whats_your_sign Dafremen I'm a Libra.(October 14th) Some folx fall between signs and are known as cusps. Cusps exhibit many of the traits associated with both of the signs under which they fall. If you were born in the first 6 days of your sign then you fall in the cusp of that sign. If you find that this is a load of happy horsesh*t then GOOD, you have nothing to lose and might even find it entertaining. Who knows, you might end up reexamining your ideas about what is possible and what isn't.(like a certain logic-minded know-it-all who shall remain nameless. (ME)) People are made of physical matter. When we observe a repeatable pattern in the way that matter/energy react when exposed to certain environmental influences..over time, and with experience we begin to "PREDICT" how similar matter/energy will behave under similar conditions. A good example would be a glass of water. What would happen to a glass of water if I take it and put it in the freezer? (It'll freeze, turn to ice and the glass will probably break.) How do YOU know that if you put a glass of water into the freezer it will turn to ICE? (Because I've done it a million times.) Yes but how do you know that THIS glass of water will behave similarly? (I just do.) But what if it doesn't? (It will) But you DON'T really know right? (Well, no...but the odds of my being wrong are pretty astronomical if they exist at all.) THIS is how HUMANISTIC ASTROLOGY works. It has NOTHING to do with horoscopes. IT has to do with projecting probabilities based on past observations. HUMANISTIC ASTROLOGY is the study of human material and is a record of similarities observed in humans subjected to the same(or similar) environmental influences. These observations have been made over the course of at least 6,000 years...perhaps longer. It's not about guessing or the stars controlling our destinies. It's not about everyone born at the same time being identical. It's about human material's reaction to it's environment. So anyhow...all of that aside: The simple question is... When were you born? (Which is the same as: What was the distance of the sun from the planet Earth at the time you were born? What was the relative position of the sun to the earth at the time you were born? What was the ratio of day to night (darkness and light) when you were born? Where was the moon at the time you were born? (You've heard of the tides I suspect...a gravitational field that can LIFT the ocean ISN'T going to affect you Mr or Ms 96% water content?) and a load of other questions related to what was going on in the environment AROUND you when the material that makes up YOU was first exposed to it.) All of that from a simple date. (Which is where the stars came into astrology. They didn't HAVE clocks or watches 6,000 or more years ago. But they had the stars and they're about as good as any calendar.) So tell me...blatherskites What IS your sign? 010711 ... baby satan i'm a virgin mary. 010711 ... Dafremen Seems like Virgos and Sags are the worst skeptics of the bunch. (Not all...but the majority that I've interviewed.) For Virgos it must be their analytical nature and lack of intuition. If they can't see it, smell it, hear, taste or feel it(emotionally or physically), then it's probably bullsh*t to them. These are always the guys that say: "Well that could apply to ANYBODY." (Which is uncharacteristically assumptive (or perhaps characteristically evasive)of them...because it has no bearing on the accuracy of the statements.) It's kind of like this: "Hey this water will turn to ice if you put it in the freezer." "Oh yea? Let's see!" (At this point smug little Virgo smirk on the face.(An absolutely annoying Virgo habit when they feel that they are about to squash you with their intellect and logic) "See! Look it's ICE now!" "Yea but that could apply to ANYTHING that you put in the freezer." (Well not Liquid Mercury or Glycol or Liquid Hydrogen and thousands of other substances) "Question brainiac. Does that mean that it ISN'T true for this water? I mean let's face it....it's frozen isn't it? Won't it be true for water again...and again and again? So you're saying that just because other things freeze when subjected to freezing temperatures that it's a bad idea for someone to predict that a glass of water will turn to ice in the freezer?" (I think the stupidity of the logic is becoming evident) "Well it's not a bad idea...it just doesn't go a long way to helping you narrow down the definition of water. Because all KINDS of liquids freeze." "Well if you were to write a definition for water...you wouldn't include that it freezes and turns into ice? I mean wouldn't you include that in ANY definition that you might write about a material that freezes?" "Well yea. But...there would be a lot more specific information too." "Well guess what, ANY definition that doesn't include ALL of the characteristics doesn't completely describe the matter. Furthermore, the more characteristics that you INCLUDE in the definition, the closer you get to describing the ACTUAL material in question. So the definition ISN'T to be broken up into individual characteristics. Just because the definition contains traits shared by OTHER materials DOESN'T make the definition vague. The definition isn't vague because IT presented all of the characteristics to you at once..as a group. YOU are the one who chose to pick them apart one by one." (Smug little smirk again...Virgos never see themselves as inferior to anyone and they frequently see themselves as superior.) I'm not quite sure what the deal with Sags is. I think it's that they just don't like to be contradicted and they don't seem to be big fans of organized anything. 010711 ... yummyC Libra..biotch. october 19 1986 at 2 am exactly... 010711 ... The Truth I am a Cancer Born on the Fifth of July (happy birthday to me!) Tell me about myself, will ya? 010711 ... birdmad "trespassers will be violated" 010711 ... nocturnal what's with all you sensitive sign fucks? we need some serious fire signs up in this bitch. aries kick ass. but it's hard when it's one against so many of you, even if you are all pussies. 010711 ... baby satan my cock is purple. on sundays, it gets longer and turns blue. this is what life is all about! fuck me forever, yonder plunger-thing! ahoy! 010711 ... black-dyed gel product Hey the Truth, we share the same birthday. i was also born on the fifth of july. Cancers unite! 010711 ... nocturnal oh great. just what we need. another cry baby sign. if there are any sags, leos, or aries out there, I'd love to know. I know johnny's a leo, but that's it. there must be more of us. 010711 ... silentbob = scorpio 010711 ... dB I'm a Taurus. Hey Daffy, does that mean I'm an unstable bit of meat or something? 010711 ... nocturnal taurus. that's a little better. one of my best friends is a taurus. stubborn as hell. I like that. 010711 ... dB I AM NOT STUBBORN! I just don't steer to easily. 010711 ... nocturnal otay, buddy. whatever you say. 010711 ... Casey aries, but I'm not a leader 010711 ... The Truth Cancer is a water sign, it's "ruling planet" is the moon. I like being a cancer, not just because it makes me sensitive and emotional, nurturing and protective, but cancer also has the clearest understanding of subconscious drives. Oh, and also... Water beats fire, every time. The Earth contains life because of water and fire. The Wind would not exist without the Moon's pull on the oceans, shifting the air around and creating weather. (But life would not be so diversified and full of variety if it weren't for the wind.) Plus, one time I through a beach party, and everyone was worried that it was going to rain, but I used my water sign influence and willed the clouds to blow away...The rest of that party is legendary. 010712 ... The Truth That's cool Black Dyed Gel Product! Happy belated b-day. It is a cool b-day to have...always celebrating with fireworks! (Cancers are "The Crab", too. I meant to add that up that post up there ^.) I wonder if we are alike at all? Actually, you use the word "pussy" a lot, and I don't think that is entirely necessary, perhaps your "crab-like" pincers are lashing out as a defense, and your hard outer "crab shell" is designed to ward off attacks from potential danger. all of this in order to protect your soft, tender insides...(from seafood restaurants and melted butter) 010712 ... Aimee Generally when asked this question, I reply "Do not enter" which is generally true, but I am a Leo in every sense... and I must say, I love it. :) 010712 ... Dafremen http://www.gnarf.net/users/dafremen/Zodiac/ Or look it up on any search engine under: The Zodiac and Its Mysteries See also: shameless_self_promotion 010712 ... Sol (in school) scorpio (and 70% water content) 010712 ... Dafremen I drink more beer than you do apparently. 010712 ... Dafremen We're both wrong...it's actually 60% water on average. I knew it was a large percent...apparently I mistook humans for cucumbers(a fairly easy mistake to make when the resemblance is so uncanny in most cases.) The point remains valid. 010712 ... Sol (back home) it varies. men have a higher 'water content' than women, no idea why.yeah, i regularly mistake inanimate green cool items for human beings myself, bags of frozen peas are also easily confused with them 010712 ... Dafremen I have mentioned Cancer before. (see also Cancer) Yes Cancer men are very much alike. Cancer women seem to be as well. Cancer men and women share some common traits, but in many ways they are exact opposites. The women seem to be despondent and gloomy much of the time. Can be very negative and love crowds and nearly always try to keep a clean organized home.(Although to them it is endlessly messy so don't expect them to admit to that.) The men are of a much more upbeat, positive nature than the women. They tend to prefer smaller social circles and large doses of tranquility. They tend to be collectors, particularly when living alone. You will rarely find a Cancer bachelor/widower who doesn't have an interesting collection of items in their home to keep the eye interested. All Cancers are retrospective. The past is where their heart and mind always lies and it is only when the future lies in the context of the past that Cancer people will acknowledge it. Cancer folx like the security of the familiar and would take the path they know than an unknown shortcut. This goes for food, music just about anything with the exception of TRAVEL. Cancer folx LOVE to travel. The men are less likely to actually MOVE, preferring a return to comfortable familiar place to lay their heads at the end of an exciting adventure. Emotional, imaginative, sensitive good hearted people. These are Cancer folk. Probably the most phenomenal talent that Cancer people exhibit is their incredible ability with plant life. For some reason Cancer folx can make ANYTHING grow...and grow well too. I'm not sure why, I have no explanation, no theories, nothing. Perhaps it is deep rooted intuitive empathy that they share with plants. I don't care to speculate at this time. It IS a repeatable observation and the only 3 Cancers I've met thus far that DIDN'T demonstrate this gift...had never tried to care for plants before. Strange but apparently true. 010712 ... Dafremen No DB Tauruses are the juggernauts that make dreams come true. If it weren't for Tauruses the rest of us would just sit around all day dreaming sh*t up and only a few of us would ever do anything about them. (Probably a Pisces or a Capricorn...maybe a Sag or a motivated Scorpio...Oh and let's not forget about Cancer...they like to keep busy too.) But Tauruses have a special talent that suits them ESPECIALLY to the purpose. See Tauruses have the most receptive minds in the world. In fact Taurus minds are SO receptive that they often can't distinguish between an idea that they've heard and one that originated in their own mind. Early in their lives Taurus people will often tell a joke or a riddle, or a story to the same person that they just heard it from. They honestly think that THEY thought up the joke, riddle or story because THAT's how the Taurus' mind works. I cried when I finally understood this about Taurus people. See my son is a Taurus and I had no idea how deeply it must have hurt him to tell a clever joke and then have people criticize instead of appreciating. I'm sure that MANY Taurus folx have been hurt this way, because they are extremely tenderhearted people to whom friendship is a treasure and generosity is second nature. They DELIGHT in giving gifts and suprises, they love to entertain. They aren't always very morally brave, meaning that they are more likely than not to fib to avoid getting into trouble. This isn't because they are liars at heart, but that their ravenous gratification of their own desires and their occasional blind uncontrolled rages tend to leave them with a great deal of guilt afterwards. They are too sensitive to face up to the consequences early on in life, so instead they try avoid them. Self-control really should be every Taurus person's first goal. (Not coincidentally, most Taurus people will hear this phrase more times than they probably care to count "Control yourself") But Taurus people make dreams come true and this is how they do it: When someone like me...or some other dreamer type like nocturnal over there...comes up with an idea, we generally either let it die, or we start it and never finish it. That's where a Taurus comes in, see people are more motivated to pursue their own goals and ideas than they are to work toward someone else's vision. Taurus people MAKE other people's ideas their own. Once a Taurus has the ball and has decided to run with it....don't get in the way. They are unstoppable. This is mainly due to their far-sightedness and (when developed)patience to wait for their dreams to materialize. It is also due in large part to their stubborn streak that noc mentioned. Taurus people have a dark side though. It has ruined many of their lives and will ruin many more. Taurus people have a temper. Not just a normal temper though...this is uncontrolled, mindless RAGE. They literally BLACK OUT during these rages and it's best to keep your distance, although controlling their rage may be THEIR responsibility...once the anger kicks in and the vision goes red...don't expect logical or emotional reasoning to get through. They're gone man...run forrest...run! Often these rages are triggered by the SECOND of the Tauran tragedies....pure desire for self gratification. They want what they want when they want it...until they learn to control themselves. Not giving them what they want can trigger the rage. Some Tauruses learn to control themselves, some spend their entire lives hurting the people around them(and as a result themselves..for they do care very deeply) But you can't have Taurus WITHOUT that appetite, that's what drives them to their goals. The difference between constructive and destructive desire really comes down to this question: Are your desires getting you to YOUR destination...or THEIRS? Use the tool, don't let it use you...dream maker. 010712 ... Sol (back home) ooooh, excited now, what about ol' scorpion, (sorry if it was detailed above, i am extremely short of time, so am not reading the whole page) (tentative sheepish grin) 010712 ... peyton I'm a Taurus :) I think that description was insightful and accurate. I can be nice. 010712 ... kingsuperspecial a couple of gray hairs and a throbbing liver 010712 ... DannyH Aquarius 010712 ... Dafremen Well Sol, I can tell you a bit about Scorpios(not as much as I would like, I am still getting familiar with you folx)...probably one of the least understood of all of the types of people out there. It's a real shame too because the heart of the SCorpion isn't as cold as some would have you believe. That then is the first thing you'll notice about a Scorpio...they seem cool and calculating. Secretive and political. In fact they are ALL of these things, but as a result of ONE quality that Scorpios possess in copious quantities: They are PRACTICAL. Scorpio people are the managers and executives of the world. They possess many qualities which are exceedingly useful to that end. Some of these qualities are seen as character FLAWS by others. As with the Taurus' desire...they are both talents and flaws...depending upon degree and intent. Scorpios are diligent workers once they get going. Some of the hardest working people you'll ever meet. They also can't help but notice and complain when others AREN'T pulling their weight. This is a marked trait. They are critics extraordinaire. They are political to the Nth degree, secretive as well, but not necessarily in a bad way. No, Scorpios have a goal...they know what it is and as long as (in their minds) the end is noble...any reasonable means is justified. Some Scorpios fall into the habit of being secretive, bitchy and political for it's own sake. These are the SCorpios who delight in making others miserable...for Scorpios are combative to a degree and harbor a competitive side. Scorpios will not and cannot be FORCED to do ANYTHING. Give it up...yer barking up the wrong tree. They won't be intimidated either. 9 times out of 10 you'll back down before a Scorpio will. Scorpios are interested in all sorts of knowledge and are usually knowledgeable on more than a few diverse subjects. They are usually good with their hands as well. Sex is a very important part of every SCorpios life...not just in the physical, but the emotional and cultural aspect of their lives as well. Many Scorpio males I've interviewed were interested in TASTEFUL(more than one made the distinction) nude artwork. SCorpios are proud, dignified and can appear arrogant or indifferent to the uninitiated, that is their practical nature suppressing emotion in the name of action and progress. Scorpios are also capable of incredibly deeprooted jealousy. They are vengeful and if disrespected, will very rarely if EVER allow an encore of the slight to occur. This may make Scorpios sound mean and petty, spiteful and sneaky...but they are good hearted people who just don't get all worked up about things like the rest of us do. They choose practical progressive results over emotionally-charged rhetoric. Which is why we need the Scorpios in the world. They are the executors...the managers. They are the ones who push from behind with their energetic example and their equally enthusiastic critiques of our performance. They are the ones who tell the little white lies that keep feelings from getting hurt and sensibilities from getting wounded when compromise is called for. Their political natures get things done where the politically naive would fail. Add to this a true compassion for the needy and downtrodden which finds it's outlet not in demonstrative outpourings of sympathy...but instead in something infinitely more valuable: Practical Assistance After awhile you can't help but like a Scorpio... Guess that's because, everything else aside...they're PRACTICALLY perfect. 010712 ... nocturnal at work ooh. danny's an aquarius? aquarians are psychic. 010712 ... emily scorpio i'm very sexual,you know 010712 ... nocturnal at work daffy, I hate to get into any kind of conversation with you, but are you basing all your "information" on just one book? 010712 ... Dafremen Heheh...don't you think that would be a bit uncharacteristic of me? When I read Libra the very first day I found that book, my jaw about dropped to the floor. I went to Cancer..(the missus) same thing...just blown away. After Taurus (my son) that was it...I decided that I needed to investigate further. I conducted approximately 157 discreet interviews. In 132 of them, I described the sun sign information from that book in the form of questions. I threw out all of the references to the planetary magnetic influences and the lunar vibrations and the Godfearing turn of the century Christian rhetoric and stuck to the personality traits described. So a typical interview consisted of a series of questions relating to the persons sun sign. Each response was recorded as either positive, negative or inconclusive. In 21 of the interviews I switched the sun sign information. In other words, I tried to MISMATCH the information. The same procedure was followed.(With results in STARK contrast to the first 132) The last 4 interviews I attempted to guess the Sun Sign based on the answers to a series of questions. (This is EXTREMELY difficult...especially with perfect strangers) In 3 out of those five...I nailed it. In two I was wrong. Those two were both Geminis. After approximately 8 months of doing nothing in my spare time but interviewing people on the internet and in person I had reached the conclusion that there IS something to this stuff. I'd also come to the conclusion that this isn't about prediction through mystical cosmic transcendental energy fields, but about an educated guess based upon observed probabilities. After I had verified my results and decided that this indeed seemed to be a genuine phenomenon, I needed to understand why. (Don't get me wrong...I wasn't searching for truth..I'd already found that..I was looking for some rational explanation for the truth to placate my logic oriented mind. It wasn't a fact of necessity, but rather one of ego and conscience that I sought.) I spent probably 2 months thinking about this question: WHAT do people born at the same time of the year have in common that might explain this similarity in their personalities? I came up with a few things: They are all made of the same basic material. Human stuff. The sun, which provides heat and light and whose gravitational pull affects everything in this solar system, was in relatively the same position for each of them. This means that day and night were of similar lengths for people born around the same time. This also means that people born at the same time of the year experienced either the lengthening of days or the shortening of days at the beginning of THEIR year.(Being one year from the time of their birth) While I was pondering this...the whole everything is made of the same stuff revelation hit me and I was pretty awestruck by what I saw in my mind's eye and at the words which I had never spoken before pouring out of my mouth as tears streamed down my face. That was pretty intense...but unrelated..sort of. Anyhow...a logical explanation arose as a result of long hours of thought and I was finally able to enjoy the knowledge I had stumbled across, knowing that if forced into the role of Hippy Ko0k I would be able to logically defend my position. If I had been UNABLE to logically defend my position, then I would have put the results of my research in the back of my mind and waited to form my conclusions until a logical explanation surfaced. No, noc...I don't take any ONE source's word for anything. I verify and back up my results. If I am fooled, it's certainly not because I allowed anyone to fool me other than myself. And I know myself entirely too well to fall for my own bullsh*t. P.S. I have found one other book which seems to contain predominately accurate information: LOVE SIGNS 010712 ... Dafremen P.S. Make that in the last 5 interviews I tried to guess. 3 I guessed, 2 were Gems. Also note that the total number of interviews was higher than 157, but some interviews we incomplete and so only the answers given were counted. 010712 ... nocturnal at work I highly recommend The Birthday Book. I'm not 100% sure that's the title, I'll check when I get home, but it's the same thing except for each day of the year. some say it's entirely incorrect, but I wondered when I first read it whether the author might know me and had written the April 17 page about me in particular. it was eery how accurate it was. 010712 ... The Truth Well, don't forget that all things are related, and that interconnectedness with our clock-like universe definately plays a part in shaping our personalities. The positions of the stars, planets, comets, everything combined causes slight fluctuations at the subatomic level that, after trickling, can actually play an important role in determining a BASE for our personalities. But that base can easily be altered by upbringing environment, attitudes and knowledge. That's my theory anyway...like most of my theories, I DON'T double check, I don't wait until I know for sure... They just come to me, and I tell them to you people. 010712 ... Dafremen That's probably the closest you've come yet to your namesake. 010712 ... Dafremen Yea send me the name noc....I'd like to check it out. I have become much more open minded, but no less cautious in forming my conclusions. After all I'm a Libra...getting to the truth comes naturally to us. (Virgos are pretty damned good at TRICKING folx into spilling the beans those clever bastages.(As a software engineer I'm surrounded by Virgos 3 to 1 over any other sign in a department of 800 people. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me they're EVERYWHERE in this profession.)) 010712 ... nocturnal it's called "The Secret Language of Birthdays" by Gary Goldschneider and Joost Elffers. It not only has information on every day of the year, but also a section called, "The Grand Cycle of Life," a section that analyzes the seasons, another for your run-of-the-mill twelve signs, a discussion on the 48 periods, and then finally, discussions of each day of the year. very informative if you ask me. when ever I meet a new person and find out their birthday, the first thing I do is look them up to get to know them better before I actually get to know them better. and on a somewhat related note, but not really, isn't Joost Elffers about the coolest name you ever heard? 010712 ... Dafremen P.S. Noc...as a follow up to your first question about my SOURCES of information I wanted to confirm that I DID have other sources for each of those paragraphs that I wrote up above. I pulled the Taurus one from a composite of every Tauran I know and what both I was taught by reading that book and what I've come to OBSERVE as common likes, dislikes, lifestyles and what-not of people that share the sign of Taurus. My learning is far from over. Each time I meet people anymore it's been fascinating for me because I am suddenly given the sight to see from someone's perspective besides my own...not only THAT but I can honestly see the characteristics in little things about them and it is a very gratifying experience to finally have some sort of tool that helps me understand the PEOPLE around me. Science is great and I'm a huge afficionado as anyone who knows me is well aware. But science is always looking OUT there or DOWN there and I know how most of the THINGS and FORCES in my life will behave(thanks to science...love ya science!)so there's no huge gap in my knowledge that I'll miss there for now. What's REALLY missing in all of our lives is understanding of one another and why we see things from the perspective that we do. Not everyone has the gift of being able to see from another's point of view. Geminis are good at it...a few other signs as well, but I know I get stationed in the Phillipines for two weeks and I'm speaking Tagalog like a friggin native, shopping in the markets. Not to be a poser either...it's like I REALLY want to know where they're coming from or something so I don't want to seem to foreign to them. Same thing in Texas and sh*t where they have accents. I constantly pick the damned things up. It's annoying. I come back home sounding like I'm with Bronco Billy's Wild West Show and saying y'all evokes smirks from the lokels here in Illinois. Man what kind of f*cking post script is THIS? (Ok so posting loaded when yer me is a potentially dangerous proposition..) Ok so Taurus came from the book, my son david and Francisco (He's boyfriend of my wife's best friend) with a little of what I've picked up about DB from his blatherings mixed in. Find the common features of those people and you have a good picture. Having a son or close relative helps, you know more intimate details things like the joke that was told before and how it felt...stuff like that(I felt SOOO bad when I hopped in my son's shoes...really bad because I had told him about telling the same joke...several times). Cancer was the book, my wife, my daughter(They're IDENTICAL physically(well I mean if you were to look at my wife when she was my daughter's age) and personalitywise...it's astonishing...you really gotta see it to appreciate it!), a person named surrealchereal that you might've seen once or twice...she's a cool lady from another message board that my reactive blathering got me kicked off of when I gave the guy who STARTED the site his very own "shut-the-f*ck-up" blather, let's see for the Cancer guys I used My grandfather, my dad's next door neighbor, a guy in my clan named Peanutman(he's an AWESOME human being), A guy I used to work with named Ray(he was 63 and an artist...grew some killer booya too Cancers and plants...man I tell ya.) with a touch of our well meaning if not somewhat imaginative friend The Truth. Take those people and find some of the commonalities and you have a pretty good picture of Cancer people in general. Find the commonalities in the women...and you have a gender based similarity that explains differences between the sexes as the book suggested there were. If these traits describe other people it is really unimportant...do they give ENOUGH detail that it can help you empathize with or at least UNDERSTAND where this other human being is coming from? If the answer is yes then whether or not it also could apply to your next door neighbor or all people born in Lithuania who wear green socks is irrelevant. (You might want to see if perhaps those Lihtuanian people are Cancers too...green seems to be a favorite color among Cancer folx...and brown.) At this point it need only serve to broaden our understanding of perspectives OTHER than our own to be considered information worth legitimate consideration. I believe this information meets and perhaps even exceeds that requirement each and every day that I use it in relating with people...the most illogical objects on the planet. 010712 ... Dafremen I'm gunna GET a copy of that book girl...what's the ISBN if you have it? About the name: Joost Elffers is absolutely the second coolest REAL name I have ever seen. The first is a guy that I used to work with named Mo Dust which is absolutely the all time coolest name any human being has had the privilege to carry from birth if you ask me...even better than Dweezil or Moon Unit Zappa and DEFINITELY better than Dewey Beaver(heheheh gawd that's awful the doctor should have slapped his parents) of Southern California phone book fame. (The listing showed Dewey & Pansy Beaver I'm NOT sh*ttin' you.) That guy definitely gets my vote for the most original prank caller friendly name. But Jo0st Elffers rox....don't get me wrong...it just ain't Mo Dust...that's all I'm saying. 010712 ... nocturnal ISBN: 0-670-85857-9 I got mine at good ol' B&N. it was a little over $35, but well worth it. I'm sure you could find it somewhere for cheaper, though. those people just love over charging. 010712 ... Dafremen P.P.S. I just realized what a bad idea it is to slight a Scorpio (looks over in Sol's direction for some sort of indication...which of course is NOT forthcoming...damned Scorpios! Foiled again.) so I had better list the individuals used for Scorpio: Ok well there was the book, a guy I worked with for 5 years and who was a good friend, another guy I worked with as well who wasn't as good a friend but who was still a comfortable aquaintance. I went to one's wedding. Then there was the little info I picked up on my biological mother (I'll resist the urge to say anything derogatory about this pathetic, misguided piece of sh*t), there was a quake player I ICQ'd with for awhile as well. Finally I tried to throw a bit o' Sol in the mix to give it an extra touch of class. Remember..I don't KNOW you Sol...so what I picked up from your writing was dignity and a certain coolness that I also have recognized in others. Remember also that there were many many others of other signs...at least 157...and I got to know little things about each of them as well along the way. At least 110 or so of those interviews were conducted via AIM or Quake2. Whatever I could notice I tried to notice so that I could compare later mentally and on paper. So I think that's really the whole idea of this thing. It's a way of drawing conclusions on probabilities based on something that someone noticed over 6,000 years ago...probably a shaman who had nothing better to do than sit around and smoke weed and listen to people bitch about the troubles in their lives. So that's what I'm doing...I'm just looking and comparing...and enjoying...I love people now...I just don't like them all in the same place making decisions...that's all. 010712 ... nocturnal oh, I was thinking the other day about that time you wrote about how you can never say no to a leo. josh, one of my friends who's a leo has the same power over me. he's recently persuaded me to do 2 things I was originally dead set against. I can't imagine how he does it, but he always get a yes out of me in the end. my other leo friend, greg, has the same effect. it drives me crazy! 010712 ... Dafremen P.P.S. But you also have an engaging sense of humor as well Sol. Don't think I got the wrong impression. : ) 010712 ... Dafremen I know how you feel noc...it freaks me out when that happens because I don't usually have a problem telling ANYONE no. 010712 ... mistaken I don't have many leo friends... but the few that I am friends with...they are crazy nuts and always get me to do stuffs... (now that I think about it). I never knew that about Leos or anything, but since it was brought up...crazy... also: I have that book! "The Secret Language of Birthdays"...Its really good. I think it was like 27 dollars at Costco in Hawaii :) my friend tried stealing it from me but I got it back. ha! I love taurus ppl because they are so stubborn...Nick is a taurus, and he's stubborn on things that really matter...and then these little arguments we have, and when it turns out that I'm right its funny how he tries to justify his thinking...then he gets in a bad mood....but its fun in the end... lallallalala 010712 ... nocturnal your friend nick sounds just like my friend napoleon. even when I have proven beyond a doubt that he is full of shit, he won't give up until I admit that his shit is valid and important. it's ridiculous. 010712 ... Dafremen Sh*t is both valid AND important....just ask KX21 010712 ... johnny west Bullshit. Shit can go fuck itself. 010712 ... Dafremen Hiya JOHNNY! 010712 ... birdmad pisces, easily depressed, and as a result, frequently drunk 010712 ... Dafremen Heya bird..I'll have Pisces type in probably this weekend, I apologize for the delay and I hope it doesn't affect your already delicate sense of self worth. By the way...I happen to have a softspot in my heart for Pisceans. In Einstein I found a kindred spirit. Turns out Professor Seward mentions THAT in his book as well.(Not about Einstein(although THAT would be cool) about the Libra-Pisces connection.) 010712 ... yummychuckle nonononononono you can't do that. don't go (vhskfsi(jdslkvj) you can't. (bhskhsk,) would be correct. but not (fghj(koj) how DARE you. 010712 ... Sol (just missed the bus) hey, liking this, keep on stroking my ego hehe, your description was fairly accurate, I was impressed, better than russel grant, or whatever the bejumpered startwit calls himself. although the slightly insane organisational aspect is um, overstated at least, you'd have to knwo me to gain a full apreciation of the valididty of that... 010713 ... nocturnal damnit! you missed the bus? I hope you've been catching up on your sleep young man. doesn't sound like it if you missed the bus. 010713 ... Dafremen Hey Sol....I went back and read the whole thing. There's a reason that the organizational thing didn't seem to fit. It's not there. No the word ORGANIZED doesn't come to mind when I think of Scorpio..when I say organized I'm thinking Capricorn. Like a big porch layin' possum chasin' houn' dawg I'm sayin....Capricorns are absolutely dripping with organization. : ) 010713 ... MollyCule I'm a Leo. And a damned stereotypical one at that. 010713 ... Dafremen Ok all of you fish folx...Pisces is done. - Find it at: - http://www.gnarf.net/users/dafremen/Zodiac/Pisces.htm - Sorry it took so long. - Thank you. - That is all. - Stop reading now. - Please. - - - Ok...this is really getting irritating... - - - - Cmon! Just go look at the page...pleeeeease?! - - - - FINE! That's it I'm leaving! )SLAM( 010715 ... MollyGoLightly taurus sun born on cusp of taurus and aries aquarius rising leo moon i think i lucked out, personally 010717 ... Dafremen I know the feeling... 010717 ... *Ziima* Taurus. I am Taurean in every sense. Not kidding. But i'm proud (surprise.) to be Taurean. Damn proud. 010719 ... Dafremen Nothing wrong with that. You should be. Just imagine how proud you'd be if you were Libran. 010720 ... claudia anybody wanna make a chart for an imbalanced sagittarius? any takers? 010720 ... Allie my cousin was born this year on the 5th of july..woopeee...me on the other hand Scorpio. 010720 ... bloody potato chip i'm a librarian 010720 ... User24 Sagittarius. Not that I think it makes the blindest bit of difference to my personality. I belive we can all make our own selves. If we choose. 010809 ... Teenage Jesus Taurus (Aries cusp 4/25) Virgo rising Scorpio Moon Linda Goodman's book is a good one. 010809 ... Fire&Roses I am Aries. They say he was the god of war. I suppose that makes me tough or something. I never really bought into astrology. Science isn't my thing. I know other Aries. Infact my closest friends are Aries. We're all different. I geuss it doesn't really matter in the end because all that time you spent defining a person by their birthday could have been used to actually know the person. But since you asked... I am Aries. 010810 ... Dafremen claudia - I haven't investigated into Predictive Astrology and so I know nothing about charts. I haven't really been impressed with the "mainstream" presentation of predictive astrology. If you look at encyclopedias from the 1900s and then you look at some from around the 50s and 60s you'll see how mainstream science had Astrology represented as the study of how the stars affect our fates. This is completely false. Astrology is the science of understanding through reflective observation. Lerning and building upon a database of observed patterns in human behavior. Good luck with the chart, sorry I couldn't help. Allie - Hurrah! bloody potato(e Quayle-style...)chip - Welcome aboard...you've met unhinged, florescent, lost and yummychuckle aka "stickypants" I assume? All in the club too. It's getting to be a rather large club. User24 - I agree with you one hundred percent about the free will choice thing. We are ALL individuals and our personalities reflect this. We're also material things subject to the same laws as all material things, some of those affecting the formation and development of our brains at a very basic level. I hope you haven't assumed that what I'm talking about is fate or some mumbo jumbo. As important as the truth is to YOU I would expect you not to close your mind so readily to the possibilities(each one holding possibility of truth). Furthermore, unless you fall in the Cusp, you've got amazing powers of concentration, folx probably assume yer ignoring them sometimes when you're just deeply engrossed in whatcher doing at the time. Yea I know, that describes a lot of people right? Not like you and those like you. No Sags are righteously good people and very perceptive, which is why once again I'm curious as to why so many Sags are quick to judge. You and Virgos are quick to discard something that upon closer examination proves to be based on sound scientific possibilities, not mumbo jumbo. If you would take a second and read the blathers at the beginning of this one I think you will find two things that will at least be of entertainment value to you. The first is my explanation of what I believe is at least the general principle upon which humanistic astrology is based. It is logical and irrefutably reasonable. I am not a ko0k, I'm a computer geek since I was 9. I investigated this...there's something to it and it doesn't impose upon freewill. The second thing you will find is that I mention TWO types of people that have been more likely to be skeptics than any others. The first are Virgos the second Sagittarians. The Virgo folx are extremely analytical and need to analyze something in order to believe it to be so. If they can't see it, smell it, feel it(physically or emotionally), taste it or hear it, it's hooey. They don't see the connection and that's somewhat understandable. But Sags are about truth, also great at telling when someone is lying to them. You're great judges of character and loyal friends to the few close friends you MAY have. I really don't understand why Sags are so likely to be skeptics..it's strange. Anyhow, here's a tip from the Dafster and you can take it or leave it and as much as you probably HATE to be contradicted, you'll probably leave it..I hope not: Read just those two blathers of mine at the top. If it looks feasible, check out the Sag entry at http://www.gnarf.net/users/dafremen/Zodiac/ You'll be glad ya did...tell em "Daf sent ya". (Big THUMBS UP here aaaaaand...CUT!! Ok that's a wrap.) Fire&Roses - Hey there. Yea it's a bunch of hooey alright, of course...maybe not. Everyone is different. If I told you that a Picasso and a Rembrandt would both burst into flames if thrown into a fire would you think I was saying that either one was any less a unique and individual work of art? Of course not, furthermore you might ask yourself how the hell I could possibly KNOW that a Rembrandt and a Picasso would burn, having never seen it or done it. The answer is simple, I know that paint burns and I know that canvas burns and I know that wood burns. I know that the basic materials of these paintings will behave in a certain manner because I've observed similar materials under similar conditions. It's that simple. The Picasso is still the only one of it's kind and certainly more than the sum of it's basic components and their natural behaviors. No you are the Rembrandt, your friend the Picasso and Aries is the paint,canvas and frame upon which you become who you are and who you will eventually be. No fate, no hocus pocus, simple basic materials and how they behave. Science baby, it's beautiful. And YOU are just the constant thinker to ponder the question long enough to figure out the answer. Don't see this as a contest between you and the nonsense that is astrology, your natural compulsion to win will make it difficult for your normally open mind to do it's thing. Once you get into that mind set your stubborn streak'll set in and then where are you? Missing out on good information do0d. That's no place to be. Give it a read, I know THAT won't be unpleasant for you. If it's just entertaining, hey so be it, you were entertained. The URL is in this blather. I hope it helps you understand the people around you better. That's really what it's there for...not for know-it-all @ssholes like me to go around understanding people and trying to convince them to check it out. P.S. If you folx read the book. Remember it was written at the turn of the century. There's a lot of God fearing divine plan rhetoric in the book. Just mentally skip that stuff if you like. It's ok, we get to do that, we're looking for the DATA he has to offer, not his take on what the meaning behind that data is.(Although he may be right and then won't I be eating turd balls in some little bathroom stall somewhere with bad poetry on the walls while baby_satan force feeds me Sockroda Poppers til I puke...for eternity?) Throw out the Magnetic vibrations and other turn of the century science and planetary alignmentstoo, it's once again NOT what we're looking for. We're looking for specific traits. Talents and flaws. Physical attributes..he has those too believe it or not and he's pretty damned good. Hit my description on the nose.(Shorter type of Libra, blue eyes, rounded forehead.) It's all about probabilities, which means nothing is definite or permanent, only likely. Nuff said..I think. 010810 ... sykoze just one quick question (or several)- i know nothing of astrology and stuff, but if you say it works on probablity and stuff, how do you know how accurate your predictions are? A good track record does not mean that there isnt a possiblity - read up on richard feynman's report on the challenger tragedy for an excellent exposition on that - Just saying that there is, at least in my mind, a very fine line between order and chaos, with the two intertwining all the time. Are your predictions meant for the majority of those in a sign, because there really is no way of knowing in this increasingly hectic and chaotic world what experiences one has had, and what influences may have conspired together to establish thoughts and morals in someone. Just curious oh and by the way, im a leo, first day of it - in a cusp i guess.... 010902 ... distorted tendencies I'm an Aquarian. 010902 ... Dafremen Heya sykoze - Excellent question. Let me attempt to give an answer by starting off with a little story: Yesterday I walked about 6 miles with my wife and kids(gawd I hate exercise.) At the turn-around spot was this campground that we had hosted a year back, so we stopped to see who the new campground host was. We didn't know them, but we talked with them for a little while, and it wasn't until I was shaking everyone's hands, as I was leaving, that I noticed that one of the gentlemen I was talking to didn't have any legs. I was surprised. Why? I was surprised, because I went into this conversation with a few basic assumptions out of the way. One of those assumptions was that everyone had all of their legs. This assumption was neither central to the conversation nor was it a consciously formed assumption. It was based upon all of my experience with all of the strangers that I have EVER struck up conversations with. See there are a LOT of people missing legs. Millions of em I imagine, but the probabilities are still good that when you meet strangers they will have all of their legs. The chances get even slimmer of them missing legs if upon first sight you don't NOTICE any missing legs. So IMAGINE my surprise...when lo and behold..after a 10 minute conversation...this guy had no legs. That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a few basic assumptions that, SURE, are NOT predictions or guaranteed sure-fire facts, (But I guarantee that somewhere beneath all of the layers of our personalities you will find these common foundations among the various types of peoples), more likely than not though, they WILL be sound assumptions about personality. THAT is where the REAL benefit of this information comes in. Conversation without REAL understanding is little more than audio communication. Bio walkie-talkies if you will. BY understanding or ASSUMING some basic things about people we are communicating with, more likely than not, we will understand the WHY behind some of their decisions. We will be able to present our case in a way that allays their fears and insecurities, better, helping us to communicate OUR intention to a person who sees the world from a different perspective. Why? Because now we understand some of the basic premises of that perspective. Might we be wrong? Yes. Will we be wrong...PROBABLY not. As a cusp it's going to be hard for someone to describe you as satisfactorily as some of these folx have heard themselves described. I know that makes it seem even more like a bunch of crap. Try this: look at the people around you with same (non cusp) signs. Compare their personalities...looking for those things they share...then another...same sign and another...pretty soon a picture will emerge. Then turn to that sign in the book. That's how this stuff works... I hope that was helpful. (Course I WOULD.) 010903 ... unhinged i'm having such an insanley libra-arian moment right now it's far beyond funny 010903 ... TalviFatin Taurus, Rising Taurus. 010903 ... lost i am a libra. why do i have to be a libra? why can't i be some sign that doesnt give a shit about people? A sign that doesnt get screwed(i dont mean sexually cuz that would be nice) all the time. 010907 ... Inanna In American astrology, I was born on a cusp. I am a cancer/gemini. In Chinese astrology, I am a fire dragon. 010907 ... Dafremen Don't worry lost. It'll become clear when you've had a bit more experience. You'll come to learn four things in particular: 1. People are best cared for at a distance. Learn to say no, so that you don't get overburdened with promised favors. Learn to help them by helping yourself first. 2. The more mistakes you make, the better you get at guessing.(Have I mentioned that I'm considered a pretty damned good guesser?) So having life kick you in the teeth is a blessing in disguise...ride the storm out and learn from your mistakes. 3. You don't need anyone's opinion but your OWN in the end. That's partly due to the fact that you automatically take everyone elses comfort and happiness into account in your decision making processes(including your own of course.) Your first impressions will be correct...more and more often as you learn to TRULY rely on them more. 4. Being a Libra has the potential to be the single greatest thing that has ever happened to you. All you have to do is LET yourself be a Libra, with no regrets. 010907 ... l_o_s_t well i have noticed that my first impression is generally correct. I always go on it now. the first thing that i think is generaly what i always do. I needed a reminder of that right now. theres this chick that i like. she is very good looking and has the sweetest personality. i knew she wanted to get with me last year and wasnt sure this year and my first thought was to just go for it and for some reason i am nervous when i am around her. i havent ben nervous around a chick since i was 12. i can generally keep my calm and cool. 010912 ... Dafremen Coming Soon: wazyersign_condensed 011025 ... sabbie 'here be dragons' its on my front door. 011026 ... dionysos double gemini + leo rising = hot air 020327 ... mahayana [stop] fucking with me 020413 ... kerry pisces and proud of it, baby, because pisces rocks the zodiac. oh yes. and i'm not just saying that. i truly am proud of my sign... everything i read about it, i love. and all pisceans aren't weepy and over-sensitive... we're mainly just... adaptable... changeable. fickle, you may want to say. i am a true pisces. 2/27 020413 ... girl_jane I was born April 15th. That makes me an Aries. 020414 ... Aimee happy birthday girl_jane! Daffy... i have found a strange paradox... okay maybe not a paradox, but it's got me wondering.... Your birthday is Oct. 14 as is my brother's, yet I absolutely despise him and absolutely adore you... essplain! :) 020415 ... girl_jane Thanks, Aimee. 020416 ... Dafremen I'm willing to bet that not having to live in close quarters with me as you do with him would probably explain that "paradox" Aimee. I'm about as difficult to live with as any human being that I know. 020504 ... radiojosh So, first of all, I think that predictive astrology is a load of bunk because the star-charts that are used, aren't they like, more than 2000 years old? Over that amount of time, the orientation of planets and stars can become distorted (slightly) which would make it inexact or inaccurate. Second of all, I think that often times, the information received out of somebody about their personality can be drastically affected by the thought model process being used. You can approach it form an astrological standpoint, or you may approach it from a personality profile standpoint, something based on the four main characteristics of personality, for instance, I'm an ENFP. Third of all, what do the books say about Capricorns? I'm interested in whether or not a "learned person" would have a better understanding of me than say, one of those personality type books. 020505 ... Joana. I am a very proud Scorpio [for some bizarre reason] 020505 ... skivvy We become shadows of ourself... 020526 ... freakizh cancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancercancer from june 30, 1984. 020527 ... Dafremen Silly crab...my my but I forget myself...as silly as you folx get you still don't like having it pointed out to you (as more often than not, it is. My apologies.) Cappy, I'll try to write a little about you folx one of these days. I've been so busy these days living up to my name that I haven't devoted much time to disseminating the info that has come my way. Most Caps that I know have a more than casual fondness for their mothers. They are ORGANIZED in the extreme (although to their highly organized minds, they are simply living up to their responsibilities and usually wish that they could do more.) Capricorns are born leaders, but they prefer to lead from the sidelines, steering the scene with subtlety and extreme foresight. It is said of these children that they are born old, growing younger with every passing year. I know my good buddy Ice is as dependable as the air I breath...perhaps more so, but in that highly organized man beats the heart of a rocker. (Insane AC/DC fan he is.) For some reason if he can't live up to a committment, he feels compelled to apologize a lot. I'll get to insights_into_capricorn one of these days. 020527 ... pralines&cream speaking of capricorns ... I am one 020527 ... god i'm a scorpitarius 020620 ... jane i'm a sagittarius, born on november 26th...does that make me on the cusp? anyway, i read a book by linda goodman (i think) called love signs (again, i think)...and i have also read my day in the secret language of birthdays over at my friend angie's house. that was so right on i was shocked...and i tried to read other days of people i knew, but i think you have to be born on that day to appreciate the overall feeling you can get from reading the pages. i definitely recommend going to a bookstore and looking up your birthday. oh yeah and daf after this i'm going to go to that website and look up my sign...so thanks! 020620 ... little bug i live, underneath the radar 020621 ... Sailor Jupiter Virrrrgo 020621 ... no reason ~fishy~ 020621 ... Mahayana Scorpio :] 020621 ... angie I am a Capricorn/Sagittarius cusp. December 22nd 1983. I still have problems trying to understand myself...I wish it were easier...why do I have to be these two extremely complicated and sometimes contradicting signs? They are very similar in most ways...but there are a few things...that just plain leaves me a confused girl. Anyone else have this problem? 020627 ... Romiette Angie.... I was born Dec. 22 too! And i am one confused girl as well. Why oh why must i have been born on such a perplexing cusp... 020628 ... angie Wow! That is awesome! I did manage to find some websites on our cusp...but...they just don't explain everything. 020628 ... angie OH...and I had something very odd to add as well...I have been pretty much best friends with my friend Elizabeth who is an aquarius and was born on february 12th...and she went to a different high school than me but we are still friends...but as weird as this sounds...she has a really good friend at the school she goes to and she just HAPPENED to have the SAME birthday as me. Now if that is not weird...I don't know what is. AND this guy who i was sorta messing around with awhile ago ended up liking this other girl whose birthday was ONE day after mine! Weird weird stuff. It is the stuff like this that makes me believe in horoscopes completely. 020628 ... girl_jane I am an aries, and I fit my sign very very well. So well, in fact, that I even have the aries sign tattooed on my body. 030502 ... cube You're gonna regret getting that tattoo after you change your sign ya know. Probably leave a scar. ³ 030502 ... Grace March the 3rd "Pisces (me)..was.. Christians ,now.. I know the whole chart.. My Husband "Cancer"..was.. I used to be an astrologer Now, I don't practice it really,anymore.. I have opinions,impressions,on it, all.. 030502 ... pobodys nerfect I'm a Gemini (June 18), and I'm very much like the description of those born under it--it seems that for every interest/piece of clothing/style of music, etc. that I have, I have an exact opposite of it that I'm equally fond of. *sigh* I need more space... :) 030502 ... Grace Same exactly, almost every description.. For us both.. *Shrugs.. Not so much the negative stuff.. 030502 ... phil chicks 030502 ... ø ø 030502 ... Dafremen : ) 030503 ... splinken tauries [aurus?] 030503 ... x danger: high voltage 030503 ... rubydee capricorn. not an especially organized one, other than the repository in my head 030503 ... Dafremen see also: wazyersign_condensed 030503 ... Diabla I'M A PROUD TAUREAN!!!! 030507 ... phil pedestrian crosswalk 030606 ... a sweet girl red fire dragon 030606 ... neesh does anyone know anything about the "new-age" signs which incorporate both your chinese year and your sun sign? it makes sense, as both would have an influence on you, and for example a taurus/tiger would be more artistic and imaginative than an extremely practical and wholly sensible taurus/ox. i'm a scorpio/ox. i had a book on it, which i could give details for, if anyone's interested. 030607 ... libra/dragon I'm a dragon too! Please tell me about Libra/Dragon, neesh. 030607 ... neesh lucky you! or rather, lucky anyone who knows you; my sister and her husband are both libra/dragons (and most other kinds of dragons have trouble getting on, it's a constant power struggle), and they're pretty much perfect. you take all the charisma, creativity, magicalness, drive and strength of a dragon, and mix it with the harmony, eloquence, friendliness, practicality and kindness of a libra, and this is what you get. (a friend has the book atm, but i'll get it off her tomorrow and give the actual definition to you then) 030609 ... iwanttoknowwhoiam what about dog/capricorn? 030609 ... neesh i re-read libra/dragon, and realised i disagree with her (suzanne white) about the nature of Librans; in my experience, and i'm friends with quite a few Librans, they're not "manipulators". they do demand control in their life, but not usually over others, more over themselves and their environment. and they're not as financially driven as she suggests either, nor egotistical, though they do desire success. my only explanation for this is that she's american, and as such the people around her are more money-minded (no offence any americans reading this, but as a generalisation it is generally true) and self-centred. see what you think: libra_dragon i did capricorn_dog too, but i don't know any dogs, and only a couple of capricorns, so i can't really comment. btw the book's called "The New Astrology", i'll see if i can find any others like it. 030612 ... Novice I'm a Leo 030715 ... Novice Hey Neesh can you tell me about a Leo/Tiger??? 030715 ... Dafremen Why thank you neesh. : ) 030715 ... Syrope i'm aries...and apparently i'm looking for a libra guy *bats eyelashes* 030716 ... Death of a Rose left lane ends 031017 ... nemo scorpio 040323 ... falling_alone love your descriptions Daf.. ( ) O is a Taurus 040324 ... iNsEcUrE_GoTh_GiRl hey neesh im an aries/earth snake (i read it in this chinese book, but that was years ago) do you have any info on me please? 040328 ... ambermoon scorpio-november.12.1978 ...scorpios rock!!!!... 040329 ... love & hate I'm a Leo, the lion, king of the jungle and ruler of all the other signs as i am ruled by the sun itself. Leo's rock! 040423 ... spiffy a bot in this chat room is always, always asking, "what is your sign?" and i just want to strangle him for it. i spose it is kinda of funny though. 040625 ... dudeinanigloo MEN WORKING 040702 what's it to you? who go blather from