let's_debate kss okay. I like a good debate, but the topic of me being a hypocite and an asshole is starting to sting a little. anyone have another topic? Spork? Daf? Ambience? How about something really profound, like death penalty, or freedom of speech, or why the French are such crybabies? c'mon, it will be fun! 030703 ... ferret world hunder? religeon? ciggies? potty mouths? (lol) The_Truth? where kx21 lives? where i live? where canada lives? where cow_mu lives? or what about where U_whole lives? 030703 ... jane what is m_question? 030703 ... User24 what is the defining characteristic of humanity? 030703 ... x a subset of genes 030703 ... misstree language, maybe? no... tool_use? no... warfare? no... playfulness? no... concept_of_time? philosophy? NO! It's that we're not afraid of vacuum cleaners. 030703 ... User24 a subset of genes, is that what defines us? many say yes, many say no. On a purely realistic level, yes, flesh defines us, we are defined by flesh, but what seperates us from all other life? dogs have genes and flesh, but we are not dogs, there are differences, beyond the physical. Is it the way our society has evolved, the way we interact? it could be, but then the question must be asked why has it evolved this way? is there a guiding purpose behind our social evolution, or is it random, like our physical evolution? If it's guided, is it a divine inspiration that leads us, or does it come from within ourselves, or is it even something that only develops through our interaction with others? and what if it is random? does that take anything away from our value as a race? and do the reasons actually matter in the long run? How would our race be seen by outsiders? they would surely see the wars and the inequalities, so is that what defines us? inequality and differences; our individuality, perhaps? maybe they'd also see our similarities? we all struggle, but for the same things; power, love, belief, maybe these define us? or perhaps, we are defined by our philosophy, our outlook on life; the very fact that we have an outlook, even, maybe our defining characteristic is the fact that we wonder? 030703 ... x dogs have largely the same genes, but like i said, it is a subset that differs. 030703 ... velocipede rider of the 1890s mass_debate 030703 ... IKC 56-80 writes a poem dogs and bears share more genes ursine, canine strychnine ernest borgnine ain't no sunshine 030703 ... User24 why is it the genes, is there nothing else? could there by anything else? etc. debate, not answer in one line thus killing the conversation. (no offence meant) 030704 ... kss dogs and bears don't share beans, or wait...do they? I think it's world hunder that leading to a mess of misunderstanding like this. cripes, what a mess 030715 ... oldephebe see oldephebes third post in the blathepage _let us be real_ I'm not being narcissistic or shamelessly self promoting ah let's eschew all the overt modesty for once - It strikes me that my third post to the blatherpage let us be real (if we're talking about the firgurative, spiritual sense of being human) we had got off on a tangant about the "realness" of being human and how Hamlet perfectly embodies mans essential incongruities, and yet his desire to always know and grow - umm someone said something about the thousand shocks of life? that flesh is heir to - (someone quoting Hamlet, and me making a mishmosh omigosh of it in trying to paraphrase) so that's why i say go to: let us be real - to see what oldephebe and several others say about the quality of being human. In search of something pithy to put and end to all these parenthetical gyrations .. hmmm it seems my meager store house of the wry and the witty has been depleted .. 030715 ... rock hurling star of prehistory Dogs and bears are both canids, they descend from a common mammalian ancestor, at least according to what fossil records suggest. 030715 ... Dafremen I'll jump into this one. The defining characteristic of the human species is our ability to stare at that which created us, ponder it and be blown away. That's what's always missing when an engineer finishes a project. Someone to see it, know how amazing it is and appreciate how glorious the whole shebang is. Man will never reproduce this, a machine that counts among its creations witnesses to the glory of all of its creations. Our universe is such a machine. Mankind is such a witness. 030715 ... oldephebe succinct and yet sublime - damn I wish i could whittle down the verbiage A svelt and succinct new me, verbally that is. ... 030715 ... User24 no! don't do that! 030731 ... secret4185 I think what defines humans is our communication. Our genes aren't that different, or our brains. I think written language and the complexity of our spoken language defines us as humans. No other being sits down and writes down their thoughts.... or goes online and shares their thoughts with thousands of blather users :-) 040520 ... phil rationalize 040521 ... u24 secret4185, but is that because we're the only species physically capable of such involved communication, or is it because we're the only species mentally capable of such involved communication? If a dog could talk and write, would it? Before we communicate, we must think of something to say. So our standard of communication, while greatly helping our evolution, may not be the defining characteristic. It's an open question, though; how do I define defining (and humanity)? x; do you believe there is nothing beyond the physical? 040712 ... :) Tathagata_Store... 040712 ... Finger The_Surangama_Sutra 040712 ... Moon -3 THE TATHAGATA STORE CONTAINING BOTH NOUMENON AND PHENOMENON 040712 ... kx21 iLink: Soul 040712 ... nonlucid Tempted to say that it's sentience, to be aware of existence and have the power to wonder about things like this - to care about more than physical survival and want more, always be striving. Maybe it's the innovation, working towards something perceived as better, whereas "animals" tend to be more concerned with maintaining the status quo, it seems 040712 ... zeke "man is the symbol making, symbol using symbol abusing animal." solomon burke - language as a symbolic action 040712 ... oops kenneth burke (not solomon) 040712 ... oldephebe yes yes the thousand shocks and such that flesh is heir to okay that those incessant renovations and reverbeations are the essential and ineluctably defining quality of humanity the poignancy the power, the possibility the pain, our soul water stains, bathing in the afterbirth of a loved ones secret harrow, oh god these fractured breaths are all i have sometimes - this is the house of man/woman - god we must be real, take me shake me - tear me up so i know that i'm not dead - life its devestations are endless are as varied as the shades of a womans soul, and even the broken glass that rattles in the back of my throat little archipelegos of shredded things rupturing every time i breath welcome to the world to be real - it ties us up and tears us down when i or we read Hamlet in all his fearsom apprehensions and gyrations and as he encapsulates a world a world in a way that only he can speak it - his humanity his authentic uncanny apprehension and the things it impels Him to say Hamlet is perfectly human - the love of a parent dying slowly on the vine the warm breath between our thighs the taste of a lovers ambrosia kiss the kick in the ass of that train we just missed i mean it all about sculpting and shaping humanity (if any one feels like it see oldephebe on despair) and the third person thing is .. but any way sometimes we shine the brightest the most brilliantly when we're cut (not self immolation or anything though)and (sigh) i guess we've got no choice but to be real or run away from our own lives be real and deal what was it Sarah Mcglauphlin said - the ravages of spirit wrote out this contemptuous rage or something like that get down so you can look up and see the sky and Sarah says a glowing ember burning hot and burning slow (Sarah Mcglauphlin from some song on "Surface") Hamlet went bounding out of his throttled heart, out of his throe and don't forget Anne Iversons inimitable imperial ire can we be for real for real for real for real i would like to be weightless on the surface of water and be unbroken and sometimes i say i'm tired of bein' sober and i can't wait till all this shit is over ... if we can be real and yet still hope ... brightness falling on the Child of Blight well thats my wordsmear i'm done ... 040713 ... and then Fire and Roses said the vivid colors, so bright and touchable, firey lights and cold skies, screaming voices and laughter, the lonely echo of a distant hill, the texture of life rough on your body, the relentlessness of time, the smell of grandmom's christmas turkey burning in your nose, a thousand mocking words floating round your head in a swirl of recrimination, the joy of knowing that you are truly happy, the horror of the truth when you discover that you are truly alone, the burning in your throat as the bile rises up, a million tiny things, that kid in fourth grade who did seventeen chin ups, memories of fireflies in jars, all the words to every song you've ever heard, it's swirling all together into a great chaotic mess... i don't want to be real any more... 040713 what's it to you? who go blather from