gears maruku there is no i when i close my eye, all i can see in my mind's eye is the gears keep turning and turning 000801 ... stan if there is no i how did i close the eye ? Didn't of course! (Ockam's razor) There was just eye closing. If you understand this, then you do not. Yet there can be understanding, and yes someone understands, but there is no "i" who understands, just a bag of bones. 000801 what's it to you? who go blather from