intellectual_sloth Strideo "I believe my ideology is right therefore I am entitled to impose my ideology upon you through force rather than persuasion!" I see it all around me. ... 070711 ... zeke for me the operative word in your sentence is "impose". 070711 ... hsg persuasion a type of force? 070711 ... zeke influence? 070711 ... Strideo "persuasion a type of force?" no, but I think force could be a type of persuasion though I ruled that particular method out with the part of the statement that says "force rather than persuasion". "Persuasion is a form of influence. It is the process of guiding people toward the adoption of an idea, attitude, or action by rational and symbolic (though not always logical) means. It is strategy of problem-solving relying on "appeals" rather than force." - wikipedia I can't force anyone to be persuaded to think as I do. I could start debating an issue and arguing my point of view and the other party could simply leave, not listen, disagree and counter, or even pretend to agree with me and then call me an idiot as soon as I'm out of earshot. I think any method of persuasion I could employ that the other party could not avoid if they so wished would be unethical unless they willfully and knowingly agreed to it before hand. I would advocate the use of ethical persuasion methods via discussion, debate, arguing logic, presenting facts, and the stating of opinions and emotions rather than persuasion via bribery, propaganda, deception, harassment, or other coercive methods. ... 070712 ... cube Methinks perhaps, you have left out the most important method of persuasion - your actions. If a person sees your life as being improved measurably by your own adoption of the norms you preach, then said person will be more inclined to acceptance. Trying to persuade intellectually is an exercise in frustration. Persuasion by fear works, temporarily. ³ 070712 ... . More or less I agree, Cube. Persuasion thrives in passivity and perishes in aggression. Or rather, aggression transforms persuasion into coercion. 070712 what's it to you? who go blather from