know_how_to_pray The Truth Now, before anybody comes to lash out against this, I just wanted to say that I am not trying to convert anyone, I don't want to alter your beliefs, I respect whatever you want to believe in, even nothing, if you want. So keep that in mind while you realize that there ARE indeed a select number of people who, as CRAZY as it seems, actually believe that the Creator of the Universe desires an active, communicative relationship with us. And we ask you to respect that as much as we respect that you want to believe in whatever you want. OK? If you were talking to your father, you wouldn't always say the same exact thing. You wouldn't repeat some memorized chant that covers all the bases, that wouldn't be very loving. So when talking to our heavenly father, why do some of us do that very thing? While it's true that there is no right or wrong way to pray, there are things we can do to strengthen our end of the Relationship with God. I learned this acronym in a bible study group. I thought it was pretty cool, so I'll pass it on to whoever wants it. Hope you enjoy! A.C.T.S. of Praying A. Adoration This is where we say words of praise and love to God. He gets a kick out of hearing how wonderful he is. He loves us so much, why not give a little back to Him. C. Confession This is where we confess to God for the sins we feel guilty about. Some religions think you have to talk to a man in a darkened, little wooden box, I don't know if that is entirely necessary, but I do know that God has engineered our minds to recieve relief upon our confessions. Confession enables God's forgiveness, which will refill you with a passion to try again. T. Thanksgiving You know God always comes through, so it's nice to say "thanks" to him, and let Him know that you appreciate his gifts and blessings. S. Supplication This where we ask God for the Supplies we want, like answers, ideas, resolutions to problems. And also this is where we ask for the things we need, like money, help, peace. Most of us just want to skip right to the supplication, but again, if all you did when you saw your dad was ask him for $20, your relationship wouldn't be as healthy as it could potentially be. 010723 ... dB All I had to do was look at the title to know it was you Truth. Well, considering my religious position I have to say that I will never pray. But considering your position I have to proclaim you the official Blather_Preacher 010723 ... nocturnal amen my brutha! 010723 ... kingsuperspecial I pray every day in my own way. hey hey hey 010723 ... paste! wax on, wax off. we are all the target group. 010723 ... absent but still present i think that if someone wants to repeat the same thing over again as a prayer that is their own choice. prayer essentially is a form self-preservation. when it comes down to it, we don't pray to talk to god, we pray to calm our minds. memorized prayers are much like mantras in eastern religions. when repeated over and over again, they have a way of soothing our anxietys. which is exactly what a healthy spiritual relationship in whatever being you believe in is supposed to do. i don't think there is any wrong way to pray. if you believe an active non-memorized approach gets you closer to god then go for it but i do not believe that is what god had in mind about the whole prayer thing. it was just something he had us think up to ease our minds in times of trouble. 010724 ... kx21 A.C.T.S.of praying... How do you know whether it is right or wrong for God? 010724 ... kx21 Given that Your's ' right ' may be God's ' wrong '... 010724 ... unhinged i guess in the end it doesn't matter how you do but if you do, and even then i don't think god leaves people out just because they don't pray. this is such a subjective point that it is stupid to argue about it. everyone has their own beliefs about god and prayer and how you do it and nothing is wrong or right. 010724 ... The Truth Which is exactly why no one is arguing. We are all merely contributing to a beautiful topic. 010724 ... dB beautiful? Shouldn't that be in Tell_me_a_joke? religion is not beautiful. It's caused more an bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation. And the really funnyl thing is that you B'Bashers have no idea why everybody else barely manages to conceal their contempt when you start your senseless preaching. 010724 ... the guy behind you pssssst! Db, the topic is prayer...got it? ok good? didn't want you to make a bigger jackass out of yourself by making more mistakes like that. Oh, and make sure you think before allowing that vile stench to seep out of your facial orafice again. Don't bash a book you've never read either..that's called ignorance. 010724 ... Weed Eater LOL @ Db!! 010724 ... kx21 What is the knots of the string between Prayer and God? 010724 ... TalviFatin you put your hands together, kneel down, n whisper stuff in your head to a guy who's supposedly listening. 010724 ... unhinged somehow i don't think db was bashing the book, but the people who put all their blind faith in it and don't even bother to think about any other point of view. that is ignorance. and since most of us around here are agnostic or atheist from what i can tell, he is right when he says we really don't appreciate the preaching cause we don't. putting all your faith in one thing that was written a long time ago by HUMAN BEINGS which has since been translated many times sounds like a pretty ignorant idea to me. but since we aren't arguing about anything around here, that's just me. 010724 ... dB Thankyou unhinged. At least you got it. The content of said book/s is fine. "Be nice to each other and don't do bad things" is a good message to have in any book. When people go around killing each other saying their belief is better than everyone elses it's another thing entirely. That is why even praying to me seems a pointless act of misplaced faith. 010724 ... The Truth It is not your fault, in fact, misunderstandings of this nature were predicted by Jesus over 2000 years ago, so I don't blame you in any way for your lack of belief. "They will recieve the truth, but will not understand it, because while they have eyes, they do not see, and having ears, they do not hear." 010724 ... The Truth What wars? if you are talking about the crusades? That wasn't Christianity, that was the Holy Roman Empire...read the books of Daniel 13 and Revelation 7 to figure that out. Besides, that's one war among MANY! More people have died because of mosquitos than christians. Wars have polluted our history FROM THE BEGINNING, and they are seemingly very entertaining for God as well! But in the_grand_scheme_of_things , what's the difference between a lifespan that's one blink of an eye, or half of a blink of an eye, compared to eternity? And I don't know, you must have known that already, you're a smart guy Db. I think you are just trying to cause arguments. Lame. 010724 ... dB I didn't specify christianity. I said RELIGION, as in religion in general. Christians have caused their share of bloodshed, but many others have as well. 010724 ... dB By the way, you contradicted yourself. You used a quote from JC to state that I "do not understand", yet you went on to say I was a smart guy. I'm am not blind to christian ways, I understand them perfectly well, this is because I'm a lapsed catholic. Why did I leave the church? Because even though I might understand the beliefs that you have, I can't JUSTIFY them. It was like beliveing because they told you to, there was no PROOF, and there was no POINT. That is all. 010724 ... The Truth You can still be a smart guy, and lack understanding. There was no contradiction, except by you I'm afraid, who said you understood, yet you failed to see the point??!?!! The proof? Can you proove that atoms exist? can you prove that gravity exists? can you prove that life exists? Can you prove that God does not exist? You have been falsely conditioned to rely on your worthless proofs. And at what cost? 010724 ... nocturnal you can totally prove the existence of atoms and gravity. the existence of life's a bit more complicated, but still arguably simple to recognise as existing. I don't care enough about this shit to go into it, but I had to say something because what you said about those things seriously aggravated me. 010724 ... dB At no cost. We can prove gravity exists. If we couldn't prove atoms exist, explain the fat man. In future think before you say that. Now why should we prove god does note exist? Can you prove he exists? I will believe in any god that can be proven by scientific means and/or rational debate. You say I understood, you mean actually understood or merely believed? two very different words. But, if you know, please tell me, what is the point? 010724 ... The Truth sigh....that is so typically animosity, angercondescending! I can't find an athiest with a good answer, guess I'll have to keep looking! I didn't ask if it was possible, as we all know my stance of "ANYTHING_IS_POSSIBLE" I simply requested that you prove it! I am sorry... but you failed! And the point, my friends, and I call you my friends because I dearly love both of you, is that it may just be .000000001% possible... that you believe, whole heartedly, in a lie. 010725 ... prodda-g why can't prayer just be whatever it needs to be. being a christian, its hard to visualize communication with someone as great as God, much less, a 3 in 1 figure, so why can't prayer simply be an outpouring with intentions on listening as well. for example, if you're pissed off, tell God, ask for help, scream to God, if you're sad, cry to God, if you're happy, laugh. just my thoughts 010725 ... anonymous DB- you're asking us (christians) to prove God exists. But I ask you to prove anything. Anything and everything we know is filtered through these "senses" (sight, sound...) so how do you PROVE or KNOW anything...honestly you can't. You can't prove anything. So, to not believe in something that can't be proven but is nonetheless manifest in all things is foolish. And the point...is just that. He is the point. Hope you find this helpful. 010725 ... kx21 The state of Ignorance:- Pray without Trust? The state of Enlightenment:- Trust without Pray? 010725 ... unhinged ok, some people like db need scientific fact to take something as truth. some people just believe things that they are told. neither is right or wrong. stop trying to justify and place importance on your christianity. great. you're christian. i am not. so i really don't care about your religious preference and don't see why you are so interested in making everyone else here 'see the light'. that is ignorant. we have all gone through our own ways of finding what we want in religion and by now i'm sure all of our beliefs are pretty deep-seated so just let it be already. you are christian and you actively pray. i'm an amalgam of a few things and i rarely talk to god. who really gives a flying fuck? maybe god does. maybe he doesn't. he could be laughing at you at this very second. 010725 ... burden Is it possible that everyone's right? 010725 ... The Truth All I wanted to do was share a piece of information that I thought was cool, and what do I get? flack flack flack from the PG! See, I knew this would happen. Just read what I wrote at the very top of the page...since none of you bothered to do that in the first place. Don't ignore it! That's a sure way to pick up bad listening habits you know! shheeeesh! 010725 ... The Truth Db, here are some funny quotes: "And the really funnyl thing is that you B'Bashers have no idea why everybody else barely manages to conceal their contempt when you start your senseless preaching." [funny because you seem to be the only one senslessly preaching here] "That is why even praying to me seems a pointless act of misplaced faith. I'm am not blind to christian ways, I understand them perfectly well, this is because I'm a lapsed catholic. Why did I leave the church? Because even though I might understand the beliefs that you have, I can't JUSTIFY them. It was like beliveing because they told you to, there was no PROOF, and there was no POINT. " [Funny because you lashed out against "misplaced faith" yet what you described as your reason for leaving the church is absolutely a LACK OF FAITH] "At no cost. We can prove gravity exists. If we couldn't prove atoms exist, explain the fat man. In future think before you say that. " [no explaination from me is needed here, I mean, come on!] "Now why should we prove god does note exist? Can you prove he exists? I will believe in any god that can be proven by scientific means and/or rational debate." [Funny because you don't seem to understand the importance of faith, and also because the very God you speak out against can almost be proven by rational debate and scientific means, if only "scientific means" weren't designed to eliminate God, but don't worry, in your life time the goal of science will backfire and actually prove God, we are very close now...you should look it up {quantum physics}] "You say I understood, you mean actually understood or merely believed? two very different words. But, if you know, please tell me, what is the point? " [Knowledge_is_power] [Believe the Truth] 010725 ... unhinged it's quite possible that everyone is right. faith is a great thing for some people. but for others it's not. i don't think faith is a necessary thing. i totally understand where truth and db are both coming from. i am myself too a lapsed catholic. having religion and belonging to a church and/or sect of christianity is not the same thing. i have a somewhat quiet and personal faith in god. but i don't go to church so does that mean that i don't have any faith? i don't think so. and because of my experience with organized religion, i have to examine facts and practices before i can just put my faith in something. some people are raised with organized religion as an integral part of their life (which i was not), so faith is like second nature. but i think it is good to question and think about things. and yes, you asked people not to judge you, but people always judge on matters of politics and religion. if you didn't want a debate about it, you probably shouldn't have blathered about it. debate follows religion around because there aren't many solid facts and beliefs can be a daunting thing. the very title of this blathe does seem kind of preachy and judgemental though. 010725 ... The Truth well, the seed was planted as a result of a conversation (see there is a difference between a conversation and an argument!!!!!) between me and kx21, nice and peaceful and friendly, mature, and the title is actually a question...but since I don't think you can use question marks in titles... anyway... It is not necessary to go to church at all. I've explained it all in the church blathe, but Jesus defined it this way: "Wherever two or more are gathered in My name, I am there with them." I understand your issues with catholocism, which is a governmental system, more than a religion in my opinion. Nowadays, the catholic churches around my area are pretty much straightened out, but for the past 2000 years, the Catholics, well...there is a piece on the chess board known as a "bishop" that represents the Catholic church, positioned snugly on both sides of the king and queen, signifying the amount of power that church once had, and abused. That's all I'll say about that. I didn't go to church for 8 years, and I became closer to God than ever before. 010725 ... kx21 pray to what? From Nothing to Everything:- The Hell or Heaven, The Shit or Star, The Hole or Truth, ??? and how do you know or ensure that ??? is there to recive your praying or blessing, at the right time, place, etc.? A matter of praying smart instead of praying hard? 010725 ... The Truth We know that we are heard because we can see the RESULTS implemented. Exhibit "a" on the power of prayer: BACKGROUND: My wife's friend "Frida" recently discovered she was pregnant. Frida has been dating "Jose" for a few months now, and they talk of marriage. Frida is emotionally insecure due to a disturbed familial environment, and Jose isn't the ideal class act, with a criminal record, drug abuse history, no car, no money. Both of them are immature for their age, but I've noticed growth in both of them during the few months they've been together. Frida and Jose decide to get an abortion. My wife and I have been praying that she would come to her senses, and not be so selfish. Her appointment is scheduled for Today. Situation: Last night, Frida and Jose came over, Jose never comes over to go to the gym w/ us. I was jokingly telling my wife prior to this that it was up to her to talk frida out of it. We prayed for them, that they would have it weigh heavily on their consciences. My wife was nervous, not knowing how to bring it up to frida, especially now that jose was coming. RESULTS: Here is the cool thing. Jose brought it up! He came up and said, " you know 25% of me wants to have this kid," Which if you knew jose, that is TOTALLY out of character for him...When they left last night I yelled, "Don't do it!!" She laughed. As I write this...I don't know yet if she will go through with it or not. But faith is the key ingredient to prayer... "Pray, having faith that what you are asking for is already guaranteed to come true" is not exactly what Jesus said, but close enough. So I believe that Frida won't have an abortion. I think this is the kind of thing that will change both of their lives for the better! 010725 ... dB Sleep is one of the best things for debate (I wouldn't call this an argument, there is not enough mud slinging going on). Truth, I would consider you a friend as well, in that anyone who is interesting to talk to and can hold their own in this kind of discussion is due some respect. And those worthy of that respect I consider friend. Now, as you have pointed out, there are some holes in my argument, but there are holes in yours as well. As with all things it depends on what side you are on. We will never agree on this thing, but it is possible that we are both right, and both wrong. But if you are totally right, well, I'm prepared to deal with the consequences of my beliefs when I die. Anyway, I have stuff to do. *Much Peace* 010725 ... Sol why if your god is omnipotent and omnipresent, et al, must a specific activity be prayer, if your god is so great why must hesheit be adored? why cannot any moment of your life be a moment in God any second be prayer, and activity, because if your god has created all around you it is touching and interacting with god. and every appreciation be of that? 010726 ... Sol Ii just wish to add in addition to this that i am against any form of organised religeon, one which places a guidline around your belief, removes any form af spiritual experience and instructs you in how an "allpowerful being" should be worshipped (and lets face it anything that needs daily adulation (assuming the bible is correct and we are created in gods image) showes some degree of a weakness of charachter and a childish compulsion for self) I prefer the buddhist approach, 010726 ... The Truth God experiences pleasure and pain, Our adoration of Him gives Him Immense pleasure and pure joy. Imagine that. And for some reason, He likes it when we sing about Him too. Go figure. 010726 ... unhinged i also prefer the buddhist approach and don't put too much stock in organized religion. how ironic. 010726 ... The Truth A relaxed, meditative state is a very, very good way to pray. Meditation is a core function of exercising our mind. Repetition is a way to communinicate with your subconscious mind. Mantras are a helpful tool in clearing the mind. The Buddha had a very good effect on morality in Asia. His humanistic perspective contains much wisdom. I don't think his likeness, or anybody else's, should be cast as a staue, idolized and worshipped, but I do think his message contains so much value that should not be ignored. I take GREAT COMFORT in realizing that there is a trend of Eastern thought infiltrating our western culture. It could signal the return of focused thought. 010726 ... prodda-g meditation isn't prayer, its a form of self therapy hinged on psychological reassurance of safety or acceptance. Prayer is directed TO someone, usually God, and isn't a mere illusion. Many times it is hard for Christians or other people of faith to see a need for prayer because God has already seen all things, predestined everything, so what good is our will revealed to Him? I say just the opposite. It's something beyond our comprehension, but the act of submission to God, and humbling ones self as a servant to Him, produces works as a result of God's divine intervention on our lives beyond our wildest imaginations. 010727 ... Lindsey I can repeat Hail Mary's, but they don't come from where it counts. I can confess my truths and the sins I have committed, I will only feel ashamed. And if I ask, from the place deepest inside me, for forgiveness, I don't believe she's hear me. Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art though among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Hail Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. We recited it at Grandpa's funeral. We did the whole rosary. But while we were screaming to God, Grandma was reciting a love poem to her husband. Which is really more holy? 010728 ... prodda-g mary isn't god. read the first and second commandments. there is only one god manifest in three person. the father, the son, and the holy spirit. not in mary. sorry to ruin your fun, but its the truth. 010728 ... unhinged if you are catholic mary is as good as god. she becomes another idol in the church just like that statues of jesus all along the church and the crucified christ behind the altar. being the mother of jesus and all, god had to like her. and i think the love poem is more powerful and revered than the hail marys. i get what you mean lindsey. 010728 ... jem aren't idols sin? i'm agnostic, so i'm fun to argue about religion with. if someone needs to pray, there's no wrong with that. it's like meditation. with all this god business asside, it at least helps them step away from themselves to put things and themselves in perspection. no harm done. whatever turns your crank. 010728 ... kx21 Once I was contemplating about the best way to pray to ???, My master, an old cow showed me that:- Moo...oooooo Is this the final answer? ???:- Anything which I Respect e.g. The Mote of Dust, The droplet of Water,..., The Ivy, The Star, The Sky,..., The Universe and its Creator; and last but not least, My Teachers(e.g... Blatherers, etc.) Moo: Cow_Mu Copyright 2001. kx21.com 010728 ... kx21 Which comes first: Know what to pray or know_how_to_pray? 010728 ... Photophobe The truth: Those who take stock in science knock you for blindly believing in god. So you turned that point around; they blindly believe in science. But that doesn't prove anything about god. It just shows that scientists have just as much "faith" about their work and you do. Don't presume to think that all atheists belive in science as an absolute. Look at solipsists. They don't belive in anything outside their own head (Ie like Leonard in Memento). So they don't believe in god, but they don't believe in science either. I'm not, by the way, an atheist, but I don't belong to an oragnised religeon. My version of god isn't really a being. I find god in the beuatiful and in the sublime and in that which changes me. So I can't supplicate. I can't confess. I can adore (sort of), but means of creating more of the sublime. By playing music and painting and trying to help people where they need it. I'm not very religeous though. I play guitar lots, but I don't open soup kitchens and give away all my money and stuff like I probably would if I was the selfless type. 010731 ... Photophobe A proof that god exists: This was made by some cardinal (I don't remember his name) A couple of hundred years ago. It only works if you agree to two premises: (1) God is a perfect being. (2) A perfect being would have every desiorable attribute So it follows that if existence is a desirable attribute, then god must exist. So, basically, if we want god to exist, then he must. The only problem with this, is it can be used to prove the existence of the 'perfect' anything. insert the word tomato in place of god, to see what I mean. 010731 ... The Truth Thank you for sharing your thoughts photophobe. I can tell you are an honest person. Most people here display only their alter egos. I respect you and your beliefs. Thanks for listening. 010731 ... The Truth About that God Proof...I disagree...I think having all desirable qualities would make you popular, and likable yes. But a God? A U Creator? No. And if you take the most reliable source available containing defining charactaristics about God...it will tell you that if... You talk to a human, the experience would kill it. Our minds cannot comprehend the awesome voice of God. If a human looks at you, The brightness of your being would kill it. Where could one stand in order to see the entirety of infinity^infinity? Those are not desirable qualities for me. I like talking to humans. (without them dieing as a result). 010731 ... prodda-g Back to the Mary/idols discussion... "Unhinged" said... if you are catholic mary is as good as god. she becomes another idol in the church just like that statues of jesus all along the church and the crucified christ behind the altar. being the mother of jesus and all, god had to like her. My rebuttal: Take in account that there are many things wrong and corrupt about the catholic church including but not limited to...their doctrine. One thing the catholic church preaches is that they are "Christian," which is true if Christian means saved by faith in Christ's death and ressurection for atonement of sins. But, the catholic church throws in a big "AND..." through works, which is totally against Christ's teachings. You are not saved by works. Mary is also not God. So to say Mary is God because the Catholic church teaches it is very lazy in ones intellectual reasoning as well as wrong. Also, what do you mean, "good as God"? No one is good as good. You can't be close to as good as God. It is insulting that one could even think such a thing. Actually, that's what Satan thought before being cast into the depths of hell. He thought he could be as good as God. But the truth is, God is so far above anything, that's not even a logically sound statement, "good as God." 010801 ... unhinged there are many things wrong and corrupt about all organized religion. so i was using one group to classify the whole and my intellect was unsound but it was my way of stating my whole opinion without being obtuse about it. i don't believe that god is higher than every living being. i believe that we touch and see god everyday. to sit in a building with hordes of other people in any denomination and renounce and admit and confess and ritualize what goes on around you everyday is senseless to me. there is no reason to go to church ever because everywhere you walk is a church. every though you think is heard by god. not because he is so far above us as to be holy but because his presence is everywhere at all times. some would say that catholicism has spoiled my view of religion but i have been to many different churches. i was raised to have a personal relationship with god and that everyone has the choice to believe what they will. i just don't understand the narrow scope of those that participate in organized religion. why do you need a congregation and a preacher? why do you need a bible? every breeze should be the word of god. 010801 ... kx21 God is more than the Creator of U... He has Ten Hearts... Which is his Heart you are Praying to? 010801 ... kx21 And more precisely, How do you tune into the frequency of his Heart(s) while you are praying? Any Good_point? 010801 ... kx21 How do you pluck into the God's String(s) while you are praying? Any Good_point? 010806 ... Skalar i believe that unhinged's last post was the most accurate within this thread. She is the only one that has articulated God's all encompassing nature. Prayer is a part of your personal relationship with God. it is a communication with your creator. Prayer therefore, is personal. There is no right or wrong way to pray. it is as individual as each person is, as unique as each snowflake. To say that there should be a structure to prayer is just about as bad as saying "you have to believe in God in exactly the same way as i do." That's the kind of statement that starts religious wars, like those in Northern Ireland, Bosnia, India and Pakistan. The way i pray isn't the only way. It's merely another way. 010806 ... GrayWolf Excellent Point Skalar 010806 ... kx21 PCA: Pray with your Heart(s)!!! 010806 ... Aimee I don't know what I am, but I pray to a higher being, maybe a goddess, maybe a god, or maybe I just hope that there's something greater out there so that I don't always feel so alone all the time. Spiritual emptiness is worse than any other kind, because without feeling that, I don't think I could make it on a daily basis. I don't think i could handle looking at the world with that kind of emptiness encircling me on a daily basis. But oddly enough, the sight of a sunset, or looking at the trees during a rainstorm, or even while the sun is shining through them is enough to bring me to tears. Whomever created this world conceived of beauty far beyond that of imagination. I wish I could be that beautiful somedays. 010807 ... GrayWolf Aimee, I could not have said it any better myself. Thank You 010807 ... The Editor A. Adoration This is where we say words. He gets a kick out of the sins we feel guilty about. you have to talk to a man in a little wooden box, I don't know if God has engineered our minds to recieve a passion to try again. T. Thanksgiving You know God always comes, it's nice to appreciate his Supplies we want, like answers, ideas, money, help. 010808 ... dB Unhinged and Aimee have hit on something here. maybe by combining elements of those last posts you get a clearer picture of what god is. I think most of you have some kind of belief. Even the staunchest athiest when he hits his thumb with a hammer can't scream "primitve and out-moded concept on a crutch!" just to reffrain from admitting that god exists, even to swear at him. I don't know what god is, it may not even be sentient. There may be some great creator, or maybe it's the universe itself, and as part of the universe we are trying to figure it out becasue even the universe does not fully understand the extent of what it is. If we are part of the universe, then the universe does have some kind of sentient bahavior, even if it is confused and scared. Shit, I'm rambling again. I'l just stop it. 010808 ... dB Unhinged and Aimee have hit on something here. maybe by combining elements of those last posts you get a clearer picture of what god is. I think most of you have some kind of belief. Even the staunchest athiest when he hits his thumb with a hammer can't scream "primitve and out-moded concept on a crutch!" just to reffrain from admitting that god exists, even to swear at him. I don't know what god is, it may not even be sentient. There may be some great creator, or maybe it's the universe itself, and as part of the universe we are trying to figure it out because even the universe does not fully understand the extent of what it is. If we are part of the universe, then the universe does have some kind of sentient bahavior, even if it is confused and scared. Shit, I'm rambling again. I'l just stop it. 010808 ... prodda-g db-- the word "Universe" means Uni-one Verse-spoken word So, universe means one spoken word. I belive that there is a God who created everything, and He is a seperate entity than anything we see here in this physical realm of earth and this universe. 010812 ... Qryssi Look at the topic. I thought this post would be about how to pray. I don't believe in anything and I don't know what to believe, but does this have any relevance to the topic outlined? No. Now this topic is screwed. Thank you very much, I might have found it interesting. 010925 ... kx21 Ten_Supreme_Hearts.... 010926 ... kx21 prayer_for_the_terrorists specifically All Chicken or Tiger strung around the World_war_Three 010926 ... kx21 Any ideas on what spice(s) should be added to this Prayer Menu? 010927 ... Aimee Everytime I see this "subject" I think of The Truth. Man, I wonder what he's up to. I didn't always read what he wrote because I didn't always agree with him, but I respected him. He was like my wise man whom I never had to ask a question to because the answer was already there. 010927 ... anonymous -_- I don't get it. I know in my heart if God existed he would give a clue. I am not talking about some old books and scary stories - I mean he would really get down and chill! But the funny thing is... I was walking home a few days ago passed the ghetto and three guys pulled me into an ally. I just drop to my knees and started praying. One of the guys said - ya grl that's just wher I wans ya 2 be. And I prayed even a little harder. Then I heard a whoop whoop cop car thingie and saw a light shine. Next thing I knew those ran like roaches in from the light. OK so -- it was no burning bush but it sure saved mine! So perhaps I'll have to reconsider this thing called faith! -_- 040218 ... pipedream i haven't read every word on this page, but my two cents nonetheless. how to pray, that i know. its the essence, the spirit, the fire and love behind prayer...the submission and total single-minded worship of the act is what i would want to get my hands on. that, i think, is when you truly realise just how important prayer is. i know the potency of a prayer, i believe in it, i have faith and i cling to it to buouy my through the storms in my life. but really truly praying from the soul and mind and gut...that's where its at, and is such a fleeting moment. 040218 ... iNsEcUrE_GoTh_GiRl praying is amazing it's not just a way to calm my mind sometimes i get so upset that praying even upsets me more. i love to pray, because i can talk to God any time that i want, wheverever i am. when i pray, my prayers are always answered, sometimes subtley, sometimes in a different way than i thought, but always for the best. i love God. 040218 ... Novice . 040218 ... oE great stuff ladies 040219 ... Priest mmm, I loooooooove praying. It feels *so* good. It's like the hugest stat of pleasure a person can obtain. Sometimes, I can get an actual orgasm while reading the Bible. 040603 ... witchesrequiem Ok I know the truth may not be here but damn...acts.. Adoration...duh..who dosen't like to be praised...give the sheep some credit. confession.... What the Hell is sin? How can God create hatred, greed, lust etc. in people if he didn't feel it himself. Lucifer sure pissed him off. So how is this "a sin". For that matter I have never read Hell referred to as a biblical place. Probably b/c we are already there. And While I'm talking about the bible, check out psalm 109...wicked ass curse to put on some one. The damn bible practicaly trained my fellow pagans. Thanksgiving.... who dosen't like to be thanked for hooking some asshole up...duh... Supplication.... Damn some of these religions...u see no point in praying unless you want somthing. oh talk to him like my father... my mortal father would die if I so called "confessed". And then had the nerve to kiss his ass and ask for something. Oh wait..I think I got that out of order.Hahahaha.. Then you give us some fucking chicken soup for the soul shit..about your friends. An example. once again we are all to dumb to understand what you were saying the first time. No we need more fucking examples! Father..hmmmmm... no your not converting.... you just choose to talk about him. What happend to mom. Oh wait I forgot I'm dumb, it doesn't take 2 to tango. Yet we are Gods children. Prayer is a beautiful topic. But I don't see any kind of contribution made. Other than the same Crap the christians keep littering our streets with every time they stick one of those damn pamplets about jesus on my car window. Save it! The trees are dying. Yes I am A practicing witch. But before now I have never made a blather that that screamed it or enforced it on anyone. However this Beautiful thread was started by such crap... that this ignorance drove me to speak on religion. I pray like I'm talking to my parents ..sometimes it's "thanks", some times its "give me" and sometimes it's just "this is how my day was"..."how was yours". acts... Prayer should be natrual to the individual..not some damn acts format. I'm gonna stop before I pray for the damn pamplet, converting sheep. 040604 ... kx21 * Ten_SHE...* 040604 ... taintedluv db was right about many things...ask yourselves this people...(and try to leave the sheep out of it) what IS right? I know 10 ways to cook eggs...which is "right"? NO ONE has a right to choose another persons spiritual path. YES ppl there IS a difference between religion and spirituality...anyone here have enough of their mind left (that is not brainwashed) to know the difference? It is a HUGE one. I too am a recovering catholic. It is not because I gave up faith whatever jakass up there said that, it is due to MY knowing there was a LOT missing. So I questioned...and questioned..Until lo and behold..I found it, the Magick in every living thing...looking at the stars at night, a full moon. Now I am a pagan & practicing Witch. Yes, I am. I would not say anyway is right or wrong. But I will say this....any idiot that thinks their "way" is the only "right way" is sadly very sad and ignorant...also very much a closed - minded fool. Want to know what "Hell" is? The truth found out too late. Many ppl here live their lives in "hell" due to their own laziness and ignorance. Once when I was growing up I met a very interesting man. His name was Clarence. Clarence was a black man...he was going to be a catholic priest..gave it all up for a white lady. This happened in the south..you can only imagine what he had to face due to his choice. But he was true to hisself. One day I asked Clarense whom I considered a very spiritual and wise man..I said...the "bible" says there is only one way to heaven, I said..I do NOT believe this to be true. You mean all the other ppl in this world, living good lives, with all their heart and soul....just because they believe differently will be "damned" and he said no. Thats MY story and I AM sticking to it! They teach you this "devil" bullcrap, goes way back people, try RESEARCH...the church did this to instill fear, thus to gain control. We are all meant for different paths. Of course I do believe the ignorant should not be allwed to breed. There are far too many "sheep" already...trying to convert ppl to their way. Let me tell you ppl something I have learned as a Witch. Religion...is NOT th creed we profess, but the LIFE we LIVE. BTW..xtian ppls with ur righteousness that cannot obey thy own commandment which states : judge not, lest ye be judged....hell...thats where u GO...u created it! Last but not least, I pray anyway I feel is appropriate. I know when i pray my Goddess and my God are listening, for I have the richest parents in the world. My God/ess has many, many faces.They answer me, lead me in my life. Sometimes life's lessons are difficult, but those are the best lessons. There are 2 roads in life...the one most traveled, and the road less traveled. Winners stand alone....ty, I will take the road less traveled, for it has NO sheep ;) May the light and love of my Goddess reach you all. (u need it) 040604 ... ferret i dont' believe in anything i can see. 040604 ... minnesota_chris There's a moment in acting, really dramatic acting, when you get all your rage and emotions built up to a crest that reaches high enough to overwhelm the dike of apprehension and self doubt inside you. It's something like that. 040605 ... oldephebe well said chris 040605 what's it to you? who go blather from