pro_choice Ms. Obvious see "euphemism" 080627 ... random observer and is "pro_life" any less a euphemism? because the same people willing to kill to ensure that some babies get born don't much seem to give a tapdancing shit for those babies once they're no longer wrapped up in a uterus. 080627 ... epitome of incomprehensibility This reminds me of an Intro to Psychology class on the subject of surveys. Survey questions, the teacher said, should be neutral, otherwise the wording can affect the results. The example went something like this. The biased ones were "Do you believe women should have the right to choose their own reproductive destiny?" and "Do you think unborn children should be murdered?" instead of just "Are you for or against abortion?" Anyway, abortion isn't murder because murder is something legally defined. Killing someone isn't necessarily murder--it could be in a situation such as self-defense or war. I don't think war is morally right OR sensible most of the time, but killing a person in combat is not murder. Killing what might become a person is morally complicated. I will risk sounding more conservative than I usually am and say that I don't like the idea... but that's not to say there aren't reasons, and I don't believe in making abortion against the law. Phew. Okay, here's something to lighten the mood. I saw a guy in my class wearing an orange T-shirt that said "Pro-Joyce". I want one like that! 080628 ... minnesota_chris how about "abortion tolerant?" 080628 ... flowerock (gets a little angry sometimes) pro choice, pro life, anti abortion, pro abortion... what evs. I am pro information and transformation. I want to see nurses and doctors who know what they are talking about, who know what each form of birth control actually does and how it affects our bodies. I want to see doctors and nurses who consider these effects when they offer these pills or injections or devices. I want to see doctors and nurses who inform women who are considering abortion about the procedures and their after effects. What the drugs will do and how they will feel physically afterwards and how it might take years for their hormones to re balance and that they might get painful cysts and irregular crazy menstrual cycles. I want doctors and nurses who can tell me that there are things I can do to help my body heal and re balance afterwards. I want doctors and nurses who know WHY "I should take extra calcium" when on certain birth control, because TUMS antacids ARE NOT good sources of calcium and are awful things in general... when I know more than the nurse about my calcium absorption and estrogen then why am I trusting her to inject me with shit that makes me feel like a ghost? too apathetic to do anything about anything, not wanting to live but not alive enough to do anything about it. I want doctors and nurses who are compassionate enough to really consider their word choice. After the procedure I asked "can I see what came out?" they said "no, we already threw it in the garbage" and then explained that it can be traumatic for women to see what came out... as if hearing that it was simply tossed in the garbage is any better. I am "pro_choice" I have made choices too. I don't regret those choices, but I don't think I'd go there again, it's not really something you want to do again and again any way. before the firstime I had the worst nightmares of a little girl so full of fear and rage, she screamed at me "why are you doing this to me!?" and she ripped me apart, it was so bloody. I don't think I've ever remembered such violent dreams. I wonder now if the procedures scarred my uterus, if it can still support life. It probably can. I'm not trying to reproduce right now, but my new birth control is simply not to have sex with anyone I wouldn't share that experience of creating life with if it happened again. I believe in the "right to choose" but I think we deserve to be informed as well. I also think that Planned_Parenthood is there to control population and discourage "poor people" from reproducing. they basically hand out birthcontrol like candy to under_informed women and play on their fear and desire for reproductive_freedom making them sick and infertile, and the nurses will be sweet and kind and so loving, smiling and warm hands, but that's because they don't know either, they're being played with too. 140216 ... e_o_i I started reading this page and came to the Intro to Psychology thing; I thought, "Oh, that's funny - one of my profs used the exact same example - must be some sort of stock example in that field" - and then I realized I'd written it. Well, I don't think abortion is a huge moral evil, but it can be a sad experience. Not had that myself, but I've seen that result in others. Does it have to be? I don't know. There are many things about life I don't know. A funny thought comes to mind, though: the same conservative types who want to avoid abortion at all costs don't like people having sex with their own gender. Hey. Easy way for people to have sex and not get pregnant, you know. So many people seem to be either gay or straight. I suppose they were born that way. (Agreeing with what fr wrote about more information about birth control, esp. different types. Same with population: from my view it seems the best to give people information and let them make their own choices. No one_child policy, no "quiverfull" quixoticism. And there's always the risk that once you make more people they'll make up their own words.) 140216 ... flowerock I don't think it has to be a sad experience. I talked to a few women in the waiting room. There were two rooms, one right before the hospital room with couches and pillows and journals you could write in... this room had some women bawling their eyes out and other sitting bored and indifferent. We all talked, it was kind of neat, bonding with strangers. One was a young girl, about 14 I think, she seemed genuinely alright. She had sex with her boyfriend and was 14, wasn't ready for a baby and felt like it just made sense... other girls felt pressured or judged by family. In the room after the procedure there were super comfy recliners we had to sit in for a while to be sure we didn't bleed too much. Everyone seemed much calmer in that room, the drugs might have helped... what ever they used made the clouds on the ceiling glow and swirl... It's no necessarily sad but it does affect hormones and our bodies know that the baby was "lost" I think, the same way mothers who don't breast feed sometimes get depressed, tricking their bodies into thinking the baby died in birth. Just my thoughts, I am not sure if it's true or a "fact". I felt sad for other reasons, that I felt lied to (told that birth control would "work" and then it failed) and for being in an unhealthy relationship to begin with... I felt relieved to not be planning for a baby in my incredibly chaotic and unhealthy life at the time. 140216 what's it to you? who go blather from