what else I can do, though, really. I don't know if what I'm doing now is the right thing to do. Is anything?

Am I entirely wrong about this?

It makes me angry with people when they try to use certain behaviors to get something out of me, or out of anyone else. It's like...pouting to get candy. It is manipulative. It is obvious. It makes it difficult for me to be compassionate, or trusting, or even attentive.

I am a shy, reserved, sensitive sort of person -- so much so that I would rather not have anyone thinking anything remotely bad about me (so much so that it really hurts if someone does or is). But this thing is strong enough to make me cold and mean.
kendra blah blah. 001201
silentbob i am obsessive, annoying, and i jump on people after i interpret certain things they say in twisted perceptions and dont give them a chance to explain themselves before i trample all over them.

i wish too much that all persons on here were my real friends, that on any given occassion i could call up any one of you and we could go to movies and concerts and stuff.

To me, honesty is relative. maybe someone is being true to themselves and everyone else. but you dont percieve them that way. who are they fooling then?

Perception is deadly. opinions are too. judgment is a knife in a back. criticism is a whip to the shins.
selfloathing is spawned from these weapons. selfcriticism is worse than any criticism anyone(real, or through blue electronic message boards) can give someone. once a criticism is made, "true" or "false", a door is open. depending on that person, and their level of sensitivity, the measure of how much it affects them begins. some may say, "Oh youre right, i'll change that, thanks." others take it personally and just think, "Great...the person i thought i was doesnt fake...what do i do now?" and selfloathing ensues. im not saying its right. im jsut saying that is what happens. and maybe you realized this at the time. but if you hurt at all its because you didnt keep your own sensitivity level in check from the beginning when you risked the level of others.
i dont know if my point is clear. so what do you think?
miniver To me, TRUTH is relative. Honesty is just honesty – stating that it is relative is missing the point. If a person is beingtrue to themselves and everyone else”, then they are being honest. But, if someone doesn’t perceive them as being that way, then that someone just doesn’t perceive them that way. And saying so is being true to HIS/HERSELF and everyone else. It is that OTHER person being honest

Again, it’s the whole relativity of truth that creates the conflict. Setting up a logical premise like honesty is just another brilliant, beautiful way we humans have found to deal with the uncertaintyit is science, you guys! It really is, isn’t it? It sets up a humanly-universal system by which we might all appreciate and justly compare our own thoughts and opinions. But, it isn’t a reality, I guess. It’s a scienceit’s atool” (as some might say) that we use for a specific purpose, and with certain accepted axioms that allow us to be justified in making the comparison. (Apples and apples, you see, instead of apples and oranges). The science doesn’t work if we don’t follow the rules. It becomes less beautiful. It loses meaning. It falls apart. Experiments get tainted. Results forged.

But, I get carried away (a new theory!!). The point is this:

Anyone’s perceptions of a thing may be drastically different from anyone else’s perceptions of that same thing. That is the relativity oftruth”; and, I admit, that relativity is a challenge, but it is such a clever one that I really can’t complain (not too much, anyway). But, that relativity is also the part that makes honesty so invaluable: Perhaps I have too much faith in people, but I choose to think that, regardless of the uncertainty or lack of ultimate, universal truth, people CAN (and maybe even should) be honest with one another about their own perceptions of a thing -- however different, howeverwrongthose perceptions may seem to anyone else. THAT is honesty, to me. It is not waiting until you think your perceptions match everyone else’s, or any one person's. And, in my opinion, it is not offering only those perceptions which will make people like you more, or which will make you appear a certain way, or will get you a certain thing. I think that is an unhealthy practiceand I think that suppression is what ends up “wheedling” it’s way out into our behaviors and acts, instead of being frank about itself in the first place.

I guess I just don’t believe in the platitudeif you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything at all”. I think it is dishonest. I think that that person is hiding results which don’t fit his/her hypothesiswhich is bad science. I think good science -- good honesty -- is hard work and pain, but I also think it is immensely worthwhile.
daxle it's not an issue of whether what you have to say will make people feel good or bad
it's a matter of to what purpose you are saying things
actions result in consequences
by sticking with telling everyone everything you think no matter what, you are ignoring the fact that consequences matter, and that you may be hurting people with no real purpose other than feeling better about yourself
so that it what I call selfish, not honest
miniver I was thinking that there are SO many more consequences than we are aware, and they matter a whole lot more than we give them creditand that it may prove even more worthwhile to work through and understand those consequences, than to try to avoid creating any difficult consequences at all because we fear them, or because we automatically assume that nothing can or should be done about them. By sticking with telling everyone what you honestly think, no matter what, you are not ignoring the fact that consequences matteryou are just, hopefully, deciding to DEAL with the consequences; to accept that there are just as bad (in fact, in my opinion, WORSE) consequences to keeping what you really think inside.

I still think a person could do a much better job of it than me. Actually, I think I could do a much better job of it than me. We, none of us, are very practiced at this trade.

I’m glad that the mad-at-miniver blatherers voiced their honest opinions. I am thinking about those opinions. To be honest, some I think are silly, some obtuse, some completely missing their own pointsome thoughtful, and insightful, and maybe even (a little bit - hah) accurate. But, indeed, I am immensely thankful to have that option of knowing what people honestly think and judging for myself.
lovers lament there was one person who, in your opinion miniver, just typed to watch himself type. after reading over your extensively long blathers, i can't imagine why you didn't mention your own name in that criticism. your criticism could have been constructive, even fun perhaps, but you took it in the wrong direction. perhaps you were misconstrued by some blatherers or in some statements. perhaps you didn't assert your point as well as you would've liked. all of those considerations aside, i still believe that your motives were not completely pure as you claim them to be. blathercriticisms was not an exercise in truth but an exercise in malice. it had no scientific base whatsoever, except perhaps a study of how far one can push another before anarchy eventually ensues.
but i'm sure that my opinion does not matter. your ego is too pliable to break, your heart to cold to open.
so, i guess i'm sorry for wasting your time.
lovers lament sorry
your heart *too* cold to open
silentbob now that i think about it, miniver

you seem more right than you did before.

my frame of mind now: People shouldn't be afraid to be honest.

i think being honest is one thing. telling someone everything wrong about them and constantly making them feel like shit is another.
i'm not talking about you, i'm talking about someone else that i know.

Honesty can be good. But in all honesty, if an honest person can't be honest with themselves and yells at other people for being honest to the point that those people are afraid to be honest with that person....well damn that well really sucks doesnt it?
rhuube The girl at dinner that walks by lookin all good and never says hi 020402
iheartyou AKA BRIAN who doesn't say hi at dinner and then yells at me 020402
Rosie I too am tired of people being dishonest. You can make all the excuses in the world for arrogance, lies, competitiveness, but it all boils down to the same boring lack of self esteem on the other person's part. I have had the habit my whole life of telling all, all my successes, all my failures, because I consider myself as having an apt amount of self-esteem for making my life "public knowledge". The way you must look at it is this: how bad must that person feel if they have to lie and emphasize their success stories? The effort which goes into this type of behaviour is in inverse relation to their self-esteem levels. You can only feel sorry and pity and give yourself a pat on the back for being true to yourself, and being strong enough to be true to others. 020907
Q Oz was a place, not a meanie! 060118
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