the_meaningfulness_of_life Ptolemy DCLVIII Given that as much could be said about this* as could be said about the_meaninglessness_of_life, it will be interesting to see if people prefer blathe under the negative or the positive. (Not clear, that ... but you know what I mean, I should hope.) * or that. 060212 ... imasparrow a bird's shadow. patterns in nature. right place, right time. glamourbombs. 060212 ... z meaning is a human construct. 060212 ... falling_alone how many can say they've found this? 060212 ... 284eus9gj94wtc meanNess, maybe, but meanIng? hard to be certain where that comes from. 060212 ... imasparrow what the bleep do we know? 060212 ... sirflaccid finding those, in life, that can hurt you with every moment they're not a part of your's, but choose not to do so. 060213 ... Ptolemy DCLVIII I agree with ~z~ that much - or even most - of life's meaning is that which we construct, perhaps unwittingly, out of other meanings. However, I do not believe that we synthesize our original sense(s) of meaning(s) from sheer nothingness. I do believe there are meanings greater than ourselves scattered about the cosmos. 060214 ... z meaning is a human construct or the construct of any sentient being capable of symbolic reasoning at some level. 060214 ... \\huh// and what do u construct it out of, if not other meanings. 060214 ... zeke i believe meaning exists solely in cognition, which it is a product of. likewise, if meaning exists in the universe it is encapsulated in cognitive beings. i believe that meaning cannot exist with out a "thinker". after all in the dictionary it is listed first as a verb then as a noun and finally as an adjective. as a noun it's use is almost always dependant on a verb such as convey or interpret. to me these connote delivery and synthesis. the phase "finding meaning" is (for me) a lazy way to describe a process of construction. whether it is an intentional process or more of a gestalt apprehension. and yet i fill my world with meaning. my meaning. my joy. my beauty. 060214 ... z where can i go to mine meaning? where does it grow? what is it's chemical structure? what is it's half life? from what elements is it made? is it inert or reactive? what is it's mass? under what conditions does it form? is it subject to erosion? 060214 ... zeke \\huh//: your question has merit. i believe cognition is built on the classification of things. at base these are something like good stimulus and bad stimulus. there is a genetic predisposition towards that which will help keep the organism alive and healthy and it's species populated. gradually as we mature the initial categorizations accumulate and are organized into a massively cross linked network of stimulus memories. those linkages are the ur-meaning upon which all other meaning is constructed. language is simply an imperfect extension of this internal network to include the "meanings" of other cognitive entities. the transfer of meaning from one network (read as individual) to another is so fraught with noise and approximation that it is tantamount to translation. for me, all translation is also approximation. for me, to understand is a verb, an active process which is actually a synthesis. 060214 ... epitome of incomprehensibility Everything is a matter of terminology. Even if it isn't. 060214 ... z see: signal_and_noise 060329 ... They call me Truth given my/our limited knowledge, it is hard for me to indulge in flights of the ego or the pretension of having the absolute knowledge to define things in simple concrete terms. to look up at the sky, to look at the complexities of the body, to realize and understand our humble existence, is to understand that we know very little and thus, are ill equipped to make such an assumption on meaning. it also fascinates me that u are using the same concept to create the argument that meaning is a construction. arent u attributing meaning to all these fancy scientific words and current knowledge. arent you constructing an idea based on various words and phrases that are held by meaning? and if this is so, doesnt that make what you are saying a construct as well? i am almost positive you are aware of this. that your reasoning is no more meaningful than a belief in things outside of our current scientific philosophy, such as faith in a higher power, because your thought process is based on the same constructions as everything else. it is just a construction u have decided to believe and follow. so in that sense everything is cast into a sea of nothingness or it is empowered by the individual mind, making any construction a creation, and we the creator, creating the world anew in various ways. still with all that said, i do believe that meaning is a construction made by sentient life. however, i also believe that i know nothing. 070630 ... zeke meaning, for me, is a verb, not a noun. we enact meaning, we behave significance, if only within ourselves. it is an action, a dynamic process, which, once finished, is gone, except for the stored evidences of it, left in our brains as memories and in the physical world as records such as books, paintings or stone carvings. these evidences are inert and are not inherently meaningful without a cognition to interpret them (notice that the organizing principle centers on the verb interpret). in the absence of a cognition equipped with the ability to understand (another verb) them they are not in themselves significant, they are not meaningful. regarding my decision that meaning only exists as a verb acted by cognitive entities, i am influenced by the   scientific method. This system of analysis favors the least complicated explanation for all phenomena, and relies on repeatable observation for verification of it's "truths". the notion that there may be all sorts of unobserved evidence for more complex explanations is granted, but deferred until such evidence is demonstrable. so, in science, unless a thing is observed more than once and can be caused to be observed reliably in the future, it is not considered valuable for inclusion in an explanation of the nature of things. wanting something to be true does not make it so. knowing in your heart that something is "true" does not demonstrate it's validity. hypotheses are not proven concepts, they are questions waiting to be answered. what is unobserved, is not used in formal proof. i will believe (a verb) a meaning when it is demonstrable, not when my heart tells me to. meaning continues to be an active constructions of cognition. 070701 ... They call me Truth wow, i understood that completely, and i agree, just as i had before. There is reasoning in your thought process. Meaning does not exist outside of interpretation. I understand the scientific process as well. I also realize that it is a construction agreed upon. It has been attributed meaning (noun) by the people who use it and believe in its processes. Many of these truths change over time as new data is discovered, explored, established, and these truths are thus rendered obsolete. Because given the limited knowledge that we possess, we do not have the means to explore various parts of the physical world and beyond. So belief is thus based on present data, data that have been discovered to be true thus far. But truth in science just as in everything is fleeting and everchanging. There are always anomalies, unexplained phenomenon, and "stuff" that we do not have the capabilities of experimenting. This makes truth rather foggy. These cognitive processes are part of sentient life, and constructing methods does not form a gateway of escape from this process. We are interpretors, whether you see meaning as a verb or a noun or both, seeing a thing as something, deriving meaning, and forming a way of thinking from that derived meaning, is the process that we all undergo. The method was created, it is a construction and you are held by it. You have willingly done so, so that your heart doesnt cause you to believe that which cannot be proven. This is perfectly understandable. 070701 ... zeke common ground. 070701 ... They call me Truth indeed 070701 ... . you poop 070701 what's it to you? who go blather from