neurodivergence nr "i don't ask questions about you because i assume you'd tell me anything you wanted to share." it seems to be mostly neurodivergent people who understand and relate to this communication style. 260819 ... releaseofwarmth I wish I understood more. But I have this creeping feeling in the back of my head that even if I did, I'd still come to the same conclusion. That we're all weird humans, and that all behavior is ultimately human nature if we're all humans. No matter how divergent the behavior is. Not that I entirely understand what we're diverging from exactly. But in a world that insists on labeling every little tool in the garage, that insists on every little thing being defined and categorized and put into talking points and buzz words in a clear way so that everyone in the neighborhood can be on the same page...I guess I can accept the distinction, or perhaps simply the fact, of being a neurodivergent person. I just wish I knew HOW that knowledge helped anyone in any way. But isn't that part of the mystery? (Hope this didn't come across too bitchy. Just trying to be earnest.) 260819 ... nr i can understand this, and i agree in a sense. if a person discovers they are neurodivergent or neurotypical or whatever the label may be, they are still the same person they always were. but i think the explanations and categories help me to understand behaviour and perspectives that are different from my own. i was trying to research why it was more likely for certain groups of people to communicate in different certain ways. the why helps a lot. 260819 ... ovenbird I have similar misgivings and questions about the idea of neurodivergence, releaseofwarmth. Because it seems to me that those who struggle to function inside our prevailing social and economic systems are deemed neurodivergent. But those systems are not “natural.” We created them. Mostly to make money and to grasp power and to exploit people. I often feel that I do not “diverge” from the norm so much as the norm refuses to make room for me. And I think this is the case for a lot of people diagnosed with neurodivergences–the struggle to navigate the world has a lot more to do with the structure of the world we have made than with the neurodivergences themselves. The world we live in is noisy, fast paced, relentless, hyperfocused particular types of high profile achievement, competitive, and allergic to deep feelings. I frequently struggle with overwhelm and anxiety in this iteration of the world. But I suspect that if I could spend my day picking berries and weaving baskets and connecting deeply with a small community of other humans just quietly working to survive, and finish my day off with stories and songs around a fire, I would fit in just fine. (I recognize that I’m dramatically simplifying early human life, but hopefully the point is made.) It’s an interesting thing to contemplate. And nr, I also empathize with your scenario, because human communication is really complex, and we so often don’t get what we need from other people, and sometimes neurodivergence can be used as an excuse for causing harm or not communicating effectively. And it’s also very helpful to understand how people’s brains work so we can all be more empathetic around instances where others might struggle to engage the way we expect or need. Not everyone is capable of meeting us where we are, and there can be a lot of reasons for that. I don’t know. I think we all just want to be seen and heard and understood and truly witnessing each other is complicated. I really like that it’s possible to have a good faith conversation about these things. I appreciate all of you. 260819 ... raze someone who has never met or communicated with me in any form asked if i'd been tested after hearing a bit about me. honestly, i think just about everyone could probably be found to fall somewhere on the spectrum given the right set of circumstances. my world has narrowed not as an outgrowth of the way my mind works, but because most of the people i thought were my allies abandoned me. exhaustion is also a factor. and really, the older i grow, the less any sort of conventional social life appeals to me. i want meaningful interactions with people who feel things deeply. not small_talk in a big-box store. i don't know what i am. i'm just me, i guess. all i know is that the brain is such a strange, fascinating thing. 260819 ... nr i'm always interested to learn more about this topic, and i think there may be a stereotype that neurotypical = normal and neurodivergent = weird. it makes sense, since if you're diverging from the norm, how are you not weird? as far as i know, i'm fairly neurotypical since i don't identify with enough of the behaviours in autism or ADHD, but i am a person with anxiety and some compulsions and some apathy and some depression and a lot of appreciation for deep thinkers, peacefulness, and the absurd. so i'm a weirdo who thinks on the spectrum of what's considered normal? 260820 ... Jus It took me a long time to come to terms with my neurodivergence (especially the autism) but I’ve always known that there was something wrong with me. Autism in women is painfully under-researched, but from my experience it’s not as simple as being weird or different from the norm—because, you’re right, what even is the norm? The thing with neurodivergence is that it isn’t a monolith. The variables are vast and differ from subject to subject. I have ADD, ASD, OCD, and PTSD. Some of it is from actual trauma, but the neurodivergence is genetic. I agree that it seems like a lot of people are being diagnosed but that’s actually a misnomer, it’s just not being tucked tidily under the rug like it used to. Like, my mother is absolutely on the spectrum but her generation would have just called her a spaz or crazy. Now, we can speak openly about our experiences and its relatively normalized (thank God). Communication is one of the pillars of autism for sure. I’ve definitely heard the “if you want me to know, I assume you’ll tell me” line before. Clarity is important to NDs because it’s hard to read between the lines. Subtext is not something we can often pick up on. So, if there is a script of dialogue you’re initiating and expecting it to flow like it would with neurotypicals, you’re going to have a bad time. I can do the script thing to a point, but it’s draining and it was a skill I had to learn so that I could mask for long enough to make people think I was normal. Anyone who has spent their life unmasked will not have this skill. Another pillar of neurodivergence is sensory issues. You know that sound in horror movies when there’s panic and the camera is super close to the victim’s face and there’s that piercing sound and breathing noises? That’s how I feel when I’m at Costco or walking in sunshine for too long or if I’m wearing a watch or the wrong pants or God forbid hair touches my face or neck or if I feel anything velvety. It makes me irritable, exhausted, and desperate for it to stop. I used to need to sit in a completely black room and cry after working with people all day. Genuinely have never understood how people could go to work and then do things afterwards. If I leave my house for any amount of time it takes time for me to regroup. I still think about when my cousin and her daughter spent the night here two months ago, like I’m still drained from hosting them. Anyway, I’m not sure if any of that was warranted but just piping in to say that it’s not really weird vs not weird. Although, I am so fking weird lol 260821 ... raze (you're also wonderful. and all my favourite people are beautiful_and_weird. it's the normal ones who scare me.) 260821 ... ovenbird Thank you so much for your perspective, Jus! What you said makes a lot of sense. I also find that having a name for particular types of minds is helpful. Knowing that my son has ADHD, for example, helps me to better understand what’s happening for him and gives me way more tools for supporting his way of existing in the world. For myself, I exhibited all sorts of mental health issues as a child, but no one ever pursued a diagnosis for me. My symptoms weren’t recognized as a generalized anxiety disorder until much later and having that information could have had a profound effect on my childhood and may have allowed me to develop coping mechanisms far earlier in life. I am now wondering if other diagnoses were missed and dismissed. Many of my experiences align closely with experiences of those on the autism spectrum. Frequently when I read about autism in women I think, holy SHIT, that’s me! But there are also lots of aspects that don’t fit. Presentations are diverse and complicated and it may be that I wouldn’t reach the threshold for diagnoses and am more what’s deemed a “highly sensitive person” which has not been properly researched and is not a clinical diagnosis and, therefore, doesn’t come with support, but still leaves me struggling to engage with people and the world in a way that’s deemed “normal.” I relate SO much to what you said about sensory struggles. I had a lot of issues as a child (my socks had to be inside out because the seams drove me insane.) And I still struggle with all sorts of textures and sounds. The entire world has always felt way too loud and way too bright. My nervous system is easily triggered which affects my ability to sleep and means there are all sorts of things I just can’t do comfortably. A loud dance party is my definition of hell. I also struggle to recover from social interactions. I need a LOT of quiet, introspective alone time to function. And one major social outing can mean needing days of quiet recovery time. the world doesn’t really allow this, especially with kids in the picture. I generally find life overwhelming and exhausting and I do wonder if a proper diagnosis, even at this age, would be helpful. Anyway, I could go on forever here. It’s something that I have a lot of curiosity about and I really appreciate it when people share their experiences. So thank you for your openness. 260822 ... Jus Something that helped me during my discovery and acceptance of an ASD classification was the fact that most neurotypicals do not align at all with sensory or social issues; neurotypicals don't question if they're autistic. Especially frequently. They may be interested in the topic or understand it, but they will not return to the question of, "could this be me?" 260822 ... Jus Ahh it glitched out and didn't post the rest of what I said for some reason lol I basically just said that it would have been so great to have anyone pay attention to our needs when we were younger. I know how difficult it is growing up feeling like there's something wrong but you're not sure what is it or how to change it. And that book, the Highly Sensitive Person, is a pipeline for people with ASD. I'm not saying that's true for you! But a lot of us connected to the HSP characteristic and just happen to have ended up autistic. lol life is wild. But even though I often forget that my needs are different from others and I push myself too hard to "fit in", I'm still so glad that I have something to explain why I am the way that I am. It's much better than feeling like it's my fault and I'm just not working hard enough to be normal. 260822 what's it to you? who go blather from