truth_vs_beauty j_blue politics of knowledge vs knowledge we could debate the consequences of possibilites or we could verify possibilities to say that a thing is so is not to imply why it is was i born as i am? am i aberrant? do i think i am? does somebody else? these are not the same questions, so lets try to be intelligent and not confuse them 010221 ... dB 1) No. Your body replaces every molecule that it is comprised of every 7-10 years. 010221 ... dB 2) Either everyone is, or no one is. It's al dependant on how you see yourself. 010221 ... dB 3) If you think about it enough to ask the question, yes. 010221 ... dB 4) Does somebody else think you are? It depends. If they think you are, for example "witty", Then yes, but that is their opinion. If they think you "ARE" in that sense, that is for them to decide. I have not decided if you "are" yet, as to me you are only words on a screen. My universe is surmise or hearsay. For all I know you may not exist. Were these the kind of answers you were expecting? 010221 ... acoe this is really stupid and worthless. A great idea, but it goes nowhere. Everywhere. Which is the same thing. Try something else. 010221 ... sleepless There is no competition between the two. If someone tells the truth, that is beautiful. It is only the people who are ugly (ugly in heart, thought, word and deed - not in appearance) who tell unnecessary lies. And unnecessary lies are the worst. 010222 ... j_blue truth is not always beauty if you had to choose between happiness and knowledge, which would it be? this arguement is bigger thant the two words 010222 ... Wrong no dB is intellegent. more so than me, hit me, cos I can't beat ya. your a traveler, you know your stuff . squish me I'm not orange, find me, the hot and cold game. I was purple u were orange. Vas ist Das? 1 problem ! 010423 ... unhinged you might say that on first examination. someone finally tells you the truth as in "i've never really loved you...these past five months haven't really meant much to me" and that seems horribly ugly at first. but on closer examination you see the beauty-- at least you only wasted five months instead of a lifetime. every truth contains beauty. just look closer. 010423 ... dB I'm not an intelligent man. I just look at things objectively. That and I read too many books. But I believe the topic at hand is Truth/Beauty. Truth, youth, beauty, fame, fortune, red hair, no hair, innocence, saturday, and a bottle of pills. That's all I have to say about that. 010423 ... silentbob i find truth beautiful 010424 ... unhinged i guess i see the real point of this argument. so me and silentbob say that truth is beautiful but what we were really asked was is ALL truth the same as ALL beauty. are they the same in every way? and i don't think any of us will ever agree on this. truth is a solid concrete thing. we all have the same concept of truth. the truth is the thing that was actually done as opposed to the thing that appears to have been done. truth is the right in all things. truth is the way things really are. i think we all agree on that part of our little argument. the conditional part that makes it a perpetual arguement is one's definition of beauty. i think many of us share the same aspects of this definition but the total definition is different for all of us. we grew up in different places at different times with different parents and different lives. easter dinner, and fall trees, and playing in christmas eve mass, and her face, and the pounding chords and crooked smiles of my boys ivet, and the unconditional love me and my brother have for each other, the friends that brought me to these pages. that is all beautiful to me. but even in my own definition, those things are beautiful in different ways. to me truth is beauty. the rightness of nature is everything beautiful. there is no separation between the two. 010424 ... Miner Beauty is what you make of it, anything and everything is beautiful if seen through the "right eyes", what I find beautiful, another somewhere would find repulsive, just because I think an object, animal, person or event isn’t beautiful, and in some cases even horrendous, it doesn’t mean that another person wont see a kind of beauty in it. Unfortunately truth follows so closely, so easily twisted by perspective and personal bias. Two people could see the same event, and both could give a report, that at the same time was truthful, yet different. We make our own truths, and we see different things as beautiful or repulsive, you can’t define either, both take on new meanings and are entirely dependant on the person applying them. 010425 ... dB How can you associate beauty with truth? Not all truth is beautiful. If a man is convicted of killing another, and there is indesputable proof that he did it, that is not beautiful. If the man who killed is centenced to death, then it is even less beautiful. I'm not arguing the death penalty or anything, but I feel there is no beauty in one person killing another. Beauty is something that is great. Truth is absolute. Weather the truth is good or bad, that doesn't matter. What matters is the truth itself. Without truth, what do we have left. 010425 ... Miner I agree that not all truth is beautiful, I very much doubt anybody ever found everything beautiful, but even the sickest things in this world, to a sick few anyway, are beautiful. To me pain is about as far removed from beauty as you can get, there are murderers and psychos out there though who delight in the causing of pain, and find their own form of beauty in it, or the inflicting of it. As for truth, truth isn’t quite absolute. You witness something, and while informing somebody else on the details of the event, either through lack of, or incomplete facts, you can cause the listener to misinterpret what really happened. In doing so your telling the truth, at least the truth as you see it, but depending on how complete your knowledge of the facts is, and without actually telling a lie, the truth takes a new turn or meaning, its still the truth to you, even if the events that happened did so in a slightly different fashion. What we have left is our trust in our friends, and the belief and hope that enough people in this world are on our side to help us get through life in a decent manner. 010426 ... DannyH you invoke the egotistical fallacy of equating truth with your imperfect perception of it. If you acknowledge that your truth is seperate from anothers you imply there is a third thing - the actual truth which you both perceive differently. 010512 ... st3fan Like a door open and close at the same time ? 010512 ... kx21 Beauty dies if truth unveils... 010512 ... kx21 Fools like to fool around... Wisemen act blur... 010512 ... kx21 The Beauty of The_Truth:- Spoken yet unspoken and Unspoken yet spoken... 010512 ... Miner I agree with you that the first truth, which is what actually happened, is the base point for our perceived views on truth. But not everything has an absolute truth; many truths are dependant entirely on the people involved. As soon as you equate all the variables of life into an event, everything starts to move into a large gray area. You could say it was true that person A hit person B, but when it comes down to the reasons for it, there is no absolute truth, only the inadequate perceptions of those involved. 010513 ... TinKa Which comes first, truth or beauty? which is more important? I say beauty, if you can love yourself and everything in your world then truth isn't a question right? So if you do a bad thing then, you are to suffer for it and to deny to truth to yourself is also to hate yourself. Would I be right in saying that beauty comes first or would it be a close nockout final? . 010524 ... Moe ..its funny. truth and beauity walk throught the same subjective door. Its all in what you see. Its the making of ones own reality... 010527 what's it to you? who go blather from