pinkish Tuesday September 11th, 2001. 010911
pinkish world_war_three? 010911
yoink no. 010911
pinkish I don't think so either.

Maybe a "democratic nations vs. terrorists" thing?
silentbob murder
murder trial
kx21 The Engine of Invention evolved into the Killer of Lives...

The Power of ? linked with the Hell_on_Earth...
new2this not sure what i feel. i prayed thanks that no one in my little world was directly affected. but who are we kidding, everyone is directly effected. i'm scared of where this is going to take our country. my little world isn't the same. then i look around and i see other's aren't either. some people seem to be fine. how? i can't believe my graphic design class was actually going to meet- the fact that my typography is a little off somehow isn't on my mind today. what's the attendance policy if there's a global incident that shatters everything you took for granted about feeling safe in your country? hmm don't think that's in the student handbook. 010912
Inanna Those responsible for this needless huge loss of human life do not deserve to be a member of the human race! I think in the end these faceless cowards will get what they really deserve, and they should really be the ones scared/scarred. 010912
the cheer-up kid Hey folks, could be worse. We could be in kabul right now, listening out for the airstrikes having lived our whole lives in abject poverty as the pawns of foreign powers we could only dream of being able to visit not even having been able to vote for the regime that condemned us. 010912
new2this good point. 010912
9_11 The date of the attack
9 + 1 + 1 = 11
September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11
there are 111 days remaining till the end of the year.
1 1 - picture the twin towers
Flight 11 was the first plane to hit
State of New York was the 11 State added to the Union
Flight 11 had 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11
Flight 77 had 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11
New York City - 11 Letters
Afghanistan - 11 Letters
The Pentagon - 11 Letters
George W. Bush - 11 letters
kx21 Secret_code of
a_fool or The_Truth?
Dafremen Colin Powell has eleven letters as well..hey this IS spooky.

Flight 77 had 92 people you say?
7+7 = 14..oops wait a minute. That wasn't supposed to happen.

Let's try another one...ok um White House that's....8.9.10 letters...oops..hey does the space count? Sure..WHY NOT?! 11 characters...THAT IS amazing.

Umm the WTC is in Manhattan that's....wait no..let's not do that one. let's do...Pennsylvania!

Pennsylvania has...oh wait a minute..ok so that didn't work out too well..

Well anyhow..I get your point..it IS quite amazing..
kx21 Is there a connection between the Prime suspect and number 11?


Given the current shape or picture the twin towers...

Is this number theory still applicable or valid?
dB kx, you, daffy, me, damn near everyone knows that you can manipulate anything like this to have a common number representation.
Sorry, but that was a weak question for you.
Dafremen Db...actually do0d it was a pretty funny question. Think about that...what shape is the WTC in right now? Heheh...Kx has a cutting edge wit which must be experienced rather than read. 010920
dB I have been enlightned. Thanks for that Daff.

I move that the previous post be erased from the slate of history.

Do I get a second?
kx21 A special day of world_war_three... 010920
nanny my sister's and best friend's birthday, what a way to remember your birthday....

how do you explain to a child what war is? how do you tell them that bad things are happening in the world, but everything is alright? how do you tell them that they witnessed history live on television? how could you explain this to anyone?
ilovepatsajak amy. what the people falling out of the burning skyscraper did in that movie from a long time ago. 000105

weird...i found that under "splat"
what movie was that?
translucent shit, it was almost a fucking holiday. no offense to anybody or anything, i realize it was a horrific event, but it gave me an excuse to ditch school and order a pizza and watch the news. 010921
pralines&cream trans, what a disgusting thing to say. I'm so sure nobody was offended by that ... I'm sure that those recently widowed and orphaned are glad that the slaughter of their loved ones have allowed you a day to pig out. 010921
Tank Inanna, have you read any of your myths..? Some people say of you that you have no Truth, only naiveté. It would seem that you embody this interpretation of The Queen of Heaven and Earth. I, however, prefer to think of you as Auset, as the archetypal mother figure. I suggest that perhaps you try to find this meaning inside of you...

These people that you deem as unworthy of belonging to the human race are the parts of you that your repress and yet cannot conceal. Read your words again but remember that prior to this tragic event, the US government perpetrated many parallel atrocities upon other peoples and you are supporting the same act being done to others. By condoning murder to be committed, you are in essence, condoning what happened on this fateful day...
distorted tendencies Bleh, Translucent is indifferent. Honestly things happen all the time. This'll just be another event in the history books. It'll all pass away over time. People die every single day, this is not much different. 010922
Inanna Tank,
Karma is real, but love is patient. Here's a quarter.
Norm I don't see the people dieing as those buildings topple... all I see is parts of builing falling on other parts of building. 010929
stoner i was watching tv that night...and they were playing the the same movie on every channel. dude! the special effects were kick-ass, but the plot was a little thin. herbal. 010930
kx21 Spices for Man_talk, Woman_nag, Duck_tale, Chicken_Flavor, Cow-mu,... specifically The_Teaching_of_All_Beings & U_Whole... 010930
kx21 Good opportunity for the Tigers(i.e. Political Leaders and Religious Preachers) to create
more star(s), Shits(s) or Unknown(s) in the_Memory_of_the_Universe for the good or at the expenses of Sheep?
kx21 How many new Tiger Kings would be emerged from there? 011001
kx21 How many new Tiger Kings would be emerged from there? 011001
Dafremen Not many more for much longer my friend.

Change is coming and the true Beginning of the great cycle of the centuries(Not the year 2000, Ha! No..when things are still,when there is slow expansion again, exploration, discovery and new recombinations.)

We need to show our APPRECIATION, to be GRATEFUL and to be HUMBLED by the incredible nature of it all.

Enjoy the ride, not alone, but with everything that is made of the same stuff as we are. Step outside your skull-caps folx and take your godhead off. Realize that from an infinite universe of possibilities, we have chosen to emulate the only world our brains have ever known. A world where the only security this soft, blind weak little organ has obtained has been gained through control and domination. It knows only centralized authority and seeks after its own comforts, it's own security. If the brain ceases to exercise control over the body, things go wrong and the brain's own survival is placed in jeopardy. If it doesn't tell the lungs to breath, no oxygen to the body, and it dies. Many of our actions are of this basic type:
Control for survival or comfort.
As this has progressed, it's been increasingly less about what the WHOLE that is the body, or the WHOLE that is humanity and certainly no longer about the WHOLE that is everything wanted.

It's increasingly about what our BRAINS wanted.

I'm bored, I'm sober, I'm anxious. We chose centralized authority as the model for our churches, school, governments, militaries. Is it any wonder? It's efficient and it's brain-like to think in terms of efficiency and consolidation of decision making...that's what it does that's what we do.

But we are more, and until we step outside of our skulls and realize that we "the brains" are little more than bits of grey meat,trapped in bone cages, seeing only what our brains(which tend only worry about their own needs and desires if left to do as they please)want to believe.
"I can't believe my own eyes."
("I own them and they might be fooling me, damned things.")
Little brain...so silly! Without those eyes, you are incapable of seeing this beautiful universe of which you are a part, so why do you wanna think of them as belonging to YOU? They own you TOO. Guess what though, it doesn't end there. If earth swallowed you tomorrow, you'd miss the show too, guess IT owns you little brain. What about the sun? Or the galaxy? What if these people kill you, or hurt you? They'll own you too huh little brain. So you control them, dominate or fool them, huh? Then the threat is gone, when are all of the threats going to be gone little brain? When, how about that earthquake thing? (Lemme guess, you'll finally figure out an early warning system! Oh Little Brain, control of your environment through Superior knowledge...aren't you so godlike little brain?) What about the Sun thing? Or the Galaxy? What about yourselves? It doesn't work like that out here little brain, and your super smart little hunk o' meat self is really making things harder on yourself than you need to. It's not scary out here little brain, come on out and enjoy the sunshine and the other stuff in the universe that's putting on a show to see! Come be part of the show little brain...bring the body with you, hey it's a reunion little brain. Stop being so full of yourself, come on...there ya go! That's the way! Hey nevermind that you're made of water too...jump in...the river's warm andf it's waited for you! Lose yourself in everything else for a change. You've earned it little brain...that's right don't be afraid...oh yes, yes of course you are so very smart and wonderful...that's why we would like you to stop admiring yourself now...after all, who better to appreciate the glory that is all of us than YOU...our witness to the glory of all that we are?
dB Daff, I've printed that out and put it in my file for "signs of the coming of a new age". 011101
silentbob 01 911 for Peace
by Justin Sane

It's in the paper every day
You see it in the headlines and you feel so sick
As another life leaves this world - this world so full of hate - but short!
Short on compassion, short on humanity
Asking myself in vain, shaken by the shock
"Do we even have a chance?"

I don't want to die
I don't want to kill
We are all human
It's time to prove it

This is a plea for peace (world peace)
To the oppressors of the world (and to…)
To the leaders of nations,
Corporate profit takers,
To the every day citizen
Greed, envy, fear, hate- the competition has to stop!
When you see someone down - now is the time to pick `em up
Set our difference aside and never look back!

I don't want to die
I don't want to kill
We are all human
It's time to prove it

Isn't everybody tired of the fighting?
dB amen to that. 011101
Dafremen Isn't everybody tired, of the hate?
Or or we just tired of how the hate affects us?
WE are tired, WE are exhausted. Who the hell are WE?! I'm not so tired of the killing and dying as I am of the ignorance and lying, the self deceit, fueling self-created ignorance.

The deceit of the self-indulgent sheep that want all that AND a bag of chips. "Ohhh give me the luxuries and the freedoms, but let me continue to indulge my own fantasy of what OUR"(read MY)" common goals are." Killing? Bad, yes...why?
Because death is bad? No.

Because life is good and it is not our place to deprive another sentient hunk of sh*t of that pleasure. (Nor is it our place to let another sentient hunk of sh*t take those liberties with another life, we are one...I gotcher back.)

Mutual respect does NOT mean common perspective or even common goals, it means common respect...from all perspectives, for all perspectives.

It means respect not as a matter of necessity or of convenience, but because it is the way we live, and how we have taught our children to live.

Following one ideology be it of peace OR of war would be yet another cage for humanity here in an existence of otherwise limitless possibilities.

Let the open minded, reach even further toward understanding.
Let the close minded follow the sound of a voice crying out that their minds may be opened.

Thank you.
silentbob yeah
that didn't change my mind at all. i still go with the justin sane lyrics. and by the way...

shit shit shit shit shit shit.
thank you.
perdedor Reflections from Ground Zero
9.13.01 by perdedor

I used to be able to see the towers from outside my front door in brooklyn. It was something I used to look forward to showing others.

I walked to the subway station tuesday morning, which is an elevated platform out by me, with heavy thoughts already in my head and my back to the downtown view. I crossed the street then bounded up the stairs as I usually do stopping at the top to flick my cigarette out onto the roof of the nearby duane reade. I caught a glimpse of smoke in the sky but had no idea what it was.

I dropped my token in the slot and ran up to the platform to get on the just pulled into the station train. I sat down facing south and as the train rumbled from the station everyone started to exclaim and look out the windows towards downtown.

we could only see the smoke until we got near the williamsburg bridge, then we could see nothing but smoke coming from one of the towers. we rolled underground for the next stops and everyone sat quietly worrying to themselves.

got out at my usual stop, bowery, hit delancy street, turned back towards
work and noticed people standing in groups of threes and fours and fives
all looking towards the downtown sky. I noticed a female cop who was condoling a clearly shaken onlooker when I got my first glance of things.

jesus theres a fucking hole in tower #2!

it looked like every cheap sci-fi movie poster from escape from new york to beneath the planet of the apes all rolled up into one horrible nightmare I could barely believe was in front of me.

I stiffened my pace and headed towards work, anxious for cnn and the `net to get a line on what was happening. I heard the 2nd plane coming in while still on the street, it was one of those 'that plane is awfully low moments' but a hundred times worse. I didn't see it hit, but I heard it from 20 blocks away.

Made it to broadway and turned south on the last stretch before work. I've walked that stretch everyday for the past near 5 years between p.i.g. and subvoyant staring up at the woolworth building and the twin towers off to the side.

It was frighteningly horrible seeing the orange fire from the floors above and below. glass and metal continuing to rain down. only later did we find out some of those scraps were really people jumping from the roof for their lives.

I got into work and everyone was in shock with their faces glued to CNN on
as many tvs as possible. Some of us went out on the ledge on Broadway and
watched the towers smoke from 15 blocks away and witnessed the exodus of people being marched uptown, many covered in dust and clearly shaken.

then the first tower collapsed in a giant boom and cloud of dark brown black smoke that rose up into the otherwise clear blue sky. my guts were telling me that tower #1 was gone but I couldn't believe it until enough dust settled and it's top 10 floors were no longer visable over 401 Broadway which blocks our otherwise formerly perfect view of them.

Then the 2nd tower went shortly thereafter, the shock from that still
hasn't quite worn off. Shortly after that I retreated back to my desk to
get contact with mom and my friends here making sure everyone was alright.

thankfully everyone was.

one of my roommates arrived shortly thereafter and we switched off on the
phone tracking people down and trying to digest cnn. our other roommate is way uptown and was clear of everything, but couldn't call long distance so I called his dad for him to let him know everything was ok.

his office was still open and they kept him there until 4:30 when they set
him free, he was only able to get to Houston street (couple blocks up from
my office) so we went up to met him and headed home. we walked home tuesday night, across a williamsburg bridge nearly devoid of all traffic, save the one lane each way emergency traffic on the right. as we walked the sky continue to smoke and strode over the east river
happy to be together and alright. there were hassidims over the other side waiting to greet us with water and pink kool-aid, and make sure we were alright.

yesterday was spent at home in retreat... couldn't get through to work and heard the city was shutdown below 14th. there were two police officers positioned atop every major civil servant station watching the skies.

today I needed to come in to reboot some equipment which meant photo ID +
proof of employment in the DMZ between canal street and 14th where people
are still allowed to roam somewhat freely. the national guard was called
in to help bolster the tiring police force.

it's a ghost-town down here, only rarely do you pass another dustmasked zombie. almost all businesses are closed and mulberry street is totally vacant save the shutdown vendor carts for what was supposed to be the first day of the san genero festival.

earlier this morning there was still a thick smoke on the streetlevel downtown, and the rancid stench of extinguished destruction filled the air. the only vehicles on the streets are police / fire / emt crews racing uptown with injuries, or back downtown ready to help out with the next load.

a call from the red cross was sent out earlier asking for tech donations /
volunteers.. I replied indicating I had resources ready and willing but have not heard from them yet today and so am heading home now. I have my dust mask as well, I gave one away earlier to a man who offered me $20 for it. The people here are somber in mood, quick to abide by the instructions we are told, and ready to do whatever we can to help out.

unfortunately there is not much we can do but stay calm and wait through the rampant evacuation orders through out the city shifting from one danger zone to the next, hoping it's really over.

our world here will never be the same, even now as the jets boom overhead
reminding us of their ever prescence as well as that of the two gigantic
cruisers in the bay, there is still a genuine fright amongst the general
populous that we are not out of this yet.

the news flurry has been overwhelming, hard to decipher "news" from "rumor" but we all are trying. the sun is getting low and it's time for to done the dustmask and head back out into the wasteland DMZ for home...

I nearly collapsed this morning when I turned down broadway, and didn't
see the towers there anymore, I knew they weren't gonna be there, but I
was nowhere near ready for the reality shock even having watched it all

Those towers will always be standing there in the skyline of my mind, and
I don't think it will be anytime soon that I forget the day planes dropped
out of the sky and attacked my city.
Aimee *sighs* I just don't get it... what the fuck did they prove? 011102
Dafremen Enjoy it S'bob. That's what it's here for. After all, I think we can both agree that closing our eyes, minds and ears has worked out marvelously for the human race so far.

And...thank you, I'm touched by the revealing nature of your final words. Disdain for all but what your brain would have. I sincerely hope you find happiness in there little brain. I really hope that for you.
.Dafremen Enjoy it S'bob. That's what it's here for. After all, I think we can both agree that closing our eyes, minds and ears has worked out marvelously for the human race so far.

And...thank you, I'm touched by the revealing nature of your final words. Disdain for all but what your brain would have. I sincerely hope you find happiness in there little brain. I really hope that for you.
])afremen Enjoy it S'bob. That's what it's here for. After all, I think we can both agree that closing our eyes, minds and ears has worked out marvelously for the human race so far.

And...thank you, I'm touched by the revealing nature of your final words. Disdain for all but what your brain would have. I sincerely hope you find happiness in there little brain. I really hope that for you.
Dafremen Ouch...ok so that WAS pretty sh*tty.

Thank you
dB Daff, do you finally see the light or something? Your words have been getting quite spooky lately. 011102
Dafremen I guess you could say that Db. The brain thing was the final piece to the first part of the puzzle. It has transformed the way that I see the world around me in a way that's pretty hard to describe without coming off pretty sounding pretty batty. I assure you I haven't stopped following the facts as they prove to be(as opposed to the facts as they appear.) I'm also VERY anxuious to leave here, have been for about a year now, Sept 11 only served to strengthen my resolve to follow my intuition on this one. The closer I get to Chicago, the worse it gets. I have to leave and I have to do so now. April has been ringing in my head now for awhile. There's no rhyme or reason to the feeling, but there is rhyme or reason to this: when I follow this voice, it is right and my second guesses are wrong. When I don't, I am invariably sorry for not having done so.

I must follow this voice, it's screaming at me and it's urgent, and on the heels of this, came the view into the physical brain's perspective of the world around it, and how this has shaped the very foundations of who we are and what we do as a society. Our misery is caused by too many brains worried about brains, and not enough getting the big picture that involves brains, but that doesn't center around them.

Anyhow Db, sorry to spook you, it Is pretty scary, but I feel for some reason that this is good. That in the end, these spooky events will lead to a profound change in our society, in human society.

Thanks for your concern Db, it is appreciated. I will try to keep in contact, but if not, perhaps my "pushing away" in the coming weeks will let you know why.

Think about your brain as a slab of meat that can think...just for a moment. Think about how small it is in the grand scheme of things. Humbled, with this perspective you can begin to see the bigger picture outside of what the human brain wishes were true or wants to MAKE true. Here's a story I made up to describe what I see in my mind's eye:

See also: DAFFY
kx21 What are the genuine lessons learnt by the fellow human creatures after this tragedy?

Is the world becoming safer or worse now than one year ago?
BrotherDB All can sit back and talk to this and that and how it has and will forever effect our lives. For all of those that claim that we brought this upon ourselves, or that in some fashion our legacy of decadence or consumerism lead to this act, I say look into the eyes of someone who just watched their:
die on National Nation-wide Television.
Look into the face on the newly born orphans and tell them that it was their parents falt this happened. Those who believe that it was Americas fault are simply those who stand back and talk. Those who have lost a loved one(including myself) Say: Hunt down every last person involved in this act and burn them alive. Hate may breed ignorance, but fuck it ignorance is bliss!
freakizh people are selling videos, photos, memorials, shirts, books.. even yahoo! got a fancy disguise for today.

what a great way to remember what happened one year ago.. paying for watching what you and other people have lost.

maybe osama's real job is in a publicity company.
jane good call freakizh 020911
jane terrorism=exploitation 020911
freakizh it's always a pleasure to create paranoia and conspiracy theories, dear jane 020911
Aimee *sighs* get over it people... yes it's sad, yes it sucks, but guys, it's in the past... let's move on... 020911
ferret heh, if you put the letters and numbers on the tail of one of the planes in microsoft word, and then switch the font to wingdings, it gives you the translation which look something like, a plane, 2 towers, a bomb, a star of david (representing the jews that the attack was aimedfor/blamed on or something) and then just 1 tower, or something like that, i did it a while ago, i don't remember quite what the numbers were but yeah, crazy stuff 030517
User24 pinkish: 'Maybe a "democratic nations vs. terrorists" thing?'

you psychic or what?
Annie111 You can feel it sometimes down here, in the air. It sneaks up on you at strange moments. I imagine everything I see everyday covered in dust. I read peredor's blathe and I could really feel it happening again. I hope I never forget. 031113
phil nothing can be lost 031113
andru235 well, they got away with it.

those who haven't put the 2 and 2 together about this are not ever gonna.

the scapegoats have been skinned, the culprits have been cloaked.

moussassi (captured in the same county i now reside in) will take the fall for something he neither planned, financed, or participated in. was he connected? probably. then again, bush sr. + reagan, who slept with osama through the eighties, are also connected.

we've now attacked to nations who we knew in advance had little to do with the attacks. the fact that the hijackers were mostly saudis was known before we attacked afghanistan. i knew, and so did most of the people in my circle of acquaintances at that time in my life.

the law student knew, the international business major knew, the linguist knew, the high school dropout knew, the meth addict knew, the religious zealot knew, the policeman-in-training knew. i knew.

(last week, there is the president shaking the saudi king's hand: oil deal struck! hooray!)

and as we did not support attacking afghanistan we (aforementioned group)protested. i have had many opportunities to practice on-site population estimation; the first protest drew at least 2,000 people but the paper said about 400. now please, i can tell the difference between 400 and 2,000. i am certain of this.

and as we did not support attacking iraq we protested. at one rally, a war-proponent started a fight (i saw it happen), and the next day, the paper said, "war protesters incite violence!"

ah, i see how it works.

remember the anthrax that showed up at daschle's door? genetic analysis showed that it came from fort derrick, USA. heard anything about that since? nope! one of the leading genetics researchers in connection with this "jumped out a window". did he, now!

perhaps he was a reincarnationist seeking a new genetic makeup to experience being.

in this modern age we dismiss all talk of conspiracy as 'paranoid'. in the 7000 years of 'development' prior to 1850, conspiracies were taken for granted. the carbonari were a secret society that plotted against the italian government...and won! (to say nothing of our little north american union!)

about a year ago some idiots decided that prairie island, on the MN stretch of the mississippi, would be a great place to store casks of depleted uranium. why there? "it's the most cost effective solution." FOOLISH CHILDREN; THE URANIUM-235 HAS A HALF-LIFE OF OVER SEVEN-HUNDRED MILLION YEARS. YOU CAN'T EVEN THINK CLEARLY ABOUT YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NET OVER THE NEXT CENTURY!

if we can't find 100 year solutions, WHY ARE WE SHILLY-SHALLYING WITH 700,000,000 DEATH TRAPS?


what is the greater terrorism here? are you under the spell of the illusionists?

i really had hoped that what is so obvious to many of us would have come to light by now. but they are forgetting. and many have polarized so far on the side of blind patriotism that god himself would be challenged to show them otherwise.

so keep watching TV and believe what the news tells you. stop your independent research and accept that someone else's unresearched stance has more validity. pretend to believe that profit really is that important. believe in false profits.

but don't complain to me when the shit hits the fan!

(...vzht...i know this is one of my more unfocused rants...but i think about this stuff every day...and i like the natural system that was developing here...vzht...)
ungreat six years and i think about it all the time. it comes up in random classes, and i was just miles away when it happened. just over the river. just far enough to be safe. i hate when people talk about or use it in propaganda, because thats the day that the safe feeling died for me, and nothing will instill it in me again. i died that day. it was the day i was scared to sleep, and i remember seeing roadkill in the road that morning on the way to school and thinking today was going to be a bad day. i remember the clouds of death hanging over the skyline for weeks. i remember watching the news with my eyes peeled open in disbelief and getting goosebumps. i remember over a year later watching the news play footage of the pentagon being hit and i looked at my mother and said "mommy they hit the pentagon on nine eleven?" and she looked at me like i was crazy and said yes and i had had no idea because i had stopped watching the news the day it happened because it made me cry, and people jumping out of windows were in my dreams. i still pray for the families who lost people, i pray for even the people who did those things because they were brainwashed. i pray that holly wood stops trying to make money off of a huge tragedy by making a new movie about it every year, because the commercials still make me get goosebumps and make me want to throw up. i pray that the war that was started using this as the cause ends peaceably. 070910
overcoming the 1st world staged by the usa government to provide an excuse to launch an oil war across the world. designed by the military to rob you off your civil_liberties.

oh they made everyone so scared! the fear still resonates on everyone's ears, seven years later. but do YOU know what you are afraid of? do you fear what YOU are supposed to fear?

no, you do not.

you fear foreign man of strange customs who have done nothing to you - except maybe burn your flag because your government has fucked over their land enough times. you fear not using you piece of shit car, and not eating your burgers and not buying stupid shit on tv and on the internet.


jane i say kill your television & just live your life, no fear, no anger, there is no way to change things any longer. 070911
. Friend, never surrender to your fears. 070911
birdmad 9/11 has become nothing more than a republican talking point used to invoke a pavlovian response.

It has been robbed of its significance as an event by people too craven to resist the urge to cheapen and exploit the circumstances of what happened on that day.
birdmad makeshift_patriot 070912
Kuffed and Cooped Nostradamus, he got many things right... just look at the end of the world then. 070912
skeptical nostradamus wrote a lot of vague poems that could be interpreted a lot of ways 070912
reflex nostradamus was probably high most of the time. nothing wrong with that. 070912
Kuffed and Cooped yeah, well a lot of people can be interpreted in different ways includeing some one called George Bush. At the same time, people might look at a painting in different ways, you take from it what you want, it is always to take the best stuff i would say. 070913
zeke when the bird speaks, listen. he always says something worth listening to.

still, 9-11 remains meaningful to me personally because i survived it. i saw people falling past my window, stood under the second plane as it went in, ran from it's explosion and it's debris and ran from the collapse of the south tower. it has impacted my life in ways that still effect me today.

but, the bird is right, rhetorically, that it is being misused by the wicked, the ideologues who run things today. it's flag waving at it's worst.
Mysterious Vanishing Plane Debris I will never believe the "official" story. I may not know just what really happened, but I do know it wasn't the story that was fed to the public. 080911
. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp 080911
() i_was_there (and the towers fell) 080911
tourist "Zietgiest" the Movie
Put Alot Of Things In Focus For Me.
It's A Good Thing That I Know That This
Is Not What It Appears To Be, But A Much More Elusive Truth That Underlies The Apparent Reality. If I Thought That This World Was As Substantial As Many Believe, I'd Be Down In The Bunker Oiling Up My Weapons.
As It Is I Am But A Tourist, Watching The Whole Wacky Show Unfold Beore My Eyes.
  makeshift_patriot 080911
birdmad a day whose repeated invocation is all that stands between Rudy 9iu1ian1 and the obscurity he so richly deserves 080911
amy i was in the Badlands of South Dakota, and i had fried bread for breakfast. it was a weird feeling, no matter how you slice it. 080911
different . snopes fails to satisfy. where'd the wings go? where are the engines? there's no way those items burned up, nor could they have disappeared into the interior without additional holes in the building. thanks, though. 080911
lunatic jesus How about Maddox?
same different . the maddox cartoon is amusing, but does not constitute an effective rebuttal. if elements of the government were involved, some people figuring out the truth would not matter as long as the majority accept the official story.

regardless, there is a shortage of plane debris from flights 93 and 77. the official story - that these planes crashed where they did - simply cannot be entirely true. steel incinerating temperatures were not sustained (let alone generated) in either instance. where is the debris? where is the debris? why can no one account for the lack of debris?
9/11 Agnostic You know what? People will believe what they want to believe. Always have, always will. Everyone thinks they are sooo objective. So rational. So in touch with the facts. No one wants to admit that they don't know, yet the fact is, none of us really do.

The 911 "truthers" don't quite get that they're probably never gonna get an admission that affirms their stance. Even if evidence surfaced provin' that 911 was the work of a terrorist network, the Truthers probably wouldn't believe it.

The 911 "debunkers" will never quite get that there are some legitimate inconsistencies in the standard account of that day's events (including the 911 Commission's report). Even if evidence surfaced provin' that 911 was an inside job, the Debunkers probably wouldn't accept it.

Neither side is likely to see any new evidence one way or the other.

Personally I can't believe how many people are settled in their opinion on the matter. Those that believe it was simply foreign terrorists seem remarkably naive, and a bit foolish. Those that believe it was an inside job seem remarkably cynical, and bit paranoid.

If it wasn't a tragedy it would be hilarious. Both sides are so sure of themselves, but from a skeptic's standpoint, there's simply no certainty to be had either way.

So... believe what you will. Doesn't matter, anyhow.
dos Because nobody feels the need to assuage the concerns of the cranks and conspiracy theorists?

Nevermind. OK, so the popular "theory" is that 77 never hit the Pentagon, that instead it was a cruise missile and blah blah blah. Right.

Now go here:

I want you to pay particular attention to the nature of the explosion in the images titled "third image" and "fourth image". What you see is NOT a high_explosive explosion, the type you would see when a missile detonates. What you see is a liquid fuel fireball.

Now, liquid fuel explosions are big, bright, and impressive looking, but they are NOT particularly destructive as far as explosions go. To do the damage to the building that can be seen after the smoke and flames clear, and in the absence of a high_explosive detonation, a SUBSTANTIAL mass had to make impact.

And, in fact, looking at the first and second images, "now you don't see it, now you do", something is definitely coming through the frame in the second image. And looking at the superimposition of a plane on that second image, it appears that what is coming though the frame is roughly plane sized and shaped. Some would call that a substantial mass.

And if the plane_sized plane_shaped thing happens to be, um, a plane, and that plane might explain the impact damage, and its fuel might explain the giant fuel fireball.

(insert rolling eyes here) But since it's "not" a "plane", and also not a missile, what do you suggest it is? Our imaginations? Oliver Stone's magic JFK bullet? Lighting a fart gone really, really wrong?

Quit being a puss. Man up and offer a plausible alternative.
same different . not convincing. the site debunk911myths site admits the plane is superimposed. why the need? and the fundamental question you eschew, as with most people whose arguments are so tenuous that they require statements like "man up" and "quit being a puss" for force, is, "where's the plane debris?" this question is especially pertinent in the case of flight 93.

disbelief of the official story puts no onus on me to provide an alternative.

don't say "man up" when it's thee who resorts to childish name-calling. if your arguments are sound, there should be no need to berate the other party whatsoever. besides, why are you so angry that people question this?
yoink still brings me to tears 110911
unhinged me too

stupid cave crumbled around what I originally wanted to say, but I serindipitously ran across an article this morning with my coffee that brought tears to my eyes

the words on the page were swimming in my tears

was that really ten years ago?

(z) (i have survived another 9.11. that makes 11. why is it still so visceral? why do i still smell it? why, when i close my eyes, do i still see the image of people falling past my window? why? there is surviving and then there are survivors, stranded on the shore of this wide river, forever. i will carry that day to my death.) 110912
(z) (and yet, i remain) 110912
perfectly_chaotic I heard a radio broadcast a few weeks ago which was speaking about teaching very young children about terrorism in schools. I felt really old when I realized that there is a generation which was not around before 9-11. Really, as silly as it sounds, it had never occured to me. They were talking about how children were confused and thinking their own country was the only place where terrorism has occured. When some spoke of meeting children from other countries which had been victims of terrorism they said they felt less alone.

In a weird way I can say I know a similar feeling to that which people must've felt 10 years after WWI, WWII, or many other numerous events. I remember learning about the world wars in school as a child and I am still paranoid of another one occuring today. I wonder if they will handle this in a manner where the result won't be another population of fearful adults.
epitome of incomprehensibility I look back on this and feel guilty at my experience.

That doesn't make sense. Feeling guilty about my reaction does, and I'll go with that.

Does that make sense? I'll try to explain: in light of people's told experiences - zeke on blather here, for instance - people who suffered through real trauma - it doesn't seem fair that I look back on this event with sort of a fond nostalgia, as if it were on the same level as forgetting the date of my tenth-grade science fair.

At the time, I was thirteen, at a school I didn't like, and it was refreshing to have something interesting happen. I went with the other high school students (there were only twelve of us) into the TV/library room downstairs, and we watched the news. The second tower collapsed while the reporter in front of it was unaware (he wasn't at the scene, but it was recording real-time behind him), and when the woman on the split screen told him, he turned around with a look of awkward shock. Most of us students laughed. I thought of TV reporters as glib, unflappable, and seeing one with a look of "Holy shit" was gratifying.

But later there were nightmares. On the globe, Montreal was about an inch from New York, and Dorval Airport sent airplanes roaring over my house many times a day. In my dreams one crashed into the gas station and incinerated it. Still, there were childish jokes: "What time is it?" was answered, deadpan, "Nine-eleven," and "In the aftermath of zero point eight one eight one" preceded mock announcements. I parodied Ode to Joy as the Nine-Eleven Symphony in the style of "Joy to the world, the school burned down..." (a staple in the anarchic world of the school bus).

Looking back on it, though, it was a tragedy however I look at it: even if U.S. complacency needed a comeuppance, killing random people, many innocent of violence, does what? ...Well, kills them, unfairly, and encourages the U.S. to strike back in Afghanistan and use 9/11 as an excuse to start a drawn-out war with Iraq, indirectly killing many more. It wasn't world_war_three, it didn't have the tragedy concentration of World_War_Two, with genocide and atomic bombings all in one, but still a big shitty deal in history.

And now there's a museum. I don't quite know what to think of that.
dafremen see also: eagles_and_wolves 140610
e_o_i Yes, a lot of indirect damage, and a lot of using 9/11 as an excuse. Though I think the new "Big Brother" surveillance trend - not only in the U.S. - also came about due to new technology. And I don't know whether fighting (corporate) snooping with more (individual) snooping is justifiable (group-forming seems somewhat natural in people, and we might start seeing more group vs. group instead of The Big Guy vs. The Little Guy), or whether it's better to retreat somewhat from the Internet - writes e_o_i via the Internet! - or whether, or whether... see, that raises a whole lot of other issues, and I don't have the savvy to give a good answer. But it's worth thinking about.

Anyway, I guess my last blather was more of a personal essay than a grand political pronouncement, though it got kind of pronouncey towards the end.
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