i_forgive_you epitome of incomprehensibility Learn from my bad example: don't say this to someone if they haven't apologized first. "I forgive you" = unsubtle passive-aggressive move, redolent of the more irritating facets of modern Christianity. Jesus was clever enough not to use that tactic. He did suggest a more subtle one, if I remember correctly - be nice to people who aren't nice to you, and that will be "heaping coals of fire on [their] head." I don't quite understand this metaphor. Presumably being nice would make them feel, depending on their temperament: a) guilty b) embarrassed c) confused d) suspicious So it wouldn't work with everybody, but it might be worthwhile being nice just to confuse people. That'd be sufficiently surrealist for my tastes. Hm. Jesus, were you being surreal with the whole coals of fire thing? What would André Breton say to THAT?? In real life, my problem is that there's a family friend - someone who used to be good friends with my father and whose daughters I talked with every couple of weeks, before they moved away - who's convinced my dad tried to ruin his career. He also accused him of stealing when he sent a cheque to the wrong person by mistake. This whole argument started when I was away in another city, and the tail end of it is that neither of them think it's any use talking to the other, and this person still bad-mouths my father and refuses to forgive him unless he admits to theft and a bunch of other things he hasn't done. (My dad's not the kind of person to steal stuff, as far as I know - he's hardworking, a bit of a pessimist, and stubborn in his own quieter way. As a kid he had a bad temper, but it doesn't usually show now. We have several things in common: awkwardness, a short-skinny stature, and an interest in literature. So I guess I do have some sort of family loyalty, even if I don't always agree with his views.) It doesn't affect my everyday life much, but since I see the other guy sometimes and I'm still on speaking terms with him, I've tried talking to him. He won't admit that he even might be in the wrong. I suppose it's not fair to blame his religion (and unfair to snap "I forgive you" in an angry voice; he was entirely justified in replying, "I didn't do anything wrong to you") but it's fair to try to understand his temperament - I'm stubborn, my dad's a bit stubborn, and he seems stubborn to the extreme. Well, there's no changing other people's minds. I suppose I'm taking this too personally because a person I hurt in the past didn't forgive me. She had every right not to. And this man has every right not to forgive my dad. I just wish he would just... [e_o_i resists the temptation to find his email address and send him a YouTube link to "Let It Go" from the movie Frozen. That would be truly evil.] But I'll try to take that advice too. Let it go. There's no use bothering either of them. If I had more money I could give more people surreal presents. 141208 ... e_o_i I wrote about this before. I can't remember what the title of the blathe was, but I called my father and his former friend Person A and Person B. This, however, is from what_normal_people_argue_about: "In the real world, I have observed that the following statements can end arguments amicably: 1) I'm not serious and 2) I reject your theology, but I accept your herbal tea." 141208 what's it to you? who go blather from