ciphermeister dosquatch smurfus rex: Alright, if you want us to play along, how about a tutorial? Challenge 3 I figured had something to do with a phone. You said 'celphone' and the method clicked. So, fine, I had an in, some hint as to HOW to solve it. I can more or less suss out direct character replacement based on distribution frequencies and word lengths. But you post a block of 5 letter sets, and say that one could Google for the solution to the cipher. But if I didn't want to do that, if I didn't want the solution method handed to me, then where would I start? (challenge #2) This obviously isn't simple character substitution, not when the character set is 5 letters (a,d,f,g,x). I'm figuring letter couplets, corresponding to a 5x5 grid that holds the alphabet (minus a letter), but since it's blocks of 5... it's not straight couplets. So, how does one figure out how to couple letters? How does one know which letter of the alphabet is missing? How does one have any idea of what order the alphabet is in on the 5x5 grid? (I'm assuming it to be too much to hope for alphabetical order) I mean, aside from the obvious, which I've already stated, where does one start? 040615 ... smurfus rex first off, I have to say that I appreciate your efforts on this. second, I'm not sure how to give you an "in" without handing you the solution method, but I'll try this way... the five-letter groups are arranged for convenience of communication. you may find it easier to crack if you run all the groups together in a line and work on it that way. also, there are twice as many letters in the code as there are in the plaintext. finally, it is conventional to combine I and J in one space when using 5x5 alphabetical grids. hope that helps! :) 040615 ... smurfus rex oh, and yes, it *is* in alphabetical order. I'd like to see these solved instead of ignored out of frustration. :) 040615 ... smurfus rex and for those of you following along at home, the sequence is _ A D G F X A D G F X Be sure to drink your Ovaltine. 040617 ... u24 I'm afraid I have ignored #2 out of sheer frustration. I thought it was a vigenere cipher, am i wrong or just inept? 040802 ... correction #1 040802 ... smurfus rex u24, I put a spoiler link for you on #3's page...but be warned, it's not called a "spoiler" for nothing. :) 040803 ... u24 you might like puremango.co.uk/vigenere.php 041104 ... smurfus rex I'll check that out, thanks! 041104 what's it to you? who go blather from