plato User24 ok. the world of ideas. everything we perceive is an imperfect copy of a perfect idea. surely this is just delaying the question where does it all come from? if the ideas are perfect, infinite, and eternal, how is plato's world of ideas more acceptable than the idea that what we perceive here is eternal? I just don't agree with plato; why must there be more than what we can perceive? Why isn't it just that we don't perceive the world in the right way? We've seen that the world, and universe, is a very, maybe infinitely complex system, but it is a system nonetheless; why do we need to create a new system? And as far as a soul goes, why does it have to be a seperate, non-physical part of us? Do you think we have a soul? Do you think rocks can think? Do you think there is anything beyond the physical? Why do people believe things? What is communication? 030521 ... User24 if plato was right, and this world comes from perfect ideas, then how does this world replicate those ideas? What governs the level of imperfection, for surely something must govern it, if not, we would lose the idea in random mutations. And if something governs the imperfection, where does the governing force exist? in the world of ideas or in our world? surely in our world, for nothing can pass between the two without being made into a rough copy? And if the force is in our world, surely it's an imperfect copy? But how can that be, given that it does work? Why are the copies we have imperfect, why can't we create perfect copies? 030521 ... Piso Mojado because we are made up of our 'soul' and our 'body.' Plato believed that although our soul is a perfect receptor of the pure/otherworldly 'ideas', that it is tainted and unable to function the way it should because of the animalistic/gross body and its desires. (soul= high/good, body= low/bad) The more one can curb ones bodily impulses, the closer one can get to the true 'ideas.' Of course, because this world is a physical one, we can never in this life time perceive/obtain the 'ideas' - instead we must wait until this body dies and our soul recycles itself. 030804 ... User24 ahh, that makes a little more sense, quite buddhist in his philosophy then, right? 031014 ... Piso Mojado or maybe it's just the buddhist slant in me coming out in my explanations. :) 040306 ... flies where is the realm of ideas? why should it be? how would we know if it really exists? what use is it except to disqualify our real experience? 040325 ... u24 it doesn't disqualify it, it explains the imperfections of it. 040326 ... u24 "a tyrant is always stirring up some war in order that the people may require a leader." 040908 what's it to you? who go blather from