do_you_believe_in_time nonlucid believe that time does truly pass, that the past is more than a dream, the future more than something which will always never come (and when it comes, it's the present, so it's irrelevant and merely a coincidence that it looks somewhat like the past) believe in your childhood, some important event that happened ten years ago, memories which have faded to memories of memories actually happened believe you are not a robot (painstakingly crafted) with implanted memories, scars, into a world that sometimes remembers you, affirms your existence in the past, that you left traces as you moved through the dimension believe that the world will continue tomorrow, and that you will likely be there - if you are not it will still be there, you will have existed, changed something transient but substantial 040702 ... :) s_e_e_d_s___o_f___l_i_g_h_t what_goes_around_comes_around... 040702 ... once again I believe that things happen one after the other... or maybe they happen all at once and we simply invented time so we could watch. I believe that maybe if we were not here to watch... things would not happen, or maybe they would happen all at once... in a_point_in_time... tentatively... i believe. "Time is a drug, too much of it will kill you." But not enough? maybe that would kill you too. I believe in the idea of time. 040702 ... puredream do you believe in forever? 040702 ... nonlucid perhaps cause and effect (if everything happens at once) are merely conventions, time travel and paradoxes are meaningless exercises in confusion - whatever happens happens happens happens and I cannot kill my grandmother because I did not (will not, have not, do not), so it's pointless. what_if doesn't exist, merely what_is does forever matter if it cannot be fathomed? Can it? 040702 ... JdAwG If I told you I didn;t believe in forever, would you show it to me? 040703 ... Lila Pause secret lover's business 040703 ... sleepy* I believe forever and never are the same thing. I don't believe time is linear. although I may change my mind tomorrow. 040703 ... once again I believe in forever. and of course, I believe in now. 040703 ... kookaburra wow this is funny. i had just said how i dont believe in time, and here it is! 040703 ... nonlucid do_you_believe_in_coincidence 040703 ... magicforest I'd like to believe in it, but I do not. It makes a rough mark on my sanity, but time for me is not only somewhat cyclic or drifting, but also jumpy and fleeting. 040704 ... sameolme I believe that existence is mysterious, and time seems to be a mysterious aspect of existence. Perhaps time is a demension such as space and we can only inhabit one moment just as we can only occupy one space. One space at one time? 040704 ... pete I believe that we may have memories from another time that someone else experienced. Perhaps cellular memory isn't true, but it sure is attractive. And I am more than a bit animistic. 040704 ... z being that believe is a verb, this question is redundant in a particularly self referential way. the statement " i do not believe in time" is therefore a tautology because all verbs operate across time. even "is" implys time in the negative (was). this question is a semantic quagmire. however, see: sidereal 040705 ... . you're so smart z. 040705 ... dudeinanigloo Z, just thought I'd point out that "was" is not a negative verb form. It is the past tense form of the verb "to be," and the pronouns "I, he, she, one, and who" can take it. yep... 040706 ... u24 how do you define time? I believe that each moment we experience takes place in a different point in a sequence, whether that counts as time, or whether time is just the way we percieve this sequence, I don't know. I agree with monadh; we inhabit one space and one time, at a time. (grin) and also I agree with nonlucid, the future cannot be perceived until is has passed into the present, and once we perceive the present it is past, therefore the existance of future and present is questionable. Of course, the past is only experienced through our memory of it, and is therefore a flawed perception (schemas, and all that) In short, once we start questioning, the only thing we can be assured of is the fact that we perceive something; the rest is an attempt to categorise our perceptions, and, given that we don't know for certain what we perceive, our categorisation is, and always will be flawed. I don't think we can ever know the nature of reality for sure. Our knowledge of the universe is limited by our ability to perceive it, so any conclusion will only be true for humans (and the machines we create to perceive for us). 040707 ... u24 not monadh, sameolme. Sorry. 040707 ... z diai: i did not state that it is a negative form, only that is implicitly implys is not. was is just a handy way to get to is not indirectly. it inherently includes is not. i tend to skip steps in formal proofs (it got me in trouble in geometry). 040707 ... sameolme I believe in oregano. 040707 ... minnesota_chris it periodically pokes me in the ribs, interrupting my reverie 040710 ... zeke time we share and sharing we become potently bested over the blossom and heady scent is the cart wheel driven and in passing the wheel stains earth churning past and future mixed and living so we dream life unstoppable and glorious splendid wheel rolls on dirt and air mix and dry waiting 040712 ... shower singer I love tautologies and redundancies I live for contradictions and hypocrisies I revel in the simultaneous truth of opposites I love the way language makes fools of those who try to own it. 040713 ... minnesota_chris me too. Language loves to bitch slap. 040714 ... scott adams dogbert: do you see "time" as a sequence of discrete events or simply a line of perception through infinite possibilities? dilbert: i see "time" as more of a magazine. dogbert: you know these moments we have together -- we really must have them less often. dilbert: ask me about "life." 040714 ... z "time hath, my lord, a wallet at his back, werein he puts alms for oblivion. great sized monster of ingratitudes." william shakespear 040714 ... pete in reply to: do you believe in forever? (040702) i'd have to say that in forever, there is no time... 040714 ... hsg one infinitely complex moment. only one truth. time doesnt unfold to us, our consciousness becomes closer to witnessing reality with complete accuracy. what is real has never changed. our perception of time is like when the sun used to revolve around the earth. but it never did and time never IS real. it only was thought to be real. the sun is the center. consciousness evolves thru illumination of a room which already exists. objects are not born as u shine ur flashlight on them and they dont die. 040924 ... u24 seddon has a good book on time ("Time: A philosophical treatment). recommended. 061028 ... Christ without the cross "I believe that things happen one after the other... or maybe they happen all at once and we simply invented time so we could watch." I like that. That is a cool way to look at time. And hsg. i love the way you say things. I think i agree 061028 ... z see: the_wisdom_of_all_modes 070130 ... high viscosity time may be purley a human construct, designed only to measure existence. see: the_destruction_of_time 070130 ... Samuel Beckett "the danger is in the neatness of identification" 070130 ... hsg i keep finding, as i believe u 2 will, that we have the ability 2 make things real, individually & collectively. 4a simple explanation i use d pyramid. if time & reality R @ d base then basically your I @ d top projects reality from a place of awakeness onto a screen (base) that can then be embodied 4d soul 2 experience. there is a point outside the pyramid from which u c d whole process. in so doing, u again remember an old timeless truth. you know that you are infinite. u can still work out quite a detailed plan as you choose. its depth & length of apparent time can be extended forever minus one. simply put, u cannot dream 4ever w/o at least breif moments of sobriety. more l8r peace 070131 ... pete I do, but it is, of course, all relative (hence the statement above that in forever there is no time). 070131 ... hsg a_course_in_miracles can help one undo the fragmentation of truth called time. all there is, is one_holy_instant. 070131 ... nom in what? 070131 ... . It's fun to rationally dissect things such as "time", but are you really ready to forsake measurement in minutes, hours, weeks, and years? If you don't believe in time, don't ask anyone's age, and never make plans for tomorrow. Too much trouble? Maybe there's something to this "time" thing, after all! 070131 ... .. sure there is. thus it was invented. create plans for tomorrow only in the certainty of its forthcoming. the only time is now but you are right in that we are not ready. 070131 what's it to you? who go blather from