i_hate_and_loath_who_i_am so fucking lost and all the change in the world wont fix the things that i have done 030820 ... oldephebe Lovinggrace.org try it or not it's totally up to you 030820 ... starboy Than start over. Nothing is set in stone in this world, not even stone itself. Self-loathing and moping will only beget itself more. Get up and do something about it. Or, you can go about hating yourself forever. You could just give up right here and die. Either way, the world spins round and the only one effected is you. You choose your path. Make it fun or miserable as you see fit. "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right." 030821 ... rob i_hate_the_universe_but_most_of_all_i_hate_ 030821 ... continuation of rob but not really rob that_i_can't_change_me_on_my_own 030821 ... misstree yay starboy. ya beat me to it, and prolly did it better than i would have. 030821 ... Dafremen Well, just so you don't feel alone, realize that I like and am fond of redundancies as well too. Just ask anyone who's read my crap. 030821 ... TheDeprived Take a breath and look back on my wasted life. What have I become? Ive become exactly what I cant stand about the human race. About females. I have given away every ounce of individuality I had to another. I make me sick. 030821 ... misstree just aim it away from me shoes, please, vomitous loathing doesn't come out of leather very well. and it smells funny. 030821 ... unhinged i feel bad for anyone who comes here to say that they have such strong feelings as hate for themselves and have people respond by telling them that they need to suck it up and put themselves on a right path. and maybe i shouldn't feel bad because maybe they don't want my pity, but i have a feeling that they definitely don't want to be made to feel inferior for their own self_loathing because they have already made themselves that way. it's just an assumption that a person who says something like that on blather wants help. having been an avid self hater, i know that advice like 'well you just put yourself down deeper so it's your own damn fault; get off the bandwagon and turn your life around' does nothing but perpetuate the self hate. cause we already know that people. which causes us to hate ourselves even more. these things and other things like it: depression, self_disgust, self_loathing, it's not something that listens to rationality. and if you've never experienced these things to the point of serious sucidial thoughts then you really shouldn't try to give advice. the human instinct to survive kicks in in most cases. we don't actually kill ourselves, we eventually find away to become measurably more happy. but telling someone who has these problems to just get over it or just put yourself on a different path...it's really not that simple. to you it may be simple, but the realization of simplicity is something that gets clouded by all the sickness. it was simple for me to get out of it; i found someone that loved me. in the way that for all the years i've been writing here, i wanted someone to love me. to need me, to let me help them...all those things that make someone feel like they are worth something. but i have lapsed back into my self_loathing now that he's gone. granted, it's not as bad. i don't hurt myself anymore. i don't have serious drug addictions anymore. love is what heals these things. not judgements and words. so i feel bad for people that come here to say they feel like this only to have people tell them that the solution to their problem is right in front of their face and really quite simple. obviously, you haven't ever been black. maybe varying shades of grey, but never black. and until you have, you probably shouldn't give anyone advice on how to pull themselves out of the blackness. sometimes it's really not as simple as looking within when you can't see anything inside yourself but darkness. love heals that. not just a shift in attitude. love. and hopefully someday, our human instinct for survival will turn all of us self haters to the love we need. because sometimes we need to be taught by example. if someone else truly loves us then it is possible for us to love ourselves. yeah, i think i should stop now. 030821 ... misstree you're right. making vomit jokes is mean to people who need anything but mean. i have been in the black, i have drowned again and again in my own pool, and events through my life have taught me to be hard and strong, to ride through the torrents... but even in the truest depths of my despair, i do not hate myself. that would be a form of blasphemy to me, to turn on that which as brought me through countless hells. i don't know what advice to give. really, i wish i did, and if faced with particulars i can whip it out like a sage, but when self-consuming hatred is involved, well, all i can really do is watch someone writhe on the floor and make comments from the peanut gallery. so, yeah, those comments may make me heartless and uncaring. i can't argue with that. i'll only take issue with the assumption that someone hasn't seen hell because they haven't wallowed in a pit of self-hatred to the point of saying: you are wrong. i have lived in those pits, and left them behind for other hells, and each one is a new torment, and to compare them is useless, and cheapens each. i also must respectfully disagree with the thought that love is the only thing that can turn around feelings of self-hatred. there are infinite paths out of any hell, some of which lead to fresh hells (like becoming completely dependent on another being for your sense of self-worth, which is a *possible* outcome of your love solution), and some of which lead to sunlight, at least for a time. so, yeah. no disrespect intended, for once, but that's my gum and i'm sticking to it. 030821 ... oldephebe love has spared my soul my life my mind countless, countless, times love unconditional love has never negated me, it made me more than me, more than i could ever be without It all empirisism and psuedo-intellectual diarhetic streams notwithstanding (and i'm directing that soley at me)Love has taught me to be strong, implacablly so, love has helped me cultivate patience, and empathy, I dig what you (mistree) and unhinged had to say, kind of brought the water to these over-sensitive brown eyes, the things we share here are so sacred, i hope, i pray that sfl finds his/her way out of that hole, but like unhinged said any words will just shimmer and fall to shatter, never having touched the tomb of his/her ears - you women are truly beautiful beings i hope you realize that you know? getting sappy sorry, no i don't care - this is my argument for LIFE!! i'm way too apologetic, misstree i see the merit - searing wisdom of your words, we all climb out of that hole the best way we can - thank God both of you were able to - sfl i want the words or the wisdom to say the right thing, but this is your hell, your pain, it's in you.. what you need? it's in you already, yea more cottony soft cloud clutter - you are sacred to the universe - no flame like you, please try and hold on a.. a little longer, those survival instincts unhinged spoke about will kick in, God bless you *sfl* 030821 ... misstree hmm... you have poked me into a clarification of love, in this sense, for my sake as much as anyone's... am a bit bitter at the moment, having seen love's darker face, the one that drifts or is torn away, kicking and screaming sometimes... but i do think that love is one of the strongest powers against hate... makes sense, i mean... but don't put all your eggs in the "love of another" basket... there are countless other shimmering forms out there... love of country, of ideas, of words, of kittens and butterflies, love of a moment, love of life, love of a place, a family, a child, love of an accomplishment, love of learning, love of a diety/religion/holy booger in your nose, love of a song or a feeling or even just love of shopping or chocolate or pr0n... all of these things are also love, and any form of love can brighten the darkness, help you find the door handle. 030821 ... oldephebe yeah that's pretty much what I'd hoped I was conveying an all encompassing, unconditional love, or Love peace 030821 ... starboy I never said change was easy, only needed. The only person capable of making you happy is you. Anything else is a cheap and unhealthy substitute that will eventually leave you off were than you were to begin with. 030821 ... starboy It's like an ex-drug addict telling a current drug addict how to quit. He knows the pains, the agony and the hells of quitting, but he knows it's the needed step towards the goal in mind. 030821 ... Siren My mind is far too small to even begin to comprehend the genious of the people who post on this site. Kudos to you all. 030822 ... unhinged yes, i admit my response was a little excessive and emotional and that is why i stopped myself. and i don't want you to feel at all like i was attacking you starboy. i know that everyone has their reasons and experiences and approaches things differently. but it just sounded to me like so fucking lost is in that horrible place where no amount of logic and rationality will reach them. and i understand that it is very easy to make unhealthy_substitue (s). boy how i understand that. i spend the past two years of my life hopelessy addicted to pot and a person that i wanted desparately to save me by way of letting me save/love them while coming close to slipping down even worse avenues of addiction. and while i was going through this i was surrounded by people just like me. and the one relationship that always struck me was this relationship that i had with this guy who i'll call matt. me and matt were friends. we had a lot of the same complexes and issues --- inferiority complexes that fucked up our relationships with everyone around us, trusting people, feeling truly alone, living our lives in the inanimate...and we both had a similar way of dealing with it. we were both addicts. but while i was a pothead he was hooked on pills --- mostly oxys . i periodically hung out with him incessantly. and everytime i got to our hang out the first thing i would do is light up a bowl. and he was constantly digging on me about the amount of weed i smoked and i could see the veiled reason behind it. he knew just as well as i did that i was addicted. i would even openly admit that to anyone else that we hung out with. 'dude, all you do is smoke pot' 'well you know, i'm a psychological addict' and even though he had the same more serious problem of oxy addiction he tried his hardest to get me to recognize mine. and i had recognized it but i refused to change. i didn't see the point in change. we can give all the veiled or direct advice we want; all of us who have been addicts, hated ourselves, been depressed, but the solution is always deeply personal. so yeah, i proved myself to be a hypocrite on this page which i have also never denied. but i never wanted to make anyone feel like i was attacking them even though i guess that i was. and by no means did i mean to generalize my experience to cover everyone else here that has gone through this, but i guess i realize very well that you can't help someone unless they want to be helped. even though they hear you they will refuse to understand. so i've sat and waited; sometimes the best thing you can do for someone is sit there with them. 030822 ... crimson I hate and loath who I am becoming. 030825 ... Dafremen "..all the years i've been writing here, i wanted someone to love me. to need me, to let me help them...all those things that make someone feel like they are worth something.." No..all of the things that in particular make Librans and Pisceans feel like they are worth something. One of the most common responses I hear from the skeptics is: Well doesn't everybody? No, everybody does not. As a Libran you're half of a couple, not all of one person...well you are, but part of the Libran challenge is to learn that everything you need to be whole is inside of you. You'll get it eventually. It's that little voice you've been ignoring..it's a full-time partner 24-7 and she(he?) has most of the answers already, so you don't have to spend so much time deciding. "Doesn't everyone?" indeed. She's can you believe they have the gall to say that to me do0d? Makes you wanna slap em sometimes and say "WAKE THE F*CK UP!!" But you know they won't so...well you just smile and mentally pat them on the head, if they're obtuse, or help them and work with them when they're not. Man...I actually kinda like and am fond of who I am. see also: write_a_letter_to_yourself 030825 ... Dafremen -She's +Sheesh 030825 ... Freak I can't believe he asked him how he could ever put up with someone like me. So spiteful. So mean. So cruel. I guess when it comes down to it im just a horrible person. 030825 ... ferret now i'm just mad at myself 030826 ... nomm when i'm impossible 030826 ... endless desire i hate and loath how long this page is. 030827 ... Frak if we hate something about ourselves, we can really only do a few things... we either live with it, get angry about it, or try to work towards making a change. if you just give up on yourself because you hate yourself, then you're not giving yourself much of a fair chance to change. it's really a shame when you let negative feelings for someone (yourself included) block you from giving that someone a chance to make things better. 031103 ... nom good words Frak 031104 ... oE yeah, i second nom's sentiments..good words frak.. 031105 ... Lemon_Soda We know. We know exactly whats wrong with us. We know EXACTLY what we're doing wrong. But pretending to not know makes it bearable(sp?). Not our fault. Unconquerable(sp?). The answers are right here in our own little heads. We don't WANT to change. Most of the time, we won't even admit we're doing anything wrong. Theres a subjective term for you. Wrong. Bad. Evil. Whatever. In my world this is doing something against your nature, the one thing you know by feeling. Your addicted. You like smoking this, swallowing that, or digging razors into your own flesh. Sure, people will be all "hey, you shouldn't do that" or "Cool, hook me up" or "whatever you want to do, do it" but that stuff doesn't mean diddly. They aren't your world. They didn't construct the barriers in your mind, write the rules, set the triggers. You did. You are who you think you are and thats how you like it. Broading? Lonely? Hurt? Yay, this sucks. Yay, some crap went down. You can't avoid how your going to react to stuff unless you change the way you react. Your not defined by who loves you, but who you love. Your pain is your own and you'll continue wallowing in it until YOU decide not to. Same with vice, addiction, hate, tollerance, love, talent, the list goes on. Self loathing happens when you think you deserve it. Key term here. THINK. You control your thoughts, not tom dick and harry. I'm not even saying that all this is bad. Sometimes it feels really good to cry my eyes off rare as that is. Clenching a fist of rage at my "mistakes" and punching an inanimate object helps sometimes. Lord knows if I didn't think my way out of it I'd still be slicing my skin on a regular basis. Think about what your doing. Really think about it. Remeber you actions. Your known as the person who did these things. To you, every one of those decisions was the correct thing to do at the time, nomatter how much you struggled with the decision because thats what you did. And now, its done. So. Who do we want to be? How do we want to feel? What do we want remembered? Where do we want to go? Why are we doing what we're doing? This isn't about what other people think of you, its about what you think of yourself and what it is about that mind frame thats so appealing. Take comfort, nomatter who you are, knowing your exactly what you want to be and what that is is completely up to you. 031105 ... Whitechocolatewalrus I would like to say that love and hate are not so cut and dry. I hate and I love both at the same time. Just because someone loves me and I love them doesn't mean that it's going to help me at all with hating myself. Really all I want is for someone to listen and care and not give me advise and tell me that I shouldn't hate myself. What right do they have to tell me whether I should hate myself or not? Do they know everything about me? What really pisses me off is when people tell me that I shouldn't hate myself because I am a cool person and deserve more from life than what I am giving to myself. Do they think that I want to hate myself? Do they think it helps at all when they tell my bestfriend that they think I am a freak? You know, I wish I didn't hate myself, but really, I have no reason to like myself. 031120 ... celestias shadow every time you feel like this, every time you want to curl up in a corner and disappear into nothing, just remember this- You are loved. There are people who love you and need you, and who would not be complete without you. There are probably more of these people than you know. You have touched more people than you could possibly imagine. Obviously these people see something special and shining and beautiful in you. Maybe you can't see it now, but it's there, and these people, your friends, see that. They see it and they love you for it. For now, you have to trust in the vision and the love of others. Sometimes other people can see us more clearly than we see ourselves. Just remember, always, that you are beautiful and loved. And that is worth everything. 031120 ... Whitechocolatewalrus Thank you. I think this might be called depression. Hopefully it's just a stage. 031121 ... Hermann Hesse Siddhartha 040712 ... a.s.s.h.o.l.e you mispelled loathe. 040713 ... d i p s h i t you're 11 months too late to point out the spelling mistake 040713 ... k o o k a b u r r a hey look spaces in my name! oh yea, bout the loathing. i am actually getting a big head... i like myself a lot these days. i need somebody to tell me how bad i am, or else my heads gonn float away 040713 ... nonlucid nah, gotta hold onto self-esteem or any semblance thereof, for fear of it suddenly jumping ship and leaving over an offhand word Y'know, getting rid of self-hatred's kinda difficult - seems to be a little nasty voice that tells you you suck, shouldn't like yourself, pointing out every little flaw or mistake, all the time. It's kinda annoying, and good to a certain extent as self-criticism is necessary to keep one's self in check, but it seems sometimes that hating yourself's the cool thing to do, even though it really sucks. That's my take on it... I'm beginning to kinda see how I can not hate myself, and instead of wondering whether people'll like me, just like myself and to hell with them - on the other hand, I fear becoming insufferably arrogant. Can't win either way 040713 ... somebody its ok so_fucking_lost never was 040713 ... chloenthesun and if i could change the world to be, I'd change them all to be something just like me; frustrating, bitter, depressing. i despise me. - dead poetic 040716 ... falling_alone i really dont know how to hate. i just know how to be annoyed. 040807 ... unhinged but all it really did take was a shift in perspective tonglen i am full of light love beauty i am beyond great and i made myself that way 110223 ... unhinged cultivate_compassion cultivate_patience and be wise enough to distinguish from pity compassion does not equal easy 110223 what's it to you? who go blather from