conciousness_without_a_brain andru235 is the rabbit brain sufficient for consciousness? were dinosaurs conscious? archosaurs? synapsid reptiles? fish? insects? there are a host of intermediary creatures that have semi-brains. evolution does not create from nothing. even the most radical mutations are an evolution of something previous. thus, if consciousness is not had in trilobites, then consciousness can only be a distant permutation of something else that *was* had in trilobites. if consciousness showed up out of nowhere at a certain point in brain development (which was long, and gradual), then any other aspects of life could have shown up out of nowhere just the same. can't have it both ways! even to say that consciousness evolved bit by bit still requires a base in something else. if there is a step from zero to nothing, then evolution is no longer a viable explanation for things. see previous paragraph! mutations can be enormous, and can totally obscure the predecessor trait. but the predecessor trait was still there! why would consciousness be any different? again, if consciousness doesn't have a predecessor trait, then how can we be so sure that other things *do*? maybe it went from trilobites to pterodactyls (i don't really think that). either way, where did the primordial soup get whatever it was that later became waking life? everything about the human experience has parallels in even the most itsy-bitsy forms of life: consumption. reproduction. periods of growth. periods of decay. habitat preferences. movement. death. stagnance. regeneration. 'society'. and the relevant organs vary enormously. but suddenly we want to say that we have consciousness because of a brain, and they don't. so bacteria don't have digestion because they don't have stomachs? of course they have digestion. it simply works in a totally different manner. but they take in 'food', extract nutrients from it, and excrete the rest as waste. digestion. all known living things have some sort of cordination mechanism, even if that is only the DNA itself. but if sentience and/or consciousness exist there, it won't be any more similar to our mode of consciousness than a comparison of physique. expecting consciousness to resemble what we know it as is inane (no one here has specifically claimed that it would). "but how could something be conscious if it doesn't have a brain?" let's look at the question via analogy. "how could something move around if it doesn't have legs?" "how could something detect light [phototropes such as plants] if it doesn't have eyes, or skin [to FEEL warmth]" "how could something eat if it doesn't have a mouth? how could it acquire nutrients if it doesn't eat?" "how could something breathe if it doesn't have lungs [plants]?" "how could something sexually reproduce if it doesn't have a penis / vagina?" etc. of course, the answers to these are all quite obvious to us. yet many would balk at the base question. 050904 ... andru235 *grumble*...and idiocy with one. conSciousness_without_a_brain 050904 what's it to you? who go blather from