fighting .nom against fighting 050215 ... Ft LoT Yes, lets us never, ever defend ourselves but instead give in to all those that may wish something of us. For God's sake it is not all or nothing. Sometimes fighting is necessary in order to live. The animal world is in a continual struggle for survival and according to your own beliefs we are only a stage of life's development. 050215 ... .nom Ft LoT, your use of 'your' leaves me wondering who the 'you' in 'your' is/was. 050216 ... Ft LoT Though this may be a misapplied assumption, in some of your earlier postings you’ve used Jainism as well as other Eastern religion related links to help illustrated your point. Among these sites (many of which I’ve visited) are numerous mentions of “Universal consciousness” or “Oneness” or of “Advaita” all of which believe that we are connected in spirit and strive for “Enlightenment” (or whatever other semantic deviation you wish). It is from this that I assumed you took these beliefs to heart and so I meant the ‘you’ in my previous post to be… you (.nom). 050216 ... Ft LoT As to the sites, I believe that the tenets of these religions or ‘spiritually enlightening’ ways of thinking have their place and in many cases strive for a world most would wish to live in, I do not believe they are practical or natural. What I take to be your own belief system (though I apologize if it is not your belief or if I am grossly misunderstanding it) believes the universe to function on a symbiosis and complete interdependency, which I happen to agree with. But, it seems to remain willfully ignorant to the fact that this symbiosis is achieved through STRIFE. Life remains dependant upon each other because each is fighting for its own survival and through this struggle it achieves balance. Throughout the universe we witness this and, in fact, harness it for our own elevation. Nowhere on Earth do you have cooperation for the sole benefit of one entity. Every action taken in nature is taken for the advantage of the creature engaged in said action and not for whatever symbiotic counterpart it may posses. The benefit the other unit receives is a byproduct and not a purposeful act. Like I’ve stated in other posts I’m not promoting violent action or advocating strife as a way of life but only that it exists as a naturally occurring phenomenon. Groups and individuals who resist this or duck their heads avoiding its existence do nobody any good. What we should be striving for isn’t a society completely devoid of strife but instead a society where strife takes the form of loud discussions or civil disobedience. A place where, though we know evil exists, we do not actively promote it but instead demonstrate the punishments for deviant behavior. Punishment isn’t bad! Those who commit the act worth punishing are bad. Why is it the cop and the prison guard are always painted as being ‘the bad guys’ whereas the guy who just robed the liquor store while on crack so that he could buy more drugs is the ‘good guy’ when while resisting arrest he is beaten? Again, I’m not saying that all cops are justified by the virtue of being cops but that some people are just BAD and a smack on the butt when they are kids or a slam in the leg with a billy club when resisting arrest isn’t over-reacting. 050217 ... . . 050217 ... .nom Ft LoT, "fighting against fighting" was what my mind thought after writing "from fighting" in whole_body_shaking i was writing how i was feeling at that moment,...there was an argument i was trying to calm, thus i was also involved in the argument, but trying to stay calm. the situation made me feel sick, on top of feeling sick. i was describing my state of being at that moment...kinda laughing at myself in a way,...but i was also making a statement about fighting in a broader sense. similarily, my blathe share_jerusalem began with jerusalem (personally for me) symbolizing the heart. which also tranlated into the world political context of people getting along together. for indeed how can peace be found in this world if it is not in our hearts, our homes... love_without_expectations was, for me, about personal forgiveness. now my telling you this does not exactly explain well my thoughts, but hopefully it does convey some of the backdrop for this blathe. i thank you for reading the links i posted. i wonder if you read the quotes (in blue non_violence) from mahatma gandi regarding ahimsa? though i myself do not personally agree with everything he said/wrote,...here specifically are some of the things he said which might be applicable here: "...Perfect non-violence is impossible so long as we exist physically, for we would want some space at least to occupy. Perfect non-violence whilst you are inhabiting the body is only a theory like Euclid's point or straight line, but we have to endeavour every moment of our lives...Taking life may be a duty. We do destroy as much life as we think necessary for sustaining our body. Thus for food we take life, vegetable and other, and for health we destroy mosquitoes and the like by the use of disinfectants, etc., and we do not think that we are guilty of irreligion in doing so...for the benefit of the species, we kill carnivorous beasts.... Even man slaughter may be necessary in certain cases. Suppose a man runs amuck and goes furiously about, sword in hand, and killing anyone that comes in his way, and no one dares to capture him alive. Anyone who dispatches this lunatic will earn the gratitude of the community and be regarded as a benevolent man...The people of a village near Bettia told me that they had run away whilst the police were looting their houses and molesting their womenfolk. When they said that they had run away because I had told them to be non-violent, I hung my head in shame. I assured them that such was not the meaning of my non-violence. I expected them to intercept the mightiest power that might be in the act of harming those who were under their protection, and draw without retaliation all harm upon their own heads even to the point of death, but never to run away from the storm centre. It was manly enough to defend one's property, honour, or religion at the point of the sword. It was manlier and nobler to defend them without seeking to injure the wrongdoer. But it was unmanly, unnatural and dishonorable to forsake the post of duty and, in order to save one's skin, to leave property, honour or religion to the mercy of the wrong-doer. I could see my way of delivering ahimsa to those who knew how to die, not to those who were afraid of death...My non-violence does not admit of running away from danger and leaving dear ones unprotected. Between violence and cowardly flight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice. I can no more preach non-violence to a coward than I can tempt a blind man to enjoy healthy scenes. Non-violence is the summit of bravery. And in my own experience, I have had no difficulty in demonstrating to men trained in the school of violence the superiority of non-violence. As a coward, which I was for years, I harboured violence. I began to prize non-violence only when I began to shed cowardice..." as far as my beliefs go,...although those links mirrored some of my feelings, they do not fully constitute 'my belief system'...i do take many of those teachings to heart, or rather i feel there is some harmony between my heart and those words, but i do not feel they fully represent my beliefs. as far as 'my own' words regarding my beliefs, they too are but a (perhaps fairly dim) reflection. personally i wonder how something that can be thought to have a 'place' can also be thought to be 'not natural'? or how someone can be considered to be a bad person? i would reply more to what you've said, and elaborate more on what i myself am talking about, but right now i must be off to paint. 050218 ... .nom pardon my spypos 050218 ... .nom i don't think the cop or the robber is 'bad' 050219 ... .nom i think someone who is stealing because they are sick with addiction needs help. and while i think most/many police officers are 'just doing their job', police brutality can/does occur, and if/when it does, i think the officer(s) involved also need(s) help. 050219 ... Ft LoT I agree with ghandi's quote and was myself trying to make the same point. The reason for my posts came from experiences in my own life where people preaching "non-violence" took it in the same way as the people of the village of Bettia. They felt that any violent action, no matter the circumstance, was evil. From reading your posts (and granted I have not read them all but only the few I happened upon) I took your posts to be preaching that same form of non-violence and felt it neccessary to object. 050223 ... Ft LoT Also, I hoped to make the point, regarding societies, that none can function which are contrary to human nature. Society and the future shape of society is constrained by it. Remaking humanity through politics is a biological impossibility. Though each culture enhances traits it deems necessary for societal cohesion as well as the development of trust and cooperation between its citizens it does not alter our natural inclinations. The real benefit of society is its ability to channel our ‘coalitional and status-seeking instincts’ for productive uses while building upon our natural suspicion of power in order to preserve our freedoms. I believe what I am saying can best be summed up by Immanuel Kant, “From the crooked timber of humanity no truly straight thing can be made.” 050223 ... mon uow fighting fighting writing writing fighting fighting 050406 ... mon uow fighting eating breathing 050406 ... mon uow sleeping 050406 ... mon uow life 050406 ... anomalous _feelings_ 050514 ... nom) hiding 051008 what's it to you? who go blather from