Dafremen R.Dafremen

As a friend come knocking
The Full Moon jumped into my lap
And told me of the coming change
Warned me to prepare myself
Or pass away with the falling sky
I listened and it followed me
Stayed with me wherever I went
Waxing ever waxing
Growing ever closer
With the changes in the air
With the visions in my eyes
With the dreams of the Great Earth Changes
Come to pass but for the time to come
Known for ages, felt for millenia
Prophesied and pondered
Done but for the doing
In the eyes of the Sun
This evolution now coming
With the Full Moon rise
Tugging my heart to the side of man
Pulling my life to the Great Earth Change.
Dafremen from: MAN_WITH_TWO_EYES

What I have felt is that there will be a "turning away." Because of strong anti-American sentiment three-fourths of the world is now a breeding ground for terrorism. The war in Iraq has hastened the day when a weapon of mass destruction will be detonated on American soil. When that day comes, or when those DAYS come, the great earth changes will begin to gather momentum. We will wake up and see one another again. Coincidentally, I ran across this at a thrift store a few months ago. It was in the Time Almanac 2000:

"Where science and technology once seemed to offer a redemptive promise, they have grown more problematic. As the second millenium approaches, they often appear to be agents of either nuclear destruction, computer dominance, or materialistic over-consumption and earth poisoning...
The pressures of such anxieties have encouraged in some quarters an ethic of millenarian asceticism, a New Age impulse to withdraw from the older promises of the consumer society and its plenitude. Barkun predicts that the approaching millenium will bring an increasingly skeptical attitude toward gratuitious technology and a renewed attraction to life in small, self sufficient rural communities. People will tend to cultivate spiritual and aesthetic values in opposition to material gratification."
- Lance Morrow / TIME
cube Sounds like there'll be plenty of communes around to join. I've always wanted to do that.

[Psssst! Do you think they'll let me keep the Beemer?]
Dafremen Do you think they'll let me keep my PC?! 030409
Dafremen By the way, commune wasn't what I feel coming. More like the people going back to the small towns. Maybe same services, lower budgets and all of the power stays at home where the constituency can keep the ear of their body politic whatever that may be. I'd prefer a society with no need of a body politic, but that might be a bit far fetched. Who knows? 030409
cube Ok, getting serious here for a moment - when you say "a society with no need of a body politic", you're talking about anarchy. After all, that's what having no governing body means:
ANARCHY: a) absence of government b) a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority (Websters)

And "at home [small towns] where the constituency can keep the ear of their body politic", says to me that basic constitutional rights and privileges may be nullified at the discretion of the small group.

You're going in the wrong direction here - backwards two hundred years. A better vision; as we_the_people tune into the world via the net, that we all become aware of situations developing worldwide in realtime and have a say in the remedies thereof.

What I'm suggesting, is a worldwide_government; an enhancement of the United Nations if you will...
User24 star trek has the right idea. 030410
Dafremen Cube: In the second part of the definition anarchy is defined as "a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority"

What I'm talking about is not lawlessness or political disorder.
It's cooperation.
User24 dafremen: absolutely. anarchy is not about gang warfare in a world with no rules, anarchy is about lack of centralised control; control can still be kept, but kept where it should be - in the hadns of the people. 030411
Dafremen "Anarchy" smacks of antisocial behavior and attitudes. Perhaps that's just a stereotype, but the history of anarchy is one of attracting the rebellious and radical to its ranks. 030411
x my mom said she found a guy she thought i would like. "he looks like an anarchist" 030411
Dafremen Cube, I just read what you blathed about people circumventing Constitutional rights in the name of whatever. I agree that it is a possiblitiy, but realize this. Whe have not had a period of human history without centralized government for thousands of years if not tens of thousands. We've learned a lot since then. The Constitution gave us a whole new standard by which to measure that which is right and fair and that which is not. 030511
Dafremen what_the_hands_of_man_hath_wrought 030823
dafremen When discussing the nature of human existence, and the effects of human society on us all, I frequently espouse a return to simpler ways. I do so for two reasons:

The first is that I don't feel that we are doing our people any great favors by teaching them to be dependent on a life of relative ease at the cost of their freedom to express what they are. Understand, that I DON'T believe that it's "human nature" to be cruel, nor to compete or to dominate one another. I feel that these are learned responses and that children taught otherwise would just as readily...or perhaps more naturally be inclined to acts of kindness and sharing.

I feel that somewhere in the early history of our race, our fascination with the power of predatory animals, combined with our fear of the dangers of the world were the genesis of our animal gods, and soon became the basis for our predatory dominating behavior. But those are acts of fear and ignorance which I feel very strongly go against our TRUE human nature.

Many people respond to my appeals with the remark that I'm "not living in reality." Which brings me to the second reason that I espouse a return to simpler ways: all indications are that human society today is not living in reality.

The very nature which we've left is STILL there, refusing to go away. Nothing we make can stop this unstoppable force and it is somewhat arrogant of us to assume that we could eradicate the very process which gave birth to our race.

You have only to look to realize that we have created a fantasy land around ourselves which we must constantly maintain against the will of the forces which surround us. The grass growing through our sidewalks fights against our manufactured illusion. The effects of corrosion on our steel structures fight against our manufactured illusion. The Sun itself withers and degrades our manufactured illusion. The wind and the rain and the trees uprooting our foundations bear testament to the fact that it isn't nature that's "not the reality" but every single one of man's creations.

There was a show on the History Channel in which scientists around the world predicted what would happen if human society disappeared tomorrow. They projected that within a mere 200 years after our demise, nature would have reclaimed everything that we have made our own. The primary reason for this is that in order for society's manufactured "reality" to continue to exist..people must maintain it.

Our buildings, our bridges, our roadways, our vehicles...everything we've produced up until now must be maintained in a constant battle against nature. This seems to indicate that the vast majority of our "industry" on this planet consists of FIGHTING AGAINST REALITY in order to maintain our version of reality. It seems to indicate that this so-called reality in which we live is in actuality, a manufactured illusion.

If we aren't engaged in converting the natural world into new creations, then we are laboring away at maintaining those creations in direct contradiction to the reality which surrounds us. We are manufacturing an illusion...and then maintaining that illusion. And THAT is what we call industry.

Industry is simply the enforcement of a manufactured illusion against the will of EVERYTHING around us. The birds crap on our statues and we clean them. The grass grows up from our lawns and we trim them. The trees attack our power lines and we cut them. The oceans corrode our ships and we maintain them. The sun and the rain and the weather crumble our roadways...and we repair them. This is what we are doing. This is the nature of human industry and human society. We are living in the midst of a manufactured illusion...and that's ok. What's not ok, is that we've come to see this as reality and anyone who espouses a return to simpler life as "unrealistic." That's delusional.

It would only take one major disaster, the sort that have happened many times on our planet before, to throw the entirety of our society back into the reality of the natural world. And how ill-prepared we would be! How quickly the members of a "civilized" society would demonstrate how truly uncivilized and out-of-touch we have become. How quickly we would realize how weak we unequipped for reality and it's ways.

And that is, perhaps the most compelling reason for returning to a simpler way: to prepare ourselves and our people to live in the reality which, as our constant struggle indicates..IS NOT in accordance with our current ways.

And if the nature of nature is to oppose what we do and what we create, and if our race is born of those natural could argue that at some level..WE are opposed to what we do and create.

One might suggest that modern, technologically inundated human beings are as destined to crumble as any of our creations.
what's it to you?
who go