dude_club nr when the male teachers leaders lead our video classes, they call on men for participation like "mike, my man, whatchu got for me?" or "dave, man, any thoughts?" etc. etc. non-men just get called on by name. it's like some kind of bro-y dude_club we can't be part of. 220524 ... oof not teachers leaders. one or the other. 220524 ... nr maybe i'm being too sensitive. but i don't like the idea of not being able to have the same sense of camaraderie with someone because i'm not a man. 220524 ... epitome of incomprehensibility One of my sociolinguistics students had an essay where he stated as fact that men are meaner to each other in the workplace, so when women come in, they have to tone down their "natural" inclination towards rowdy banter, or women will be offended. He cited Jordan Peterson, who seems like a quack as a social commenter and nutrition "expert"...but you'd think in his actual field, psychology, he'd be more sensible. Even my Psych 101 prof in CEGEP - who was into evolutionary psychology and accepted some of the stereotypical gender stuff - took micro-evolution and societal differences into account. And probably wouldn't say something like "men are meaner than women" or the reverse. ...Gah, this was meant to relate to your point. I guess I mean to say that this guy, in addressing only men, isn't proof of some "natural" fact that men work with each other better, but more that the speaker is used to having more men in the class. From what you wrote, it wouldn't be a lot that he has to change in how he speaks. Being casual or jokey isn't the problem (IMO), just that he's only like that with men. Language can also shift - "dudes" and especially "you guys" are often gender-neutral now - but it's silly that he's just addressing men in a friendly/casual way. 220525 ... e_o_i According to grammer books, that last bit would be clearer if I'd put "just" before the word "men." But it seems weird to me to put "only" and "just" next to nouns, since I never talk that way. *monologue pondering the concept of internal grammar and whether the "only/just" syntactic difference is a regional or generational one* Oh, and I agree with you completely here, in case it wasn't clear (it probably wasn't). 220525 ... past i've never felt comfortable in dude clubs, or spaces that operate as them. something about being a shy introvert reacting strongly against any extraverted masculinity? at my first paying job in my early teens (bagging groceries! does such a job exist anymore?) an elderly cashier always reacted against the use of "guys" as gender-neutral. it's stuck with me. as for only/just before a noun, it's a question of emphasis maybe? hmmm. 220526 ... e_o_i is sidetracked by syntax "According to grammar books" is too blastedly general, sorry. But I mean some people will advise saying "Just Alice is going to the party" if you mean only Alice is going to the party, because "Alice is just going to the party" means that Alice is going to the party and not doing anything else at that moment (it might also imply that going to the party is not a particularly important action) But for some reason "just" before a noun sounds oddly formal to me. Putting "only" before one does seem more like something I'd say. Still, if it were only Alice, I'd probably word it like "It's only Alice who's going to the party." 220526 what's it to you? who go blather from